The questions below, are a small, inelegant sub-set of what should be a full array of questions that should be asked and definitively answered before Israel again demonstrates that every time it goes to the table,Israel gives up something tangible for something that is intangible– – in the future— that will be reneged upon– renegotiated –and then will be reneged upon, again. ( Every reader of this e-mail is fully qualified to add substantial questions to this very incomplete list.)
1. Every time the PA has made arrests… how long have the arrestees remained in jail? What happened to those who were arrested at the church of the Nativity?
2. What happened when Israel gave weapons to the Palestinian authority security forces? Answer: they were used against the IDF… the 1st murders occurred before Prime Minister Sharon’s famous walk on the Temple Mount.( Evidence shows that the 2nd intifada was planned well before PM Sharon’s walk. ) Shimon Peres famously promised: if they turn them( the weapons) on us we take them back (While this is not his exact quote––it captures his exact statement).
3. What happened to the enforcement of the PA promise to remove incitement from PA textbooks, the PA media, etc. This Palestinian authority commitment was given in exchange for tangible benefits that Israel promised and then delivered. This PA promise was never kept and resulted in this generation of Palestinian children being raised to hate Jews.
4. Murdering Jews leads only to a prison sentence. Further terrorism (murder,kidnapping,etc.) of Israelis is a successful strategy. When Israel, under pressure to “get the peace process back on track” ,urgently wants to resume the meetings, it will result in the worst murderers being released. It works over and over. It is successful.
5. When Israel pleads for meeting it puts Israel in an unfavorable bargaining position. If the PA (or any Islamic group) holds out — Israel will plead more and offer more. And then the PA (or other Arab group) can go to the meeting (not to negotiate but to raise non-negotiable demands — and to even add additional demands that they had not previously raised-which they are doing now.). Lt Col Howard
Netanyahu ready to free Palestinian prisoners in exchange for meeting with Abbas, sources say
By Barak Ravid, HAARETZ, Jul.09, 2012
Israel and the Palestinian Authority are negotiating over Israeli moves that would pave the way for a meeting between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and PA President Mahmoud Abbas.
According to two Israeli sources and two Western diplomats, who asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the issue, Netanyahu has expressed willingness to release initially some 25 Palestinian prisoners convicted of the murder of Israelis and another 100 prisoners by the end of 2012.
All four diplomats confirmed that Netanyahu’s representative, Isaac Molho, was representing Israel in contacts with the PA’s negotiations chief Saeb Erekat.
Molho and Erekat met last week in Jerusalem for several hours and have also spoken by phone a few times.
The Palestinians have set two conditions for a meeting with Netanyahu. The first is the release of 123 prisoners incarcerated in Israel since before the Oslo Accords. Most of these prisoners are Fatah members who have now been in prison for between 25 and 35 years, after being convicted of involvement in terror attacks in which Israelis were killed. The second condition is that the PA security forces in the West Bank be supplied with new weapons.
Israel said any gestures it takes would have to be implemented over a period of a few months.
The Israeli sources and the diplomats said Netanyahu is apparently willing to begin a gradual release of the prisoners the Palestinians want freed, beginning with 25 and releasing the rest in four groups by the end of the year.
Netanyahu is also said to be willing to provide weapons to the Palestinian security forces, particularly because Israel’s defense establishment supports such a move.
Over the past weeks, the PA’s security forces conducted a major operation in the northern West Bank, arresting hundreds of Fatah activists who had joined the PA security forces after being pardoned by Israel, but then returned to criminal activities. The PA also confiscated numerous illegal weapons.
Netanyahu wants the new weapons to be provided gradually to the PA; for every old or unusable weapon returned to Israel, the Palestinians will receive a new one and ammunition, which Jordan has agreed to supply.
Israel would then be prepared to consider allowing the PA to take delivery on a number of armored vehicles that Russia donated a few years ago to the PA, which have since been in storage in a base in Jordan.
Israel has refused a Palestinian request that machine guns be mounted on the vehicles.
Netanyahu has also proposed an improved mechanism for cooperation between the finance ministries of Israel and the PA, to streamline the collection of taxes which Israel collects on behalf of the PA in keeping with bilateral agreements. In this way, the PA will receive another NIS 50 million a month, which it desperately needs.
The Palestinians are at this point said to be in no hurry to agree to Netanyahu’s proposal; they are concerned that after the initial stage of prisoner release Israel will find excuses not to carry out the other four. The Palestinians also say Israel’s proposal for the exchange of old weapons for new ones is “humiliating,” and does not meet their security needs.
Netanyahu’s office denied yesterday that negotiations were underway with Abbas over a meeting in exchange for a prisoner release or other gestures. However, the premier said last week during a meeting of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee that he could see the Palestinians were increasingly ready for talks with Israel, even if they would not be defined as diplomatic negotiations per se.
Talks between Erekat and Molho are ongoing ahead of U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s visit to Israel next Monday. This will be Clinton’s first visit to Israel since September 15, 2010, when she, Netanyahu and Abbas met at the prime minister’s residence in Jerusalem. The talks have been stalled since that meeting.
The United States and Israel believe that a Netanyahu-Abbas meeting and Israeli moves could create an atmosphere in which Abbas is less likely to approach the United Nations once again in September with a request to receive the status of a non-member observer state.
Abbas also met in Paris with French President Francois Hollande and with the European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton, as well as with the foreign ministers of Germany, Britain, Holland and Norway.
Molho himself met a few days earlier with French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius. He also met with Ashton in Brussels and with British Parliamentary Under Secretary of State Alistair Burt in London. Molho presented the “package” Israel is offering the Palestinians to all these officials, and asked that pressure be brought to bear on Abbas to accept it and meet with Netanyahu.
@ Tony Jacobs:
Hey Tony,
I’m glad we agree on the fact that Israel’s present leadership is not acting in our best interests and something must be done.
I was wondering if you had any facts which contradict my theory that Bibi has sold out? (I understand that from an emotional standpoint, it is very difficult to accept that our leaders are traitors, as it adds stress to our lives and forces us to act on this belief. But just as I see all top Republicans and Democrats as traitors to America, so I see all top Israeli leaders as traitors. Any Israeli leader who supports continuing Oslo is clearly a traitor. It cannot be said that they don’t have enough information about the Oslo process anymore.)
Is this theater of the absurd America’s final stranglehold over Israel? Or does Obama have Netanyahu by the you-know-what because of Iran? Is the US demanding that Israel do this lethal release of murderers in exchange for their possible cooperation against Iran? How do we label this particularly cynical chapter in the American Israel Arab conflict?
What an exercise in futility! The Arabs don’t want peace and will never do any of the things they have heretofore promised to do. When will the Israeli government realize that giving in to Abbas only proves to him how weak the Israelis are?
President Schmuck
Israeli leaders always act like they have been conquered by Muslims and must submit, submit, submit.
Israeli and other Western leaders are endangering not only Israel, but the entire Free World.
Israel’s constant surrenders to global jihad is immoral and EVIL.
Is this leadership?
While browsing other media I found this:
Has MK Katz thrown in the towel? Apparently yes, in principle.
So, let’s keep this in mind, folks:
The dismantling of Jewish land recovered in 1967 has been a fully cooperative effort at the national and international level.
In Israel it has consistently (not a coincidence) included the cooperation of the alleged Right Wing.
No further comment………Just my usual call for settlers to set up an independent Yesha organization to defend their rights and advocate for sovereignty. Your politicians and your top “grassroots leaders” are hopeless… The whole lot. It’s time for the people to be heard.
@ Tony Jacobs:
IDF CREATING ARAB VILLAGE ON JEWISH LAND (INN – July 9, 2012)
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Tony Jacobs write: “Israel is screwed, whichever one of us is right.”
Indeed. Facts speak for themselves.
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PLEASE NOTICE: It took three years for someone TO GET SOMEWHAT SERIOUS about this.
Which leads us to wonder about the effectiveness and freedom of action of the local grassroots leadership………
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Prosecutors to Probe Land-Use Enforcement in Jerusalem (INN, February 27, 2012)
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The talks about talks is nothing but a game to keep Jews distracted, while authorities at all levels are busily setting up the Palestinian state.
It appears that Israeli authorities and the PA have reached a tacit understanding.
Israel offers, the PA demurs. Time passes. The PA builds its army, infrastructure, etc. Israel builds a fence. Negative PR against Israel continues to mount. Israel disengages. The Arabs get their state. No need for the Arabs to promise anything. No need to dismantle the settlement blocks and pay compensation. Terror will persuade settlers to relocate at their expense.
The Likud-Left coalition remains intact.
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Not the end of the story by any means.
The endgame is the complete dismantling of Israel.
But that’s another story.
So far the Palestinian leaders (any and all factions) are willing to die for the destruction of Israel. They have no intention to die for establishing peace with Israel. This is all about Islam.
Simcha Said:
Simcha, I can’t agree with your conspiracy theory, I just think he’s sold out Israel’s medium to long term future for his own short term hold on power.
Sadly, it means that Israel is screwed, whichever one of us is right.
The answer is much more simple than any proferred above.
Bibi has simply sold out to foreign interests to continue the ‘peace process’ and therefore the destruction of Israel.
Bibi belongs to a group called the Council on Foreign Relations which stands for one world government under the UN (and run by the international banking elites).
Israel must be stripped of its Jewishness in order to merge into the New World Order, and if this can’t be accomplished, then Israel will be destroyed to further the NWO.
Bibi sold out his country for advancement, glory and riches. His part in the play is to pretend to be a right-winger, and therefore, as a right-winger, he has the security credibility to make suicidal concessions all the while acting tough and right-wing.
This theory explains every single move he has ever made.
Ignore or ridicule at your peril
“Shimon Peres famously promised: if they turn them( the weapons) on us we take them back (While this is not his exact quote––it captures his exact statement).”…..Why has this guy not been declared ‘incapacitated’ yet?
Canadian Otter Said:
Amen to that.
4infidels Said:
I absolutely agree with almost all you’ve written. Only Gaza is a bit of a problem. I developed a hatred of the place when I served there in the first Intifada and would really like it if no Jew had reason to go there again.
This is like Alice In Wonderland. If this US administration was truly Israel’s friend, they wouldn’t be strongarning and blackmailing Israel.
In an ideal world, instead of Bibi making goodwill gestures to lure a holocaust-denying, mass-murder planner to the negotiating table, he would be telling Obama that he will only consider talks, once the USAF take out Iran’s nuclear facilities.
Unfotunatrely this is not an ideal world, and Obama doesn’t have Israel’s back, he has his hands round its neck.
G-d willing, President Romney will be a different kettle of fish.
Does he actually want negotiations, or just the appearance of wanting negotiations?
If BB’s brother or kids were murdered by a Pali terrorist would he still release them for a meeting with the planner of Munich Olympic massacre of Israeli athletes and a Holocaust denier?
maybe he would!
He is a weak sociopath and psychopath. No ideals nor morals no concern for anyone but himself and those closest to him. he is an egomaniac that seeks power for it’s own sake and the financial rewards during and after his term of office has expired. I predict he will return to America shortly after he leaves office..
Just ONE question: Why would it be in Israel’s interests at all to give up land?
Give us ONE GOOD HONEST REASON.
That’s all.
That’s one question that I have never seen answered to anyone’s satisfaction.
Readers of this website and Israelis in particular know all about the consequences of surrendering land to the Arabs.
Aside from the fact that international law and history itself prove the land belongs to the Jews.
So the discussion SHOULD NOT BE ABOUT HOW TO GIVE UP THE LAND, or HOW MUCH OF IT, or UNDER WHAT CONDITIONS, but WHY GIVE IT UP AT ALL?
And please, no vague talk about “peace” and all that. Muslims can’t even get along with each other. Or with the rest of the world.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
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This whole thing reeks of blackmail. Like the truce with Egypt. Give us all of Sinai, with all its resources, and we’ll give you a truce until the next regime change.
The above column is a typical example. The PA won’t do anything unless Israel pays a bribe at each stage of the pre-negotiations.
Of course those who want to partition the country will play up the theme of “pleasing the international community”. All part of the Land Swindle against the Jews.
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It is extremely disturbing to watch how the Israeli government is trying so desperately to maintain Fatah on life support so as to keep up the pretense of a “partner for peace” to sign along the dotted line.
First, Abbas is no statesman. He is the financial mastermind of the 1972 Olympics Massacre who has never faced justice for his crimes. And he continues to glorify terrorists who massacre Jews.
I cringe with disgust every time I see an Israeli official shaking hands with Abbas and smiling for the camera.
And second, it’s obvious to everyone that the PA is unstable, teetering on the verge of being replaced by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, or whichever group will manage to take power. Aside from the fact that Fatah shares their goals, although by a more circuitous method.
The future Islamic State of Palestine will not be a beacon of democracy in the Middle East, but just another extremely dysfunctional, murderous entity.
Worse. WHEN they engage in terror against Israel, kidnappings, and all the things that they do so well, Israel will be helpless.
Just as Israel is helpless regarding Iran.
Just as the US is helpless regarding Syria.
As long as a these regimes have a Protector, particularly one with nukes, Israel won’t be able to retaliate. Much less with the UN scowling at Israelis for merely daring to breathe.
So, for Pete’s sake. Enough of this Land for Peace. If only out of respect for the Israeli people’s intelligence. Put a stop to this swindle once and for all, and extend sovereignty over the land.
So Israel, which controls the land that the Arabs want, and has the legal, moral and historic rights to that land, and the military strength to hang on to it, is making the concession of freeing the murders of Jews…so that the Arabs will discuss the possibility of the Jews giving them land in exchange for a promise of peace, a peace for which they require the release of terrorist murders in order to even contemplate.
Something is really wrong here. Of course, the fact that the whole world is pressuring Israel is pushing Israel toward these suicidal talks. But we have to know by now that concessions, giving up land and engaging in “peace processes” only makes Israel more isolated and its enemies more convinced that it will one day be defeated and destroyed. Why? Because the more Israel talks of negotiating land for peace and makes theses concessions in the face of absolute Arab intransigence and hatred, the more the rest of the world (and Israelis/Jews themselves)comes to believe that Israel must be guilty of stealing someone else’s land, otherwise why would the winner of a defensive war give up land to the aggressor, especially when the aggressor has no legal right to it and never had a state of any kind on that land.
Enough! Judea, Samaria, Gaza and the Golan belong to Israel, now and forever. And if Egypt starts another war, they should lose the Sinai forever. The Arabs and Muslims don’t want peace; they want the destruction of Israel. So why do anything that puts them in a stronger position to accomplish that goal?