By Stuart Winer, TIMES OF ISRAEL
The Palestinians are negotiating statehood with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 lines, and the talks are making headway, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas told officials from his Fatah party, according to an Israel Radio report Monday.
Abbas said he agreed to July’s resumption of talks “only once he’d received an official US guarantee that negotiations would be on a two-state solution based on the pre-1967 lines,” the report said. Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had emphatically refused Abbas’s demand, ahead of the talks, to publicly state that negotiations for a Palestinian state would be based on the pre-’67 lines, and the United States has not made public any assurances it may have made on the issue to Abbas.
Abbas also reportedly told the Fatah officials that the Palestinians are maintaining their demand that East Jerusalem be the capital of a future Palestinian state, a condition he called a “red line.”
Israel’s President Shimon Peres said Monday that Netanyahu had made a “strategic decision” to seek a two-state solution with the Palestinians. Netanyahu wanted to ensure Israel’s Jewish majority, and to prevent a single, bilateral state, said Peres.
In their negotiations over the past month or so, Israel has presented its overall position on the core issues and the Palestinians are preparing a response, the report quoted Abbas as saying. The talks have reached a “review of positions,” he reportedly said, without elaboration.
Meetings between Israeli and Palestinian envoys have taken place “continuously since final status negotiations resumed on July 29,” US State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said Sunday in a written statement.
“The negotiations have been serious, and US Special Envoy Martin Indyk and his team have been fully briefed on the bilateral talks and also participated in a bilateral negotiating session,” Psaki added. “As we have said in the past, we are not planning to read out the details of these meetings.”
Israeli and Palestinian negotiators have been tight-lipped about the talks, refusing even to disclose when and where they are held.
According to the radio report, however, Abbas confirmed for the first time that Israel agreed to release 104 Palestinian prisoners on condition that the Palestinians don’t appeal to international organizations about statehood, and as a goodwill gesture to help restart negotiations.
The first 26 prisoners, almost all of whom were convicted of killing Israeli soldiers or civilians before the 1993 Olso peace accords, were released on August 14. Abbas added that during coming negotiations the Palestinians will ask for the release of a further 250 prisoners.
Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah said on Sunday that Israel may be ready to release more Palestinian prisoners soon.
“It is possible that the second batch of pre-Oslo prisoners will be released before the end of this month,” Hamdallah said according to the Palestinian Ma’an news agency.
OK. No one says it and the idea of a shadow government was not as credited above.
Anyway nothing doing as embarking on such enterprise would require strong inner fiber as the unJews will come down like flint on anyone taking such logical transition step.
The only solution is REVOLUTION. Will it happen? No!
We Jews are devoid of a true National soul. What no one ever abandoned formally in thousands of years, after the “israeli demikratiahh” was fabricated, most was abandoned starting with Har Habait and following with special assignments in Hebron, etc.
Knee jerk momentary eruptions do happen from time to time but that hardly last for a full military campaign. Never did we completely defeat the enemy.
In fact, most of the perennial putrid “leadership” consider the Islamic enemy, their “partners”.
@ mar55:
Your reply is also very cogent. I recall reading from one of Prof. Paul Eidleberg’s papers that even “Party Boss” Ben Gurion was fed up with the corrupt party list system Israel had in place after independence, but his fellow MKs didn’t want to lose the perks that came from not having to be directly accountable to constituents. Without having read anything yet directly on the history of Israel’s Supreme Court, I can only surmise at this point that a similar situation must have been present in the founding of Israel’s Supreme Court. It could be said that Israel’s Supreme Court was not originally Post-Zionist. In this vein, it would be of interest to read the following link on Former Supreme Court President Aharon Barak. In particular my attention was drawn to this paragraph:
During the talks leading up to the Camp David accords in September 1978, Prime Minister Menachem Begin invited Barak to join the Israeli negotiating team. Highly esteemed by both Begin and Jimmy Carter (the latter was so impressed with Barak that he jokingly offered him a seat on the U.S. Supreme Court), Barak played an important role as legal adviser, drafter and intermediary. When Begin resisted adding the term “legitimate” to the phrase “rights of the Palestinian people,” it was Aharon Barak who convinced him by arguing, “Can there be any rights which are not legitimate?”(5) In 1978, Barak was named to Israel’s Supreme Court, and became the court’s deputy president in 1993. When Meir Shamgar retired in 1995, Barak succeeded him as Supreme Court president, a post he is slated to hold until he reaches the retirement age of seventy in 2006.
Aharon Barak’s Post-Zionist legal wordview in turn, is most certainly a direct result of being educated at Hebrew University, the seminal institute of so-called “German Jewish Intellectuals” led by Martin Buber and his acolytes who were members of the bi-nationalist “Brit Shalom, Covenant of Peace”.
Prof Eidleberg acknowledged that asking the Israel government to vote for district elections, would be difficult, “Like asking a chicken to vote for Colonel Sanders.” It would seem that most Knesset Mks go along with this self-appointing Judicial process for mutual corrupt self-interests. I recall hearing ( perhaps from Prof. Eidelberg) that we should start the reform process first with Knesset, and then work our through to reforming the Judicial nominating process. But it all starts with having a party pressuring for Knesset reform and a shadow government behind it to provide it international diplomatic cover from any internal efforts to suppress by entrenched interests.
@ yamit82: RE: NOT MUCH! What year and context did he say it? What year..? April 1, 2009.
and context did he say it? See Wall Street Journal April 1, 2009.
Robert_K Said:
NOT MUCH! What year and context did he say it?
@ the phoenix:
Go back to the post and see how whom I responded to corrected himself, because his prior claim was indeed absurd.
Note: One important point I left out is that Prof. Paul Eidelberg said that the Knesset system of proportional representation should be replaced with some form of district elections, where each Knesset member is individually accountable to his/her constituents.
BTW, Emininent Arabist and Islamic Historian Prof. Bernard Lewis when asked to compare the governmental system Israel is most like said the “Weimar Republic”. What do you think about that?
Re: What are you suggesting they learn? Learn to focus on completely overhauling (overturning) the current Israel governmental system: Prof. Paul Eidelberg has published a plan with concrete steps to accomplish this. See for example: What Is To Be Done?
FREEMAN CENTER BLOG
http://www.freeman.org/serendipity/index.php?/archives/150-What-Is-To-Be-Done.html
A few salient steps of this would be:
1) Form a “shadow government” with professional people heading committees that parallel government ministries.
2) Explode the myth that Israel is a democracy, the myth that legitimizes the Sharon [Bibi] government. (We must show that the –Sharon [Bibi,…] government is illegitimate!
a.Expose Sharon [Bibi,…] as a dictator and show how his dictatorship is facilitated by Israel’s flawed system of government.
b. Present Position Papers to convince any candid person that Sharon [Bibi,…] has betrayed the nation, that he stole the votes cast for him and his Likud party in the January 2003 election [2012 election,..], when the vast majority of the public rejected Labor’s expulsion-and-retreat policy misleadingly called “Disengagement” [Oslo, Realignment, ? The Kerry Plan?, etc..].” Moreover, show how Sharon [Bibi,..] manipulated the Knesset to enact that policy into “law.”
b. Once it is shown that Israel’s parliamentary system enables a prime minister to trample on public opinion with impunity, that is, once the myth of Israeli democracy is exploded before tens of millions of Americans, this will immediately impact Israel and the house of cards will come tumbling down.
c. This will not only defeat Sharon’s [Bibi’s, …’s] expulsion-and-retreat plan. It will (1) put an end to the suicidal policy of “territory for peace,” (2) relegate the Left to the political wilderness, and (3) prepare the grounds for a new system of government, one based on Jewish and classical democratic principles. Eidelberg has designed a Constitution for this purpose.
Prof. Eidelberg has always maintained that the only effective way to do this is to form a separate party [not Moshe Feiglin’s Manhigut Yehudit – a rump part of the Likud Party] whose whole raison d’etre is this. BTW,Moshe Feiglin call Prof. Eidelberg’s Book A Foundatio for Constitutional Democracy his Bible. By the way Moshe Feiglin treats this Bible must mean he considers himself a Reform Jew. All the rest of the so-called Nationalist [“right-wing”, “hardliners”] can’t be said to be much of an improvement over Moshe Fegilin. Same can be said for Bayit Yehudi.
Prof. Martin Sherman has also commented on how Israel is really ruled in the shadows by what he calls a trinity [triumvirate] of the media, the legal profession [judiciary] and acedemia and not by the PM and the Knesset. He has made similar to provide a Zionist as opposed to a Post-Zionist paradigm. See his columns in JPOST, for example.
This report Isn’t surprising. The TSS paradigm that is governing these talks is premised on the territory east of the 1967 lines, subject to some very minor land swaps, comprising an independent Palestinian state to be declared concurrent with announcing a TSS agreement has been reached.
If anyone is shocked and surprised by this report, exactly what did they think these talks were about?
@ Shy Guy:
Dear shy,
The point I was trying to make is indeed the division to the point of absurdity between us, Jews. There is the incessant ‘I am holier than thou’ attitude.
The quintessential shipwrecked Jew that builds a synagogue, in which he will never set foot.
The endless pettiness and nitpicking one’s arguments for technicalities (dwellerizing it, as it were…) instead of understanding what may have been the overall intention of the point made by the poster.
To a great extent, those of us here at israpundit, represent a microcosm of the Jewish world in Israel and in the galut.
Just because one does not have the obvious vast knowledge in Jewish history, Torah Talmud etc, that some posters are very obviously possessing, they should not be marginalized or mocked . I think that a helping hand would be more welcome.
Of course, not having the benefit of voice inflection and the time gap between posts is also contributing to potential misinterpretations…
Not need to further belabor the point.
My warmest wishes for a happy new year to you and yours.
the phoenix Said:
What is your point? I can take a guess but I’d rather you spell it out in your own words.
@ Shy Guy:
Thank you for substantiating my point, shy.
NormanF Said:
The part of Robert’s comment which Yamit is quoting is mainly aimed at those actually not at the top of the totem pole.
yamit82 Said:
What lessons – that the Arabs are hateful, savage, treacherous and brazen liars to boot? Israeli leaders know all this about them but they don’t care.
In the end, nothing will come of it.
Even if Israel gives Abu Bluff everything he wants, he will never sign the dotted line. He has no support for an agreement from his fellow Fatah leaders and he has no democratic mandate from the Palestinian Arabs to negotiate with Israel.
And Hamas is sure to block any agreement that might be reached. Israel is negotiating with an unelected dictator who represents no one but himself and any agreement made with him is not binding on his successor.
The so-called peace talks are a fool’s errand.
the phoenix Said:
DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!
Give the man a Kewpie doll!
Robert_K Said:
What are you suggesting they learn?
@ Robert_K:
I know this might be just another voice in the desert, but, this bs concept known as ‘democracy’, is doomed from the start since it includes two sides thrown in together in a zero sum game. This idiotic concept of ‘playing nice’, can NOT work. EVER!!
How can two wolves and a sheep ‘democratically decide’ (spit!!!) what to have for lunch???
Simplistically (and admittedly, with A LOT OF WISHFUL THINKING), the Arabs are kicked out of the land of Israel. Full stop.
It’s been done before 1000 times by just about EVERYBODY.
I truly do not believe the Arabs OR the world for that matter to be the problem.
The problem is the incredible division and lack of unity amongst the Jews.
The lack of outrage from the population gives credence to the fact that having bibbi and his ilk in power,is the population having the government it deserves!
Yidvocate Said:
“Baderech sheh’adam rotzeh lehleich, kach molichim oto.”
“In the path which a person wishes to transverse, this is the way [the heavens] will lead him through.”
Source: Tractate Mahkot 10:b
True on both the individual and national level.
We are truly the masters of our own misfortune!
Robert_K Said:
Are you advocating armed revolt?
Robert_K Said:
I think it stands for the caliber of the guns he totes. 🙂
Bibi, your nickname BB certainly doesn’t stand for backbone.
As for Israeli democracy: Vote left – get left. Vote right – get left. Bayit Yehudi, Manhigut Yehudit – infantile national-religious protest movements. Ignore Martin Sherman, ignore professor Paul Eidelberg. Legitimize Israeli sham democracy. The Israeli leftist elite will continue to trumpet the Orwellian demographic threat espoused by such friends of Israel as James A. Baker III, Barack Hussein Obama, etc.
Same old, same old. Moshe Feiglin, Naftali Bennet, Tzipi Hotovely, Danny Danon, … – When will they ever learn, when will they ever learn?