The Beduoin are stealing our land with support from the EU

Tower and Stockade settlements – Version 2.0

By Ari Briggs, JPOST

In the middle of the Arab uprising of 1936, the Jewish settlement of Kfar Hittim in the Gallil was established, on 2000 dunam of land which the Jewish National Fund had purchased in 1905. David Ben Gurion, who was then the head of the Jewish Yishuv, gave his tacit approval, as long as it could be completed in one day, and the plan was carried out. The purpose of these settlements was to establish facts on the ground, to ensure that Jewish- owned land would be included in the future State of Israel. Those were tough days. Arab gangs were intent on trying to kill as many Jews as possible and wreaking havoc, in order to convince the British to limit Jewish immigration.

Kfar Hittim was the first of many “Tower & Stockade” settlements, so called because those were the first two building constructed on the land, in order to protect the brave pioneers who would dwell there. It was successfully defended on its first evening against Arab gangs.

Seventy-six years later, and with a sovereign government in place in Israel, one would think that there are various ministries whose job it is today to ensure that new towns are properly planned and established, and that it is the job of the IDF to defend them.

Well, not exactly. Today, in the Negev, one doesn’t have to travel very far off the beaten track to find new Bedouin settlements. But these settlements follow their own rules. Unlike the case of Kfar Hittim, no Bedouin National Fund purchased the land. The residents just took it. Whether it be privately owned Jewish land, as in the case of Al Zarnoog, or Bir El Daj, built on JNF lands or state lands, it really doesn’t matter to them.

The Bedouin understand that their communities must also have means of defense, but their “Tower & Stockade” is not physical. It’s virtual, but it works very effectively. Their protective “Stockade” consists of NGO’s such as the Negev Coexistence Forum (NCF), Adalah, ACRI and the like. Their “Tower” of today is the New Israel Fund (NIF), the EU and the UN, all of which are extremely well-funded and with the sole purpose of protecting the “rights” of the Bedouin to the lands on which they have built illegally.

One only has to visit the NCF website to see how effective their virtual defensive wall is:

    Entry of 18.05.12 – British Ambassador learns about NCF, visits Al Arakib. NCF Statement at UN Forum on Indigenous Issues.

    28.05.12 -UN Special Rapporteur on Indigenous Rights vows to pressure Israel on Arab-Bedouin rights violations.

    28.06.12 NCF participates in conference in Sweden

    15.07.12 –NCF activities in Umm-Mitnan, Al Arakib marks 2 years since first demolition

    21.07.12- NCF submits report to UN Human Rights Council

    28.07.12 -South African Ambassador visits Al Arakib.

For its part, Israel has developed generous programs to regularize Bedouin settlement in the Negev, through the Goldberg Commission, established in 2007, and the Prawer Committee, whose role is to implement the Commission’s recommendations. The Prawer plan calls for the legalizing of at least half of the illegal Bedouin settlements established in the Negev. For those 30,000 Bedouin whose settlements cannot be legalized, it offers generous gifts of land of up to 5 dunam per person, thus rewarding the Bedouin’s illegal behavior with private land in the land registry. But of course, this generous offer of the Israeli government to appease the illegal Bedouin settlers, costing billions of shekels to implement, is not enough for their NGO allies. They demand that every Bedouin land claim be legalized, or as Clinton Bailey, writing in Haaretz, put it, “Get ready for a Bedouin uprising”.

Adalah, NCF and other NGO’s ignore Israel’s democratic process and have taken their virtual “wall of defense” for illegal Bedouin settlements, to the international arena. And their campaign against Israel has borne fruit. Last month, the European Parliament passed a resolution condemning Israel’s policy toward the Bedouin communities living in “unrecognized settlements” in the Negev Desert.

The European Parliament had never before addressed the situation of the Bedouin citizens of Israel. It took Adalah, with the massive backing of their virtual “Tower”, the NIF, EU and the UN to get the job done “right”. The Director of Adalah’s Negev bureau, Dr. Thabet Abu Rass, commented on the decision, saying that “achieving recognition by the European Parliament that the Israeli government practices the same policies of displacement and dispossession against Palestinian citizens of Israel as it does against Palestinians living under occupation is a tremendous step forward.”

With full intention to interfere in the internal workings of Israel’s democratically elected government and judicial system, another clause of the European Parliament’s resolution stated: “The European Parliament calls for the protection of the Bedouin communities of the West Bank and in the Negev, and for their rights to be fully respected by the Israeli authorities, and condemns any violations (e.g. house demolitions, forced displacements, public service limitations); calls also, in this context, for the withdrawal of the Prawer Plan by the Israeli Government.”

All the usual suspects, NGOs which work to weaken the State of Israel in their so-called Post -Zionist world, such as Adalah, Rabbis for Human Rights, Bimkom and ACRI, back the Bedouin claims. They not only support the usurping of land, they take clear aim at pillars of our Zionist establishment such as the JNF, which they claim is a racist colonial entity that should be shut down.

In ACRI’s Bedouin Policy brief, their solution is simple. It states, “Today there are 45 Bedouin settlements in the Negev where anywhere from between 400 and 4,800 people reside. They meet all the objective planning criteria for recognition, including permanent population, population size, number of resident adults, and number of residential units.” Thus, not only do they call for the legalizing of all the Bedouin settlements with no other compromise possible, they speak of a “reasonable” number of 45 such illegal settlements.

Regavim, in its presentation to the Goldberg commission showed proof that in actual fact there are 2100 separate settlements covering over 800,000 dunams (200,000 acres). The Commission accepted Regavim’s empirical data and thus decided not to approve all the Bedouin and their supporter’s demands. As can be seen in the satellite imagery used by Regavim incorporating Geographical Information System (GIS) data, the yellow dots are the so called 45 unrecognized Bedouin settlements. What is striking is how these yellow dots are in many cases not representative of Bedouin settlement in the Negev signified by the red areas.

By their use of false and misleading maps and information, the defenders of the Bedouin land grab continue to garner support internationally. Their goal for the Bedouin is no less than the establishment of facts on the ground, as Pnini Badash- the mayor of Omer states, “to create an autonomous region” that will eventually be contiguous with the oft promised Palestinian state to be created only a few kilometers to the North.

The government cannot permit the financial and political power of the virtual tower and stockade to undermine the sovereignty of the State of Israel over its land. The European Parliament also needs to understand that it is not the Planning Authority for the State of Israel and that illegal building activity anywhere in the world should be condemned – not encouraged – in the strongest possible terms.

The writer works for Regavim, an independent professional research institute & policy planning think tank and can be contacted on ari@regavim.org. The mission of the Institute is to ensure the responsible, legal & environmentally friendly use of Israel’s national lands and the return of the rule of law to all areas and aspects of the land and its preservation.

September 6, 2012 | 42 Comments »

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42 Comments / 42 Comments

  1. @ yamit82:
    Indeed, in Jewish thought, the Messianic idea is not the most crucial. However, in Christian thought, the Messiah is paramount- a difficulty in light of its conspicuous absence from Jewish scripture.

    Please write these Jews and tell them they are wrong. You Yamit, are the Pope of Judaism, and the only one who knows the emmis.

    Seems they think Moshiach is central.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A53Mg92QZww&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdZgCPevlaY

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2LrSSSva8U

  2. @ CuriousAmerican:

    But you cannot claim that all of Transjordan was the ancient homeland of the Jewish people.

    We can claim it first then as the Torah of G-d of the Jews commands of us, conquer it and settle it.

    https://www.israpundit.org/archives/48860/comment-page-1#comment-203959

    It might be part of the covenant, but that is not to be fulfilled until the Moshiach returns.

    Says who? Name your Jewish source for your opinion. Show me a single reference to THE Messiah in the Jewish bible.

    The Hebrew word “HaMashiach” (lit. the Messiah) describing a future anointed person to come does not appear anywhere in the Bible. Since the Bible makes no explicit reference to the Messiah, it is unlikely that it could be considered the most important concept in the Bible. Indeed, in Jewish thought, the Messianic idea is not the most crucial. However, in Christian thought, the Messiah is paramount- a difficulty in light of its conspicuous absence from Jewish scripture.

  3. CuriousAmerican Said:

    – and you get vulgar.

    You are adept at masking your vulgarity in “logic”.
    CuriousAmerican Said:

    My point is not even to put anyone down.

    Putting some one down is obscene. Lets ignore what they do and just call them misguided instead. Lets spray cheap parfum on them and sell them to the Jews as martyrs.CuriousAmerican Said:

    STOP THE ONE SIDED SLANDER!

    unless its against the Jews.
    Is it slander to state that the Europeans slaughtered and swindled Jews repeatedly for 2000 years and that although they are not yet doing the killing themselves today they continue to swindle the Jews and give support to those who seek to remove the Jews from Israel? I am longing to see your rationalizations on this slander.

  4. CuriousAmerican Said:

    But no one is innocent.

    Perhaps you are right, perhaps it never happened, what was I thinking? your logic is impeccable, and it is this I wanted the Jews here to see. You have found a way to rationalize to equality the obscene culturally congenital behavior of the Europeans without blinking an eye. The chronic serial killing and swindling of the Jews, REPEATEDLY, over 2000 years by the Europeans is not relevant because, as you have so apty demonstrated to all Jews present, “no one is innocent”. The fact that they continue their vile habits today is also no cause for condemnation. After all, have you not proven these to your satisfaction?

  5. @ CuriousAmerican:

    You do not like it when the shoe is on the other foot. Most Christians have never killed a Jew nor discriminated against Jews, but you love to label a whole collective; provided the collective is Goyische

    The shoe is not on the other foot not on my other foot.

    List for me how many Christians and non Jews were murdered by Jews? When? Where and by whom? List for me how many Christians and non Jews were beaten raped and maimed by Jews? When? Where and by whom?

    List for me how much money and property Jews stole from Christians? When? Where and by whom?

    List for me how many human and civil rights Jews denied Christians and gentiles? When? Where and by whom?

    My point was and is that there is not now or at any time in history where a moral ethical and material equivalence can be made re: Christian persecutions,Forced Conversions, pogroms, mob rape, theft and mass murder as well as expulsions of Jews by Christians. All Christians? Never said all. Even the Egyptian maids and servants died with their masters at the hand of the angel of death. Probably because they were not unhappy over the Jews plight. Just like the Poles suffering greatly under the Nazis helped them to round up and kill the Jews. Hatred of Jews superseded their hatred of their Nazi persecutors and nobody can say that the Jews persecuted the Poles.

    A Jewish midrash explains:

    Our rabbis tell us (Midrash Avchir): “‘And Israel saw the great hand of G-d’ – When the Almighty wished to drown the Egyptians, the Archangel of Egypt (Uza) said: ‘Sovereign of the Universe! You are called just and righteous… why do you wish to drown the Egyptians?’ At that moment Gabriel rose and took a brick and said: ‘Sovereign of the Universe! These who enslaved Your children such a terrible slavery as this, shall you have mercy on them?’ Immediately, the Almighty drowned them.”

    Passover – the holiday that decrees the death and destruction of wickedness and not coexistence with it.

    Remember this Psalm?
    “O daughter of Babylon that art to be destroyed; Happy shall he be that repayeth thee as thou hast done to us. Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the rock” (Psalm 137).

    I don’t know if the story about the pool of Mamila, was historically accurate,all we have are christian contradictory accounts but I hoped it was true. If it was true, it did not happen in a vacuum, Jews had been suffering under Christian rule for quite sometime. The desire for vengeance must have been overwhelming for Jews to spend top Shekel to buy christian slaves from the Persians in order to off them. So unfortunately the christian accounts were probably a gross exaggeration, and if so was told and disseminated by christian clergy to incite against the Jews.

    And that is why the Torah records for posterity the song of Moses and Israel as the Egyptians drowned in the Red Sea. Yes, collective punishment against the Egyptians, even the Egyptian maids and servants perished because they were happy with the oppression of the Jews.

    We read from Psalm 79 on Passover: “Pour forth Your wrath upon the nations that do not recognize You and upon the kingdoms that do not invoke Your name. For they have devoured Jacob and destroyed his habitation. Pour forth Your fury upon them and let Your burning wrath overtake them. Pursue them with anger and destroy them from beneath the heavens of the L-rd.”

    This a prayer for G-d to avenge the Jews and it’s not about vengeance against Martians.

    I never took to Jewish bosses either but we are not talking about good labor management relations, are we?

    You insult, abuse and slander Christians ad nauseum and never have I called you an ***, but I bring up a few cases – I could have brought up a whole lot more – and you get vulgar.

    Make your case and pls. leave out Marx and Torquemada they were not Jews. Lennon, Stalin and Mao were not Jews either.

    My point is not even to put anyone down. MY POINT IS TO STOP THE ONE SIDED SLANDER!

    Slander is stating an untruth about another. I have only spoken the truth and if anything I have said is untrue pls. advise and I will revise and apologize.

    No one is innocent. No one!

    Yeah right!! That is a christian theological belief and your justification for your man-god, but it is not a Jewish theological belief, so I do reject yours and all the baggage that comes with.
    That is my point.

    Point rejected out of hand.

    Your reaction demonstrates the weakness of your position.

    Weakness of my position? I say Christians for almost 1900 years have persecuted and murdered Jews in every country where Jews existed.

    You say Jews are just as bad or at least we have no justification for disliking christians, not trusting christians, and hating the Christian beliefs: (Christianity) as opposed to individual Christians. Some of my best friends are christians.
    Humans are equal. Equal to virtue and vice.

    As Benjamin D’israeli said: The Jews are like everyone else, only more so.

    Benjamin D’israeli was a convert to Christianity but he did say this with someone like you in mind!!!

    retort (while serving in the House of Commons) to a political rival named Daniel O’Connell. Attacked on the basis of his Jewish lineage, he countered, “”Yes, I am a Jew. And when the ancestors of the right honorable gentlemen were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon.” Game, set, match, Disrareli!

    Apparently, equality is not good enough for you.

    Equality? Of course, it’s better to be chosen than not. Chosen-ness means the greatest imaginable advantage in the most valuable sphere of all, in the transcendental realm. The Torah is explicit: Jews were chosen in order to raise us up (Exodus 20:17). In our prayers, we thank G-d for having chosen us from among all nations and exalting us above all towns. It’s great to be chosen by the biggest authority in the universe.

    You are acting like a Muslim.

    I certainly am not acting like a christian

    Ease up yamit. I am not your enemy; but neither will I tolerate your one-sided slanders, as if Christian alone were guilty.

    As a devout christian missionary and one who denigrates our beliefs to political correct platitudes along with moral and ethical relativism, placing the victim equal to the victimizer if not worse, makes you not only an enemy but a dangerous mortal enemy not only to me but to all Jews and Israel.

    Ignorance never settles a question.

    Benjamin Disraeli

  6. @ yamit82:
    You are a SOB. You compare a few Jews, many questionable jews (?)to a whole collective?

    You do not like it when the shoe is on the other foot. Most Christians have never killed a Jew nor discriminated against Jews, but you love to label a whole collective; provided the collective is Goyische

    Oh! but the Goyim call us names. I used to work for Jewish bosses. Name calling went both ways.

    You insult, abuse and slander Christians ad nauseum and never have I called you an ***, but I bring up a few cases – I could have brought up a whole lot more – and you get vulgar.

    My point is not even to put anyone down. MY POINT IS TO STOP THE ONE SIDED SLANDER!

    No one is innocent. No one!

    That is my point.

    Your reaction demonstrates the weakness of your position.

    Humans are equal. Equal to virtue and vice.

    As Benjamin D’israeli said: The Jews are like everyone else, only more so.

    Apparently, equality is not good enough for you.

    You are acting like a Muslim.

    Ease up yamit. I am not your enemy; but neither will I tolerate your one-sided slanders, as if Christian alone were guilty. And you know it. We have had this discussion before – about the pool of Mamila, remember? – and you admitted it.

  7. @ CuriousAmerican:


    For all we know most of europe should belong to the Jews. Perhaps we should hire a new accountant.

    The sense of entitlement is unbelievable. Where is Europe in the Abrahamic Covenant?

    It’s not in the covenant, but Jews like any other people and nation are allowed to expand our borders beyond the covenant borders from our enemies and in our national interest.

    “The Jews, however, are beyond all doubt the strongest, toughest, and purest race at present living in Europe; they know how to succeed even under the worst conditions (in fact better than under favorable ones) by means of virtues of some sort, which one would like nowadays to label as vices-owing above all to a resolute faith which does not need to be ashamed before “modern idea…

    It is certain that the Jew, if he desired-or if they were driven to it, as the antisemites seem to wish-could now have the ascendancy, nay, literally the supremacy, over Europe; that they are not working or planning for that end is equally sure… The resourcefulness of the modern Jews, both in mind and soul, is extraordinary…”

    – Friedrich Nietzsche

    “Wishing to make Speyer into a city, I thought to increase its honor a thousand fold by bringing in the Jews.”

    – Bishop Ruediger – Huozmann – 1084

    “So prominent was the Jewish role in the foreign commerce of Europe that those nations that received the Jews gained and the countries that excluded them lost in the volume of international trade.”

    – Will Durant

    No one is innocent my friend. I could bring up Jewish names who killed millions.

    Europe did NOT act rightly. But no one is innocent.

    You are a SOB. You compare a few Jews, many questionable jews (?)to a whole collective?

    Torquemada

    was not Jewish even if he had a whole passel of Jewish uncles? Even if he was; his main victims were conversos and Moors..The Jews as Jews were left pretty much alone. Isabella was a Christian religious fanatic who ruled her husband. These conversos without Jewish restrictions, Christian Spain placed on them were so successful they practically took over Spain. The Inquisition was formed mostly to root out those Jews from positions in government and commerce and steal their wealth for the Church and Crown. Spain and Portugal never recovered.

    Between the years 250 CE and 1948 CE – a period of 1,700 years – Jews have experienced more than eighty expulsions from various countries in Europe – an average of nearly one expulsion every twenty-one years. Jews were expelled from England, France, Austria, Germany, Lithuania, Spain, Portugal, Bohemia, Moravia and seventy-one other countries.

    Jewish persecution by Christian Europe: Lesser Known Highlights of Jewish International Relations In The Common Era

    (an Abbreviated sampling)

    I would be satisfied if the Muslims took over Europe and made them all Sword Muslims. Measure for Measure is not Just a Jewish ethic it’s also a Muslim ethic. Were it up to me I would not object to their (all Europeans) being nuked to Hell.

  8. @ CuriousAmerican:

    Look at those maps. I can provide others. Israel, ancient Israel, did not encompass all of Jordan.

    From the Jewish virtual Library

    Check out their source. (Source: Goodnews Christian Ministry, (c) 1991 to 2002) Vely vely authoratatively CHRISTIAN, CHRISTIAN 😛

    The redeemed Eretz Israel is not the political state of the Jews we see today. As the influence of the Torah extends, so will the boundaries of Eretz Israel expand accordingly till we attach all of the Lands promised to the Jewish people in the Tanach:

    “To your descendants I have given this land, from the Egyptian River (Nile) as far as the great river, the Euphrates.”
    Bereshit (Genesis) 15:18). The boundaries of the future described in the Book of Ezekiel, chapters 47-48. The details of the future map of the Land of Israel are mentioned only cryptically in the Tanach and various Talmudic sources.

    Map 1

    Map 3

  9. @ CuriousAmerican:

    Look at those maps. I can provide others. Israel, ancient Israel, did not encompass all of Jordan.

    From the Jewish virtual Library

    Check out their source. (Source: Goodnews Christian Ministry, (c) 1991 to 2002) Vely vely authoratatively CHRISTIAN, CHRISTIAN 😛

    The redeemed Eretz Israel is not the political state of the Jews we see today. As the influence of the Torah extends, so will the boundaries of Eretz Israel expand accordingly till we attach all of the Lands promised to the Jewish people in the Tanach:

    “To your descendants I have given this land, from the Egyptian River (Nile) as far as the great river, the Euphrates.”
    Bereshit (Genesis) 15:18). The boundaries of the future described in the Book of Ezekiel, chapters 47-48. The details of the future map of the Land of Israel are mentioned only cryptically in the Tanach and various Talmudic sources.

    Map 1

    Map 2

    Map 3

  10. @ Bernard Ross:

    For all we know most of europe should belong to the Jews. Perhaps we should hire a new accountant.

    The sense of entitlement is unbelievable. Where is Europe in the Abrahamic Covenant?

    No crocodile tears here for all those serial killers and swindlers, every day I see them still at there old habits, which refreshes my memory. The truth paints europe as an old whore whose stink cannot be masked by cheap french parfum.

    No one is innocent my friend. I could bring up Jewish names who killed millions.

    Europe did NOT act rightly. But no one is innocent.

  11. @ Bernard Ross:

    The nazis lie about the Jews but my accusations are not lies but rather truth evidenced by fact, I repeat”..for 2000 years the Europeans have operated as chronic,culturally congenital, serial killers and swindlers”. At this time they continue their tradition and habits by continuing to swindle the Jews by suggesting this repetitive partition of remaining crumbs, after each swindle, and by supporting the overt Jew killers in their quest to remove the Jews from Israel. This is not rhetoric it is truth, and to compare my truthful statements to the Nazi lies is obscene. Truth can be confusing to some.

    Again your answer mirrors the Nazi answer.

    They would point out Jewish criminals, swindlers, mass murders – yes even those. A few years ago I used to get furious at these Nazis. I still get mad at the Web Nazis; and yes, they they are overall wrong; but some of their facts, as ugly as they are, hold up.

    If you bring up Himmler, they will bring up Lazar Kaganovich

    If you bring up how the Poles mistreated the Jews, they will bring up that the Jews assisted the Muslims in the Muslim conquest of Christian Spain – yes they did. They garrisoned the Cities for the Muslims.

    This becomes a dance of death.

    Everyone is guilty of great ugliness. And you cannot say these Jews were not frum Jews and do not count.

    A lot of the Christians you bring up were not frum Christians.

    If you bring up the Inquisition, Tomas Torquemada was Jewish; and he was worse than the Christian Inquisitors.

    Isabella of Spain was willing to let the Jews stay in Spain when the Jews offerred to make a paryment to pay off Spain’s debts. Tomas Torquemada (who was Jewish) told Isabella, “How much gold did Judas Iscariot get?”

    It was the Jewish Torquemada who showed no mercy; not the Gentile Isabella who was willing to cut a deal. Isabella may have been corrupt, but Torquemada (who was Jewish) was the real butcher. In fact, he may have been halachally Jewish.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom%C3%A1s_de_Torquemada#Jewish_Ancestry

    Torquemada appears to have had Jewish ancestry: the contemporary historian Hernando del Pulgar (himself a converso) recorded that Torquemada’s uncle, Juan de Torquemada, had an ancestor Alvar Fernández de Torquemada married to a first-generation Jewish conversa:

    “sus abuelos fueron de linage de los convertidos a nuestra santa fe católica” (translates as “his grandparents were amongst those converted to our Holy Catholic Faith”).

    According to biographer Thomas Hope’s book, Torquemada, too, Torquemada’s grandmother was a conversa.

    So ease up. No one is blameless.

  12. CuriousAmerican Said:

    but forget about any more Holocaust reparations if you get ruthless. The next time a Jew sues over lost property in Eastern Europe, the cry will be … what about the Arab’s lost property. Now, maybe you do not care what the world thinks… but when Holocaust reparations stop, you will.

    I think my grandfather didn’t even get 10% of what the germans stole from him. Perhaps one day the jews will get strong and seize the value of what the thieves all stole. As we have observed: might makes right, it certainly has always been that way towards the Jews. For all we know most of europe should belong to the Jews. Perhaps we should hire a new accountant. No crocodile tears here for all those serial killers and swindlers, every day I see them still at there old habits, which refreshes my memory. The truth paints europe as an old whore whose stink cannot be masked by cheap french parfum.

  13. @ Ben Ze’ev:
    You’re just talking crap for the sake of irritating. The trans-Jordan area was a long-time, on-of part of wars between the Kingdom of Judah and Nabatea, and to go back to biblical times, which you seem to want to do, was settled by Dan and Menashe of the 12 tribes.

    http://www.blueletterbible.org/images/maps/Otest/boundaries.gif

    From the Jewish virtual Library
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/tribemap.html

    Look at those maps. I can provide others. Israel, ancient Israel, did not encompass all of Jordan.

  14. @ Ben Ze’ev:

    Amman while not large had started to build up after 1878.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amman#History

    The tide changed when the Ottoman Sultan decided to build the Hejaz railway, linking Damascus and Medina, facilitating both the annual hajj pilgrimage and permanent trade, putting Amman, a major station, back on the commercial map.

    It was NOT great, but it was there. It was not empty.

    I have found that some times Zionists claim a land is empty, when in reality it was unorganized.

    It was not empty.

    This was a map for the ancient tribes of Israel

    http://www.blueletterbible.org/images/maps/Otest/boundaries.gif

    Jordan extends way beyond that map.

    The map does not even include the Negev.

    Another map from the Jewish virtual library http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/tribemap.html

    You might claim British pefidy; but the British were just as duplicitous to the Arabs, which is why the Arabs are upset.

    But you cannot claim that all of Transjordan was the ancient homeland of the Jewish people.

    It might be part of the covenant, but that is not to be fulfilled until the Moshiach returns.

  15. I could be wrong, but I’ve always understood that the Government of Lebanon has been in a continual state of war with Israel since 1948. Since there has been no peace treaty, the fact that they haven’t actively particiated by sending troops in the succeeding wars is not the point. I’m sure I’ve seen reports where they have refused to engage in a treaty, and have reiterated that the state of war exists. Because they are small and ineffective, nobody pays attention.

  16. @ CuriousAmerican:
    t

    They don’t really need a rail to Eilat, which, presently seems to be a more or less isolated city, there purely because it’s the port which opens up southern Africa, the Indian sub-continent and points east. There are excellent roads o Eilat. A rail system might prove as much of a vulnerability to terrorist gangs, as the natural gas pipe from Egypt, and, further back, the Turkish single track rail line to Aquaba, often damaged by Lawrence’s Arab bandits.

  17. @ CuriousAmerican:

    There were practicaly NO Arabs in Jordan. Read Christopher Sykes’ Crossroads to Israel” (Yes, the son of THAT Sykes) who says that it was then a desolate and empty area called, for the sake of administration, “Moab” and was run by a British police officer with 3 British subordinates and a handful of locals totalling, I seem to recall 9 persons……. I’ve read similar infromation in other books on the subject. I think your existence on this site is purely that of an irritant, a kind of Ha’Aretz purgative substance, or at least the result of such.

  18. @ CuriousAmerican:

    You’re just talking crap for the sake of irritating. The trans-Jordan area was a long-time, on-of part of wars between the Kingdom of Judah and Nabatea, and to go back to biblical times, which you seem to want to do, was settled by Dan and Menashe of the 12 tribes.

  19. @ Bernard Ross:
    It would be interesting to see how the scenario would actually playout, certainly it should be investigated by the GOI as an important option. imagine their shock when faced with the pals after the IDF withdrew. LOL! Their problem now, and all their noise will fall on deaf ears as they will have real problems to deal with. What the mind can conceive can be achieved!

    Israel can do what it wants; but forget about any more Holocaust reparations if you get ruthless. The next time a Jew sues over lost property in Eastern Europe, the cry will be … what about the Arab’s lost property.

    Now, maybe you do not care what the world thinks… but when Holocaust reparations stop, you will.

    This may not be morally equivalent, but that is how the world will spin it.

  20. CuriousAmerican Said:

    Politics is the art of the possible, not the moral.

    These are the words with which you admonished me and I have taken your advice to heart. Therefore I wonder about all this talk of aggressor, victim, etc. It is all irrelevant to my solution of transferring the arabs to buffer zones across the borders of 3 hostile entities because it can easily be accomplished without any agreements with any of the nations involved. The logistics and military aspects are well within practicality. Apparently you are now raising “moral” considerations. I prefer to refer those considerations to the UN or the Hague who did nothing to redress the expelling of Jews from arab lands or any attacks on Israel from Lebanon or gaza. To syria, lebanon or gaza I would say “sue me”! Syria is just good timing as they are currently in problems anyway. Another opportunity in timing is the pal breach of oslo. When trouble arises with the Egyptian and Jordanian treaties and threats begin again then those also become possible destinations. It would be interesting to see how the scenario would actually playout, certainly it should be investigated by the GOI as an important option. imagine their shock when faced with the pals after the IDF withdrew. LOL! Their problem now, and all their noise will fall on deaf ears as they will have real problems to deal with. What the mind can conceive can be achieved!

  21. @ Bernard Ross:
    Did you notice Israels bombing of their nuclear site this year?

    Israel has a nuclear site, Dimona. Is that aggressive? Look, I am NOT condemning Israel’s attack on Syria, but it was NOT in response to Syrian aggression. It was preemptive but not a response to aggression.

    @ Curious American:

    Lebanon – the government of Lebanon – has not broken the armstice since 1949.

    @ Bernard Ross:
    Did you notice the war with lebanon this century? It is not relevant to Israel which group attacks fro m a territory.

    Yeah, it matters. Britain did not sue Holland for V2 Rocket attacks launched from Holland over which the Dutch government had NO control.

    Lebanon’s lack of control matters. It is NOT Lebanon’s fault. South Lebanon was occuppied. First by the PLO, then by Israel, then by Hezbollah. In each case, the Beirut government was not party to the matter. Again – so I am NOT misquoted – I am NOT condeming Israel’s occupation of South Lebanon, but it was something over which Lebanon had no control.

    In 1975, the Christians of Lebanon went to war the PLO, part of the reason was to stop the PLO’s attacks on Israel. The Christians did what Israel wanted. The Christians lost.

    The Israelis had to go in. The PLO was expelled, but then Israel stayed in South Lebanon which gave rise to Hezbollah.

    None of this is Beirut’s fault. NONE OF THIS IS AGGRESSION BY THE BEIRUT GOV’T.

    During the 2006 war, rather than going in and rooting out Hezbollah, instead Israel bombed Beirut and even Christian cities. The Christians hate Hezbollah. The Christians were rooting for Israel until you bombed them.

    Get your history straight. Lebanon stayed out of the 56, 67, and 73 wars. It barely joined the 48 war which the Maronite Christians opposed, but the Lebanese Muslims insisted on. Almost all Lebanese fighters in the 48 war were Muslims attached to Syrian units. The Maronite units were told not to cross the border. A deal had been worked out between Ben Gurion and the Maronites through DeGaulle.

    After the 48 war Lebanon got hammered by Palestinian refugees (who put the Palestinians in Lebanon?) and then by Hezbollah. None of this was desired by Beirut, and certainly not by Beirut when it was run by the Christians.

    You can’t blame Lebanon when Lebanon did try to stop the PLO in 1973 and 1975 – THE CHRISTIANS LOST!

    The Beirut government even tried to stop Hezbollah in 2008, and Hezbollah nearly overthrew the government.

    When the Beirut government tried to take control of its own airport, Hezbollah sent out troops all over Beirut to start shooting.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MsVqyCo_ko

    Oh! Yeah! Hezbollah is in the government. Who can stop them? The Christians hate them.

    SO NO! Lebanon is a victim, NOT an aggressor.

  22. CuriousAmerican Said:

    Syria has not broken the armistice in 39 years, so it would be aggressive.

    Did you notice Israels bombing of their nuclear site this year?
    CuriousAmerican Said:

    Lebanon – the government of Lebanon – has not broken the armstice since 1949.

    Did you notice the war with lebanon this century? It is not relevant to Israel which group attacks fro m a territory.
    Do you remember this quote of yours?
    CuriousAmerican Said:

    Politics is the art of the possible, not the moral.

    I think my solution,if not immediately discounted, is very possible. In transferring I would begin with the entire political cadre of the PLO, fatah and my diplomatic excuse would be that they were allowed into Israel under Oslo and with Oslo breached they can no longer remain. Has anyone wondered why no Pal state has been declared in Gaza which operates as a defacto state?
    As a side note: regarding lebanese christians: it has been my view that Israel should have set up a christian state in south lebanon when the opportunity existed in the 80’s.

  23. @ steven l:
    Although life is very difficult in the Negev, if the Israelis do not develop it, others (Bedouins) will and that will be enough of an excuse for the whole world to claim apartheid!

    Israel has been remiss. They do not even have a rail to Eilat.

  24. Although life is very difficult in the Negev, if the Israelis do not develop it, others (Bedouins) will and that will be enough of an excuse for the whole world to claim apartheid!

  25. @ Bernard Ross:
    I stated that this can be in Syria, Lebanon and Gaza and not Jordan or Egypt as there are currently “peace” agreements.

    Syria has not broken the armistice in 39 years, so it would be aggressive.

    Gaza is an option.

    Lebanon – the government of Lebanon – has not broken the armstice since 1949. Whatever violence came out of Lebanon came out of groups imposed on Lebanon by others.

    In 1975, the Maronites tried to evict the PLO and the country went into a Civil War. The Christians lost.

    Syria and Iran sent in Hezbollah to take up the vacuum left by the expulsion of the PLO.

    None of this was Beirut’s fault.

    So yes, it would be aggression.

  26. @ Bernard Ross:
    Britain issued the Balfour Declaration and then proceeded to violate it at every opportunity. apparently their own wordscannot be relied upon: I call this swindling. “Perfidious Albion” has ever since been in decline.

    My ancestors were Celts, so I have NO love of Perfidious Albion.

    And I agreed that England acted despicably. But the point you missed was the Jordan was NOT the historic homeland of the Jews. It might be part of the Covenant, but that part will not be fulfilled until the Moshiach returns.

  27. CuriousAmerican Said:

    Even during Biblical times, with the exception of East Mannasseh, what is now the Golan, Israel did not really extend East of the Jordan River.

    Britain issued the Balfour Declaration and then proceeded to violate it at every opportunity. apparently their own wordscannot be relied upon: I call this swindling. “Perfidious Albion” has ever since been in decline.

  28. CuriousAmerican Said:

    Britain’s cut off was despicable. But should Jews have flooded into the land, the Arab nations might have risen up. Hitler would have played to that. Britain cut off immigration because, with a war looming, they wanted no trouble with the Arabs.

    You should re read your words to see its real implications, if you are capable of such.
    CuriousAmerican Said:

    You sound like a mirror image of what Neo-Nazis say about Jews…Ease up your rhetoric.

    The nazis lie about the Jews but my accusations are not lies but rather truth evidenced by fact, I repeat”..for 2000 years the Europeans have operated as chronic,culturally congenital, serial killers and swindlers”. At this time they continue their tradition and habits by continuing to swindle the Jews by suggesting this repetitive partition of remaining crumbs, after each swindle, and by supporting the overt Jew killers in their quest to remove the Jews from Israel. This is not rhetoric it is truth, and to compare my truthful statements to the Nazi lies is obscene. Truth can be confusing to some.

  29. CuriousAmerican Said:

    Since Jordan and Egypt are not going to start a war with you, how is Israel going to attack without looking like the aggressor?

    Apparently you have problems focusing on simple sentences while attacking me as delusional. I clearly state that no agreements are necessary with countries who are hostile as Israel is capable of imposing its will by creating buffer zones across the border, trucking the transfers and then withdraw. I stated that this can be in Syria, Lebanon and Gaza and not Jordan or Egypt as there are currently “peace” agreements. I stated that with Jordan and Egypt there can be agreements for voluntary transfer based on financial incentives. This could be beneficial to the economies of those countries if the other arab nations finance voluntary immigration. However, it is not necessary, just more peaceful a solution.
    CuriousAmerican Said:

    without looking like the aggressor?

    LOL, when did looking like an agressor ever deter Gaza, Syria or Lebanon from hostilities, why should Israel care if it looks like an aggreesor? Have you noticed that aggression is not punished when there is a speedy withdrawal; my solution allows for a speedy withdrawal from Lebanon, Syria or Gaza. The world can then focus on the refugee problem as it has with all other populations other than the arabs or the Jews. The UN has financed the arab refugees for decades but not the jewishrefugees expelled from arab lands. NO crocodile tears here, good for Gander, chickens to roost!! As you like to say
    CuriousAmerican Said:

    Politics is the art of the possible, not the moral.

    I am glad that we can finally agree on something!

  30. @ Bernard Ross:

    Britannia is of special mention for their part in swindling the jews out of 77% of their homeland

    Even during Biblical times, with the exception of East Mannasseh, what is now the Golan, Israel did not really extend East of the Jordan River. David had some Eastern Kingdoms in tribute but not for long.

    Can you find a permanent ancient Davidic Jewish settlement out to the Eastern end of Jordan, near Iraq?

    Was it really your homeland? I know you might claim it as part of the Covenant, but Israel never really populated the Covenant. That will not happen until the Moshiach returns, after the Jewish people have admitted their guilt.

    Hosea 5:15 Then I will go back to my place until they admit their guilt. And they will seek my face; in their misery they will earnestly seek me.

    But you would have a hard time claiming Jordan as your historic homeland. Again, you might claim it as part of the Covenant, but not your historic homeland.

    If Britain had given you Jordan, can you just imagine the demographic problems you would have today? Even if all 6 Million made it to Palestine, the Arabs in Jordan would have posed a real demographic nightmare to be included in an expanded Israel. It would have taken Israel decades longer to get some semblance of organization and demographic balance.

    @ Bernard Ross:and causing the murder of the remnant of Jews escaping the holocaust

    .

    Britain’s cut off was despicable. But should Jews have flooded into the land, the Arab nations might have risen up. Hitler would have played to that. Britain cut off immigration because, with a war looming, they wanted no trouble with the Arabs.

    @ Bernard Ross:What price will these chronic,culturally congenital, serial killers and swindlers pay?

    You sound like a mirror image of what Neo-Nazis say about Jews. Almost word for word that read like it was written about Jews(by Nazis) and not about Gentiles (by Jews).

    Ease up your rhetoric.

  31. CuriousAmerican Said:

    So you think the Arabs are going to take the transfer

    Obviously I dont as stated herein

    My view is that they can only be resolved unilaterally by Israel.

    I jsut show that there is a peaceful solution if they want to take it. CuriousAmerican Said:

    Politics is the art of the possible, not the moral.

    Isn’t that the same as I am saying. It is definitely more possible to transfer the arabs by force than to expect any quid pro quo from arabs. Taking buffer zones in Gaza, lebanon or syria has already been demonstrated as being possible. Trucking the transfers to those buffer zones is doable as demonstrated by the “disengagement”. Withdrawal from the buffer zones after transfer will mean the refugees become the problems of those who continue hostilities. I think this is the quickest cheapest and best way and will give justice to the expelled Jews while expelling those who maintain JEW FREE muslim areas in the Jewish homeland.

  32. @ CuriousAmerican:
    The just solution would be for the arab nations to step forward and assume their responsibility for causing the refugee situation and to facilitate absorption and financing of refugees rather than the financing of terror. If not then force should be considered.

    Then force it will be. The Arabs are NOT going to help you.

    Since Jordan and Egypt are not going to start a war with you, how is Israel going to attack without looking like the aggressor?

  33. @ Bernard Ross:

    Agreements may be negotiated with Egypt and JOrdan on the basis of voluntary transfer and financing from the arabs.

    So you think the Arabs are going to take the transfer – lighten Israel’s load as it were – and pay for it too.

    Are you delusional?!

    Politics is the art of the possible, not the moral.

  34. @ CuriousAmerican:First, I was referring to the enemies being the “diplomats”, and foreign entities, who are violating Israeli law. Hwever, on the issue of trasfer I have made myself clear in prior posts, I repeat as follows”. Where? Any contiguous border with which Israel is in hostilities as no agreement is necessary with those countries; trucks to the border of Lebanon, Syria, or Gaza, creation of temporary buffer zones to receive the transfers, and then withdrawal to allow the UNRWA to continue its work outside of Israel. Agreements may be negotiated with Egypt , JOrdan and other arab nations, if possible, on the basis of voluntary transfer and financing from the arabs. I have previously stated that, in my view, the only way in which the expelling of Jews, from arab countries as a result of the wars with the arabs, should be resolved is if it is treated as the first segment of a population exchange which remains to be completed by the Arabs. This can be executed by force or voluntarily, as stated herein. Too much time has elapsed for any other proposal. to mitigate the damage of the ethnic cleansing of Jews, to be considered. All the warring parties which were part of these wars and cleansings are responsible for any costs. This could be voluntarily done and has been done in other precedents eg India/Pakistan or by force as also by apparently acceptable precedent of Kosovo and Jews from arab countries. If the world has accepted the expulsion of Jews, under the auspices of the GC, then it has set a precedent for the expulsion of the Arabs. It is obvious that no peaceful coexistence is possible with the west bank and gaza arabs. Furthermore, the so called peace impasse impedes the legal right of Jews to settle west of the JOrdan river as guaranteed by the UN charter and its relevant antecedents. What is important now is that the rights of Jews and the restoration of justice to the Jews should be paramount for Israel as the others have no interest in either. All other interests should be treated as non starters until these are resolved. My view is that they can only be resolved unilaterally by Israel. The just solution would be for the arab nations to step forward and assume their responsibility for causing the refugee situation and to facilitate absorption and financing of refugees rather than the financing of terror. If not then force should be considered.

  35. @ Bernard Ross:

    Israel is foolish for allowing their enemies entry. Anyone who ignores Israeli law should be expelled.

    Where would you expel them to? They were born in Israel; and Jordan and Egypt will not take them.

  36. There is little more obscene than to see those who cheated, swindled and slaughtered the Jews for 2000 years setting themselves to judge who is indigenous. The Europeans, originally as Romans, exiled the Jews from Israel, hijacked the Jewish bible as a foundation stone for their religion, proceeded to slaughter and swindle them for 2000 years and now reappear, incredulously, to aid the receivers of the property stolen from the original indigenous Jews. There appears to be no end to the infinite varieties of ways that arise from the imagination of the Europeans to rationalize the swindle and slaughter of the Jews. Britannia is of special mention for their part in swindling the jews out of 77% of their homeland and causing the murder of the remnant of Jews escaping the holocaust. What price will these chronic,culturally congenital, serial killers and swindlers pay? Will anyone martyr them and say it was undeserved and tragic? At this very moment they continue to engage in their obscene habits of libeling and swindling; only the killing still remains indirect, for the moment.

  37. Entry of 18.05.12 – British Ambassador learns about NCF, visits Al Arakib. NCF Statement at UN Forum on Indigenous Issues.

    What kind of crap is this? Jews are the indigenous people. I detest europe.

    SAUDIS BUY LAND IN ISRAEL

    Outrageous! Now why isn’t this outlawed? Can Jews buy land in saudi arabia? Non-Jewish foreigners should be barred from purchasing land in Israel.

  38. The old tower and stockade method.

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I suppose.

    The problem is: The modern world has no place for nomads.

    This is not acceptable anywhere else on the planet.

    Ever since the invention of the passport in the 19th century, nomadism has been dying out. Only in Israel is it defended.

    Are Indian tribes allowed to cross the US Border? Are Tibet wanderers allowed to cross the Chinese border into India?

    Regavim has a point but its use of ridiculous terms like "non-Jewish territorial contiguity" is utterly stupid.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMjPEpRpw4A (See 1:07) for non-Jewish territorial contiguity.

    Outside of flaming idiotic statements, Regavim as a good point.

    But "non-Jewish territorial contiquity" sounds more ridiculous than "Zionist entity".

    Both terms do not want to admit the existence of the other. The proper term is Palestinian facts-on-the-ground.

    Regavim should be more worrried about Saudi buy outs than Bedouins.

    SAUDIS BUY LAND IN ISRAEL
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF3udteOTrU&feature=player_embedded

    Once the Saudis buy land they can get a local idiot to declare it part of the Waqf; and then Israeli law will protect it as a religious site.