No good comes from interfaith dialogue, only harm

By Ted Belman

Commenting on a lecture at JCPA that I recently attended, I said:

… the lecturer said something that caught my attention. He said that the Board of Deputies of Br Jews put out a joint statement with their Muslim equivalent. He said he agreed with the statement but not its timing. Since I reject interfaith dialogue, I asked him what he agreed with. He and the British macher he had in tow defended the dialogue and argued that good things come out of it. I pressed them on the matter and they gave no satisfactory reply. I argued that no good can come from it but that it is harmful as it co-opts us to dialogue rather than to fight or challenge. I certainly opened up a can of worms. This mentality is part of the problem.

I have now received the Joint Statement. A cursory reading might suggest that it is innocuous. Melanie Phillips thought otherwise and wrote a scathing attack:

The Board of Deputies last week crossed a line. It stopped being a community embarrassment and became instead a positive menace.

It proudly announced an “unprecedented” joint statement with the Muslim Council of Britain. This said the Middle East conflict should not poison community relations. But it also condemned the “targeting of civilians”. The omission of who had supposedly done this targeting implied the Board blamed Israel along with Hamas.

No, protested the Board, this obviously could only relate to Hamas since Israel never targeted civilians. The crucial point, it said, was that the MCB had condemned Hamas.

Oh dear; where to start? The MCB, closely associated with Jamaat-e-Islami extremists and whose affiliated groups often support the Muslim Brotherhood, would never single out Hamas for blame.
UK’s Jewish leadership has strengthened its enemies

The Board had enabled it to crow – falsely but plausibly – that the Jews had condemned Israel for war crimes. And the MCB could tell its own people it had not blamed Hamas, since the Palestinians were only civilians while all Israelis were military targets.

Worse still, the Board was boasting of its deal with a body which is a front for Islamic extremism and hatred of Israel and the Jews. Its past leaders have described Israel as “the Zionist terrorist state” and claimed that Hamas “stands for freedom”.

It reveres Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi, who has supported suicide bombings outside Britain and claimed the Torah permits Jews to spill others’ blood and seize their money and land.

In 2009, its then deputy secretary general, Daud Abdullah, signed the Istanbul Declaration, which threatened violence against Israel supporters and British troops.

Because the government views it with suspicion, the MCB is now careful to sanitise its language. Even so, its current secretary-general, Shuja Shafi, found it impossible to say on the Today programme that scrawling “Free Gaza” on a synagogue was antisemitic.

Notwithstanding, the Board claims “it gets you nowhere if you only make peace with your friends”. Really? Can we expect a historic Board rapprochement with Hamas? Or al Qaeda? Or Iran?

A clue to the Board’s idiocy lies elsewhere in the joint statement, which condemns both antisemitism and “Islamophobia” as if these were equal forms of bigotry.

This is a terrible error. While antisemitism is a true prejudice for which there can never be a shred of rational justification, “Islamophobia” is a catch-all phrase used to demonise anyone who makes a legitimate criticism of Islam or Muslims.

So while there may be some who unreasonably hate all Muslims, those who warn about the Islamic jihad or condemn Muslim attacks on women and girls or freedom of speech are condemned as “Islamophobic” to silence such criticism.’

Those who point out the virulent antisemitism in Muslim societies are similarly branded. And because the Jewish leadership is desperate to appease Muslims, it is – astoundingly – silent about Muslim antisemitism. Instead, it, too, demonises those who warn against Islamic extremism as “right-wingers” or “Islamophobes”.

The Board’s spokesman has ludicrously insisted it is right to oppose “Islamophobia” because “racism is racism”. It would appear that the Board doesn’t even understand that Islam is not a race but a religion.

The Jewish leadership has now invested legitimate criticism of Islam with a status equivalent to the most hateful prejudice in the world. It has thus helped silence criticism of threatening Islamic behaviour and made all in Britain more vulnerable to attack.

Similarly, by awarding a kitemark of respectability to the MCB, it has undermined all who struggle to defend Britain against Islamic extremism. A Muslim academic, Mohammed al Husseini, has expressed his sense of betrayal at the Board’s “collaboration” with the MCB.

All decent people, Jews and non-Jews – including truly anti-jihadi Muslims – need to stand shoulder to shoulder against Islamic extremism. Instead, the UK’s Jewish leadership has breached the defences and strengthened the foe.

Other reviews may be found here:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/stephenpollard/100284242/the-muslim-jewish-statement-of-unity-on-gaza-has-only-revealed-how-divided-the-two-faiths-are/

http://www.jewishnews.co.uk/angry-backlash-joint-muslim-jewish-statement/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28962631

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/123091/board-deputies-approves-controversial-muslim-council-britain-statement

I replied to the lecturer who made the remark and who supplied me with the links:
Thanks for the Joint Statement and the links. I read them all.

I am saddened how such an advocate for Jews such as your self can maintain that it is the “right statement” save for its timing.

I am also disappointed that Stephen Pollard is Editor of the Jewish Chronicle wrote in his Telegraph piece ” And it has meant that instead of a focus on anti-Semitism and Islamophobia in the UK – two scourges of our time –”.  I know of no evidence that Islamophobia even exists let alone connected with antisemitism as a scourge of our times.  Antisemitism is definitely a scourge of our times. And so is Islam.

Of course I agree with Melanie Phillips and can’t improve or her critique.

But I ask of what value was putting out a joint statement with a defender of one’s enemies. What good can possibly come from it?

Meanwhile the BoD gave respectability to the MCB which is unwarranted.  It would have been better if the BoD named names and put the blame or condemnation where it belonged. Instead the Joint Statement silenced them and whitewashed the BMC. You can’t paper over the differences. Why pretend our values are shared. They aren’t.

It may be true to say that both Jews and Muslims want “peace” but the Muslim definition of “peace” says that peace will only come after Islam rules the world. For them, there will be no peace til then.

Leslie Wagner said that much good has come from the dialogue but was unwilling to defend his thesis. Too bad.

October 27, 2014 | 115 Comments »

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50 Comments / 115 Comments

  5. @ mar55:

    Mostly sitting by my desk top because its’ the only position that makes no contact with the back of by head and neck. When I don’t move my head in any direction there isn’t that much pain only when I move it or touch it…

    I don’t think I would be getting much rest were HB ever to come… she wouldn’t either. 🙂

  6. @ yamit82:
    Where are you? I hope you are resting. At least a little bit. Are you still in pain? Every day it will decrease.
    Feel better and do not go running after Dagmar. HB is going to go there and make you rest.Be careful.

  7. @ bernard ross:
    Bernard, you do not have “ANOSOGNOSIA” it was just a thougt.
    A couple of years ago, before having surgery I interview the anesthesiologist and ask him to be careful with the doses of anesthetic since because of my age I needed all my neurons. Well I had a good anesthesia but when I went home I noticed I was loosing my memory. After a few months I went to the doctor and requested to be seen by a neurologist. The thought of Alzheimer had me worried. Well, it turned out to be a false alarm. After a few tests
    all what he could find is having a temporary lost common after 40. I temporarily forget where I put my car’s keys.
    Now I put them in my purse as soon as I remove them from the car. It is common and he said that it also happens to him. Other than that I have a better memory than most people. Do not worry. Just enjoy life. Every day is a gift.

  8. @ yamit82:

    “[M]ay you enjoy a healthy 50 more without any signs of ‘ANOSOGNOSIA’…”

    Too late, alas

    — that horse has been out of the barn for a good 30 years, at least (probably more). Appears to have been a daylight robbery. . . .

    @ yamit82:

    “[A]ctually the condition reminds me strongly of someone else, guess who?”

    To a true psychobabbler, EVERY condition “reminds [him] strongly of someone else.”

    “I go for Tourette Syndrome”

    But then, YOU go for whatever whacked out malady or mania comes down the pike to explain what you can’t grasp — much less, comprehend. The list is, by now, long & tortuous.

    “Only cure frontal lobotomy.”

    This from the man whose personal motto is

    — I’d rather have a bottle in fronta me than a frontal lobotomy.

  21. @ yamit82:
    thanks, Yamit,it was actually a couple of weeks ago, I am Libra.
    70 is the new 50, that’s what I tell the ladies.
    actually the condition reminds me strongly of someone else, guess who? 😛

  31. the phoenix Said:

    Is it really not clear to anyone that there are no righteous ones in this accursed cult named ‘Islam’?

    she is funding the thesis that “we are the sons of apes and pigs”, the euros do the same, they set the example and point the way.

  32. @ mar55:
    Thank you for your very generous compliment. I too enjoy this forum. People here have a wealth of different experiences which I find very interesting and informative. Strong ideas are expressed and supported. This is not a place for the ignorant: experience, knowledge and culture abounds here. Although there is a lot of agreement there is also disagreement and the willingness to advance other perspectives. I find folks here to be strong willed with the experience to back it up. I have learned a lot from my fellow posters here, which is why I keep coming back. This is not just an amen chorus of right wingers; ideas and situations are discussed and, unlike many forums, evidence and support is offered for arguments. People here are not afraid to state non PC arguments and give the reasons for it. No one here is in the box, and personally, its a set of interesting people who are worth listening to, including you. I find your observations of posters here enlightening. 🙂
    BTW I just turned 70

  33. Nobel Prize winner Malala Yousafzai donates $50,000 for UN schools in Gaza

    So what is Malala buying? More rockets fired at Israeli civilians. More genocidal jihadi bloodlust from “Palestinian” children in these schools. By this action she is proving to be as worthy a Nobel Peace Prize winner as Yasir Arafat.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/10/nobel-prize-winner-malala-yousafzai-donates-50000-for-un-schools-in-gaza

    Is it really not clear to anyone that there are no righteous ones in this accursed cult named ‘Islam’?
    This ridiculous charade and myth of the moderate musloid is just that:
    A myth!

  35. @ mar55:

    “Even dweller who I will say only his good qualities. He has had and excellent education from early childhood. Very intelligent. “

    But those aren’t his good qualities.

    Those are only possessions.

    Like a pretty face, or a thick stock portfolio, or a talent for dancing, or a fancy car.

    And ‘even’ dweller has possessions.

    His “good qualities,” however, lie elsewhere.

  37. @ the phoenix:
    I have noticed over a period of time that you are a very
    sensitive to other people.
    A young man with who always tries to do for other people.
    To please in many ways. You also likes music and, must have
    a good ear for music and perhaps play an instrument. Excellent taste in music and probably a classical music lover. You have a good sense of humor and make people laugh. You are definitely a generous person.
    I loved the selection of Yehoram Gaon. He has a lovely voice and a very soft and beautiful delivery and phrasing.
    Thank you.
    There are very nice people in this forum and all have special qualities. HB, you, BR, Dove, what happened to her
    it is as if a bug had bitten her. I love Laura who does not visit us very often now and of course yamit82. Mr. Samuel is knowledgeable and very direct, to the point. How about Arnold Harris. He does not take any prisoners and I love that. Like General Patton. Even dweller who I will say only his good qualities. He has had and excellent education from early childhood. Very intelligent. What he does with that intelligence? I would not say. There is Ted, who I think he has Job’s patience. This is a lovely place and the best of all is: we all, as you so well put it
    share the same ideas. I love how Bernard Ross writes. I have an idea and do not dare to put it in writing because I cannot say it probably clear enough. I’ll try anyway and ask B R for help if it is possible.
    The instincts come from old age. I’m 75 years old unlike you, honeybee, yamit82 and others who are young.
    With you, I always saw you as a clever young man who lightened the forum with your humor, You also tell it as you see it. That is honesty. I hope you go to live in Israel and we can all meet in Jerusalem next year. and remember, when feeling a bit blue try thinking that time will heal everything.

  39. @ mar55:

    Dear, dear mar,
    To say that you have made my day and put lots of sunshine in it would indeed be a mild understatement. I firmly believe, that through all the comments posted by all of us on IP, there are trickles (and sometimes real torrents) of the “real person” behind the screen persona that are coming through.
    A truly sensitive person, would pick on these traits, and have a natural affinity towards that poster, for they seem to share similar values and speak the same language.
    (It goes without saying that i am NOT referring to political or ideological views, for it would be safe to say that 99% of us share similar core beliefs.)

    Indeed you did pick on my ‘state of mind’, lately which only goes to strengthen the point I made earlier. And I am totally not surprised. It only points to a connection, which EXISTS, and it is manifested by caring words of encouragement such as those you addressed to me.
    Furthermore, I dare say, that even if not said in so many words, similar sentiments do exist mutually between quite a few other posters…
    I hope you’ll enjoy this song. ( It is performed by the same singer Yehoram Gaon, that sang the ladino ballad that you liked ,[ abre tu puerta cerada] )

    http://youtu.be/DgvmC-F5jsE

    I was in Paris as well as Rome
    I saw the seven wonders of the world
    The North Pole as well as the south…
    But there is no place like ERETZ ISRAEL
    ….

  40. @ the phoenix:
    phoenix, You left us and after you came back you have been a little distant from me. You used to make me laugh with your comments. Now you sound a little older and a little somber but, do you have to ignore me? I like you and your comments. We all be talking to our Boss. Everything is going to turn out well. I do not what ails you but remember times heals everything
    Be well and take care.

  41. @ honeybee:
    I’ll be praying for him and also for you. I ask G-d Almighty to take good care of him. May HaShem’s hands be the surgeon hands. May G-d give you trust in Him and the strength to be calm and free of um-needed worries. May G-d bless both of you and keep you in His care. Amen.

  42. honeybee Said:

    @ mar55:

    Yamit82 is have surgery tomorrow. Keep him in your thoughts.

    Whoa camel whoa!!!
    May God guide the surgeon’s hands and grant you a quick and speedy recovery!!!
    I’ll take a long walk in the leaf-less forest tomorrow and have a heart to heart talk with the Big Boss…
    R’fuah shlema u’miyadit.
    🙂

  50. honeybee Said:

    Who wants to be pestered by a Bee on a picnic.

    Depends on the Bee. I prefer Honey Bees and only one Special, very Special Honey Bee….. One who makes a killer “Tunnel Fudge Cakes”. Not every Bee can make those and make me smile and laugh too.