Natural Selection among Jews

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1. Ted spam machine got my latest comment.

2. Second Aliyah – Wanted to establish a Jewish culture in our own country. Yes the leaders were socialists. They passed on to the kibbutzim values. Kibbutzim learned to value, getting along with the other people on the kibbutz (being sociable), hard work, smart people and brave people who would defend the land.

   At the initiative of the Zionist Organization’s newly-created Palestine Office, agricultural schools were established, and some of the students of these institutions went on to found “kvutzot” (sing. “kvutza” – communal settlement), the first of which was established at Degania on the Sea of Galilee in 1909. The centrality of labor values can be seen in the formation before the First World War of three socialist Zionist parties: Poalei Zion (Borochovist), HaPoel HaZair (Gordonist) and the Non-Partisans, who advocated the establishment of a workers’ union for all workers in Palestine. Among the activists of these parties were those destined to become some of the country’s most illustrious leaders: most notably Itzhak Ben-Zvi and David Ben-Gurion. The principle of Jewish self-help was extended to the area of defense with the creation of “HaShomer”, the Watchman, an association of Jewish guards set up in 1909 to defend Jewish settlements. Members of the Second Aliyah adopted the Hebrew language and thus expressed their goal of creating a new Jewish culture in the Land of Israel. Even the urban sector received a major boost at this time: the new city of Tel Aviv was founded in 1909.

3. The Jews wanted to normalize. They thought that their was antisemitism because they weren’t like the goyim and they were stateless.

   You créate this divisdion between the Jews and the rest of humanity and thus you play into Antisemitism. Indeed using the Word “goyim” does set up a barrier.

   I ask you how could the Jews as a nation be like any other nation of people and why should they want to?

   Or how could the Irish be like say the Norwegians and why should they want to?

   The Jews were a nation who wanted their own nation state for very many reasons but central was to express their nationhood.

4. Bear Klein

   That is indeed an extensive article on Wikipedia but I doubt it will answer many questions. Ted Belman is proceeding on his usual tack of making confusion between the policies and program of Lenin/Trotsky and that of Stalinism. He and many others do this ALL the time and do it consciously because they are filled with hatred for Marxism and want to portray Marx as Stalin. Such crudity.

   For example in the Wiki article I read this which struck me as being significant: “Arab opposition increased as the Balfour Declaration and the wave of Jewish settlers to Palestine began to tilt the demographic balance of the area. There were bloody anti-Arab and anti-Jewish riots in Jerusalem in 1921 and in Hebron in 1929. In the late 1930s, Arab-Jewish violence became virtually constant, a period known as the Great Uprising in Palestinian historiography.

   This is the real difference with these Kibbutz people and it has nothing to do with their crude forms of pre-socialist thinking which are a million miles away from Lenin and Marx.

   Perhaps they were far closer to Tolstoyian crazed and totally discredited ideas than to Marx or Lenin.

   How could they face up to the political implications of the Jihad by retreating to Tolstoyism (if such a word exists)

   Rather it was necessary to have a political solution which was based on the Jews creating their own national state and defending that state, not creating a bunch of farms or anything else, although I do not oppose that in any way either. I oppose it if they say that is the answer to the issue of state power and what to use state power for.

   Anyway Ted belman what is Mapai? Can you point me to somebody who has studied and written about Mapai? You refer to Mapai so you must have some sources to follow.

5. Kibbutzim also continued to play an outsize role in Israel’s defence apparatus. In the 1950s and 1960s many kibbutzim were in fact founded by an Israel Defense Forces group called Nahal. Many of these 1950s and 1960s Nahal kibbutzim were founded on the precarious and porous borders of the state. In the Six-Day War, when Israel lost 800 soldiers, 200 of them were from kibbutzim. The prestige that kibbutzniks enjoyed in Israel in the 1960s was reflected in the Knesset. When only 4% of Israelis were kibbutzniks, kibbutzniks made up 15% of Israel’s parliament.[12]

   
   A very good history of the kibbutz past and present is found at:
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz

6. @ Bear Klein:I don’t disagree with the picture you painted. but as I understand most of the kibbutzim were aligned with Mapai.

   My comment is nevertheless true for much of the Jews. There was a belief that Jews were estranged from the land and it was necessary to return to the land. There was also a feeling among the communists or socialists that Jews should not be among the petite bourgeoisie. So I stand my ground.

   The Jews wanted to normalize. They thought that their was antisemitism because they weren’t like the goyim and they were stateless.

7. Ted, I lived on four kibbutzim and met many founders of kibbutzim.
   Some of these wanted to certainly make a better society but they did not want to be “like the gentiles”. They were Zionists who wanted a country for Jews. Many people came to kibbutzim not because they were socialists but it was very difficult to survive in Palestine and the early decades of Israel financially. These people stayed sometimes a short while and many times for years. Some never left.
   Orthodox Religious kibbutzim started as far back as the mid 1930s. In every kibbutz I lived on the Jewish holidays were celebrated in a communal manner.
   These people made many mistakes and found out generally socialism does not work well and communal raising of children is contrary to human nature. Many of these kibbutzim about 2/3rds have evolved to a more individual lifestyle. Yet many the adult children born on the kibbutz who moved out are now moving back home. The kibbutz is a great safe environment to raise children especially when one has their independence in work choice and can keep the money they earn.

   Kibbutzim also played a role in defining the borders of the Jewish state-to-be. By the late 1930s, when it appeared that Palestine would be partitioned between Arabs and Jews, kibbutzim were established in outlying areas to ensure that the land would be incorporated into the Jewish state. In 1946, on the day after Yom Kippur, eleven new “Tower and Stockade” kibbutzim were hurriedly established in the northern part of the Negev to give Israel a better claim to this arid, but strategically important, region.

8. @ Felix Quigley:
   Go ahead and challenge me. I believe that my statement is historically correct and accepted by all.

9. Is this not the second article that Israpundit editor has made an attack on the Jews who made the Second Aliyah?

   As in “with the intent of becoming “new Jews””

   I cannot write on the other issues above but if that is Ted Belman’s starting point then it needs to be challenged.

10. JEWISH TRADITION demands that we not relate to the descendants of Spanish “Anusim” and the Russian immigrants of Jewish descent as gentiles. While they are not Jewish and, of course, require the three steps demanded of all converts – circumcision, immersion in a mikve (ritual bath), and acceptance of commandments – they actually fall into a unique category called “zera Yisrael” (seed of Israel). According to some of the most prominent medieval sages, this designation means that while they are not Jewish, they do embody “the holiness of Israel.”

    Rabbi Tzadok Hacohen Rabinowitz of 19th-century Lublin, Poland, explains that Isaiah referred to zera Yisrael when he described the “lost ones” who would rejoin the Jewish people through conversion upon our return to our homeland. Since these Russian immigrants have “the holiness of Israel” and it has been foretold that they will return to Judaism, we must do everything we can to help them convert.

    “But what about the rule that a gentile must ‘accept the commandments’ as a prerequisite to conversion?” one might ask. “While the immigrants in question will surely fulfill circumcision and ritual immersion, they are not committed to performing all the commandments! Doesn’t Orthodox law require a verbal commitment to fulfill all the commandments prior to conversion?” The simple and straightforward answer is “no.” The greatest of rabbis never demanded this. The Talmud clearly requires only that we teach conversion candidates “some lenient and some strict commandments.”

    None of the great sages ever demanded that the conversion candidate fulfill all the commandments; this is a modern development.

    The candidates in question agree to fast on Yom Kippur, to refrain from eating leavened bread on Pessah, to recite the Kiddush prayer and light the candles on Shabbat night, and for those in the IDF, to risk their lives to protect the Jewish state (what greater mitzva can there be?). The classic texts are replete with sources permitting the conversions of these zera Yisrael immigrants based on their intention to observe these basic commandments, especially in light of the fact that we should be proactively seeking them out for conversion.

    ONE ADDITIONAL issue demands that we convert these immigrants immediately. If we don’t allow them to convert, these immigrants are going to marry our children anyway. They grow up together, go to grade school together, serve in the army together, study in university together, and thousands will inevitably choose to spend their lives together. And then, in the coming decades, Israel will be ripped apart with disputes regarding which citizens are Jews and which are not. Non-Jewish children will be raised as Jews, but will not be recognized as Jews by the rabbinate or the state.

    http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/We-need-to-embrace-zera-Yisrael

11. @ vivarto: Some what you suggest has started to happen,

    Shavei Israel reaches out and assists Lost Tribes and “Hidden Jews” seeking to return to the Jewish people. These include the Bnei Menashe of India, the Bnei Anousim of Spain, Portugal & South America, the “Hidden Jews” of Poland and others.

    The recent news that members of the Chueta community of Mallorca have been recognized as Jews by Rabbi Nissim Karelitz of Bnei Brak is certainly historic. Thanks to the hard work of Michael Freund and Shavei Israel, this will open the door to over 15,000

    people whose Jewish ancestors were forced to convert to Catholicism 500 years ago, helping them return to the Jewish people.
    http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/We-need-to-embrace-zera-Yisrael

12. Israel could not be so opposed to patrilineal descent if they were willing to let tens of thousands of Russian immigrants with a Jewish father and non-Jewish mother into the country. Yes, I know it still presents some issues – I have a cousin who had a Cyprus wedding because his bride was one such immigrant, but if these immigrants are willing to fight and die for Israel, they are already better Jews than most in the diaspora.

    I also agree that the Anousim should be recognized, if not with no conversion, then with one that is not so onerous. To not recognize them is to give our medieval torturers an eternal victory.

    This is not, as some would think, primarily a numbers game. More liberal definitions of Jewishness would add perhaps 10% to the world’s Jewish population. It is not like we would all of a sudden be a faith with 100+ million members.

13. Reform or not. Rabbinic Law has changed throughout the ages and many of these so-called Halahic decrees have built a fence so large that it keeps out millions of Jews. Torah Elevators, Eruvs, Two days for holidays, etc. seem to me to be overkill. We need to teach our children the Jewish concepts of God not the Christian ones. They should help to understand what it means to Love your God with all your heart, soul and might. Much of the ritual (including European medieval garb) is in my opinion Hillul HaShem. The Torah never proclaimed such lunacy.

14. @ vivarto:

    What you describe basically is called “Reform Judiasm”.

15. Judaism need to be updated.
    The core values must be preserved, but the diaspora rabbinical inventions are no longer helpful.
    Get rid of the idiocy e.g. “Shabbat elevators” and other such nonsense.
    Also, accept as Jews children of Jewish father equally to children of Jewish mother.
    There is no evidence whatsoever in Torah that Matrilineal descent is commanded. It is a later invention and it is harmful to Judaism. The children of mixed heritage must have a choice, they can choose to be Jews, without any need for conversion.
    This alone will give us millions of good patriotic Jews who support Israel whether inside the country, or outside.

    Finally, recognize as Jews, Maranos, who have been forcibly converted in Spain and Portugal, but have heroically kept their Jewish tradition and lineage while in hiding.
    They are better Jews than many unconverted.
    Also, belief in Meshiach is not at all necessary to patriotism.
    The belief in the Messiah has no foundation in Torah (the 5 books of Moses).
    It is a reflection of Jewish longing to be liberated from foreign oppression. I am not against this belief, but it is not an essential value to Judaism, even if Rambam thinks so.
    After all Rambam was a diaspora Jew longing for the land.
    Israelis are in the land. Now time to kick out the defeated occupiers instead of waiting for the Messiah.