Nobel laureate Professor Robert (Yisrael) Aumann says Israel can learn from Iran how to stand its ground and get its way • Aumann supports Netanyahu’s Congress address: “If you chase peace it only eludes you. That’s not game theory; that’s history.”
By Nadav Shragai, ISRAEL HAYOM
Nobel laureate Professor Robert (Yisrael) Aumann is convinced that both Iran and North Korea are making a mockery of the international community.
“Iran in mocking the entire world and it is still getting its way. North Korea is also mocking the entire world and it too is getting its way,” says Aumann, 84, who in 2005 was awarded the Nobel Prize in Economics.
“The world aligns itself with those who are strong, even if they are the embodiment of evil. That is why [Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu’s insistence on addressing Congress in an effort to prevent a deal between the United States and Iran is vital,” Aumann says.
Internationally renowned for his contributions to the field of game theory, Aumann believes the prime minister should hold his ground.
“Capitulation, sycophancy, and cowardice will only undermine us,” he says. “Sometimes, you have to courageously follow your own path and not try to curry favor with anyone.”
Israel’s actions during the 1967 Six-Day war and the 1976 Entebbe hostage crisis, as well as its decision to bomb the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981, “garnered worldwide sympathy. Eventually, this will be the case here, as well. The world will learn to appreciate Israel’s determination against the Iranian threat, and something good will come of this adamant stance.”
I spoke with Aumann at a conference hosted by the Federmann Center for the Study of Rationality in the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
“Rationality addresses the question of whether what you are doing, the actions you take, further your objectives or not, meaning whether or not you using you head to reach your goal,” he said. Netanyahu’s decision to address Congress, he said, “is well within the realm of the rational.”
Even if the chance that Israel will be attacked by Iran is slim, “the result of such a strike would be so destructive that the risk cannot be measured by probability alone. Probability isn’t everything. It has to be multiplied by the variable of potential damage, should the threat be realized.”
Aumann dismissed suggestions the address might do more harm than good, and might even jeopardize Israel-U.S. relations.
“I don’t accept that,” he said. “This is a matter of life and death for Israel. Obama may be president, but you have Congress, and you have [American] public opinion, and I believe Netanyahu is exercising reasonable discretion in this case.
“The Iranians not only withstand U.S. [pressure], they scoff at it. They are able to endure economic pressure and sanctions, and they are able to make more headway than someone capitulating and showing weakness. In that respect we can learn a lesson from them on how to withstand pressure. So far, on this issue, Netanyahu has been able to withstand pressure. He has to speak before Congress.”
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said this week that the prime minister’s concerns over the impending deal with Iran were unfounded, and vowed Tehran “will not have nuclear weapons,” but Aumann doubted the assertion.
“We can trust only ourselves. The president of the United States has to look out for U.S. interests — that is what he was elected to do. He does not have to look out for Israel’s interests, nor do I expect him to. The bottom line is that Obama is president of the United States — not the world — so when it comes to Israel’s interests I trust the prime minister’s discretion.”
The Nobel laureate dismissed the opposition’s assertion that Netanyahu’s Congress address is an election campaign ploy.
“I heard the government has been paralyzed for 13 out of the past 32 months — 40 percent of the time — because of election time. That’s inconceivable,” he says.
“A government must be able to operate even in election time. If the police can investigate Yisrael Beytenu, and if the state comptroller can release reports on the Prime Minister’s Residence and the housing crisis, than Netanyahu can go to the U.S. to try to do everything he can to prevent a deal between the U.S. and Iran — even in election time.
“There is no such thing as ‘things you can and cannot do during election time,’ especially when some things are crucial to our security. It is inconceivable that you can run police investigations and publish reports [during election time], but running the country and dealing with something as critical as the nuclear talks — that you cannot do.”
Aumann was deeply pained by the 2005 disengagement from Gush Katif, although even today he applies rational standards to the issue.
“This expulsion, which was born out of weakness, concessions, and gestures [to the Palestinians], only bolstered Hamas in the Gaza Strip, and resulted in massive rocket fire at Israel,” he says. ‘This expulsion led to [the 2006] Lebanon War. This expulsion was supposed to bring about peace, but it only brought war and terror. Gestures rarely result in respect — only in contempt.”
While Aumann refused to hedge about Obama’s frame of mind, he made no secret of his opinions on the American president’s moves.
“I would rather focus on our interests, and Netanyahu is doing a good job promoting them,” he says.
Indeed, Aumann has been focusing on Israel’s management of the Iranian threat. Several years ago, during a lecture at Bar-Ilan University, he told the audience: “All these cries for peace we hear in Israel, especially from our side, do not bring peace any closer — they only push it away. If you chase peace it only eludes you. That’s not game theory; that’s history.”
He advised the audience to remember the Romans, and the fact that as “disagreeable” as they were, the Roman Empire ruled in peace for 400 years.
“Their motto was, ‘If you want peace, prepare for war,’ so they knew the game theory,” he says.
Despite the scathing criticism leveled at Netanyahu over the Congress address, Aumann described the move as “right,” adding that “if, as foreign reports suggest, we have nuclear deterrence, the chances of [an Iranian] attack are slim, but the situation is still dangerous enough for Netanyahu to do something unusual, even unpopular, to try to counter it.”
@ Felix Quigley:
bernard ross Said:
still waiting 😛 😛 😛
Felix Quigley Said:
Apparently you are a serial and chronic liar in dire need of treatment. Here is exactly what I said, from your own quotation of me:
Felix Quigley Said:
where did I mention “… the whole world”?
I named the specific targets.
It appears you are unable to control your lying like a case of diarrhea.
Perhaps there is a type of Imodium for your disorder, a truth serum ?
Pentathal in a perpetual drip might help 🙂
B Ross puts himself forward as the great defender of the Jews. But that is a cover. He may be and he may not. I do not know his history or him personally.
But and here is the essential thing…In the above B Ross is supporting the idea of chaos in the whole world and funny enough that is also the position according to Jared Israel and Francisco Gil White and many others of the CIA today.
I cannot say that B Ross is connected with the CIA and I will not say that because for one thing I only know him from what he writes on the net.
But taking his words on the net what he advocates runs in parallel with the CIA.
This can often happen where ideology leads certain types of people to support the CIA. This may be the case here.
Until the policy of the CIA today and B Ross running in tándem with same we cannot move on to further discussion of other issues.
Felix Quigley Said:
is your advice that Israel defend Assad based on a CIA/Jihadi war against russia? If so then why, isn’t Russia supplying Iran with anti missile sytems to shoot down Israeli planes?
Felix Quigley Said:
You apparently dont read my posts, I have always said the arab spring in syria and elsewhere was orchestrated. However, you appear to miss the point. Where you are in adoration of Russian and hence its allies of Iran, syria and hezbullah I dont care about Russia and the other 3 are sworn enemies at war with Israel. Hence:
Felix Quigley Said:
First, I do not consider them protests but rather orchestrated internal destabilization. Second, I welcome any movement which brings chaos, suffering, and death to Jew killers, jew haters, wannabe jew killers, those supporting jew killers, those funding jew killers, those spreading lies about Israel and Jews. Hence when gaza mothers who sent their toddlers to jew killing summer training camps, sat in the pile of destruction whining of their lot I had not a single tear for them but saw it as ironic justice. I feel the same about europe who stalks Israel and the jews still today after 2000 years: no tears for the chaos, civil strife and suffering they are entering for the next few decades…. after all this is what they sought for the Jews with their libels and support of Jew killing orgs. The same for those BDS supersessionist churches, who daily send their trolls to stalk Jews on Jewish sites and pay the honor killers to murder the Jews in the ME, when their jew stalking instead results in the chopping off of christian heads.
In fact, I consider it an insult that you come hear to ask Jews to support and defend those who want to kill them for the sake of your ideology. Obviously Israel and Jews are subservient in your agenda to your ideology whereas in mine they are superior and your ideology has no relevance.
Felix Quigley Said:
Where is the problem? If the CIA brings chaos, suffering and misery to jew haters and jew killers why would I mind? You still have not given any sensible reason as to why you advised Israel to defend Assad who is in alliance with Iran and Hezbullah who have sworn genocide against Israel and the Jewish people? I am still waiting for your reason.
B Ross rather tan being obsessed with you as you seem to be suggesting I find it difficult to follow your massive posts on Israpundit and your quite massive quoting of what I say, and for one thing I find it difficult to find the time to do so and I always ask myself is it worth the time? So I am far from being obsessed with you or in fact anybody on any site I read. I pursue an independent path.
However I cannot allow such attacks on me which are in essence personal and ad hominem attacks to go unanswered.
So in answer I am obsessed with nobody on Israpundit.
On the question of Assad I draw people back to the first protest against Assad.
Wikipedia put it like this and remember Wikipedia is quite biased against Assad:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War
This leaves out however that the Arab Spring uprisings were an extensión of the growing CIA involvement in countries surrounding Russia and especially in Georgia but extending into many others including at an early stage Ukraine.
Thus the Arab Spring protests did not stand on their own but were closely connected to the war on Russia by the forces of US and EU Imperialism.
For many decades it has been the intention of the US Imperialist system to use Islam as a weapon against Russia.
Thus B Ross I contend to you that there was much more to these protests connected with social media groups against Assad in the Spring of 2011
I am on record in opposing every aspect of these protests as above and especially all of the protest movements of the Arab Spring.
How about you though?
You seem to have been a welcomer of these protests in all of these countries?
Is that correct? You welcomed all of these protests on the basis that they would lead to civil wars and that these civil wars among the Arabs would be of advantage to the Jewish state of Israel.
So is that a fair statement on your position during all of these past years since 2011 and even before? That you support all of these civil wars, which are also CIA invested Civil Wars, during all of these years. If that is the case and I am not suggesting you are connected with the CIA because I know nothing about you, as I know nothing about anybody who I meet on the net, but if it is the case you are running hand in hand and alongside of the CIA.
That may be a problem.
dove Said:
G-d has said of and to the Jewish people: “… So said HaShem: My first-born Son is Israel.” (Ex. 4:22); and: “… My Legions — My People — the Children of Israel …” (Ex. 7:4); and: “For you are a holy people to HaShem, your God; HaShem, your God, has chosen you to be for Him a treasured people above all peoples that are on the face of the Earth. Not because you are more numerous than all the peoples did HaShem desire you and choose you, for you are the fewest of all the peoples. Rather, because of HaShem’s love for you and because He observes the oath that He swore to your forefathers did He take you out with a strong hand and redeem you from the house of slavery — from the hand of Pharaoh, king of Egypt.” (Deut. 7:6-8); and: “For you are a holy people to HaShem, your God, and HaShem has chosen you for Himself to be a treasured people from among all the peoples on the face of the Earth.” (Deut. 14:2); and: “And HaShem has distinguished you today to be for Him a treasured people, as He spoke to you, and to observe all His Commandments, and to make you supreme over all the nations that He made, for praise, for renown, and for splendor, and so that you will be a holy people to HaShem, your God, as He spoke.” (Deut. 26:18-19).
@ yamit82:
Neither. If you would like to discuss this further step over to chit chat.
@ yamit82:
Like duh? You already know the answer to that!! We are not a numbers game. Never meant to be a large number.
bernard ross Said:
Naw they were born that way probably in their DNA
@ dove:
During the time of the 2nd Temple there were approx 10-12 million Jews in the world The Chinese some 30 million today there are almost the same number of Jews as then and there are 1.5 billion Chinese. What happened to all those Jews? The holocausts and pogroms etc only account for a small number of population loss? We are today a statistical error in determining how many Chinese there are.
dove Said:
Do you mean mentally or chronologically????? 🙂
@ rongrand:
That doesn’t mean we can just sit on our duff and let G-d do all the work. It doesn’t work that way. We are a team. Partners. Of course it’s aggravating when we have members of the flock that don’t pull their weight OR go against the grain. Sometimes we have to cut them lose so they don’t sink us.
@ bernard ross:
Historically they belong to the erev rav
WHO ARE THE EREV RAV
BIBLICAL AND TALMUDIC SOURCES
Saving Face
After failing to stop Netanyahu from addressing Congress, Kerry calls him to say ‘We’re good, right?’
Read more at http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0315/kerry_calls.php3#5iCQ8uQghrZk5lff.99
@ bernard ross:
@ rongrand:
Netanyahu Speaks and (Some) American Jews Tremble
@ yamit82:
Maybe some of you old Jews have been old Jews for too long. I can understand alot of Jews thinking we have been dealt a very uneven and unfair deck…BUT thinking back to the Israelites – they did not know what the future would be. They just spent 400 years in slavery. Witnessed with their eyes the power of Moses G-d who rescued them from Pharoah AND destroyed their enemy. I don’t think there would have been much arm twisting done.
rongrand Said:
No I’m not smarter then you, I just deal with more information.
As to “a mighty Sheppard is watching over His sheep.” So far so good!!! 😉
dove Said:
From the same midrash:
“And they stood at the foot of the mountain” – Said R. Avdimi bar Chama bar Chasa: This teaches us that the Holy One held the mountain over them like an cask and said, “If you accept the Torah, then fine; but if not, I will bury you here.” Said R. Acha bar Yaakov: This serves notice that the Torah was accepted under duress [and thus, ostensibly, is not legally binding]. (Shabbat 88a)
This well-known aggada is generally understood to mean that since only coercive threats convinced Am Yisrael to receive the Torah, it is possible to evade its obligations, as in the case of any commitment undertaken unwillingly.
http://www.vbm-torah.org/shavuot/shv59ek.htm
@ dove:
Yamit your too smart for me.
You have to agree looking at a world map and viewing Israel surrounded by vast number of crazy neighbors, a mighty Sheppard is watching over His sheep.
rongrand Said:
I think some were chosen to be shmucks
rongrand Said:
I agree,
to me it looks like Stockholm Syndrome,rats hoping to leave a sinking ship syndrome, it wasn’t me syndrome, I’m not with him syndrome, me me me syndrome, ignorant fool syndrome, arrogant ignorant syndrome, full of crap syndrome, greedy pig syndrome, dumbass syndrome, etc etc etc……..
you name it and the Jews got it too. 🙁
yamit82 Said:
Absolutely right about Iraq who was a threat and now reduced to a bunch o warring tribes killing each other. Whats not to like???
Now we see the same in syria and soon in lebanon, perhaps those sunni jihadis need a little boost up to get back to serious killing of the others? the status quo of chaos and suffering in the arab world is great and has been for the last few years. Tomorrow is another day and anything can happen but the advantages to Israel of arab spring cannot be denied by anyone except our resident trotskyite.
Kurdish oil has already been landing in Israel at askelon or haifa
yamit82 Said:
don’t hold back 😛
@ rongrand:
Not necessarily. We have been in exile for over 2000 years. It is bound to have an impact. Many Diaspora Jews view Israel as ‘ancient’. Not something appealing to most. ie ultra orthodox who dress similar to other cults. Flip side – Tel Aviv is considered too modern by the observant Jew.
Not sure what you mean by pride. You do not have the advantage of seeing us when we get together and we can just be ourselves.
I am sure that you have heard before that the Jewish people were not the first people that G-d asked to become His people. Noticed asked? It was not forced upon? The Israelites agreed to accept the G-d of Moses. It was a two way street.
@ yamit82:
@ dove:
You may be right but I recall many years ago while a HS student a very nice man, a Jewish glazier told me “since we are people small in number we are clannish in order to survive”. A generous man who provide some of us Catholic HS students with glass & instructions to repair window we broke at our school.
As I see it, no matter where you reside, if you are Jewish you are connected to Israel by heritage, faith & by G-d.
There’s a need to return to being proud to be Jewish. For all the good Jews have provide the world how can you not be proud. Sure beats the hell out of me.??
If I am not mistaken Jews were chosen by G-d as His people.
Felix Quigley Said:
You need to explain this idiotic statement.
Wrong? Is Iraq today any threat to Israel? NO!!! Was Iraq under Saddam a threat real or potential? YES The fall of Saddam has eleminated a major enemy on our Eastern flank. That freed up thousands of IDF to focus on other fronts and use our manpower more effectively and efficiently. Israel also profited in billions of dollars supplying and training the American Army in Iraq.
Now it looks like Irag will be divided partially among our friends the Kurds and they have oil which will eventually make it’s way to Israeli refineries and ports South and West.
Jared Israel a criminal and Commie is an idiot and an AH just like you.
Felix your ignorance is only surpassed by your stupidity.
If you only had a brain!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg66kwRnOpw
bernard ross Said:
Good one!!! 😀
I think Felix is the only living follower of Trotzky that claims to support Jews and Israel. That little factoid has always made me suspect his declarations of support.
@ rongrand:
Hi rongrand. I’m sure you’ve heard the expression ‘you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink it’. Such is the plight of the Jewish people. It has always been that way. There are those of us who need to keep moving forward. We don’t have a ‘pope’. In other words….we don’t have a tangible ‘earthly’ leader which makes matters a little more difficult.
rongrand Said:
This is what you have never understood they are not our own kind they are liberal, progressive and democrat….Jews for them as a suffix of their identity is today purely coincidental it does not identify them and they do not identify us. They are worse than gentile Jew haters and weaken those who continue to maintain a real Jewish identity.
Because one calls themselves Jewish does not make them so..
I seldom view those on this site criticizing liberal American Jews who support not only this administration but the Democrats as a whole.
When your own kind can’t support Israel what the hell gives.
Wake up my friends time to call on those in America to get the hell off the kool-aid.
Felix Quigley Said:
Even your keyboard has rebelled against your ludicrous comments.
😛
Felix Quigley Said:
How does the BB speech create a MOMENT OF TRUTH for us?
I realize you are obsessed with us and have therefore lost focus, including us in all your unrelated posts because you are unable to defend or explain your positions with any logic, and your defend Assad advice has been severely discredited, but surely we are not the cause of everything in your life.
Felix Quigley Said:
LOL, you dig your hole deeper every time. Everyone knows that a defense of assad is a defense of hezbullah and Iran. They are allied now, they were allied then, and before your statement. Perhaps when you advised Israel to defend Assad you were not aware of these alliances. If so you would have been likely the only literate person in the world unaware of their long standing alliance and therefore you would have rendered yourself unqualified to speak on the subject.
The only parties fighting the dangerous Iran, Syrian and hezbullah axis is the sunni jihad. the sunni jihad has been sitting on Israelis golan border for over 2 years without causing Israel any problems but your Assad handlers of Iran and their hezbullah proxies have become very dangerous on the golan border. Pehaps if you had not advised Israel to support Assad and the jihadis had the upper hand they would be too busy defending Assad in Damascus and Latakia to threaten Israel at the golan. In fact, it was only after Assads axis started achieving success that Israel returned to the arena of being threatened. I fear your brain is muddled by a form of logic dyslexia where logic is reversed.
YOU never answered, do you still advise Israel to support Assad?
@ yamit82:
An interesting aside in watching that piece: First time anywhere I heard a media figure or anyone in the MSM speak the mostly likely truth about Robin Williams’s death:
ie death by SSRI’s.
…
Yeah he mentioned the liberal position which he adopts that “Americans don’t want another war” – problem is the rest of the world does and is at war.
As Netanyahu heads to the Congress speech it is also a moment of truth for Israpundit which has entertained for a long time people like Yamit82 and B Ross
It is true that Netanyahu made a gross error in judgment in lending his support to the war on Saddam in 2003
He thought Saddam had nuclear weapons. He did not see his removal as opening the door to the Jihad. But Jred Israel did and I suppored Jared.
In fact Sharon who was in power at the time backed by significant Israeli support did not agree with the war on Saddam but he expressed his opposition to Bush in private, not publicly
I also believe that the opposition to the war by the Fascist Left (ati-wr demos in London and all over) was the product of pacifism and also of support for Iran. They were saying first Saddam then Iran was behind the war. In fact it was first Saddam in order to empower Iran. That was the rea aim.
So the seeds of the Obama present Alliance with Iran and against Israel were present in the Bush Governemnt of 2003. But Obama represents a different stage of that.
As a general rule in this situatioon it is vital to support the secular in order to block the Jihad. We mean by this secular in a relative sense. Saddam always carried the Koran but still he was a secular type dictatorial ruler.
The creation of the Arab Spring has also created the most dangerous situation of Israel in the world with Iran enormously strengthened
On one level the downfall of leaders like Mubarak, Gadhafi and now Assad has thrown the whole región into huge chaos and these are the ideal conditions for the Twelfth Iman
Iran seeks above all chaos.
It is in these fast changing conditions that Islamic State Jihad happens and this Jihad is not at all something that is antagonistic to the interests of Iran.
Also in a general sense the US is following a pattern of creating chaos in the world.
But America is also the Government and system of the Great American Revolution and this is what underpins the continued support of the American people for Jews and Judaism. These roots are not easily destroyed with or dispensed with.
This is why the Netanyahu speech to Congress is creating such massive interest in the political life of America.
The Alliance of Obama with Iran, Turkey, Islamic State, Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and against Israel is also against the key gains of the American Revolution of Washington
B Ross is a lair as to what I said in relation to defending Assad. I never said defend Assad and thereby defend Iran in fact I was very explicit in saying the very opposite. I said defend Assad agaisnt the Jihad. In the meantime I opposed Yamit82 here who dismisses the huge importance of the veto representing this historical Alliance of Israel with America which will still exist despite Governments. He changes his position from week to week even on this Netanyahu speech in Congress. Yamit also called among other things for the beheading of Chrtistians even as ISIS was doing that to Azedis and Syrian Christians.
G-d help us. By now you would hope and pray American liberal Jews will understand the WH and Democrats are not friends of the Jews or Israel,
Time to get off the kool-aid.
Why is this WH and Democrats determined to protect the likes of Iran, the key supporter of terrorism against Israel and the free world.
Wake up.
@ watsa46:
It was too over the top.. so there was a need for google…
but actually p-un-ked me there for a while…
@ Max:
Tks for the correction.
Rice: “Netanyahu Must Understand That US Needs To Support Its Best Middle Eastern Friend – Iran”
Rice: “Netanyahu Must Understand That US Needs To Support Its Best Middle Eastern Friend – Iran”
Charlie Rose hosts Bill Maher, stand-up comedian, television host, political commentator, writer, producer, and actor and now host of HBO’s Real Time with Bill Maher on the Charlie Rose show. Maher states a case for Islam being a bigoted and violent religion. Although Rose tries to argue, it’s hard to argue with the facts. Watch an interesting and fact laden interview where the facts are calmly laid on the table.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2KYR30RRbU
Greta Susan Rice, who’s destructive in US bond with Israel latest news today
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bGaIqvIVjs
Feb 28, 2015
White House elevates Israel tensions
Obama administration steps up attacks on Netanyahu ahead of speech to Congress
Obama’s Secret Iran Strategy
The president has long been criticized for his lack of strategic vision. But what if a strategy, centered on Iran, has been in place from the start and consistently followed to this day?
Why the White House Is Manufacturing a Crisis in Relations with Israel
@ bernard ross:
I’m waiting with anticipation for Netanyahu speech. You know more about what is going on with BB. I’m hoping he tells the truth about the situation in the ME with Iran. The American people are constantly misinformed. We do not have honesty in our media. A friend of my was in the audience when years ago BB came and gave a speech and, (She is a judge) she said that he is an excellent speaker. He should use those skills to win the Americans public and Congress. The American people need to hear the truth instead of the story tales and lies they are constantly feeding us. The media is not our friend.
I hope for a surprise with unexpected results. We need to wake
up with a big doses of TRUTH. Thank you for your very informative postings.
yamit82 is very well informed when it comes to Israel politics. Thanks to both of you.
watsa46 Said:
From the fact checking site:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/stance.asp
STATUS: FALSE
Is it a full moon?