[..] It’s natural for Americans, or Israelis, to side with the Georgians. They’re a small country fighting a very big one, and one with a nasty record of pushing small countries around. Moreover, they have a government that’s pro-American and pro-Israeli, and that’s proud of belonging to Europe and the West at a time when Europe and the West are no longer so proud of themselves. One’s first instinct is to identify with them against the Russians.
But the Abkhazians and the Ossetians are even smaller people who feel they’ve been pushed around by the Georgians. In fact, it’s a sheer accident of history that they find themselves in Georgia in the first place. When the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was established after the Bolshevik Revolution, which itself followed hundreds of years of Czarist expansion, all of Russia was divided into 15 or 16 (the number fluctuated) “union republics” according to ethnic and national lines. But since the number of different ethnic and national groups in Russia ran into the hundreds, most of these were given separate “autonomous republics” that were incorporated into the “union republics” for reasons of bureaucratic efficiency.
This is how both Abkhazia and South Ossetia came to be part of Georgia. It’s not very different from how imperialist powers drew borders elsewhere in the world — particularly in Africa, where different tribal groups were thrown together in the same countries by the whims of colonial secretaries and foreign offices that weren’t able to Google them in those days.
It didn’t matter very much as long as the USSR was a going concern, because since everyone was taking orders from Moscow, the “autonomous republics” were as free as the “union republics.” But suddenly one day the USSR broke up, Georgia became an independent country, and the Abkhazians and Ossetians were now expected to take orders from Tbilisi. You can’t expect them to have liked it, especially as the Georgians wished to Georgianize South Ossetia and Abkhazia far more than the Russians ever wished to Russify them.
Self-determination v sovereignty
And indeed, why shouldn’t Abkhazia and South Ossetia have the right to secede from Georgia and go back to being part of Russia as they would like to be? Because of the lines some Soviet commissar arbitrarily drew on a map back in the 1920s?
The standard answer, of course, is that how boundaries came to be drawn no longer matters. They are there and must be internationally respected. Unless we consider them sacred, wars of conquest will never stop and stronger nations will go on taking land from weaker ones.
Needless to say, however, the “sacred principle” of national sovereignty clashes with another “sacred principle” of modern international life, that of the right to self-determination. And when that happens, principles cease to matter entirely. When it came to Kosovo, which had been an autonomous republic within Serbia, America, and Europe were all for self-determination. When it comes to Abkhazia and South Ossetia, they are all for national sovereignty. You can’t blame the Russians, who know something about hypocrisy, for finding this hypocritical.
Here in Israel, we know something about hypocrisy, too. Self-determination is internationally sacred for the Palestinians, but it isn’t for the Kurds, the southern Sudanese, the Tamils of Sri Lanka, and dozens of other peoples. After all, the national sovereignty of Iraq, Sudan, and Sri Lanka must be respected.
In the end, Georgia will take its lumps over Abkhazia and South Ossetia because while America and Europe may care about Georgian sovereignty, they care about avoiding war or severe tension with Russia even more.
The only real sacred principle of international life continues to be, as it always has been, perceived national self-interest. The Georgians, who should have known better, are going to learn that lesson the hard way now.
Mr. Halkin is a contributing editor of The New York Sun.
Good News.
..
Russia acted with unilateral force completely unchecked by any internal discussion, counterbalance or dissent. Compare this with actions by America in which for the main, almost every move invokes waves of counter balancing opinion and the input of opposing forces into the crucible before the decision is made.
This is what is so dangerous about Russia, it instantly turned to war and threatened and is ready for war with Poland, NATO and America without any internal mediation. They, the government is locked and loaded – always. The democratic influence has not reached too far into the structure of the old system.
…
Felix and the Old Communist Guard still have their dream machine for World Conquest and hope to re-awaken it.
My grandfather was too young to be in the Russian army, they got food from outside the ghetto because he has relatives who went to the Czar’s cooking school.
Good one, NoName!
NoNameDenton,
my Grandfather also fled the pogroms in Ukraine in 1905, actually he was in the Russian Army and deserted to America. That Year a good Jew caused the defeat of Russia to the Japanese. Most Jews either don’t know, don’t care or forgot this episode but I fear the Russians still have a long memory:
Jacob Henry Schiff, born Jacob Hirsch Schiff (January 10, 1847 – September 25, 1920) was a German-born New York City banker and philanthropist, who helped finance, among many other things, the Russian Revolution of 1917 and the Japanese military efforts against Tsarist Russia in the Russo-Japanese War.
From his base on Wall Street, he was the foremost Jewish leader in what became known as the “Schiff era,” grappling with all major issues and problems of the day, including the plight of Russian Jews under the tzar, American and international anti-Semitism, care of needy Jewish immigrants, and the rise of Zionism. He also became the director of many important corporations, including the New York City National Bank, the Equitable Life Assurance Society, and the Union Pacific Railroad.
Schiff grew to be one of American Jewry’s top philanthropists and leaders, donating to nearly every major Jewish cause
[
Over the years, before, during, and after World War I, his firm extended loans to many nations all around the world, but Schiff made sure none of the funds ever went to Russia, which continued to severely oppress the Jewish people. When the Tsar’s government fell in 1917, Schiff believed that the oppression of Jews (and other peoples) would end. He became sympathetic for Alexander Kerensky’s government, and formally repealed the impediments within his firm against lending to Russia. Of course, once the policies and doctrines of Lenin’s and Trotsky’s Soviet government became apparent, Schiff once more became bitterly opposed to aiding Russia in any way.
WE COULD USE MORE JEWS LIKE THIS TODAY!!!!
NATO is not what it used to be, should probably be dissolved, especially since most of the countries in NATO can be blackmailed by Russia threatening to cut off enery supplies to the rest of Europe. I was however quite happy that John McCain said as president he will support Georgia’s admittance into NATO, we need them and the Urkanians to hem in Russia.
Russia is the Imperialist Aggressor here. They used their power to arm and encourage militants. Something that could have be relatively peaceful was turned into another death quagmire.
Same as Iran Syria and Hezbollah.
It’s gangsterism at the highest level. That’s why we need relatively good international forces like NATO and America.
It still comes down to Democracy versus Totalitarianism. That war has still been on for over a century. It’s not over yet, not even close to being over.
Personally yamit, I think that is one of the dumbest comments Bush made. I prefer John McCain’s comment “I looked into his (Putin’s) eyes and I saw three letters K-G-B”.
NoNameDenton; my grandfather also fled RUSSIA,in 1905, and came to AMERICA
Jacob Henry Schiff, born Jacob Hirsch Schiff (January 10, 1847 – September 25, 1920) was a German-born New York City banker and philanthropist, who helped finance, among many other things, the Russian Revolution of 1917 and the Japanese military efforts against Tsarist Russia in the Russo-Japanese War.
From his base on Wall Street, he was the foremost Jewish leader in what became known as the “Schiff era,” grappling with all major issues and problems of the day, including the plight of Russian Jews under the tzar, American and international anti-Semitism, care of needy Jewish immigrants, and the rise of Zionism. He also became the director of many important corporations, including the New York City National Bank, the Equitable Life Assurance Society, and the Union Pacific Railroad.
Schiff grew to be one of American Jewry’s top philanthropists and leaders, donating to nearly every major Jewish cause, as well as many secular American causes such as the Boy Scouts of America, and a number of other organizations for civil rights and the disadvantaged, such as the American Red Cross and Tuskegee Institute. He also played a role in the municipal affairs of New York City, and worked to shrink the reliance on machine bureaucracy in this arena.
THE JEWS MAY HAVE FORGOTTEN SCHIFF AND JEWISH PAYBACK TO THE RUSSIANS, BUT RUSSIA HASN’T !
NoNameDenton:
I really knew we (Israel and America) were in big shit when I heard from the lips of the Great one in the White House say:
So much for how America views the world!!!
I trust Condi Rice more then Czar Putin a man who has basically become the dictator of Russia, explain how a democratically elected president in Georgia is a thug compared to Putin a man so obsessed with remaining in charge of Russia, he got the Prime Minister job by appointing a lackey to take over the presidency. Russia is trying to rebuild their empire, and stomping on whoever they want to achieve their goals. Georgia on the other hand was moving troops from one poin in their country to another point, Russia had no right to invbade Georgia and if you actually believe the Russians, you need your head examined, because you placing your trust in the likes of a man who used to have a high position in the KGB, an orinization that did its best to destroy America.
And where is the U.N. in all of this? Hiding under their desks until another attacker against Israel comes out of their hole to declare a Palestinian State. You can be sure that the ONLY STATE THE U.N. is concerned with violating the rights of is Israel. They could hardly care less about other people’s rights are being violated, so long as Israel’s rights continue to be violated. After studying the Clinton affiliations with the U.A.E., it wouldn’t surprise me if the Clintonian affiliates in Russia have waged this war to achieve some kind of political victory to be used in our aspirations against Iranian Uranium enrichment – THEY WILL GO THERE! Democrats, terrorists and communists are all ONE WORLD and their ONENESS was clear during the 1990s and it’s even more clearer today!
I was all for Russians getting on our side to fight against terrorists, but their current actions are evil and terrible and I applaud the world’s democracies for denouncing the Russian invasion of Georgia – we need to find out what pissed off the Russian government so bad and find a negotiable compromise – otherwise, it’s World War IV. Yes, we’ve been in World War III since Hitler was killed and World War IV will come soon unless the world gets on Israel and America’s side. I hope and pray that 2008 will not see a democratic government, but if it does happen – it’s over for the world. It’s great to see leaders stand up to the Russians for picking on the little guys in Georgia and before I made my comment, I was not aware that Georgia was our ally, therefore I support the Georgians during this difficult and terrible time. I hope the Russians stop their stupid little war and wise up.
Denton:
I don’t think your resentment will serve you well in the long run. But his escape was good for you anyway, and probably also for him. The danger is not that you believe what the Russians say, but that you uncritically believe people like Condoleezza Rice without raising your eyebrows.
No Per, I will never believe anything the Russians or their sympathizers say, after they persecuted my Jewish grandfather with making him live in a ghetto, and surviving progroms, he had to escape in 1905 to America.
This is what Hollywood thinks, and therefore it has become international policy in the Axis of Stupidity. Have you ever made a reflection on why the Russians are so mad about the planned American rocket shield in Europe? Would’t it be good for them as well if Iranian ballistic nukes could be downed over Russian territory?
The article’s author is an apologist for the Russians as is “Per”. The Russians couldn’t care less about self-determination for the Abkhazians and the Ossetians. As was posted here yesterday, for Russia, it is about an oil pipeline. And as I said yesterday, Russia is still the evil empire.
Per is that what the South told the North?
But the story is not quite that simple. You lose a lot of rights under international law when you attack defenseless civilians with an army and pound apartment blocks with artillery shells.
Per; whether a government is corrupt and worthy of the name is a different subject. Georgia’s current government is the legitimate government until changed democratically or otherwise. They had every right under international law to bring back from separatists a Provence that under International law belongs to Georgia and Russia by the same token had no rights invading another sovereign nation under pretexts everyone knows and agrees were for other geopolitical and economic reasons.
I don’t care so much about Georgia corrupt or otherwise but in all of my personal business dealings with Gruzinis ( Georgians) I found them honest, honorable, their word was their bond and they always kept it with me. I can’t say the same about Russians.
yamit:
I’m afraid you are another victim of tabloid propaganda. I give no more for the legitimately elected government in Georgia than for the same in Gaza. It has proven to be a brutal gangster regime wearing down the entire country while arming and enriching itself. Israel must leave Georgia and stay far away from such regimes. The loss of international reputation is not worth a few millions from arms trade.
Present day Georgia was designed by commisar Stalin, and he included Russian nationalities into the entity. That is the background for the conflict today.
Per: The Russians have always viewed Georgia with less than positive view. They don’t forget what the most famous Georgian did nor was. (Stalin) Even Stalin treated Georgia, worse than most. That the Russians are licking their wounds and Slavic pride over kosovo and were looking always for ways of payback is a given. That they chose Georgia incursion to effect some payback and to send a clear message to other former Soviet Republics that Moscow is still the big enchilada in this part of the world is also a given. That Russia has sought to undermine in almost every way the legitimate elected government in Georgia and to have it replaced with a puppet pro Moscow one is also a given.. That Russia want to nix or control oil pipe line from Azerbaijan to Turkey is obvious. what kills your position is this quote from Asian times that defies credulity.
Really little Georgia with second rate weapons is going to threaten Russia? you got to be smoking something very powerful!!
While the fog of confusion and disbelief still lingers over Washington D.C., the early risers on this planet have already made their choice: Putin for US President.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH13Ag01.html
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH13Ag02.html
The analysis by Meir Javedanfar appears to have been made from poor data, and is overtaken by events. The opinions in this matter by the ayatollahs may perhaps stir curiosity, but I’m afraid they are not much more relevant than those of Mugabe.
Iran and The South Ossetia Question
By: Meir Javedanfar
Denton:
The attitude to Russians you reveal in the above statements, have an uncanny resemblance to classical Antisemittism.
Since you do not believe in what I say, I recommend that you read this comment to the events in Georgia:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH12Ag02.html
Mr. Halkin, I bet you support giving the Basque people their own country, and why not let the Catalans leave Spain, how about Wales and Scotland leave the United Kingdom, How about the Ruthenians in Eastern Europe, and let us not forget Quebec, they should be free as well, and how about every single little tiny group in the world get their own little country and all the current countries of the world be dissolved. This article shows very little insight to the history of Georgia, it is all well in good to support self determination, but Georgia suffered years under Russia, and now Russia is steam rolling them again. Maybe the article should talk about how Russia brutally tried to Russianize people, or how the Russians starved the Ukranians. Outside countries have no right to get involved in th internal politics of another country, this article is a piece of trash trying to justify the Russian invasion of a sovriegn nation, how nice, lets let the Russian bully whoever they want.
Per, you are ignorant. There are no gangsters in Tblisi, the only gangsters are the thugs who run the Russian government. The Gerogian government was democratically elected after the Rose Revolution and Moscow has no right to get involved with the internal works of another country, even if part of that country is breaking away (look how Europe stood by and did nothing when the South tried for independence from the Union). The Russians are thugs and Czar Putin just damaged a pro-Western ally in the region. So guess what Per, your statement is ingorant of the region, so do not type until you learn about the country you are slandering with your lies about their government.
Thank you for posting this long needed correction to the cold war propaganda that dominates the West at the moment. I still believe, however, that the Georgian attack (“massacre”?) on Ossetinians which happened last Friday, when the media were focussed on Olympic Peace in Beijing, has been unduly exploited by the “Axis of Stupidity” in Washington D.C., in order to take focus away from their glaring failures in the Middle East, and let a new cold war against the still perfect enemy, Russia, serve the election campaign for McCain. I wish McCain all the best, but an artificial conflict with Russia to support the corrupt mafia gangsters in Tblisi will not help him in the longer run.