By Ted Belman
Things are not going well for the two-state solution.
Palestinian PM Fayed said that no agreement will be reached this year. The latest poll in the territories discloses that since the Annapolis meeting, Fatah is losing popularity. Hamas has taken centre stage with its breach of the Gaza border. Livni acknowledges that Hamas must be dealt with first before the peace process can succeed. Though some say the look of the final deal is known others say the parties are farther apart than ever.
An agreement looks so far away that David Landau, the Editor of Haaretz, told Sec’y Rice in December, that Israel wanted to be raped. The Left including Israel Policy Forum is lobbying the US government for an imposed solution.
Attempting to create two states on this small piece of land with the hatred and distrust that exists between the people is an impossible task, particularly when the Palestinians want to destroy Israel rather have their own state and Israel doesn’t want to accept the Saudi Plan.
The US and Europe want to find a solution to the conflict. Creating a 23rd Arab state isn’t the primary goal. Let us assume they abandon the idea of creating a Palestinian state. Instead they allow Israel to destroy Hamas, Fatah and the PA. Israel would collect all weapons and once again be in charge of the Rafah crossing. All UN agencies doing work in the territories including UNRWA, would be replaced by Israel. All check points would be removed and the fence taken down.
That’s the easy part.
The refugees living outside the territories should receive compensation and passports. They should be absorbed by other nations but not be allowed to return to the territories except in limited circumstances. This is key.
If resettling about 4 million refugees throughout the world is too problematic, the US should work with their allies, Jordan and Egypt to develop an alternative location. Both of them are threatened by a radical Palestine and have much to gain in cooperating. Perhaps Egypt can be induced to give the northeast corner of Sinai to Gaza, as a potential new state. The entire area should be under a UN Mandate, like the Palestine Mandate, only this time on different land and for the Arab refugees. The US could be the Mandatory Power.
The refugees still living in camps in Jordan, Lebanon and elsewhere should be resettled in this new land and then be put to work building the necessary housing and infrastructure. This could be a ten or twenty year project.
Now Israel, the US and the EU should agree to the following in Judea and Samaria.
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1. Israel could abrogate Oslo and annex Judea and Samaria.
2. Israel could remain a Jewish state
3. the Arabs living there could be offered generous compensation to leave and the EU and the US would accept them as refugees..
4. Perhaps they could be offered citizenship in Jordan or the the new Palestine Mandate.
5. Israel would re-educate the Arabs for peaceful coexistence.
6. At the end of a fifteen year period, Israel would enable the Arabs remaining to apply for Israeli citizenship subject to certain oaths, pledges and commitments.
At that time, Jews would outnumber Arabs in Israel by a margin of 3 to 1. It could remain Jewish and be democratic. With the removal of Palestinian Nationalism every thing would settle down in the new Israel and Israel could focus on removing any vestiges of discrimination.
This solution would be easy to implement. Furthermore removing 400,000 refugees from Lebanon would stabilize that country and she would be glad to cooperate. The same for any other country that got rid of its refugees. Egypt could be given a highway connection to Jordan from the Sinai and neither country would have to worry about a radical state on its borders.
Of course this would require the Arab League to give up the goal of destroying Israel. With or without their consent, the US and the EU could do it. And everybody would be better off.
We can learn from our mortal enemies!
Todays relevant NEWS.……..!
Jews are nice to corpses
Israel returns the corpses of two Palestinian terrorists who killed a 73-year-old, wounded forty in Dimona. Arabs never give Jewish bodies away, but only exchange them. Burning the Arab terrorists bodies covered in pig skins would do a better justice to killed, maimed Jews
Something good about Kassam rockets
Israeli FM Livni rejected the possibility of “peace” with Palestinians while Kassam rockets are being fired on Sderot.
Interior Minister: Wipe them out
Israel’s Interior Minister Sheetrit proposed that the IDF warns a neighborhood in Gaza, offers residents time to leave, and wipes out the neighborhood.
The first two steps seem superfluous.
Haredi growth 40 times the secular
According to State Comptroller, the number of pupils in ultra-Orthodox schools grew by 141% from 1992, while in the same period enrollment in state schools increased by mere 3.6%.
The Comptroller also noted the total lack of control over the school construction funds allocated by the government to haredim.
Oddly, the Jewish State’s Comptroller is also concerned about the supposedly inadequate school facilities for Israeli Arabs. Any number of schools is too much for the future terrorists
The palies in Gaza should not be given concern for their “humanitarian crisis” because their behavior is subhuman. They are worse than the worst animals. The same goes for all of their supporters and benefactors, including the US State Department.
BrandOatmeal
I look to what I call the nationalist camp. It consists of both religious and secular who believe in the Jewish people and our right to the land. The new party Hatikvah stands for this.
Did you know that 45% of the officers in the IDF wear kippahs or so I am told.
TED, I WOULD CONSIDER REPOSTING THE OLD MASTHEAD, THAT HERE IS ONLY A MILITARY SOLUTION
In blood and fire Judea fell!
In blood and fire Judea will arise!
I STRONGLY YOU AND ALL READERS TRY TO UNDERSTAND ALL THAT IS HAPPENING WITHIN THE FOLLOWING STORY: AFTER READING TAKE A FEW MOMENTS TO COGITATE, PLACE YOURSELVES IN YOUR MINDS IN THE POSITIONS OF THESE HELPLESS FORGOTTEN AND ABANDONED POOR SOULS AND THEN TALK TO ME ABOUT COMPROMISES, OF ANY KIND RATHER THAN DEFEATING OUR ENEMIES MILITARILY?
A SABBATH UNDER FIRE IN SDEROT..AND ITS AFTERMATH.
On Saturday night the 9th of February, two brothers 19 and 8 year old, Rami and Osher Twito, borrowed their mother’s credit card to go to the Sderot ATM machine to buy after shave lotion as a birthday present for their father.
Within moments, they were lying next to each other in a pool of blood on a Sderot side walk.
Pieces of their legs scattered on the street. One of Osher’s legs was immediately severed.
Osher’s second leg was shattered. Rami and Osher were running for their lives after they heard the RED COLOR siren. They didn’t have enough time to run for the shelter which was 100 meters away, knowing that they only had 15 seconds until the kassam missile would explode.
Tens of Sderots residents ran to help the boys. Then another siren went off, and they all ran for the shelter once again.. A few minutes later, a few residents started to scream to the crowd :
“ Let’s go block the streets!!” They started chanted: We want a military solution!
We want the army to do what’s right and to fight the enemy!”
There was utter despair on the people’s faces – helplessness of the fathers and mothers carrying their children.
What a Sabbath in Sderot, with 40 missile attacks fired at Sderot.
Thinking about Friday night. Sitting at a Sabbath dinner with the Gad Family. Hava Gad is the Sderot Parents Association spokeswoman A siren was fired while the soup was being served.
The whole family took cover in their hall way, which is the safest place in the house.
The missile fell across the street. A boom rocked the house. Hava collapsed. Tzfania her husband , a reserve military officer, leaned over Hava, calming her down. Their 9 year old son- Yanai played his own role supporting with his mother, calming her down,
A few seconds later another explosion. And then another one… It quiets down and everyone returned to the Sabbath table
And then another missile attack. Tsfania opened the back door for their puppy to hide for shelter in their hall way.
Hava, bent over eve more than before, said that she is going to throw up. Tsfania holds her tight
Yanai, once again comforting his mother, mentions, matter of factly, that on Friday morning a missile exploded in the soccer field next to their school, and that they were lucky that they weren’t allowed to go out, for security reasons…
As the meal finished, the children played games on the floor, and then, an enormous explosion…
This time, Hava screamed and collapsed on the floor, shivering… Tsfania went to the other room to get her a pill, and asked her if he should call an ambulance to evacuate her.
Yaani again hugged and kissed her, telling her that it fell a blocks away from here and that there is nothing to worry about… Yaani looked up and said that they should learn medicine in school, for cases like these… A fourth grader who sees himself as a paramedic at the age of nine.
Walking the streets of Sderot on the Sabbath afternoon, to get a feeling about what people are going through, a few brave children went out to play in the sunny beautiful day.
Every group of children had something had something to do with the rocket reality
A four year old, mumbling while playing next to the synagogue- ‘Tseva Adom, Tseva Adom’ “RED COLOR RED COLOR”…
And then there was the nearby Sderot Ethiopian community , where children were arguing with each other , debating , which school was hit more by the rockets… Children were playing with toys, throwing them up to the air, and yelling- “A Kassam!” and then make a noise of an explosion…
Watching these children, you think of the recent statement from Dr Roni Beger from Natal Trauma Treatment Center, that anywhere between 70%- 94% of the children in Sderot now suffer from PTS- Post Traumatic Stress Symptoms.
Dr. Adrianna Katz, head of the Sderot Mental Health Center, notes that most of these
Children are going to be affected for life…
And then there was the perspective of the experts –
Dr. Reuven Ehrlich, the head of Intelligence and Terror Information Center, visited Sderot last week and reported that over 8,000 missile attacks had occurred over the past seven years
Tzachi Hanegbi, chairman of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Security Committee, last Tuesday requested ten minutes of air time on the Voice of Israel Radio newsreel, where he demanded that the Israeli army kill the terrorists who give the orders to fire the missiles…not only the missile launchers. In other words, to kill Gaza’s political leaders who meet every Saturday afternoon for their weekly meeting, where they decide where and when to terrorize Jews.
For some reason, HaNegbi’s suggestion has not been picked up.
At the same,time, at least 800 homes here in Sderot have no protected rooms where someone can take cover during a missile attack. Prime Minister Olmert has vetoed the offer of a private philanthropist to fund to install these protected rooms. Why? Olmert’s office does not answer as to why he places 800 families in a life threatening situation in their own homes
On Thursday, the US State Department issued a strong statement to warn Israel to show concern for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. A call placed on Friday to the US embassy to ask whether the US State Department would issue a statement about the humanitarian crisis in Sderot and the Western Negev went unanswered.
Meanwhile, not one Jewish group and not one human rights organization issued a single statement of protest or horror about our city under siege.
your suggestion as logical as you may believe gives no succor to those under attack and is reasonable only If we were fighting an enemy with a different mindset than those we are engaged against.
In blood and fire Judea fell!
In blood and fire Judea will arise
Bland Shalom; you are very up to date and astute in your analysis but;
“Once there was none to listen. . . now there are few who care to speak. . . .”
Perhaps the Arabs will overplay their hand, and provoke the West into real action against them; or perhaps an oilfield like that of the Persian Gulf will be found under Israel.
These are the most likely scenariosIt has always worked in the past!!
Shalom Ted & all.
I read the article and all the comments. Among the commenters, Ed D. seems to have come closest to the mark: The Arabs and Iranians have oil, which the US and EU need; Israel has no asset to compare with this.
As for the arguments about “moderate Arab” vs. “radical Arab”, this is a matter of the Arab psyche, not of politics. To the point, why do wealthy Arab states, who treat their “Pal” Arab Sunni Moslem brothers in the most inhumane way, refusing them citizenship and making them the world’s beggars, continue to “support” them in terrorizing Israeli civilians? And why do they cry loud and far about Pal terrorists getting their just deserts, but don’t raise a whimper when their co-religionists, both Shia and Sunni, are slaughtered in the thousands by Al Qaeda & its allies? There is no rhyme or reason to this. Nothing shows the insanity of it all, better than the sight of Pal Arabs cheering when Sadaam Hussein’s SCUDs were coming in AT THEM! These are people who praise their own children for their “virtue” at wanting to blow themselves and innocent passers-by to smitherings when they grow up. Words such as “moderate” and “radical” do not apply to people like this: they are utterly insane, and cannot be dealt with like sane people. One can only deal with them according to their animal instincts, like cattle. Ze’ev Jabotinsky recognized this fact, after a fashion, in “The Iron Wall”. If anything, Jabotinsky erred on the side of thinking the Arabs to be too reasonable. They are not reasonable: Their god did not say, “Come now, let us reason together”, as the God of the Hebrews did. Instead, he gave them a “holy book” that was little more than a manual of instruction for world military conquest. Because of this mindset, the Arab nations must be dealt with as a bloc, or herd. Bite at their heels with the right sheep dog, and they will stampede in any direction you wish.
So much for the Arabs. Let’s talk a bit about the Jews. Proposals like yours, Ted, are the sort of thing that prepared the Jewish people and moved them in such a way that Medinat Israel rose from the ashes after 1900 years of desolation. A key element of the early Zionist writers, however, was that they had to identify the group WITHIN JUDAISM that would actually carry out the venture. In the case of creating the State of Israel, that group was the “Westernized” or “Enlightened”, largely irreligious Jews. Today, you must also identify the group which is to carry out these proposals; because today, as then, Judaism (and Israel) is divided into sharply contradictory camps. Who will carry out this plan — or any plan, for that matter? Surely not the seculars, who have become post-Zionist; and I would laugh if you seriously thought the unpatriotic ultra-religious or the self-seeking Sephardim of Shas could be depended on.
That leaves the Modern Orthodox — a group which is barely holding its own as a minor segment of Judaism. Even at that, I question the loyalty of this group. Be that as it may, any appeal to action must primarily address the interests of this group — especially the most active element, the M.O. “settlers”. The proposal needs to be broad enough to appeal at least in part to those outside of this group, but it must especially appeal to them.
I cannot make a judgment about how successful such a strategy would be; I am simply comparing the present situation with an effort that succeeded in the past. Even while doing so, I am nagged by the thought of another effort which did NOT succeed: The Zealot rebellion of 70 C.E. The parallel between the Pharisaical Zealots of those days and the Religious Settlers of today is a little too close for comfort. The events of the Second Temple period turned as disastrously as they did, because Israel went to war without first trying to heal its internal divisions. Notice that I said “heal” — You can fight your enemies into submission, but you can’t fight your friends into friendship.
At the moment, I don’t see any effort to heal these divisions in Israel, nor any serious effort to address them. The Modern Orthodox, in fact, seem the most adamant of all in opposing the process: They think they can solve the problem by either outbreeding their opponents (which they haven’t shown the capacity for — that honor goes to the increasingly impoverished haredim), or miraculously turning their opponents into Modern Orthodox. Keep all those fedoras dusted off — you won’t find heads to put them on for a long time.
To sum it all up, I don’t see how the “mandate” proposal has much hope of taking hold among Israelis. That editor of Ha’Aretz was not too far off the mark, as disgusting as he was: Israeli Jews are far too divided to come up with decisive action, one way or another. Absent a genuine effort on the part of Jews, especially of the Modern Orthodox, to understand and cater to the opinions of their countrymen, about the only hope Israel has is to hold on until circumstances change. Perhaps the Arabs will overplay their hand, and provoke the West into real action against them; or perhaps an oilfield like that of the Persian Gulf will be found under Israel.
Or perhaps Elijah would come… but if he did, would anyone listen?
Things are not going well for a two state solution. However a one state solution is not at all a possibility.
Israel is in no position to abrogate Oslo and has no desire to annex the west bank.
The E. U. and America has no interest in accepting some 4 million Palestinians. Jordan has its hands full with close to 1 million Iraqis refugees. And so you may forget Jordan as a venue for this population.
Egypt is struggling with its own overpopulation problem. The last thing it needs is more people.
The Palestinians are no longer intimitated by the Israelis and Isreal has not got enough troops to controll a largely hostile population indefinitely . The peace process remains as an only option.
I’ve read everything and I concur the two state solution is unworkable in practice. Israel’s need for security and the Palestinian desire for independence are mutually exclusive propositions. Your idea is far from perfect but when even Israel’s Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger endorses it, there’s a good chance its going to be on the table once the Oslo-Annapolis paradigm has reached the end of the road – perhaps under a different Israeli government.
look we have a hundred mile border with egypt our southern command IDF undermanned and undertrained due to the fact that our brilliant strategists have pretty much discounted confrontation with Egypt. Mubarak is in his last years runor he has cancer and Egyptians don’t like his playboy corrupt son. noslem Brotherhood has been preparing for takeover of Egypt for years, whether they take over or not a new order will soon be in place in Egypt and they have all those expensive American toys with really no apparent eny to justify them with except Israel, while Egypt has a nuke program on Low burner it could be turned into full fledged one very easily. I also believe the Saudi arsenal is mostly for Egyptian use in the next war. I believe as well that the Saudis have a few nukes they got from the Paks as they financed the Pak Nuke program and Kahn was corrupt enough to give or sell some to the Saudis. Why would America sell the most sophisticated mil hardware To the Saudis that they have not the competency to use or maintain by themselves? besides the obvious need for billions into Mil. industrial complex of America? I predict another war sooner or later with Egypt. We need to keep their mil as far from the border with Israel as possible. Having Palis there only gives them the exuses they need to break the treaty of Camp David. Give a finger they take an Arm. That is another reason we can’t dump our pali problem on them as it will create a point of conflict between Israel and Egypt and the palis if not direct instigator could in any event be that catalyst of the eventual next war with Egypt. With the palis all under control of Egypt it will become between the two of the the flashpoint that may light the flame in the next war.
Egypt is already on our border. I just want them to give some land to the new Palestine Mandate.
The fuel of all terrorists and nationalist groups is the belief and hope that they will succeed. remove that hope and we could live with a small number of Arabs but if you cannot kill their hope then all must leave. I do not accept any proposition that would relinquish 1 inch of Israel to any foreign power or entity, that in the end will backfire as every other offer of compromise has. Egypt is our most dangerous existential enemy and you want to bring them literally within our borders and at a min. up to our INTL BORDER> I would call that delusional madness!!
Ted,
I agree with you. Anything that starts Israel down the road of annexing all biblical land and expeling all of the Arabs works for me.
They hate us anyway. Israel must take control
and start “a” process.
Kahane said :
“It is better to have a strong Israel that is hated by the whole world,
than an Auschwitz that is loved by it”
How’s that rumor McCain/Condy Rice Ticket hit you?
Avi
By the way: The targeting of Jews by the covenant of Hamas is ethnic cleansing – both ideologically and practically through their ongoing military campaign.
I believe that you are unclear on the term “ethnic cleansing.” Ethnic cleansing is targeting one ethnic or religious group selectively wiping them out. It is different from war which is what was declared by Hamas against Israel. In war, a country like Israel has a right and responsibility to protect its interests and its citizens. If Israel were ever to respond to the war visited upon its citizens by Hamas, then that is legitimate self-defense, the targets being Hamas and the supporters of Hamas who threaten the state of Israel.
We can classify the cleansing of Jews from Gaza as “ethnic cleansing” though that was done with the complicity of the ethnic group that was cleansed – an anomaly for sure. It was done to appease those who cannot live with non-Muslims for the sake of a peace which remains elusive (then and now).
It clearly depends on whom you regard as moderate. I believe that all Arab states are threatened with further extremism but that does not mean that there will be any upheaval or internecine war.
It will happen gradually and with the full backing of the current leadership. Those leaders who have been socking away billions will gladly leave with their piles of cash and go to some place like Britain where the Archbishop will welcome them with open arms to create the British Caliphate with the help of all that cash.
Those Arab leaders will leave their countries in the hands of terrorists and that will be fine with the State Department, the “Arab Street,” the UN, the EU, all Muslim nations and even the USA that will somehow massage the intelligence to prove that these nations are benign and in the capable hands of leaders who have the oil that the USA needs for survival.
I believe the term for this sort of thing is ethnic cleansing. The US, the European nations, and the UN would aggressively oppose such a scheme, and Israel can not simply kill off the terrorists by invading Gaza. I can fully appreciate the reaching for just such a solution but it is even less likely to happen as is the present plan for peace in the region.
Ted, “follow the money”. So long as the US & the EU imports oil from the Arab and other states, they will never go against them. So long as the US exports tons of stuff, such as technology, arms, food, clothing, etc., to them, they will never go against them. They keep playing one side against the other to keep a balanced agenda thereby preventing a massive war.
I agree with you regarding the overtaking of Gaza, casting out as many terrorist as possible, killing a many as possible by a very powerful force and deporting all survivors to whichever country they wish. I, also, agree with a complete takeover of the other territories, paying large sums for the land and deporting those who wish to leave. this, however, will not be possible so long as Israel hangs on the coat tails of the US and the EU in such a way as to be dependent on them. Israel must stand on her own two feet to mmake this work and must be done in a bi-partisan way for a united Israel.
I disagree. The radical regimes are not being threatened internally but the moderates are. That’s a key difference.
The differences between “moderate” and “radical” states have often been discussed in Israpundit. The general conclusion is that there is very little to distinguish radicals from moderates, and I must agree.
It is useful; however, to keep these terms if one has any hope at all that Arab Muslims in some sectors actually are willing to negotiate, out of self-interest, to bring the level of violence and insanity down to a controllable level. It is not in the self-interest of Iran, Saudi, Egypt or Syria to have a wild group of bin Ladens (the true Muslims as it were) running rampant and taking over the reigns of power.
It is also true that Israel cannot live with a moderate Arab world keeping the battles simmering for their own political and religious ends. The pain experienced by the recipients of an ongoing jihad is far greater than the costs to Arab nations to maintain and control a multi-pronged terror army that is often operating at cross-purposes and which could easily threaten its own benefactors.
The big question is how long can Israel will play into the hands of moderate states before it says enough is enough. If Israel takes real military action to end its death by degrees, the moderate Arab states risk having the radicals take over. This might not be such a bad thing for Israel, especially if the differences between the two groups are so minor and the fact that radicals will be more plainly be seen as pariahs in the eyes of the international community. But maybe not – Hamas soon became the darlings of the EU, the UN and others even if their donations to the “Israel terror campaign” are a bit down this year. Don’t worry, Hamas, next year promises more donations to your mass murder fund.
I agree with Gary’s analysis and Bills comment that the Arabs won’t go for it.
My proposal assumes they won’t. I wanted to point out that if the US and Europe did, it would be easy to implement.
Once Israel was made kosher by such agreement then even if the Arabs opposed it would make no difference.
The only question is whether the US and the EU combined can take such action in the face of the Arab opposition to it.
Perhaps the opposition would be less than you expect due to the threat to the “moderate regimes” posed by the radicals.
Assume for the moment that they went for it, the whole idea of the creation of a Palestinian state would not be on the international agenda. There would be another paradigm. That’s why I say that things will settle down in the new Israel. There will no longer be agitation for a state or a bi-national state. Their fate would be sealed.
It would also take the wind out of the sails of the radicals.
The US and the EU just have to agree and then it is doable.
An entire propaganda industry has grown out of the “peace process.” For the stakeholders of that industry to change course would be an admission of failure which they could never stomach. They are heavily invested in the concept of Palestinian victimhood, Israeli culpability, Israeli aggression and guilt, Palestinian suffering and Israeli dominance and superior military.
Israel in the mind of the industry can take a few blows and deserves a few barbs from the international community. Israel, in the doctrine of the peace industry, can take and deserves all the hell coming to it in the form of terrorism.
The Muslim countries in the region are heavily invested in dominating the region over time. They are committed to victory through terror, through economic domination and through the spread of Islam throughout the world using western institutions to do the work for them. They are not invested in a Palestinian state or in helping their own refugees. As has so often been stated, the Pals are the pawns in a larger game.
Against this backdrop, and even though your proposal is excellent and would have great possibilities and advantages for all concerned, its common sense approach is foreign to the mindset of all the players. Even Israel cannot break free from the “peace process” mentality to go beyond it and develop its own mandate and its own proposals. That would require work and a confidence that Israeli leaders lack at the present.
If a nation is willing to allow its citizens be bombed day after day so as not to upset the “peace process” then how can you expect a large scale project such as you are proposing?
The problem with your proposal Ted is that it is not a matter of such new peace paradigm solution being easy to implement.
Rather given current thinking, it is a solution that is nearly impossible for the Palestinians and the Muslim Middle East to go along with and thus for the West and Israel to even raise such solution up the flagpole.