In the city of Beit Shemesh, tensions run high
Acts of segregation and violence toward women in Beit Shemesh turn the city into a focus for controversy • Police, called in to remove signs segregating streets, attacked by ultra-Orthodox rioters • Religious MKs speak out against this type of extremism.
ISRAEL HAYOM
The city of Beit Shemesh has recently become the eye of a storm of controversy over the exclusion of women from public spaces in Israel.
Cameras recently installed throughout the city as part of the Public Security Ministry’s “City Without Violence” program have documented incidents of gender segregation and violence toward women around the city, including spitting and shouting of insults, Israel Radio reported on Monday.
On Sunday, Police said that a Channel 2 TV news crew filming in the city on Sunday were surrounded by ultra-Orthodox men, who hurled stones at them and incited a mini-riot.
The news crew was following up on a report aired Friday about tensions in the city between Modern Orthodox residents and members of an extremist ultra-Orthodox Haredi sect. Friday’s story, which drew massive backlash from Israeli politicians and the public, featured an 8-year-old American immigrant girl who said she was afraid to walk to school in the morning because she is habitually assaulted by some of the town’s Haredim who feel she is not dressed modestly enough.
Ultra-Orthodox demonstrators on Sunday surrounded the Channel 2 news truck, hurled stones at it and stole camera equipment, which was later recovered by police. A photographer and sound technician were lightly injured but no one was arrested and neighborhood residents did not get involved in the struggle. Later Sunday, municipal officials, summoned by Beit Shemesh Mayor Moshe Abutbul, came to remove signs that designate several city sidewalks for sole use by men or women and urge the women to dress modeslty and not to linger outdoors. The officials were accompanied by police bodyguards and ultra-Orthodox rioters threw stones at both them and the police while calling them “Nazis.”
Abutbul decided to remove the signs following an emergency meeting called by Deputy Mayor Meir Blaesh, a supervisor of the “non-violent city” program. In the meeting, they also decided to place security cameras in areas in the city in which ultra-Orthodox men have harassed women in the past. Video documentation of these areas has been made possible by the program, which was started with the installation of 50 cameras, providing 24-hour-a-day surveillance over the next month and a half.
Meanwhile, Beit Shemesh police announced on Sunday that Moshe Eisenberg, a city resident who was caught by a Channel 2 photographer spitting on a woman, had been arrested. The Jerusalem Magistrates Court extended the suspect’s remand. Police believe that Eisenberg, who claims he spat to the side of the woman, rather than on her, was also involved in inciting other attacks against women and children on their way to public religious schools in Beit Shemesh. Judge Avital Chen ruled that Eisenberg would be held in custody until the investigation is complete and will not be allowed to enter Beit Shemesh for seven days following his release.
In Beit Shemesh, a number of events are being planned for later in the week to counter the recent events. On Tuesday, Shas MK Rabbi Chaim Amsellem is scheduled to participate in a public Hanukkah candle lighting ceremony with the 8-year old Naama, who was spat on. Tanya Rosenblit, the woman who last week refused to move to the back of a public bus when asked by an ultra-Orthodox man to do so, will also participate in the candle lighting. [link to story on tanya: http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=2279] This ceremony is intended to be part of a massive demonstration against the exclusion of women, which will take place in the courtyard of Naama’s elementary school.
Six religious Knesset members, including Zevulun Orlev (New National Religious Party), David Rotem (Yisrael Beitenu) and Otniel Schneller (Kadima), wrote a letter on Sunday appealing to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel. The MKs want the Chief Rabbinate Council to issue a special condemnation against the exclusion of women. MK Rabbi Amsellem initiated the letter as a loud and clear call that the ultra-Orthodox mens’ behavior, and any behavior like it that condemns, excludes or humiliates women, is forbidden.
The letter, also addressed to President Shimon Peres and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, said, “Violent extremists are trying to impose their views on all of Israeli society, in particular religious society, and are essentially committing a massive ‘blashphemy.’ The general public does not always know how to distinguish between most religious and ultra-Orthodox sane people and these lunatics on the fringe.”
Community rabbis in the Beit Shemesh Modern Orthodox community recently turned to the Tzohar organization for assistance in their struggle over the character of their city. Tzohar is a non-profit association of religious Zionist (Modern Orthodox) rabbis whose goal is to present Orthodox Judaism in a way that appeals to less observant Israeli Jews.
In their letter, the rabbis wrote, “We feel that the mayor and his associates are under extreme pressure from a handful of radical ultra-Orthodox people who do not allow for the fair treatment of the national religious community.”
Tzohar Chairman Rabbi David Stav said, “Our job now is to stay strong and hope that people will not run away.”
Defense Minister Ehud Barak responded to the series of incidents, saying, “These phenomena that we have seen over the past few days in Beit Shemesh, as well as other places in Israel, did not start yesterday from out of nowhere and they are grievous incidents.”
these few charedim should be locked up and the key should be thrown away. They need psychiatric help. Hitler and today’s neo-nazis gain in stature when pictures of these insane idiots are seen througthout the world. RABBI DR. BERNHARD ROSENBERG
By the way, my posting above just came to mind the moment I read of a “Levitical exemption”. This just seemed to me to be a clear example of where there is plainly a right way to behave (to protect the people of Israel from harm), and the religious have fenagled a pious-sounding way out of doing their duty. This is outside the realm of “Talmud study”, so I won’t even go there. It is in the realm of common sense.
Are all Haredim of the tribe of Levi? That’s a new one on me! Besides,
It seems that Moses and God forgot to check in with the poskim. I’m sure there’s a verbal dance available around that — AND, of course, around the fact that God prospered the hand of the Maccabees. As with so much religiosity, I smell self-interest here, not piety.
Except for the few Druzim they are all Jews. They may not be as pious as you might like but they are Jews. Jews who defend the Jewish Nation and the Land of Israel, that makes them defacto defenders of Torah and G-d. They have the greatest standing. This requires an expanded explanation tomorrow,
When I first asked one of my rabbis about the source of the exemption for yeshiva students, his immediate reaction was “Shevet
Levi”, referring to the Rambam at the end of Hilkot Shemita We-Yovel 13:12-13). In Halacha 12 the Rambam lists the ways in which the tribe
of Levi is different from the other tribes of Israel, including the fact that they do not make war. Then in Halacha 13 the Rambam adds that
anyone who wishes to devote himself to pursuit of the Divine Knowledge and not to engage in wordly affairs is likewise sanctified like the
Levites. The reasoning is that since Talmidei Hakhamim are likened to the Levites who are exempt from military service, it follows that they
too are exempt just like the Levites.
The problem I have with this Rambam is that it has no halachic source. R. Isaac Klein, in his English translation (“The Code of
Maimonides, Book Seven: The Book of Agriculture”, Yale University Press, New Haven, 1979), cites the Talmud Berakhot 32b and Avoda Zara
19b, but these are Aggadot and mention the blessings that come from piety and Torah study. Moreover, as R. Yosef Qafeh notes in his
commentary, the Rambam here is very general and talks about every one in the world (Kol Ba’ei `Olam), not just Talmidei Hakhamim or even Jews, and mentions Divine Knowledge rather than Torah study in particular. Therefore, it seems likely, as R. Zvi Yehuda Kook ZS”Land others have pointed out, that this halacha of the Rambam was itself intended as an Aggada, as a promise of blessings for the pious, not as a ruling that confers any privileges upon Talmidei Hakhamim.
The Torah (Deut. 20) devotes several sections to the waging of war. In particular, verses 5-8 specify who is exempt from military service.
This includes one who has planted a vineyard, built a house, betrothed a bride or is cowardly. However, the Torah does not tell us what kind
of war we are dealing with here.
The Mishna (Sota, Ch. 8 goes into greater detail on the exemptions and the types of war. The last Mishna in this chapter (Sota 44b), after
discussing what “afraid” means, finally specifies to which kind of war all the exemptions previously mentioned apply:
To what does this apply? To a Milhemet Reshut. But in a Milhemet Mitzva everybody goes out, even a groom from his chamber and a bride
from her canopy. Said Rabbi Yehuda: To what does this apply? To a Milhemet Mitzva. But in a Milhemet Hova everyone goes out, even a
groom from his chamber and a bride from her canopy.
In the Gemara, R. Yohanan explains that Hakhamim (the majority anonymous view) and R. Yehuda differ only over the names they give to the various
kinds of wars but not over who is exempt from what. Rava then says that everybody agrees that the war waged by Yehoshua waged to conquer the
Land of Canaan was a Milhemet Hova (obligatory war, even though Hakhamim used the name “Mitzva”), in which everybody goes out. Similarly, everyone agrees that the wars King David waged to enlarge his territory were Milhemet Reshut (permitted war), to which the exemptions apply.
According to the plain sense, it would very tentatively seem to me that all the searching operations against terrorists (before they
actually come to us), as well as most of the operations in Lebanon could fall into this category of Milhemet Reshut. Many scholars today
hold, however, that all (or nearly all) of our military operations are Milhemet Mitzva. [I agree with this opinion.]
This issue seems to be interrelated with the question of whether we have the commandment today to conquer Erez Yisrael, over which the
Rambam and the Ramban differed. The Rambam did not list it in his Sefer Ha-Mitzvot and the Ramban added it (see his Positive Commandment 4 in
his comments on the Rambam). In this connection R. Ovadia Yosef wrote as follows in a controversial article that appeared in Tehumin
(Vol. 10, 5749, p. 43):
I disagree of course with R. Ovadia Yosef, as do most poskim.
Yamit, let me be frank. You are gravely mistaken. There is no such Halacha, that is one of the curses that Adam received after the sin of the tree of knowledge.
The Rambam says that a person has 24 hours in a day, 8 for working, 8 for learning Torah, and 8 for the rest of his needs.
When you become stringent with the part of learning Torah then become stringent with the part of learning. Just remember that according to the Rambam you can’t work more than you learn. So stop complaining
With regards to Hareidim specifically:
Rambam: The book of Zeraim, hilchot Shemita Veyovel, last chapter, last two halchot,
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1007178/jewish/Chapter-13.htm
it reads as follows
That pretty much sums it up for Hareidim and your complaints.
With regards to the mitzvah of military service, you are definitely correct. Your application of the mitzvah to reality , I think, is a bit inaccurate. The IDF has no halchic standing. This is something that you must understand. For an army to be considered “Jewish” the people running it must be “Jewish” as well, if not how does is differ from the US army? There are more Jews in the US than here. What constitutes a “Jewish” army? If the leader of the IDF doesn’t believe in God, or equally, obligation to God, or doesn’t even keep Shabbat, which the Talmud clearly states that a Jew that doesn’t keep Shabbat even in public is considered to be as a gentile and has all of the halachic implications. Like I’ve said before, the IDF and our Torah do not share the same values. Please explain to me your view on this issue.
They do respect the law. The small groups that are extreme and have decided to become their own rabbis are less than 1% of the Hareidi communnity. The entire community can’t be blamed for the action of an insignificant minority which probably sums up to the hundreds. There is a saying in the Talmud:”?????? ?????? ??? ??? ????” when you have one coin in a jar it makes a lot of noise, when the jar is full it makes no noise. Think about that. When a person is strong he doesn’t have the need to flex muscles and display strength. When he feels weak he feels the need to prove his strength. These people have no proper instruction and feel weak and vulnerable, but again, they should not reflect the entire community, especially when all of the community leaders have denounced their actions publicly. You must not fall prey to the Israeli leftist media’s selective coverage.
Yes, objective, sorry 🙂
Comment was meant for the both of you.
You meant “objective”, of course; and Yamit didn’t write that stuff — I did.
Eitan,
When I lived in Australia in the 60s, we had three types of tavern: the public bar (“pub”), the saloon bar (beers one cent more per glass) and the “lounge” bar. Women were allowed only in the lounge bar, and then only when accompanied by a man. Closing time was 10 PM.
That was only 40 years ago, in a very Christian country. I agree with you, that it is not unreasonable for the Haredim to want separate accomodations for men and women in their neighborhoods; but they need to obey the law and treat fellow Israelis with respect. I first came across the video I linked to, by the way, on a hareidi website.
Eitan,
Let’s put away our agendas. We have enough trouble here, trying to get a grasp on what’s actually happening. “Extremist” is a favorite explosive word of our enemies. I even used it against Laura and Levinson, and I’m sorry for that. Some Haredi sects AND their members have been out of line. My hope is that Israel will have leaders who can deal firmly but fairly with the matter. Many Jews, like Yamit, are waiting for some sort of “messiah” to come along and set things straight. So, of course, are the Haredim of Beit Shemesh who have gone amok. Until he comes, and perhaps afterward as well, we have to deal with leaders who are, alas, human like us.
Shalom shalom 🙂
Laura,
With 12- and 13-year olds, I see your point.
Eitan says:
The only agenda I have is a Jewish one re: the Arabs. All Arabs out. Citizenship revoked and all government payouts to cease. That’s my agenda and is based solidly on the Ramban. Re: Haredim ‘In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken; for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.’ Bereishit 3:19(No able bodied male Jew should be a burden on his community). It’s a halacha.
The Mitzvah of Military Service the Torah also makes clear that serving to protect and defend the people of Israel is equated with loyalty to G-d. For example, when the tribes of Gad, Reuven and half of Menashe wanted to settle east of the Jordan river, Moshe rebukes them because he thinks they are trying to avoid military service:
Moshe answered the descendants of Gad and Reuven saying: shall your brothers go to war while you remain here? (Numbers 32:6).
He goes on to equate the possible avoidance of military service with turning against G-d. He accuses them of being no better than the spies who forced the people to wander for 40 years in the desert:
Now behold you have risen up in the place of your fathers, a brood of transgressors, to bring even more of God’s wrath upon Israel. If you turn away from Him, He will leave us in the wilderness and you will have destroyed this whole people (Numbers 32: 15)
Moshe is not satisfied until he extracts a promise from the tribes of Gad, Reuven and half of Menashe that they will serve in war against Israel’s enemies.
Unfortunately, many of our current scholars have remembered the lesson that Israel needs scholars, and have forgotten the lesson that failing to defend our nation is equal to the sin of the spies.
You don’t see that there is no difference between the Judaism practiced in Borough Park is no different than that of Bnei Brak? See:B’rakhot 33b; Nidda 16b; Megilla 25a
This is for you too yamit.
From your statement it is obvious that you have never been in touch with a decent Jewish rabbi, as they are the most respect worthy and distinguished people that exist, no exaggeration. You just can’t judge a book by it’s cover. Learn everything that they have to say and then be judgmental. But don’t read newspapers as they are just looking for scoops and headlines. Objectivity vs Subjectivity = Truth vs Lie. If you want truth be subjective.
Agreed. Yamit also has some sort of agenda against Hareidim. It’s a shame that people see arabs blowing up murdering raping and so on and they say “they are extremist, the rest are ok.” but when it comes to Hareidim, they are parasites extremists, should be cut off and worse. Ah well, maybe one day people will wake up, maybe not. Your choice.
You people have no idea of what is actually going on. The truth of the matter is that the entire Hareidi community (Rabbis and all) have come out against the Beit Shemesh group and have called them extremist and declared that they have no right to harrass people, even if they may be right. The truth behind the commotion in the Israeli media is that this topic was ignited be the leftists. That woman, Tania Rosenbleat is a big leftist and came specifically to provoke the entire bus which was a Hareidi bus route. She started singing and trying to provoke and then threatened to undress, the police were contacted and the bus driver threatened to kick her off the bus. Obviously, she recorded all this because she came prepared.
My opinion regarding this topic is very simple. Live and let live. Respect others and they will respect you in return. A bus route that goes from one Hareidi neighborhood to another has 99% Hareidi passengers 99% of the time. If we live in a democratic society then it’s the majority that should be taken into account. Hareidi men don’t like when women sit between them and the same for Hareidi women. It’s only logical that when you come to my house you respect my customs, and when I come to your’s I respect your customs. The Hareidi public suffers from racism and intolerance. Yes, that’s the truth. There should be a law stating that when riding on a Hareidi bus men and women have the right to be seated seperately. How come if I’m Hareidi and I come to Tel Aviv I can’t start tearing down immodest pictures from the streets. You can’t drive in Bnei Brak on Shabbat, right? Because the city is Hareidi and it offends them. Same thing with immodest advertising on the buses that pass through there. There is an agreement with the bus company “Dan” that all buses that pass through are to be supervised so that the advertising is not offensive. This is no different. No one cares whether they sit in the front or back of the bus. This is a petty provocation and should be condemned.
I have doubts that it is as horrible as what you are saying. I think you have your own agenda in smearing the religious community.
Yes and Jewish parents need to have control over their children.
I’m sorry to report that this stuff is nothing in comparison to what goes on in Beitar (so called) Elite, just 10 minutes south of Jerusalem. In Beitar the vaad HaEcluse is run by a secret society of rabbis, who don’t let their membership nor address be known and whose phone number does not have a listed address. These very same whip up the public from time to time to run amok in the streets, beat anyone who is not dressed black enough, to burn their homes, to throw acid in the faces of girls who are not covered up to their standards. For those who doubt any of this, the local police station in Beitar knows very well what goes on, their phone number is 580-6888, one might ask how true this is and if so, why they don’t act, especially against one rabbi Braverman who collects a salary of 30,000 shekels a month from the city, yet doesn’t even live in Beitar, never visits Beitar, similar for Rabbi Ordentlicht. Beitar move over, your reputation is being challenged by Bet Shemesh.
Rabbinical Authority: A Rational Approach to the Divinity of the Oral Tradition
[Exodus 31:15] SIX DAYS MAY WORK BE DONE; BUT IN THE SEVENTH IS THE SABBATH OF REST, HOLY TO THE LORD: WHOSOEVER DOETH ANY WORK IN THE SABBATH DAY, HE SHALL SURELY BE PUT TO DEATH.
Question: What exactly would constitute Sabbath desecration? Look in the Bible. It is not so clear. It must however have been clear to someone. The Almighty would NOT have given us commandments if HE did not expect us to keep them.
[In point of fact most of the Rabbinical injunctions are hinted at in the written Scriptures according to grammatical niceties and quirks of the Hebrew Language. A good portion of the Talmud is dedicated to clarifying the Law according to what the Biblical verses indicate.
Even if this was not so however we would still be obliged to do as the Rabbis say.]
In case of doubt the Israelites were commanded to go to the authorities and Sages that would exist in their time.
[Deuteronomy 17:8] IF THERE ARISE A MATTER TOO HARD FOR THEE IN JUDGMENT, BETWEEN BLOOD AND BLOOD, BETWEEN PLEA AND PLEA, AND BETWEEN STROKE AND STROKE, BEING MATTERS OF CONTROVERSY WITHIN THY GATES: THEN SHALT THOU ARISE, AND GET THEE UP INTO THE PLACE WHICH THE LORD THY GOD SHALL CHOOSE;
In case of doubt concerning any matter of the Law and its practical implications one had to make an effort (“ARISE”) and go to the recognized authority that existed.
[Deuteronomy 17:9] AND THOU SHALT COME UNTO THE PRIESTS THE LEVITES, AND UNTO THE JUDGE THAT SHALL BE IN THOSE DAYS, AND ENQUIRE; AND THEY SHALL SHEW THEE THE SENTENCE OF JUDGMENT:
The Priests, Levites, and/or simple Israelite Judge, whoever was in charge at the time, would make the decision usually after consultation with the others and in accordance with accepted tradition and well know laws of logical deduction applied to Biblical verses and derived from them. This was the foundation of what later became the Talmud.
[Deuteronomy 17:10] AND THOU SHALT DO ACCORDING TO THE SENTENCE, WHICH THEY OF THAT PLACE WHICH THE LORD SHALL CHOOSE SHALL SHEW THEE; AND THOU SHALT OBSERVE TO DO ACCORDING TO ALL THAT THEY INFORM THEE:
[Deuteronomy 17:11] ACCORDING TO THE SENTENCE OF THE LAW WHICH THEY SHALL TEACH THEE, AND ACCORDING TO THE JUDGMENT WHICH THEY SHALL TELL THEE, THOU SHALT DO: THOU SHALT NOT DECLINE FROM THE SENTENCE WHICH THEY SHALL SHEW THEE, TO THE RIGHT HAND, NOR TO THE LEFT.
Even if one went to the Sages to decide how a commandment should be carried out and did not agree with what the Sages said you still had to obey them. This was the commandment.
[Deuteronomy 17:12] AND THE MAN THAT WILL DO PRESUMPTUOUSLY, AND WILL NOT HEARKEN UNTO THE PRIEST THAT STANDETH TO MINISTER THERE BEFORE THE LORD THY GOD, OR UNTO THE JUDGE, EVEN THAT MAN SHALL DIE: AND THOU SHALT PUT AWAY THE EVIL FROM ISRAEL.
[Deuteronomy 17:13] AND ALL THE PEOPLE SHALL HEAR, AND FEAR, AND DO NO MORE PRESUMPTUOUSLY.
****I posted this same reply to you on another thread when you were critical of Judaism and our Rabbinical Tradition. You didn’t reply then and I don’t expect one from you now.
So? What do you think it was about in the NT? It was about prestige and power, not to mention a goodly income from money-changing and tithes. NT says that the Jews in J’s day were not of one mind and one accord, but of many stripes; and that those in power were the worst of the lot; and that J got turned over to the Romans because he pissed them off and was upsetting their apple cart. I don’t find that hard to believe at all, yet many a Jew has said it could never have happened that way; that the Pharisees (who are the spiritual ancestors of those Haredim in the video) would never do the vile things ascribed to them.
Not about religion? Hah! And Shas and the Haredi Party; they’re not about religion either? In a way, you’re right — it’s about self-interest; I’ll grant you that. But to those young men going about causing grief and terrorizing little girls, it’s about religion. Thank God, the whole Jewish nation is not like them. This is where rabbi-worship leads to. Torah I love; but we would probably all be well served if we lost our religious leaders — of every ilk, Christian, Atheist and Jewish. The word of God is good; people are something else!
It’s not so much about religion it’s about property. They create terror in order to drive the other non Haredi residents out buy the apts at depressed prices and move more of their cultists in. There is a severe housing shortage caused by BB and Obama and Jerusalem apts have become too expensive for them.
The only way to combat them is to cut them off totally from the National ATM. I say work or starve. The Israeli police are as afraid of them as they are the Arabs and they have political shields and backing which the Arabs don’t.
I would turn them loose against all the missionaries, then the Arabs. If properly directed they could be a force for good. 🙂
HERE’S A VIDEO of what’s happening in Beit Shemesh.
This sort of Jewish behavior makes the NT very, very believable.
Jewish girls abducted by Bedouin in the Negev last month, at least one raped
Police Admit Bedouin Abuse, Abduct Young Jewish Girls
Voice of Israel radio reports growing phenomenon in Negev, with seven cases last month alone. Victims are aged 11-18.
Young Jewish Girls ‘Marrying Arabs in Galilee’
Deputy Mayor of Afula: “Mothers come to me and cry that their 12 and 13 year olds have moved into Arab villages.”
By Arutz Sheva
Arabs must be transferred out of here.
These meshugana’s need to be restrained. Their behavior is deplorable. Real men don’t harass, terrify and abuse women and girls. They embarrass and harm the reputation of the Orthodox community and Israel as a whole. I’m sure Israel’s detractors are enjoying this story.
If you look upon an 8 year old girl in a sexual manner, then something is wrong with you.