Why pass this resolution now or at all?

37 Comments / 37 Comments

1. Please stop the childish name calling. I will delete any post that indulges in it.

   Having said that the arguments and information you bring to our attention is of great value.

2. Peskin,

   am neither defending nor condemning the german reparations, i am merely stating the the existence of such funds which for many is adding to the image of Israel’s status as a “shnorrer nation”. Is that such a crime? for stating the obvious I am being branded an anti-semite which for me is tantamount to being beaten and not allowed to cry

   .Then why state it at all? It is today irrelevant except for those still alive and still destitute without any aid from you or the Germans and even not much help from the Jews here as well. You seem very concerned with Image, Let you and the rest of the World think what ever you all want to. WE do not exist for your or their pleasure. In Hebrew we have a saying Oragta veh Yorarashta ;You murdered and you profited from the murder. Even that you would include this reference at the very least shows your insensitivity and real hate of Israel or even worse self hate as a Jew. I really don’t care Hymie and I really do believe you do care but you got a lot of galut complexes and it is against those same complexes that are our most serious threat. There is no bigger critic of Israeli leaders and internal abnormalities past and present than me. People like you make me have to defend them and I really hate that.

   The United States is the largest debtor nation in the World, they are borrowing from the Chinese, the Saudis, Gulf States to pay for an artificial high standard of living all so they won’t have to raise taxes, which would prompt today a depression worse than 29. Why shouldn’t Israel ask for Euros instead of Dollars, as America made a commitment and the value of the Dollar has shrunk almost 30% from its peak highs.since over 80% must be spent in the States we have defacto 30% less funds to purchase what has been planned for and budgeted on a multi year arrangement. The Americans have the responsibility to protect the values of their paper. We could buy Russian at a fraction of the cost and believe me they would be happy to sell. Then we could really compete head on with big overpriced and in a lot of cases 2nd rate American hardware. The big problem is that most of the hardware is so complex and so expensive that we do not have ready compatible second sources. This is what really binds Israel to America. You just can’t switch from day to day conversion to other hardware,That could take many years. American aid of all kinds make up today less than 2% of our GDP. We could absorb the loss by many fiscal and monetary adjustments but we can’t replace what America might refuse then to even sell! This is a major fear here, although nobody talks about it openly.

   I personally think we should ignore the States and International community and make an announcement something along these lines: Re:Palis next Kassam rocket to be fired from Gaza we take out closet Arab Town after they have 36 hours to evacuate and make it into a large parking lot. If they continue we take out another town or village, I do not think it will progress further than one town or village before they cease. I would also announce to Our real and potential enemies that all of them are Nuke targeted and the first Missile or Rocket detected coming in our direction will be attacked with full force of our nuke arsenal as we will assume the worst even before impact. Since we have the arrow system deployed any aggressor could not know if he will succeed on hitting any target in Israel but a second strike would find their targets unhindered. Would they still try?who knows. with 400-600 warheads we can do a lot of damage to those who would wish to harm and or destroy us and that includes everybody. You guys value oil we have to power to deny the world oil which is the same as if we had all the oil in the world. The message should be don’t fuck with us !! I would rather have the world fear us and respect us because of that fear and stay alive than for the World to love us after we are dead and gone.

   T

   he theme is dependency. July 2006- Israel’s war against Hizbollah. Israel is now pitted against essentially a guerrila force. The most powerful military force in the middle east and argueably one of the best military machines anywhere vs a bunch of irregulars. Hizbollah has no tanks, sophisticated equipment, no battleships, no aircraft, no naval vessels. It has rockets with very limited range and questionable accuracy. And suddenly, out of nowhere Israel sends out an alarm to America- “we are running out of ammunition, equipment of all sorts, please airlift as soon as possible.” Amit you are a knower of everything and anything. What happened? I am not too bright and according to Ted a bit crazy. But i want to know, what happened?

   What happend is that Israel became a schizophrenic country after the Oslo Accords. The whole country came under the influence of secular neo -messianics, the liberal humanistic left forgot where they were located and thought they were located in Switzerland, and our enemies were akin to enlightened aborigines. The country and it leaders in spite of everything could not or would not absorb the realities of our geopolitical condition and refused to alter her strategic thinking!We became a country with a casualty avoidance. No politician wanted to risk soldiers lives civilians OK but not soldiers. Corruption in government, corruption vs. merit in the security services. Unwillingness to prepare for war, whose object was never victory but a means of bettering a negotiating position for the politicians. This mentality for an Army is demoralizing, A soldier does not want to risk his life for such anemic goals, only afterward to see his sacrifices squanders on the alter of leftist political correctness. Our Top Officers were political appointees, virtual yes men who all had their personal politician and in house press corp in their corners and ea played to the specific gallery he was trying to impress and influence for his upward mobility. Where once we had a professional Officer corps with a lot of Chutzpa, daring ( sometimes stupid) they were rightly or wrongly respected and even in some cases revered . Today their image in our materialistic nihilistic society is much tarnished.

   Being a citizens Army with only a professional core, we all have seen the uppe rmiddle class and connected welthy sons and daughter find ways of avoiding service altogether or at best servive 8-5 jobs i uniform. So the poor serve the religious zionists serve and some Kibbutzniks still serve with honor and national duty but the rich and lefts childrn are less and less seen in uniform and when they are they are kept out of harms way.

   This is only resons I can throw off the top of my head without much thought I can give you 500 pages if you are up to it.

   Worst reason of all is the Americanization of our culture and values. Whatever you may see wrong with America , is every bit as bad here ;total Mirror Image. The point here is we can’t afford it.

   OK maybe I was wrong in calling you antisemitic but your knowledge is much to parochial and limited to liberal ,leftist stereotypes. I do suggest you broaden your knowledge base though.

3. This represents the largest country to country transfer of funds in the history of the world

   I believe you forgot the ten trillion dollars taken in by the OPEC countries in oil revenue.

4. This represents the largest country to country transfer of funds in the history of the world.

   Perhaps you forgot about the ten trillion dollars that OPEC countries have taken in from oil revenue.

   Where do you think the money comes from to build all those mosques and madrassas around the world that prepare the minds of young Muslim men to engage in Jihad against Christians, Jews and all other non-Muslims? Where do you think the money comes from for all the weapons, pro-Arab “think tanks”, American lobbyists and public relations specialists, funding for terrorist groups and huge payouts to former Congressmen, Ambassadors and Presidents who help maintain and promote Saudi Arabia as a “staunch ally” and “moderate” force in the region?

   Do you think terrorism and anti-Americanism started because of Israeli “occupation?” No, until oil was discovered in Arabia, the Muslims had not the wealth nor the power to conduct jihad through the funding of terror groups, purchase of weapons, building of mosques and buying off of Western officials who might otherwise report to their governments about the true nature of the duplicitous Saudi kingdom. Now they have the money as well as the means of communications (with satellite tv, internet, etc) to spread their message of hate all around the world.

   I can hope for peace. But Israel has only one option if it is to survive: prepare to defend itself against the jihadists surrounding it while making sure it always retains a high degree of military superiority over its enemies. The least the rest of us can do learn about Islam, jihad, Muhammad, Koran and Hadith. Then we can understand that treaties with Islamic governments won’t be honored and a permanent state of war will exist between Islam and the rest of the world (not just Israel) so long as there is any land, in any corner of the globe, ruled by non-Muslims.

   If you don’t want to submit to the rule of Islam and the sharia and live as a dhimmi, the only choice left is to defend yourself. Once that reality is faced, what sense does it make to hold “peace talks” and give away land to enemies who can never be placated.

   With every give away of land, every effort made to settle the conflict and every generous “confidence-building measure” entered by the Israelis, the Muslim appetite demands more, more, more…while the masses believe that each concession Israel makes indicates that the Jews are weak and victory is near.

5. yamit baby. I think i touched a raw nerve by my last blog. my late mom who often liked to quote a saying from early her early years in a shtetle in galicia poland ” remember hymie when you tell the truth, you will be beaten and you will not even be allowed to cry out”. well now i know exactly what she meant.

   I am neither defending nor condemning the german reparations, i am merely stating the the existence of such funds which for many is adding to the image of Israel’s status as a “shnorrer nation”. Is that such a crime? for stating the obvious I am being branded an anti-semite which for me is tantamount to being beaten and not allowed to cry.

   The theme is dependency. July 2006- Israel’s war against Hizbollah. Israel is now pitted against essentially a guerrila force. The most powerful military force in the middle east and argueably one of the best military machines anywhere vs a bunch of irregulars. Hizbollah has no tanks, sophisticated equipment, no battleships, no aircraft, no naval vessels. It has rockets with very limited range and questionable accuracy. And suddenly, out of nowhere Israel sends out an alarm to America- “we are running out of ammunition, equipment of all sorts, please airlift as soon as possible.” Amit you are a knower of everything and anything. What happened? I am not too bright and according to Ted a bit crazy. But i want to know, what happened?

   Amit, understand this i am as much a lover of judiasm as you are, but i am also a lover of the truth. if that makes me a self hating jew well so be it.

6. peskin, you are one sick anti semite but | will respond. First The C.I.A report is dubious in its findings as they have always had an anti Israli agenda but for arguments sake I will accept them.
   The Germans got off cheap I will take the 6 million Jews they killed and robbed them of all material holding including property art and gold teeth. All Jews living under Eastern block Soviet domination including USSR got zilch, and Israel got Zilch. The Germans robbed them and their living descendants, Even the USA has several billion in Gold stolen from central banks belonging to Jews and refuse to return to its rightful owners. There are I believe several lawsuits stymied because of lack of cooperation fro the American Govt. American Insurance Companies refuse to pay out dormant policies because of proof of death and many survivors and or decendents have no idea that policies exist. I don’t think you want to pursue this line it can only embarrass you or maybe being such a shit it wouldn’t. I won’t go into American complicity in the Holocaust. Reperations? shit we got 5 cents on the dollar returned. I will add that many here were violently against receiving anything from the Germans even blowing up a meeting of our parliament with a bomb that injured many MKs including Golda and BenGurion. In retrospect I think we should have taken the money. It helped resettle a half million survivors. I myself a 4th and 5 th generation American lost no family in the Holocaust but I have never purchased knowingly a German product and never set foot on German soil and I have lived on and off in many European countries since my student days. I hold great disdain for most Europeans and really wish them no good fortune, especially having lived among them. My Father joined the American Army even with a congenital heart murmur fought through the battle of the Bulge and was with the first company under Patton to cross into Germany from France. he was with the first Unit to liberate Bergen Belsen He never in his life talked about it. I found out by mistake from an aunt.

   Here are some basic facts:

   1) Since 1985 the U.S. has provided $3 billion in grants annually to Israel. Until recently, this $3 billion consisted of $1.8 billion in military and $1.2 billion in economic aid.

   2) For FY2005, the U.S. provided $2.22 billion in military and $360 million in economic aid—a total of almost $2.6 billion.

   3) Admittedly, Israel also received $200 million to develop the Merkava tank, $130 million to develop the high energy laser anti-missile system, and other military projects. But the U.S. has itself benefited enormously from these grants,

   Summing up, since 1990, Israel has received approximately $45 billion in U.S. military and economic aid. What has the U.S. received in return?

   Some years ago Joseph Sisco, former Assistant Secretary of State, told Israeli author Shmuel Katz, “I want to assure you, Mr. Katz, that if we were not getting full value for our money, you would not get a cent from us.” American foreign policy-makers are pragmatists, not moralists. U.S. aid to Israel is animated by national self-interest—pious platitudes to the contrary notwithstanding. Israel is and has been America’s biggest strategic bargain.

   1) First of all, about 85% of the money Israel receives in military aid must be spent in the U.S., where it provides jobs for an estimated 50,000 American workingmen.

   2) Conversely, total exports from the 50 United States to Israel between 1991and 2005 was $95.4 billion—more than twice the $45 billion Israel received in U.S. aid during this period. The annual average of U.S. exports to Israel was $6.4 billion, more than twice the average American aid package. In 2005 the total exports to Israel from the 50 states was $18.5 billion—more than six times the U.S. military-economic aid package!

   By the way: the $2.6 billion Israel received from the U.S last year amounts to less than 2% of Israel’s Gross Domestic Product—currently more than $135 billion. Israel could easily dispense with this aid if massive tax evasion were curtailed along with the notorious corruption and inefficiency of Israel’s government. But this is only the tip of iceberg of U.S. dependence on Israel.

   3) According to Gen. George Keegan, a former chief of U.S. Air Force Intelligence, between 1974 and 1990, Israeli aid to America was worth between $50-80 billion in intelligence, research and development savings, Soviet weapons systems captured and transferred to the Pentagon, and testing Soviet military doctrines up to 1990, when the USSR collapsed. Senator Daniel Inouye recently put it this way: “The contribution made by Israeli intelligence to America is greater than that provided by all NATO countries combined.”

   Now a few points from a report of Yoram Ettinger, a consultant on U.S.-Israel relations.

   4) Every day, Israel relays to the U.S. lessons of battle and counter-terrorism, which reduce American losses in Iraq and Afghanistan, prevent attacks on U.S. soil, upgrade American weapons, and contribute to the U.S. economy. Innovative Israeli technologies boost U.S. industries.

   5) The vice president of the company that produces the F16 fighter jets told Ettinger that Israel is responsible for 600 improvements in the plane’s systems, modifications estimated to be worth billions of dollars, which spared dozens of research and development years.

   6) Without Israel, the U.S. would have to deploy tens of thousands of American troops in the eastern Mediterranean Basin, at a cost of billions of dollars a year.

   7) In 1981, Israel bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor, providing the U.S. with the option of engaging in conventional wars with Iraq in 1991 and 2003 and preventing a possible nuclear war and a terrible price of thousands killed.

   8) In 2005, Israel provided America with the world’s most extensive experience in homeland defense and warfare against suicide bombers and car bombs. American soldiers train in IDF facilities and Israeli-made drones fly above the Sunni Triangle in Iraq, as well as in Afghanistan, providing U.S. Marines with vital intelligence which saves many American lives.

   It’s ironic that Israel wouldn’t need U.S. military aid were it not for huge American arms sales to Saudi Arabia and Egypt. U.S. aid to Israel creates a demand for, and the purchase of, tens of billions of dollars worth of U.S. weaponry by these and other Arab states. U.S. grants to Israel—far from imposing a burden on the American tax-payer—actually enriches the American economy!

   American Congressmen and corporations know this. They have a vested interest in opposing any sanctions against Israel if its government were to take a more independent and vigorous stand against its enemies. I attribute Israel’s failure to do so primarily to the intellectual poverty and timidity of Israeli prime ministers, whose policy of self-restraint and territorial retreat encourages the enemy, prolongs the bloodshed, and endangers Israel’s existence.

   Israeli consulates in the U.S. should publish data showing that Israel’s contribution to the security and prosperity of the United States is no less than the United States’ contribution to the security and prosperity of Israel. It’s irresponsible for Israel’s ruling elites—Left and so-called Right—to obscure this information. By so doing they exaggerate Israel’s dependence on the U.S., diminish Jewish national pride, and make it easier for the U.S, to apply diplomatic pressure on Israel.

   We may have chutzpa Peskin but a self hating Jew has just hate ignorance and stupidity as his weapons easily parried with truth and facts. Relly C.I. A ? how leftist and pedestrian you are!

   By the way if we still had Sinai we would be a major exporter by now with a standard of living much higher than yours (Canada, you say?) Totally economical independent and Politically independent as well as one ties into the other .With out the Agreement with Egypt as I have said Egypt having no superpower Patron would not have been inany shape to wage war and it takes many years to build up an army of consequence , if they ever got one (a patron) Israel was their meal ticket and we wasted all our aces didn’t we?

7. Gabeten + Yamet

   Re:The benefits of Egyptian peace, I am sorry for a minor oversight: I forgot to mention some 112 billion dollars in direct U. S. financial assistance over the past 30 years. A trifling omission.
   Yamit, to truly assess the benefits of the treaty, which admittedly is flawed, you must ask yourself whether Israel is on balance better off with the treaty or withoutt. Most Israelis I know would not want to go back to a war footing. You might be the exception. You always are.

   Re: the resources in the Negev:There are rich deposits in phosphates, potash, bromine. Items used in the mfg of pesticides, fertilizer and some petrochemical products. Almost all oil is imported fronm such places as Mexico, Egypt and the Islamic republics around the Caspian sea.Very little of the resources found in the Negev are useful in defence.

   Since the theme is dependency,note the following:
   Direct American aid, non repayable over the last 30 years ………….112 bil
   Direct German reparations
   to Israel, non repayable
   (30 yrs)………………..33 bil
   Direct German reparations
   to individuals living in
   Israel (30) non repayable…30 bil

   Donations from Jews living
   in diaspara (30)…………22 bil

   Misc. ( 30) 3 bil

   Total…………………. 197 bil

   This represents the largest country to country transfer of funds in the history of the world,

   Note: In case that you think that Israel is attempting to wean itself off welfare, the Israeli foreign ministry requested that in view of the falling American dollar, all future American payments be made in Euros.

   I love Israeli chutzpah.

   All figures from C.I. A. factsheet site

8. 4infidels, good job, that about sums it up but you can add the immense Saudi cache of weapons to Egypt’s in time of war as well!

9. Those that see the peace treaty with Egypt as benefitting Israel must believe that if war broke out with Syria, Iran and the Palestinians, a piece of paper will keep Egypt from entering the war against Israel. There will be many considerations for Egypt, none of which make any difference whether Israel is formally at peace with Egypt.

   If Egypt thinks the Muslim side will win, it will enter the war so as not to be left out of collecting the spoils and to boost its credentials to lead the Arab world. Whoever rules Egypt will see his popularity rise and his hold on power solidify by being part of the forces that defeated Israel.

   If Egypt sees a likely standoff or Israeli victory, Egypt may remain on the sidelines in order not to suffer another defeat to the hated Zionists as well as to keep the aid and modern weapons systems flowing in from the United States.

   However, Egypt might still enter a regional war against Israel, even if its leaders didn’t think they could win, because public sentiment (full of anti-Jewish venom) may not allow Egypt to stay on the sidelines once jihad has been declared. An Egyptian dictator may feel he is better off losing many troops in battle with Israel than to have his rule overthrown put an outraged public.

   Now it is easy to understand what Egypt has gained from peace with Israel. It has received around $60 billion in aid and assembled a modern military arsenal full of American weapons as a result of US support since the treaty was signed. Egypt also gained back the Sinai so that when it wants to attack Israel, it can mass its troops right up against the pre-1967 borders, eliminating the strategic depth Israel won in the Six Day War. At the same time, Egypt has violated every obligation under the treaty, conveniently waiting of course, until Israel had returned all of the Sinai to Egypt.

   Though the Israeli government praises the role of Egypt as a mediator and an example to Israel’s willingness to make peace, the reality is that Egypt is firmly in the anti-Israel camp, aiding the terrorists smuggling weapons into Gaza, providing all the expected condemnations and denunciations of Israel actions and fomenting the worst anti-Semitism of any country in the Arab world through constant media incitement which insures the public with never view peace with Israel and a permanent and healthy exchange of diplomatic relations and friendship with its Jewish neighbor.

10. Reform Judaism is liberalism with holidays

11. I respectfully disagree that Mr. Diament’s “explanation” for the abstention should have satisfied you or anyone else. There is no place for an abstention on an existential issue by a group that purports to speak as a representative of a broad Orthodox Jewish constituency. It never is a sufficient excuse to live with something that is wrong because it is the “least bad” alternative. These are issues of principle and demand principled responses and action. The “2 state solution” in general should be a non-starter for both the US and Israeli perspective because all evidence (and it is of course abundant and consistent) is that an such entity would be nothing other than yet another terrorist and terrorism enabling state. More to the point here, the specific meaning in this context is a giving away of historically Jewish land under the notion that it more recently has been arab majority land – ignoring how it became so. It also very specifically means splitting Jerusalem and giving away not just biblical Jewish heartland; but areas of Jerusalem that were historically the center of Jewish life there too, taken by force and desecrated years ago. That is part and parcel of any “2 state solution” resolution and there is no place for an abstention on such a fundamentally wrong and existential issue. We lost all principled high ground by doing anything other than voting against and disassociating with the JCPA over this and it is the lack of principle in actions that has cost us so dearly.

    David Schoen

12. Yamit, thank you for answering Peskin. I’m too busy right now preparing for Prof. Eidelberg’s visit to the U.S. and I really don’t have the time to sit and re-educate someone who has been brainwashed by Liberal gibberish.

    There is no doubt that eventually the so-called “peace” with Egypt will fall apart. There is a world war brewing right now and countries are aligning themselves on one side or the other of the issue.

    Just as WWI was fought over energy: COAL, this one is over energy: OIL

    OPEC, certain Latin American countries with socialist ideologies are ganging up against the West!

    Chavez and cohorts together with Iran, Syria, etc. and his South American allies involved in narcotraffic: Bolivia, Ecuador etc. plus N. Korea, Russia, perhaps China (I don’t know which way the latter two countries will go) against Western nations.

    This is about much more than Israel.

    I am working with others to combat terrorism. I don’t have time to deal with one of the many self-hating Jews. They haven’t learned from the Holocaust experience in WWII.

    Israel has to do what it has to do, by itself, for the sake of its citizens—regardless of world opinion.

    Ben Gurion: “I don’t care what the Goyim say about the Jews! I care about What the Jews Do!” That’s where we are today, in a nutshell!
    Peskin is concerned with what they say about the Jews!

    The name of the game is survival!

    I have to go back to work! Bye for now. Thanks Chevre for helping me out on this one. I can’t take any more time with this person. There have to be thousands just like him out there. No matter what you say to him, he is blinded by his “klippot”. He needs to read more History, more Political Science before you can have an intelligent discussion with him without ad-hominems and apparently, someone on this board got it right: He’s been reading too much of the NYTimes and is mis-informed.

13. Peskin:Taking into account the new security measures for government ministers due to threats by Hizbullah to target Israeli ministers and military officials following the assassination of Hizbullah commander Imad Mugniyah, Defense Minister Ehud Barak’s trip to Singapore was kept under wraps until the last minute. Barak arrived in Singapore on Monday. According to ministry officials, the visit is aimed at strengthening ties between Israel and Singapore whose relations are considered fragile.

    Barak will visit the Singapore Air Show 2008 during his visit. Israel who is participating in the exhibition, has the second largest exhibition at the fair. Israeli exhibits include, the Green Pine Radar System, the LAHAT- Laser Homing Attack Missile, the BirdEye 400 an advanced affordable mini UAV system, which provides realtime imagery for military and law-enforcement squads. MARS², a Multi-Role Airborne System designed to operate as a fast-deployment, all-in-one task force. The EL/I-3001 multi-platform, multi-role Airborne Integrated Signal Intelligence System (AISIS). will be shown on a Gulfstream G-550 aircraft. The system is designed to cope with the challenges of modern dense non-communication (mostly radar) and communication network environments and to perform long-range, high-endurance SIGINT missions.

    Considered the fourth biggest exporter of weapons in the world, Israel made a total of $5.3 billion in exports for 2007. Accompanying Barak on his trip are his wife, military secretary and ministry director Pinhas Bochrim.

    Meanwhile in India the Israel Aerospace Industries signed a memorandum of understanding with Tata Industries Lt, to set up a joint defense technology company in India. The company plans to develop and produce missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles, radar systems as well as electronic warfare and homeland security systems. Over thrity countries participated in a four day defense fair in India called Def Expo which closed on Tuesday. The countries included US, Russia, Israel, Britain, France, Italy, Poland, South Africa, Sweden as well as official delegations sent from Mozambique, Ghana, Nigeria and Afghanistan.02/19/08

    Margot Dudkevitch

    WITHOUT AMERICAN CONSTRAINT ISRAEL COULD EXPORT 4 TIMES THAT AMT WITHIN 1-3 YEARS.

14. Peskin; Let me be the first to ans. and rebut #23. As you might see from my chosen user name for this blog I have Chosen Yamit 82 as I was one of the Jews who was ethnically cleansed by Begin , Sharon and Carter. May they all meet in life and deathe their just rewards Amen. That said in your commnet of #23 You make amny statements and assumptions almost none factual. You must like JW only read Liberal highly censoed rags like the NYT. anyway lets get at it :

    1.It has removed the most populated ( 80.3 mil ) and most important Arab State from those billigerent Nations confronting Israel. For Israel the real nightmare scenerio is having to wage a war on two fronts. Without Egypt in the picture, Syria is much less menacing.

    Sadat came to the peace table after A- he was losing badly his war of attrition which was on low burner by the time Begin came to Power. Dayan as FM for Begin (go figure? speaks much of that piece of shit turning his back on Labor that made him what he was)Labor called him traitor and I must agree.Dayan promised Sadat all of Sinai up to the last grain of sand. Dismantlement of permanent settlements withdrawal Of IDF and IAF bases !0 billion in Israeli made infrastructure. 2-3 hundred miles closer to all our ME enemies. We got in tangible assets A flag on our Embassy in Cairo Great trade off I would say?
    By the Time Sadat agreed to Dayan offer of non refusal Egypt was in deep shit, How ? He had kicked the Russians out and had no Superpower backer so he couldn’t play cold war warrior. Saudi Arabia had cut off his 2 billion aid stipend and What was left of his military was rusting from lack of spare parts and finacial inputs to thee Egyptian military. Israel could have stood in place forever and Egypt is their condition could do squat to change it. International Law and logic was on our side as it was the Egyptians who began the conflict and lost again. WHERE WAS THE PRINCIPLE TO THE VICTOR GO THE SPOILS?

    Besides setting future precedent of Land for peace which is the absolute wrong way to get peace. We got instead of a peaceful neighbor a semi belligerent one who behind the scenes does everything in it power to weaken Israel, where the Protocols of the elders of Zion made in Egypt TV mini series broke all viewing records, Mein Komf Best seller second only to the Koran. Armed to the Teeth with the Same Weapons and weapons systems America sells us. They have gotten 2 billion a year since Camp David. same as Us. They have the most advanced Chem. Weapons development and production facilities in the ME> Every training maneuver is directed against Israel and none other. they have no apparent enemies to warrant such expenditure in the mil. especially when their population is growing by 2 million a year and they cannot sustain it. Average yearly wage 500$ We get no Tourism from Egypt , they buy Nothing from us, Mubarak has never been to Israel except Rabin Funeral where he didn’t have much of a choice America told him to come. They Support Hamas same as Syria Supports Hizbola and as for being a moderating force with other Arabs the reverse is true. They will do almost anything to reverse their defeat of 73, meaning they want their army back in Sinai without restrictions . I wonder Why?

    What did we loose in the stupid trade off? First we lost total economic independence in giving up Oil and Gas fields. Potential not unlike Iran! I worked those fields as a rough neck on off shore rigs we found and exploited. We had all the Gas we could use for a hundred years. I worked there for 2 years and know a thing about what we lost. Now you tell me of any other country in the world that once they had large source of Black Gold in their hands would ever think of giving them up. We are the fools who had Idiots as leaders both right wing and left wing. Ghetto Jews and very short sighted Much Like Yourself! The Sinai had other things beyond energy, there Is magnesium, cobalt copper, zink. and a very deep Fresh water lake the size of lake Ontario. Tourism in the right hands could have made 700 miles of the most beautiful beaches in the world the biggest tourist Mecca (LOL) in the world. but our guys wanted a flag in Cairo. real smart, I think the listened to advice from people like yourself.With the Fall of the Soviet Union Syria has been a floundering Nothing Country that had to use proxy fighters as they couln’t get their rusty patched together tanks and planes to run and the Russians stopped giving out freebies.. The Suez Canal is less important to Israel than others as we have Eilat port and a rail link to the north a bit more expensive but with oil, gas, tourism and other minerals I didn’t mention uranium .,yea they got that too in Sinai, It would be worth it !Besides The Suez Canal is supposed to be an international waterway and its against International law to bar any country from using it.

    To Sum up in light of your statement vs. mine who is correct? You or me?

    With the internet there is no excuse to be ignorant of the fact today, unless you persist in living with delusions and lies!

15. As a response to how has the peace treaty with Egypt benefitted Israel,

    1.It has removed the most populated ( 80.3 mil ) and most important Arab State from those billigerent Nations confronting Israel. For Israel the real nightmare scenerio is having to wage a war on two fronts. Without Egypt in the picture, Syria is much less menacing.

    2. The removal of the war option of course means the saving of lives. it is not possible to overstate the importance of this factor to all sides in the dispute,

    3. Egypt has acted as an intermediary on numerous occasions in disputes between Israel and other actors with whom Israel has no official relations. Examples, the Saudis, Hamas, Iran, Hizbollah, Syria. Everyone benefits here.

    4. Peace with Egypt means Israel has unhampered access to the Suez Canal. Economically this is extremely important.

    Regarding Israel going it alone and doing as it wishes without regard to world opinion.
    Israel has an extremely powerful military establishment., developing and manufacturing its own equipment, armaments, aeroplanes etc. However Israel is a small country, with little resources. It has no domestic mining of strategic, metals, minerals, little oil and gas production. Such material is imported from third world countries in Asia and Africa These nations such as Turkey, Nigeria, the Congo, are either Moslem or have significant number of Moslems. In every case they are highly sympathetic to the Palestinian cause,This is an important factore constraining Israel in how they wage war against the Palestinians. So please forget the possibility of total destruction of Gaza. It just won’t happen.

    I often read such statements, as you are either with us (the Israelis) or the Palestinians. Much like the cowboy statement of Bush after 9/11.-” You are either with us or against us.” That was the first immature statement made by the president that turned off a lot of people. Let us not emulate a strategy that has spelled failure

16. You’re on the right trail. Something about this resolution stinks of sell-out and back-room deals. U.S. Jewry is now officially on record as opposing the right of Jews to live in Judea and Samaria and indifferent as to the fate of Jerusalem. Why did they bother to make such a statement? How does it advance the interests of American Jews? If logic plays any role, the organizations gained something from the State Department and/or the GOI in exchange for this perfidy. They should have just kept their mouths shut and focused instead on assimilation issues and protecting their buildings and cemetaries from vandalism. There is a quid for every quo. Follow the money. . .

17. re: advocacy for a 2 state solution:
    re : those who advocate massive invasion of Gaza:

    Pls note: Ehud Olmert and Tzipi Livni are already negotiating the entry of international troops into the Gaza region following an IDF operation to take it over and clear out the terrorists. Afterwards, they are planning to deploy international troops in Judea and Samaria as well, so that those forces will do there what they did in Kosovo.

    All previous Israeli governments, right-wing and left-wing, always avoided international intervention as if it were fire; except for this irresponsible government. Foreign military intervention was the dream of the bitter enemy Yasser Arafat (may the name of the evil ones rot). Need we waste words to say that what was good for him is very bad for Israel?

    Here is one more important reason why the IDF must not “march into Gaza”: under the Olmert government, that march would end with the introduction of foreign troops into the Land of Israel. As in Kosovo, those troops carry with them on their shoulders our tragedy – the Palestinian state

18. rote, I agree with you!
    Peskin

    There is a preconceived notion or stereotyped idea that all Jews are clever. But that is just prejudice. It is a falsehood that could be challenged by anyone reading some of these blogs.

    I agree with you as well especially yours!
    Ref. for OU Jews?

    Mishne Torah, Sefer Shoftim, The Laws of Kings and Their Wars, Chapter 5, Halakha 12.

    At all times, a person should dwell in Eretz Yisrael, even in a city whose population is primarily of worshippers of idols, rather than dwell in the Diaspora in a city whose population is primarily Jewish.

    In that all who leave [the land] for the Diaspora is as though he worships idols, as it is says: They have driven me out today from dwelling in the heritage of G-d, saying, ‘Go serve other gods.’ [Shmuel I 26:19] Similarly, [Ezekiel’s (13:9) prophecies of] retribution state: They shall not come to the Land of Israel.

    Just as it is forbidden to leave the Land for the Diaspora, so it is forbidden to leave Bavel for other lands, as it is written: They shall be brought to Bavel and there they shall be [until I take notice of them . . . and restore them to this place, i.e. the Land of Israel]. [Jeremiah 27:22]5

19. The OU: The OU attempted to remove the resolution’s text calling for American Jewish support for any negotiations by the Israeli government over the re-division of Jerusalem – but we were defeated by a vote of the delegates to the JCPA.

    Rote: How can the OU and JCPA call upon American support? American Jews were against everything from Reagan selling AWACs to Saudi, to his visit forgiving the SS, to the De-kulakization in Gaza under the current squatter in the White House. Nothing changed. The US will do as it pleases.

    The OU: The OU succeeded in inserting into the resolution text which calls upon the American Jewish community to support Israel’s insistence upon being recognized by the Palestinian Authority as a “Jewish state.”

    Rote: Who cares what West Bank and Gaza Arabs think on this issue? Gaining their permission gives credibility to their lies. The JCPA and OU may as well ask permission from the Emperor of San Francisco in a seance for all that it matters. Which Wesst Bank and Gaza Arab will the JCPA ask and how many stand in line for other demands?

    The OU: The OU succeeded in defeating a proposed amendment to the resolution text which would have stated that the American Jewish community views the establishment or expansion of Israeli settlements as an “impediment to peace.”

    Rote: An impediment to peace? Oh, they mean the JCPA wrote this resolution? I thought this was a discussion about what Jews resolved to do, not the Jewish Capos Pandering to Arabs.

20. In answer to Peskin:

    1. Definition of the world in terms of Political Science: The world is a sea of Anarchy!
    2. Organizations such as the League of Nations, UN etc. (some of which failed in their missions): Islands of Peace in a sea of Anarchy!
    3. Nation-states are supposed to act in their own self-interest—not to please the world and what it demands.
    4. Again with the Ad-Hominems of calling those who don’t agree with him names: “Right wing crazies???” I could turn that around! And, where is the proof that “most American Jews…”.
    5. It is rediculous to think that just because “the world thinks or wants…” Ultimately, Israel had to fight for every piece of land it ever got—as did most nations in the world. A nation-state has a right to defend its borders. Israel acquired some of the land by winning battles in a war of aggression—Israel was not the aggressor—the Arabs were! They attacked Israel and Israel succeeded in pushing them back and won ground. The rules of War and the rules of engagement dictate that: TO THE VICTOR GOES THE SPOILS! Israel then has the right to impose and not negotiate the peace, which is what the U.S. did when it won victory over the Nazis.

21. In all of this, everyone is ignoring an irrefutable fact: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PERMANENT AGREEMENT WITH ARABS! By their own admission, and according to Mohammed, it is only a HUDNA

    Substitute the word “Arabs” with “Muslims” and this is 100% accurate. Most so-called Middle East experts either don’t know about or ignore the implications of the Treaty of al-Hudabiyya, which is the example for all Muslim treaties. Shortly after signing Oslo, Arafat was caught telling a Muslim audience in South Africa that the agreement with Israel was only a hudna–a temporary truce made with infidels until the time when the Muslim side is stronger and can resume jihad by military means.

    See comment #3 above for more. I suggest everyone learn about the doctrines and history of Islam and well as the life of Muhammad and the importance of his example for Muslim behavior. Islam is a total belief system that governs all aspects of Muslim life, including government and politics.

    I would love to see Israel live in peace with its neighbors with regional cooperation and friendly diplomatic relations. I’d even be willing to see Israel give up some land to make that happen. However, after examining the doctrines and history of Islam, the actions of Israel’s neighbors and the anti-Semitic incitement prevalent throughout Arab-Muslim society, I can reach just one conclusion: that any surrender of land to the Palestinians will not bring peace. It will only make it harder for Israel to defend herself, allow the Palestinians greater ability to strengthen its arsenal for future attack and whet the jihadist Muslim appetite for more land and more victories.

    I’m not willing to risk more Jewish lives in order to pursue a fantasy of peace through a two-state “solution” that all logic dictates is a Jewish, and not Muslim, desire. And unlike the JCPA, I care more about Israel’s security than I do about passing resolutions that make me feel good about myself or convince others that I have noble intentions.

    HAVE YOU NOT HEARD ANOUT THE ISRAELI- EGYPTIAN PEACE AGREEMENT?

    HAVE YOU NOT HEARD ABOUT THE ISRAELI-JORDAN PEACE AGREEMENT?

    HAVE YOU NOT HEARD ABOUT THE ISRAELI-SYRIAN ARMISTICE AGREEMENT?

    Please tell us what Israel gained from these treaties that isn’t the result of their superior military strength. Agreement or not, there will only be relative quiet with some of Israel’s neighbors until they believe they can defeat Israel. Then war will resume.

22. Daniel Pipes, New York Sun

    November 21, 2006

    “Time To Recognize Failure Of Israel-Egypt Treaty”

    Ninety-two percent of respondents in a recent poll of one thousand Egyptians over 18 years of age called Israel an enemy state. In contrast, a meager 2% saw Israel as “a friend to Egypt.”

    These hostile sentiments express themselves in many ways, including a popular song titled “I Hate Israel,” venomously antisemitic political cartoons, bizarre conspiracy theories, and terrorist attacks against visiting Israelis. Egypt’s leading democracy movement, Kifaya, recently launched an initiative to collect a million signatures on a petition demanding the annulment of the March 1979 Egypt-Israel peace treaty.

    Also, the Egyptian government has permitted large quantities of weapons to be smuggled into Gaza to use against Israeli border towns. Yuval Steinitz, an Israeli legislator specializing in Egypt-Israel relations, estimates that fully 90% of PLO and Hamas explosives come from Egypt.

    Cairo may have no apparent enemies, but the impoverished Egyptian state sinks massive resources into a military build up. According to the Congressional Research Service, it purchased $6.5 billion worth of foreign weapons in the years 2001-04, more than any other state in the Middle East. In contrast, the Israeli government bought only $4.4 billion worth during that period and the Saudi one $3.8 billion.

    Egypt ranked as the third largest purchaser of arms in the entire developing world, following only population giants China and India. It has the tenth largest standing army in the world, well over twice the size of Israel’s.

    Egyptian president Anwar El-Sadat, U.S. president Jimmy Carter, and Israeli prime minister Menachem Begin in a good mood at the Egypt-Israel treaty signing ceremony, March 26, 1979.This long, ugly record of hostility exists despite a peace treaty with Israel, hailed at the time by both Egypt’s president Anwar El-Sadat and Israel’s prime minister Menachem Begin as a “historic turning point.” U.S. president Jimmy Carter hoped it would begin a new era when “violence no longer dominates the Middle East.” I too shared in this enthusiasm.

    With the benefit of retrospect, however, we see that the treaty did palpable harm in at least two ways. First, it opened the American arsenal and provided American funding to purchase the latest in weaponry. As a result, for the first time in the Arab-Israeli conflict, an Arab armed force may have reached parity with its Israeli counterpart.

    Second, it spurred anti-Zionism. I lived for nearly three years in Egypt in the 1970s, before Sadat’s dramatic trip to Jerusalem in late 1977, and I recall the relatively low interest in Israel at that time. Israel was plastered all over the news but it hardly figured in conversations. Egyptians seemed happy to delegate this issue to their government. Only after the treaty, which many Egyptians saw as a betrayal, did they themselves take direct interest. The result was the emergence of a more personal, intense, and bitter form of anti-Zionism.

    The same pattern was replicated in Jordan, where the 1994 treaty with Israel soured popular attitudes. To a lesser extent, the 1993 Palestinian accords and even the aborted 1983 Lebanon treaty prompted similar responses. In all four of these cases, diplomatic agreements prompted a surge in hostility toward Israel.

    Defenders of the “peace process” answer that, however hostile Egyptians’ attitudes and however large their arsenal, the treaty has held; Cairo has in fact not made war on Israel since 1979. However frigid the peace, peace it has been.

    To which I reply: if the mere absence of active warfare counts as peace, then peace has also prevailed between Syria and Israel for decades, despite their formal state of war. Damascus lacks a treaty with Jerusalem, but it also lacks modern American weaponry. Does an antique signature on a piece of paper offset Egypt’s Abrams tanks, F-16 fighter jets, and Apache attack helicopters?

    I think not. In retrospect, it becomes apparent that multiple fallacies and wishful predictions fueled Arab-Israeli diplomacy:

    * Once signed, agreements signed by unelected Arab leaders would convince the masses to give up their ambitions to eliminate Israel.

    * These agreements would be permanent, with no backsliding, much less duplicity.

    * Other Arab states would inevitably follow suit.

    * War can be concluded through negotiations rather than by one side giving up.

    The time has come to recognize the Egypt-Israel treaty usually portrayed as the glory and ornament of Arab-Israel diplomacy ­as the failure it has been, and to draw the appropriate lessons in order not to repeat its mistakes.

23. Regarding so-called Peace Agreements with Arabs, recently Egypt is defecting and turning against Israel again. If a war breaks out, we shall see how permanent these agreements are. It is my understanding that Israelis who have to go to Egypt for business don’t really have it so good. We are not really at peace.

    It is interesting how visceral Peskin’s attack is. There was no offer of backing anything up—instead this person resorted to an Ad-Hominem (a personal attack).

    I speak 7 languages and understand something about mentality. The fact that people have a different mentality than we do doesn’t imply that we consider them less. We are merely acknowledging that they don’t think the same way we do about certain issues and that we will make an error in judgement if we project ourselves onto them. All I was saying is that we play chess on different chessboards and that the rules of the game represent different things to different people. There is no implication of better or worse or racism here.

    Where is it written that all people have to be the same? The fact that people differ, that they have different mentalities, doesn’t imply that they are lesser.

    In fact, it is precisely because the Arabs have analyzed the way we think and they do understand our mentality, that they have been so successful in using our own freedoms against us. This has given them power. What I’m suggesting is that we must study and analyze their way of thinking, their way of life, so that we understand what different words and issues represent to them—to enable us to better judge what actions we need to take. To assume permanence in agreements when admittedly they have in their culture and their religion that for the sake of Allah, these can be broken—is folly.

    I believe Peskin has to do a lot of reading. May I suggest Korzybski’s work in General Semantics, Patai’s “The Arab Mind” for starters. Communications entail understanding each other—not projecting one’s own values onto someone else and then complaining if things don’t work out as we expected.

24. Why are you shocked? Don’t you realize that American Jews, in particular, function in a post-Jewish world where the ideal is the old Reform philosophy of acceptance by the gentiles?
    We were prophesied, ironically by the only non-Jewish prophet, to be a nation that dwells alone. However, it is the objective of Israeli politicians, the secular and American Jews that we become “normal” — a normal people functioning in the global society. One thing Jews have never learnt is that we ARE normal. We are the paradigm for the others. We have taught the world how to think, we have shared with them our morality (10 commandments), our god, the alphabet, medicine, technology; all the good stuff that exists in this world. We are the normal ones. We haven’t wreaked inquisitions on the world nor crusaded in rivers of blood. We don’t blow up pizzerias. We don’t tear down Hindu carvings. We don’t have leaders who prance round in circus costumes with golden hats and crimson robes. We are civilization.
    So why are our idiotic “leaders” so anxious to join the cacophony of calls for a “Palestinian” State? Is it to show how normal we are? Do we have to show, again, how we can bend over backwards until our spines snap? Or is it true that we are led by the world’s first generation of stupid Jews?

    The OU succeeded in inserting into the resolution text which calls upon the American Jewish community to support Israel’s insistence upon being recognized by the Palestinian Authority as a “Jewish state.”

    Who cares if the Palestinian Authority recognizes Israel as a “Jewish state”. Who in hell is the Palestinian Authority? Why in hell are we recognizing them? They have declared war on us and it is incumbent on us to defeat them just as God commanded us to destroy Amelek wherever we find him. Well, we found him. His name is Abass. It used to be Arafat. But just like always, we are too damned sophisticated to follow God’s orders and destroy our enemies. Destroy, not debate. God has laid out the scenario and I’m sure He’s watching to see if we blow it once again.
    ,\\

25. I plan to compose a comment to add whatever thoughts I can offer amid all these well – written comments but first may I provide this heart-felt piece by Naomi Ragan which I would like offer for there is an insight here I believe relevant to our commentators . She has titled it “The Answer”

    The Answer

    By Naomi Ragen

    I was sitting in the synagogue today with my grandchildren. It’s
    a small congregation which holds services in a school building.
    There were so many beautiful little kids. So many babies. So
    many pregnant women. And no one looked over thirty-five. And I
    thought: The Nazis lost. Here we are, young, thriving, growing,
    in our own country. And I thought: This should bring happiness
    to the heart of every good person in the world, knowing that the
    Jews are doing well. That this race. that was supposed to be
    wiped out, is thriving. All these beautiful children, and their
    parents. If I wasn’t a Jew, the story of the Jews, and the land
    of Israel, would fill my heart with joy.

    And yet, the opposite is true. People all over the world hate
    Israel, and the Jews. They insist that she allow her cities to
    be bombed, her children to be blown up: insist she, once again,
    give up any chance at securing a stable future for herself and
    her people by giving into the terrorist demands of people who
    want to wipe her off the map, and have said so publicly.

    There are those who believe Israel is bringing this hatred upon
    herself. They have many reasons and explanations and solutions
    on how to solve this, all of them, more or less, with an implicit
    acceptance of blame. “They hate you because…” And there
    follows a long list of crimes for which Jews are guilty and must
    atone. Among these people are many Jews, who themselves feel
    threatened in their cushy Diaspora-cocoons of privilege, who
    treat Israel like a sports team. Beer cans in hand, they follow
    the plays, and give armchair advice, as our sons risk their lives
    in the army to protect us; as our cities are destroyed by
    terrorist bombs.

    Some of these Jews are Israelis. They are the politicians and
    generals who led the country to a situation where her Southern
    border is now a war zone. They are the ones who made a porous
    sieve of weapons-smuggling tunnels in the South possible with
    their wrong-headed decisions, bulldozing communities which kept
    the rocket launchers from moving closer to her borders, and
    pulling soldiers out of the Philadelphi corridor.

    I would like to say this to the people who don’t love Israel, who
    don’t wish to see her children , the miraculous post -Holocaust
    generation of beautiful young people, flourish. You can sing any
    tune you like. You can find any excuse you want. But you are
    transparent. I see through you to your ugly heart which beats
    with hatred. I see your stupid, clogged brains filled with
    racist propaganda and filthy prejudice. You are the opposite of
    the people you hate and are trying to destroy. You are G-dless
    pieces of human drek and you will never win. You will never
    win.

    As for my own people who have joined hands with them, you have
    forgotten your past. You have abandoned your G-d. You have been
    bribed and corrupted into participating in your own demise by the
    hope of escaping the fate of your people. You will not escape.
    You are one with us whether you like it or not. However small
    in number, those of us who oppose you will win. Not because we
    are particularly smart, or courageous, or lucky. But because
    this is G-d’s will. Those who bless us will be blessed, and
    those who curse us will be cursed. And our children, and our
    country, the beautiful, young, vibrant, growing land of the Jews,
    the Land of Israel, will flourish. And you, all of you, who are
    against us, will not. I have no idea how this is going to come
    about. But save this. Give it to your grandchildren. Tell them
    to give it to their grandchildren, and when they read it, they
    will have the answer.

    Naomi

26. I agree with #8 especially this

    Who is dictating that unless Israel accepts a 2-State solution, it will have to be a binational state? Israel is a sovereign nation and the world cannot impose, outsiders cannot impose conditions, break it up or anything else anymore than the world can tell Saudi Arabia and Jordan that they have to cut themselves up and take in the Arabs they have sent us!

27. H Peskin

    Your problem is you think you are right and have no idea how wrong you are.

    According to Islam Muslims can abrogate any agreement with an kafir and time it suits them. Egypt constantly doesn’t live up to its commitments. Jordan does because it is in their interest.

28. gabeten who wrote this racist nonsense:

    In all of this, everyone is ignoring an irrefutable fact: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PERMANENT AGREEMENT WITH ARABS! By their own admission, and according to Mohammed, it is only a HUDNA, which really means: Time out to Marshall the Forces.

    HAVE YOU NOT HEARD ANOUT THE ISRAELI- EGYPTIAN PEACE AGREEMENT?

    HAVE YOU NOT HEARD ABOUT THE ISRAELI-JORDAN PEACE AGREEMENT?

    HAVE YOU NOT HEARD ABOUT THE ISRAELI-SYRIAN ARMISTICE AGREEMENT?

    There is a preconceived notion or stereotyped idea that all Jews are clever. But that is just prejudice. It is a falsehood that could be challenged by anyone reading some of these blogs.

29. A Peace as a result of a 2 State Solution is not reality. It is nice to wish & dream but let’s live in a world of reality. The JCPA should have kept its mouth shut.

    1. The JCPA resolution is quite dangerous. Whoever is the next Pres of the US will say “Look, the Jews of the US want a 2 state solution” despite the fact that American Jewry is not monbolothic in its view on a 2 state solution. A new Israeli gov’t could reverse itself yet the JCPA already spoke for American Jewry.

    2. A 2 state solution leading to peace is just not reality. Even if Olmert signed a deal with the P.A., pulled out of Yehuda & Shomron, gave up parts of Yerushalayim, including the Temple Mount, and took in hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, peace would be still-born. The P.A. never carried out any of the major provisions of Oslo. Maps produced by the P.A. have the name PALESTINE over all of Israel. P.A. schools teach that the destruction of Israel is a goal. Palestinian TV, which is under P.A. control, is not any better. While Abass talks peace to the foreign press, his comments in Arabic are quite beligerent.To get Abass to sign, Israel wil have to agree to surrender parts of Yehudah & Shomron, something Olmert is ready to do. Yerushalayim is to be divided; again, Olmert is already discussing this with the P.A. And Israel would have to agree take in thousands of Palestinians. The last is national suicide. And the P.A. knows this.

    3. The trouble lies not with the JCPA but with the Olmert gov’t. Olmert, in his desire to get an agreement, gives the P.A. a pass on its anti-Israel retoric. Olmert’s concessions, even before negotiations, is the starting point for the next Pres, i.e., land surrender, division of Yerushalayim & a Palestinian state. Despite the fact that Olmert never faced the Israeli electorate, he is doing everything in his power to push his agenda. A member of the Winnigrad Commission admitted that they agreed not to say anything that would jepordiza Olmert. In this context, I have no doubt that the JCPA resolution was initiated with a similar motivation and may have come at his request.

30. In all of this, everyone is ignoring an irrefutable fact: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PERMANENT AGREEMENT WITH ARABS! By their own admission, and according to Mohammed, it is only a HUDNA, which really means: Time out to Marshall the Forces.

    Israel needs to stand alone, fight for survival and not be bamboozled into duplicitous so-called agreements to achieve peace. There will never be peace with the Arabs, not in Israel and not anywhere else. If Israel ceased to exist tomorrow, the Arabs would be seeking other territories to conquer because in their world-view, the whole world must be dominated by Islam and those who chose not to submit are either put to death or reduced to Dhimmitude, a form of serfdom meant to serve their Arab masters.

    I refer everyone to Rafael Patai’s book THE ARAB MIND, regarding Hudna’s and what the Arabs want to achieve. Also, the documentary “Farewell Israel: Bush, Iran and THE REVOLT OF ISLAM.” There is an Arab strategy to reconquer not only Israel, but also Andaluz (Spain) etc. in steps or parts.

    Peace with the Arabs is illusive. Chasing after it is akin to chasing the pot at the end of a rainbow: the closer you think you get, the more it dissipates before your eyes.

    What we are dealing with here is Arab Imperialism on the march because thanks to Oil, they have gained an enormous amount of geopolitical clout and they have their Western partners: the Oil Industry helping them. Alternatives are about to emerge making them irrelevant.

    The Quartet, the State Department etc. are all a party to the Oil/Arab nexus. They will be defeated despite their efforts to keep cheaper and greener alternatives from emerging, liberating the world from their strangle hold. What we must do with our own people now is prevent them from making terrible deals and giving any more away.

    Who is dictating that unless Israel accepts a 2-State solution, it will have to be a binational state? Israel is a sovereign nation and the world cannot impose, outsiders cannot impose conditions, break it up or anything else anymore than the world can tell Saudi Arabia and Jordan that they have to cut themselves up and take in the Arabs they have sent us!

    The only thing that ever has determined the outcome of such disputes has never been negotiations and agreements to appease! It has always been determined after a war has been fought, the enemy defeated and conditions imposed on the vanquished! That’s reality.

    Jews have to get out of the “shtetl mentality” immediately! Agreeing to such outrageous demands is tantamount to agreeing to be herded to the slaughter in Auschwitz! How dare any Jew think in this direction. A war is going to have to be fought soon. This war cannot be a ground war! Our enemies have been reinforced by very advanced Russian weapons—which is probably why Olmert etc. are taking such a defeatist attitude.

    In order to avoid a PR disaster, Israel must immediately warn the Arabs in Gaza to move all civilians out of the region where they have their rocket launchers because we are going to destroy them by air attacks. We have the capabilities to do so and succeed.

    G-d forbid, the IDF cannot go in on the ground—but we must fight and we must win! If Rabbi Twersky believes in Hashem, he has to believe that if we make the proper effort—Hashem will intercede and help us. Already Hashem demonstrated this when He bungled the Arab’s efforts to create another PR nightmare for us with a chain of children in Gaza! Hashem sent a cloudburst and the children being bussed in refused to get out of the busses. This was a sign that Hashem is with us.

    In the not too distant future, Oil will become irrelevant and those in power now will be out—everywhere! We have to be forward thinking and not believe that the status quo will endure forever. Look forward with courage, hope and faith!

    Gail Tenzer

31. It is much too late for Israel to annex the territories,

    I disagree. Time will tell.

32. Given the destabilized state of the region, maintaining the status quo is an impossibility. Pressure for a resolution of the crises is coming from all sides. America, EU, the Arab league, and other Arab states,most Muslim States and most of Europe and Asia.And the majority of Israelis and American Jews agree on the need for a negotiated solution. The holdouts Iran, Hamas, and of course Ted Belman, Yamit 82 and the rest of the Right Wing crazies both in Israel and America.

    Unfortunately we are living in a world of Nation States. A Palestinian Authority cannot last forever. That entity was and is a temporary construct. There is no such organizational structure anywhere else on this globe.

    It is much too late for Israel to annex the territories, which leaves just one other option left.

    The nations in the region are interlocked. An action in one affects the others, which for obvious strategic, economic reasons affects the rest of the world (oil!!!).

    For those who find this scenerio unpalatable, suggest you move the Jewish State to Paradise Island, Bahamas.

    Ted, you might find me to be nuts, but you can’t fight reality.

    H. Peskin

33. narvey:

    The Jewish Council for Public Affairs (JCPA)cannot be faulted for its broad general hope for peace between Israel and the Palestinians underlying this current resolution.

    yes they can! These are supposed to be leaders of all major organizations and communities in the U.S. Intelligent and responsible leaders do not do such things ad hoc. I don’t care what any constituent member thinks but as an umbrella org. speaking for all affiliated American Jews this is a bad move and good things will not come of it. The only other explanation other than pure stupidity is that this resolution was solicited by someone with an agenda who did not have Israels or American Jewry’s best interests in mind. This resolution to me seems made to order. Question then is who placed the order and why it was so freely given?

    I would enter the names on a shit list of people who work against Israel and when they visit hound them out of the country, they are either stupid evil or both in any event they should not be shown a positive welcome when they do come to visit. They want peace I want a million dollars so what who are they to decide what is good for us here?
    When the Road map was announced an Israeli Newspaper took a poll

    in Yedioth Ahronoth
    56 percent of
    Israelis responding believed that the nation
    should agree to the road map, versus 34 percent
    who said the plan should be rejected,
    “Yeah And the Jews also willingly
    boarded those trains [to the Nazi concentration
    camps], believing everything that the Germans
    told them. The Jews have always posed a danger to
    themselves. They have brought Holocausts upon
    themselves throughout the course of their
    history.”

34. How would American Jews react if my group of Israeli righteous Jews lets call our selves the National Council for Peace with Jew Haters and Bashers NCPJB We will issue a resolution that in Areas defined in America as primarily Black populated No Jew shall enter or be allowed in under penalty of death. and areas primarily designated as Jewish populated (40%) or more no blacks allowed in under penalty of being politely asked to leave unless he happens to be a necessary day laborer or maid , gardener etc. the special passes and privileges will be accorded. We will extend our ecumenical hand in peace to David Duke and Louis Farrakhan in the hopes that someday They and our American brothers and sisters will find that common ground and make peace. Our hope and our Dream that it be so! We advocate separation and segregation for all diverse hate and hated groups in America especially (the Jews) Keep em apart for peace and their own good is our gaol and philosophical underpinning.

35. Why do American Jewish groups feel they must issue statements on complex issues? If the JCPA represents the Jewish community, how come I never get to vote for the leaders who support such absurd policies?

    These groups have learned nothing from Oslo, from the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty, from Saudi Arabia’s duplicity in dealing with the United States, from the recent statements by Abbas that military action by the Palestinians could be an option at a later time. Israel always makes territorial concessions that endanger the Jewish State. The Arabs make promises of peace, diplomatic and cultural relations, ending incitement and opposing terror which they have no intention of keeping.

    All these “peace processes” are the result of the failure by the Israeli government and the American Jewish community to understand that the war against Israel is a religiously-motivated jihad. The Jews, in the Islamic view, are infidels (“dhimmis”) who have no right to rule over any land that once belonged to Muslims. Ultimately Muslims are commanded to fight until the whole world submits to the rule of Islam. No concessions on Israel’s part will change the foundations upon which 1300+ years Islamic belief are built. The best Muslims can ever offer Israel is a “hudna” or temporary truce for up to 10 years or until such time that the Muslims feel they have gained the necessary might for a military victory.

    Wouldn’t it be better for American Jewish organizations to face reality and then explain that reality to the world? Otherwise, they need to keep quiet and stop acting in ways that continue to put their fellow Jews in danger.

36. The Jewish Council for Public Affairs (JCPA)cannot be faulted for its broad general hope for peace between Israel and the Palestinians underlying this current resolution.

    While the JCPA seems conversant with the history of the Palestinians/Arabs as regards Israel, it is amazing that the JCPA would promulgate this resolution that ignores what that history teaches.

    That history spells out in the darkest and starkest terms that the meaning of peace for Israelis for their part and for the Palestinians/Arabs for their’s, is not the same thing and that those two disparate visions of peace are irreconcilable.

    It is one thing for the world to want to frame the conflict and ongoing war between Israel and the Palestinians/Arabs in a way that ignores history’s lessons in order to push their own agendas to serve their own interests, but it is appalling that Israel and the JCPA, speaking for so many main stream Jews, would hold fast to a vision for peace that ignores what history has shown by now is a virtually incontrovertible fact, that the vision of peace for Palestinians/Arabs does not have to do with territorial sharing, but rather the acquisition by Palestinians/Arabs of all the land of Israel for themselves.

    The Palestinian vision for peace remains exactly what it was which is that Israel has no right to exist, and peace for the Palestinians/Arabs is a war process to eliminate Israel in stages.

    Such has been the Palestinian strategy ever since Arafat, taking guidance from the Russians in the 1960’s, fashioned the PLO into a liberation movement and with that and the advice of the North Koreans adapted their strategy to carry on their war against Israel in stages, with the last stage being the destruction of Israel and thus the Palestians would have peace amongst their people throughout the land of former Israel and Israel would have the peace of the grave.

    How sad and demoralizing that Israel and The Jewish Council for Public Affairs (JCPA), continue to act on hopes that can never be realized for so long as the Palestinians/Arabs remain committed to a vision for peace that not only denies Israel’s right to exist, but requires Israel to be ultimately eliminated in the last stage of the Palestinian/Arab peace process.

    Hope for Jews and Israel will not be found in going along with soothing lies about the peace process, but rather fighting to displace those lies with harsh truths and so we at Israpundit, other like minded blogs, and other important like voices, in spite of that sadness and demoralizaion, must hold fast to the hope that by never giving up on truth, we can somehow make a difference for the better.

37. I will have to think on this for awhile and see what other have to say before I can give concluding remarks to what I am about to say now.
    Questions: who called a meeting of this forum? (JCPA) Was a consideration of such a resolution on the agenda or was it a last min. insertion? In either case were the representatives informed before hand? If yes did ea rep. Poll their constituencies? Ea. community council I would guess is made up of different organizations with the larger communities having more organizations. How is vote calculated 1 council one vote or according to size of community and how many organizations within ea. community or a poll of reps for ea. rep. organization and or chapter? I would like to know who set this farce up? who went along who objected? was the vote results made public? Why at this time would they feel any necessity to make such a resolution?

    THIS STINKS! It is a rotten insidious usurpation of Authority and Privilege in so manipulating such an important communition position or resolution.

    whether Olmert and Condi are behind this or not somebody was and I want to know ASAP who that somebody was! It is difficult enough to have to contend with antisemites, Islamics, American leadership politicians, and the Israeli Left Now we have to include mainstream American Jewish Organizations?

    My gut tells me that this was an attempt by some one to create An Aura Jewish Public Acceptance of a political position few if any have any knowledge or awareness of its nature and subsequent consequences first for Israel but ultimately for all of world Jewry. How dare they take it upon themselves to make such a resolution! what Chutzpa!

    I can understand secular Jewish organization maybe going along after all most are nominal Jews at best most very assimilated and most ignoramuses, when it comes to anything really Jewish in nature and content but the OU? They all know better and their very acquiescence to this farce puts them beyond the Pale. Religious Jews ? Orthodox Jews? I would call them Hypocritical Jews and even worse. They know better. Galut Pygmies. Three times a day these hypocrites pray next year in Jerusalem, They face Jerusalem in prayer. they recite daily Psalms of yearning for Zion and what do they do when its counts? My gut also tells me with Jews like this who need enemies?

    Netanyahu made speeches on all the Worlds Major Media warning that we are living back in 1938 and likened our situation to the rise of Hitler. What convinces me that he may be correct is not so much the Iranian threat and rising antisemitism in the world but the behavior of American Jews that for me is the clincher. In 1938-43 The Jews were mostly silent and scared. It looks like todays American Jews have not progressed all that much since 1938. In1938-43 they were silent while their brothers were shot,hanged starved and gassed, it seems as if they would do it again.

    I would like to present this essay in tribute to all of the OU and their American fellow members of JCPA

    – The Religious Jew –
    By Rabbi Meir Kahane, Zt”l

    The “religious” Jew? Nay, say rather the Orthodox practitioner of Jewish ritual whose sojourn in an exile two millenia old has corrupted and and perverted the most basic of real Jewish values. Bearded and piously
    payotic, or cleanshaven and woolly-skullcapped, they join with all the others in the ecumenical worship of the Golden Calf of our times: The Golden Exile.

    Israel? Go up to the Land of Israel? Go up to the Land to which they turn in prayer three times daily – eticulously; never missing a ritual? Go up to the Land concerning which they shed hot tears every Tisha B’Av, anniversary of the national day of national mourning? Actually uproot themselves from the Exile and go dwell in the Zion and Jerusalem they piously seek every year, “next year?”

    But the chandeliers and the expensive shaitel wig and the quicksand that is the good life are far more powerful than commandments.

    “For you are to pass over the Jordan to go in to possess the Land which the L-rd your G-d giveth you, and you shall possess it and dwell therein…” Deuteronomy 11.

    “And they scorned the desirable land…” Psalm 106

    And so they invent all kinds of rationales, all cloaked in a tallit that is all blue. “Israel is also Exile…” “This is not the beginning of the redemption, merely the footsteps of the Messiah…”

    Can one look at a state that rises miraculously after two millenia and watch an ingathering of exiles from a hundred lands and not see in this the beginning of the great vision and redemption? Regardless of the sins and
    abominations in the land? No, that which we do not wish to do, we do not. But first, we must stamp the swine with the halachic label of kosher…

    Nothing moves the “religious…” they have been inordinately twisted and corrupted by twenty centuries of abnormality. One simply cannot live as a minority for twenty centuries, two thousand years, supping at other’s
    tables, pleading for a smile, a tolerant act, love, and remain normal. One cannot live in a stranger’s home and remain stable. A minority must, of necessity, inherit insecurities, complexes, fear, instability. A minority
    must, of necessity, be exposed to and influenced by the majority culture that insidiously enters, corrupts, changes, lays its permanent hand on Judaism, so that the Jew assumes the Gentile value and assumes too, that it is Jewish.”

    And no one can remain normal without a state, a nation, a concept of nationhood and statehood The religion that was totally intertwined with land and earth and nation and power becomes a pale vapid set of rituals. When roots have lost their hold on the land, they slowly die of malnutrition.

    And so, they discover a new Zion and a New Jerusalem in the filth and impurity of the Exile. They immerse themselves in a ritualarium even as they wave high the impure creeping creature. They become Americans or
    Englishmen or Frenchmen or Canadians of Mosaic piety, deeply pious piety. They stand firmly on the barricades to insure that their meat shall be more than merely kosher; that the gorgeous wig shall cover the rather plain woman as she wears her very expensive dress that overshadows her neighbor, but which properly covers the elbow as she installs her chandelier; that they shall live in the comfort of the swine and not have to risk the sufferings of the pure in Eretz Yisrael.

    What matter that the rabbis decree that “a man shall rather live in the Land of Israel in a city with a majority of heathens rather than in the Exile in a city with a majority of Jews.” What matter that the rabbis proclaim that
    “one who lives outside of Israel worships idols in purity…?” What matter that they intone that one who lives outside the land “is as one who has no G-d”? One knows how to explain away rabbinical injunctions when the spirit so desires…

    The Jew waits. He waits to be a victim, twice ov

    er.