Don’t make us choose — you or Israel: Evangelical warns Trump over Netanyahu rift

‘There is no possibility you can win again if Bible-believing evangelicals see you as the F–k Netanyahu president,’ one former Trump adviser warns in letter to ex-US president

By TOI STAFF       Today, 4:49 am  

US President Donald Trump visits the Western Wall, May 22, 2017, in Jerusalem. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)

US President Donald Trump visits the Western Wall, May 22, 2017, in Jerusalem. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)

A senior evangelical leader has warned former US president Donald Trump to end his rift with ex-Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, saying that it could jeopardize support among American Christians.

Mike Evans, a former Trump adviser who is very close to Netanyahu, sent a letter to Trump, which he shared with the Washington Post, saying he was “horrified” by Trump’s recently reported comments.

The letter comes after the release of an interview with Trump by Israeli journalist Barak Ravid in which Trump lashed out at Netanyahu over the Israeli leader’s congratulations to US President Joe Biden after he won the presidency last year.

Trump said Netanyahu’s congratulatory message to Biden came too quickly after the election results were announced, results he continues to contest to this day.

“He was very early. Like earlier than most. I haven’t spoken to him since. Fuck him,” Trump said.

Further comments released saw Trump claiming Netanyahu, not the Palestinians, were the main obstacle to peace, and that Netanyahu angered and blindsided Trump with a plan to annex much of the West Bank.

“Please, I beg of you, don’t put us in the position to choose between you and Bible land,” the letter said according to the Post. “There is no possibility you can win again if Bible-believing evangelicals see you as the ‘F–k Netanyahu’ president who .?.?. blames the State of Israel, and not the Palestinians, for not making peace.”

Mike Evans at the Friends of Zion Museum in Jerusalem, on May 16, 2017 (Nati Shohat/Flash90)

Evans implored Trump to “understand that Benjamin Netanyahu,” in his view, “has much greater support among evangelicals in America than you.”

Evans, who runs the “Jerusalem Prayer Team,” which boasts some 77 million followers, has come to Netanyahu’s defense before.

Earlier this year, when a coalition was coalescing under Naftali Bennett and Yair Lapid to oust Netanyahu, Evans warned that such a move could see Israel lose the support of American Christians.

He called them a coalition of Arab anti-Zionists and post-Zionists who would “wave a white flag” and surrender to radical Islam.

“Bibi Netanyahu is the only man in the world that unites evangelicals,” he said.

Evans also released an open letter to Bennett, calling him a “disgusting disappointment” and accused him of “shitting on the face” of US evangelicals.

He later apologized, saying that Bennett “has actually been a strong Zionist most of the time I know him, and he deserves more respect.”

Netanyahu has been instrumental in recent years in shifting Israel’s diplomatic focus in the US from relying on the support of the US Jewish community — which is largely liberal and critical of Israel — to seeking evangelical support.

This was highlighted earlier this year when former Israeli ambassador to the US Ron Dermer suggested that Israel should prioritize the “passionate and unequivocal” support of evangelical Christians over that of American Jews, who he said are “disproportionately among our critics.”

Illustrative: Evangelical Christians from various countries wave flags as they march to show their support for Israel in Jerusalem. (AP Photo/Sebastian Scheiner, File)

Other evangelical leaders took a more nuanced view of Trump’s comments than did Evans, but were clearly unhappy with the rift.

“Evangelical support for Israel is rooted in our Biblical tradition which transcends both politics and personalities,” Sandra Parker, the action fund chairwoman for Christians United for Israel, the largest US pro-Israel lobby, told the Post in an email Tuesday.

Johnnie Moore, a former Liberty University official who helped organize Trump’s evangelical advisory board in 2016, said US evangelicals would not abandon Trump.

“The relationship between American Evangelicals and Bibi preceded the relationship with President Trump by many, many years,” he said. “But Bibi was an Israeli prime minister, and Trump was an American president. There’s a difference between the two for Americans,” he said referring to Netanyahu by his nickname.

Others noted that even if the reports were true, it did not diminish all that Trump had done for Israel, citing his recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, moving the US embassy to Jerusalem, pulling out of the Iran nuclear deal and recognizing Israel’s sovereignty over the Golan Heights.

“Even if the alleged comments are true, it doesn’t diminish in the least that President Trump’s policies have been the most pro-Israel in history,” said Robert Jeffress, senior pastor at First Baptist Church of Dallas, who led a prayer at the 2018 opening of the US Embassy in Jerusalem.

Trump spoke to Ravid in April and July for the Israeli reporter’s new Hebrew-language book, “Trump’s Peace,” about the normalization deals between Israel and Arab states, which were brokered with the help of the Trump administration. Some of his comments, which were taped, have been broadcast on Israeli TV, including the “Fuck Bibi” remarks.

Despite Trump’s anger, Netanyahu was actually quite late in congratulating Biden in November of last year, conspicuously doing so long hours after many other world leaders.

Trump’s denial of Biden’s election victory led him to boycott his successor’s inauguration. It also led to the January 6 assault on the US Capitol by a mob of Trump supporters, for which the House impeached the former president for a second time.

Ravid writes for Israel’s Walla news site and the Axios news site in the US.

Speaking to Ravid, the former president said no one had helped Netanyahu more than he did, and he therefore considered it a betrayal when Netanyahu congratulated Biden on his election victory, even as Trump falsely claimed that the election had been stolen.

“Nobody did more for Bibi. And I liked Bibi. I still like Bibi,” Trump said. He was “the man that I did more for than any other person I dealt with.”

“But I also like loyalty. The first person to congratulate Biden was Bibi. And not only did he congratulate him, he did it on tape. And it was on tape.

“I was personally disappointed in him,” he said. “Bibi could have stayed quiet. He made a terrible mistake.”


In a statement after an initial broadcast of Trump’s comments last week, Netanyahu hailed Trump, and explained why it was important that he congratulate Biden on his victory.

“Former prime minister Netanyahu really appreciates the great contribution that president Trump made to the State of Israel and its security,” the statement from Netanyahu’s office said. “He also really appreciates the importance of the strong alliance between Israel and it was therefore important for him to congratulate the incoming president.”

December 15, 2021 | 94 Comments »

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44 Comments / 94 Comments

  1. @Reader

    Of course, it would be no problem for the fans if the votes got assigned to their favorite – that would mean to them that the elections were fair.

    In fact, the conclusions you draw are cut for a very bad fit, from many directions, it would seem. Hence, you are quite wrong in your assessment of me and every purpose behind the search for election integrity that I and other support. You, and others, once again mistake the reason and purpose of this entire undertaking as motivated out of a desire to see an imposed will upon the election outcome, and both, you and they, could not be more misled in this belief. The pursuit of election integrity is not intended towards the purpose of choosing a candidate to secure the public’s rights. Rather, it is to pursue the public’s rights, such that the public actually chooses the candidate, regardless of their choice.

    Towards this end, every vote should be counted in every election in complete disregard of the candidate chosen. The security of your vote ensures the security of my own and, simultaneously, every other vote as well. The social contract between the people and their govt is that piece of paper casually described as a ballot. This tangible scrap of pulp represents the intangible product of the established reality that the dignity of men overrides the whims of the state and these whims of the state are merely extensions of the public will.

    The fulfillment of this basic premise of govt is pivotal in squaring the principle of consent of the governed against the authority applied by the govt upon the governed. Though you know little of my views, very little it would seem, you should be clever enough to deduce the reasoning as I have explained it.

    For instance, I did, in fact, expect and support an inquiry into the obvious fraud on full display at the Iowa Democratic caucus which Bernie, the Israel hating, communist supporting, liberal grifter, actually won. If I would seek a fair accounting of support for this foaming anti-Zionist, anti-millionaire billionaire, I would likely seek the same for anyone. When an investigation into that fraud, displayed openly before us all, failed to materialize, probably because Barr checked that one too, I knew the General Election was doomed to be completely compromised with corruption, as any of us could likely have predicted.

    The reason I could perceive this fact would be the same reason that a child could perceive it. Even a drunkard, well past his limit, could easily reason this riddle as obvious. It is a dangerous path to pick election outcomes. I wouldn’t support it. Not for anyone or anything. The 2020 General Election is an exact example for why I wouldn’t. The lack of a fair accounting for any election works as a guarantee for a lack of a fair accounting of every election. Fraud vitiates everything, and once it slips into the system, the system is forever flawed til the fraud is examined, exposed and expunged. This is precisely true, irregardless of the candidate or the politics of the day. If you should believe anything about me, you should believe these are my views. For what its worth.

  2. @Michael S.

    but now they are a laughingstock.

    I think you are exaggerating on both counts but why do you think they ended up being, as you say, a laughingstock?

  3. Reader,

    I guess, I am weird.

    Did you expect that to pass without comment? Of course you’re weird! I think everyone here is. That’s why this is my favorite blog! 🙂

    I’m not an expert on “Queen’s English”, but it’s my impression they make frequent use of hyperbole. At one point recently, the US Supreme Court consisted entirely of Jews and Catholics — outrageously out of proportion to their numbers in the US population — and the Orange Man from Queens has a talent for noting the obvious: Jews were, at one time, powerful far beyond their numbers in US politics; but now they are a laughingstock.

  4. @peloni

    Not to worry, I am sure that your vote is already being assigned in your absense….

    Everybody else’s vote might be too.

    Of course, it would be no problem for the fans if the votes got assigned to their favorite – that would mean to them that the elections were fair.

  5. I am not going to vote in the next election.

    Not to worry, I am sure that your vote is already being assigned in your absense….

  6. @peloni

    “I did not take your words out of context”

    Yes, you did.

    Every time you respond to me you essentially are talking to yourself.

  7. @Laura

    Do you mind him saying:
    ““It used to be that Israel had absolute power over Congress. And today I think it’s the exact opposite,” said Trump.”

    I do but, I guess, I am weird.

  8. Reader, actually I have no problem with that comment from Trump that American Jews don’t care about Israel. In fact I think I remember him saying something to that effect publicly, so its not a revelation. I myself have observed that American Jews, outside of the Orthodox community, care little for Israel and I have criticized them for it. Why else the attachment to the democrat party, even with its current open anti-Semitism. You may be an exception reader, but the vast majority of Jewish liberals either don’t care or are hostile towards Israel. They especially despise Bibi and the so-called “settlers” in Judea and Samaria.

    Reader
    DECEMBER 17, 2021 AT 8:30 PM
    New “pearls” from Trump (from an audio recording – sorry, peloni):

    https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/318820

  9. @Reader
    There is no dishonesty in what I wrote(yawn,..yet another straw man, but I’ll not fetch your bait further), I did not take your words out of context and if you care to amend them, they are your own words, so feel free to do so.

    The claim of idol worship is a canard. Trump was very good for the US, very good for the Jews of the US and very good for Israel. Furthermore, his policy, left unhijacked by the Radicals which held the idol worship of the American Jews among others, would have set the world on a path more appreciably stable and moderate. If you do not see the value in this, it says more about you than the man you foolishly see as the villain in this.

  10. @peloni

    Yes, you could not resist being dishonest again.

    I was not talking about Trump’s (your idol’s) policies.

    I was talking about the “fight against antisemitism” concept in which Jews have been engaging for decades instead of doing something constructive for themselves and Israel, and which does as much good as fighting ghosts, or something stupid like that.

    I will not respond to your unbearably long Trump-obsessed tirades which show that you are incapable of sound reasoning or of understanding anything I write.

    You have your opinions, I have mine, except that I am not willing to go on the barricades and die for a run of the mill politician who millions of Americans have endowed with superhuman qualities due to their idol-worshiping atavism and desire to look for a human Savior.

  11. You asked

    Well, if you already have the answer, why ask?

    I knew my views and I requested your own, yet another straw m…err, sorry,.. act of conflating the subject to make it less clear(sorry, couldn’t resist that).

    You said

    the “fight against antisemitism” idea is delusional, as well as the idea of trying to make the perpetrators and their descendants feel guilty or become better educated about the Holocaust and make them start treating Jews better thus eliminating the possibility of another Holocaust;

    It is dilusional to suggest that the fight against antismetism is limited to simply :

    (your words:)
    trying to make the perpetrators and their descendants feel guilty or become better educated about the Holocaust and make them start treating Jews better thus eliminating the possibility of another Holocaust;

    If you will reflect back upon what we first spoke of, and which you found scorn for, it was the Trump policy on antisemitism, which was not a sock puppet request for the children to play nice. It came with a focus in law and prosecution, so both the meat and the teeth to chew it. It was not an unimportant or “delusional” action but had the merit of focusing both the ability to protect, and the action of protecting, the Jewish community in the same fell blow.

    I think your belittlement of this policy actually portrays either how badly you perhaps understood it, or your really do not care for the safety of the people you desire to flee to Israel. Furthermore, your denial that the fight against antisemitism has real merit or real product suggests, to me in any case, that you should look more carefully at the benefits and gains made both to our people and for our people, over the years. I further believe that we have gained strong friendships beyond our own community, friendships that have seen to improve us and them and us again. A bit of education on this topic will sharply contrast with your sentiment, but I believe it is sound advice as there can really be no support for your marginalizing view of fighting against the great crime against our people, a battle that has been ongoing for the full length of our existence.

    One more final point, this idea of the Jews fighting to protect themselves from violence and antisemitism holds the same institutional flaw of maintaining Hamas within Israel’s borders. If you do not address the foundational ability for the serpent to strike, you will of course be bitten. He is a snake after all. Antisemitism is the snake I speak of here. I do not care to leave the safety of Jewish communities around the globe to the limit of their own means. They. Can. Not. “Protect. Themselves”. I do not support a defensive model in which it leaves Jews beaten, murdered and fearful of their lives and their loved ones, even if it supports the goal of aliyah. I would not allow a mob the right to persecute our people, I would fight it, with everything I find within the realm of possibility, I would clear it from every land. Further than this, I would support and herald men of honor and substance such as President Trump who had the temerity and creativity to successfully move towards this goal. To scorn this support is wrong. Simply without discussion it is a vile desire for anyone to hold dear, and I am shocked to find that you do.

  12. Laura, you are probably right about HRC being Hillary Rodham Clinton, considering the context; but it isn’t clear. My first guess was “House Rules Committee, until I got set “straight” by Duck Duck Go. True language is disappearing, along with reason.

  13. “The question I raised is simply this:
    Do you really believe that supporting the fight against antisemitism is contrary to Zionism.
    It isn’t.”

    Well, if you already have the answer, why ask?

    I think, I already answered this question in my previous comment but I hope I can make it clearer:

    1) the “fight against antisemitism” idea is delusional, as well as the idea of trying to make the perpetrators and their descendants feel guilty or become better educated about the Holocaust and make them start treating Jews better thus eliminating the possibility of another Holocaust;

    2) fighting to protect one’s life and property from antisemitic outbursts is a must and is perfectly compatible with Zionism;

    3) ZIONISM = RETURN TO ZION = ALIYAH
    anyone who claims to be a Zionist but does not advocate for aliyah and promote it in concrete ways is NOT a Zionist, no matter how much he or his organization extol Israel, Torah, the Jewish history, Herzl , Jabotinsky, etc.

  14. @Reader

    don’t add to my words because it distorts the argument and causes confusion.

    I see, I placed the quote box too low and included “I offer no apology” within the box by mistake. Simple error, for which I do apologize. It is not within my intent to distort your words or their meaning.

    The question I raised is simply this:
    Do you really believe that supporting the fight against antisemitism is contrary to Zionism. It isn’t.

    Your words do suggest this to me, and I have inquired on this point with you once before, on a previous thread some months back, where you gave a careful answer. Your answers are your own to make, but I find the conclusion from this, if it is your meaning, to be quite an unpleasant suggestion. So, I very much hope you will correct me in my perceptions of your comment.

    Regarding the use of Straw Man arguments, here is a definition:

    a weak or imaginary opposition (such as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted.

    Which is exactly what you did when partially quoting me without the proper context and confuting the meaning of them. If the word offends you, I can use others, though.

    I am not insulting American Jews by describing them as I see them. If you are offended, it is not my intent. It is also not my intent to describe them as foolish due to their liberal politics, which is an altogether other matter. It is their associations and support for a political party, which is intolerably motivated against them, eg BLM. In any case, these are my views, but I find them entirely appropriate.

  15. @peloni

    “I would prefer that they would each find their way to the home land in their own time and own way, and not at the end of a violent mob beating chased to Israel out of fear and flight from misery.”

    This is propaganda a lot of people keep mindlessly repeating that was created for the American Jews to largely stop their aliyah and to give them a good “high-minded” excuse not to make aliyah and not to feel guilty about staying in Exile.

    What if there is no more time for them to do this in their own time?

    The last time, the Jews of Europe would LOVE to move to the planned “National Home of the Jewish People” “chased… by fear and flight from misery” and no one would let them!

    They were locked in Europe, mainly by the US and Great Britain to be slaughtered – IT WAS TOO LATE!

    As far as fighting antisemitism – certainly, Jews must try to protect themselves from violence, etc. but the very idea of “fighting antisemitism” (as though it can be defeated) is delusional.

  16. @peloni

    Also, please state who you are quoting every time you do and don’t add to my words because it distorts the argument and causes confusion.

    I didn’t say “I offer no apology”.

  17. @peloni

    First, quit using the term “straw man” because you either don’t know what it is or you keep accusing me of something I am not doing.

    Second, I quoted 2 things you said and added my own opinion of what they are to the best of my knowledge and experience.

    Third, I don’t like it when someone offhandedly insults millions of people “just because they are Jewish” (I am not quoting you), and just because their politics are different or for any other reason.

    Fourth, don’t put words in my mouth – I said what I meant to say and that’s it.

    Fifth, what is the question you keep asking – I couldn’t locate it.

    Please, repeat it but MAKE IT SHORT!!!

  18. I don’t fit the mold of American Jews as far as politics is concerned. I continue to be confounded by their allegiance to the democrat party. One can only conclude that “progressivism”, ie marxism, is their true religion. Though I’m sure they would not consider themselves marxist. But that is what the modern day democrat party is. American Jews are politically living in the past and still apparently think its the democrat party of JFK etc.

    And I thought the HRC was Hillary Rodham Clinton. LOL

    I would note that in all things, we paint life in large swaths, because generalities are amenable to general conversations, but in truth I see all men as individuals, but few American Jews, not among the heredim, will break with the generalities I have mentioned here. There are some, of course, and I mean no disrespect for any who might not meet the mold I share in my discription, for what its worth.

  19. @Reader
    More Straw Men…

    This does become more interesting even as you continue to distort my words. By the way, context matters so do read it all.

    I would prefer that they would each find their way to the home land in their own time and own way, and not at the end of a violent mob beating chased to Israel out of fear and flight from misery. If it is your suggestion that this is preferred over legal reforms in foreign lands to benefit our people, it is an unpleasant thought you bring to mind, and I find it to be a sour proposal for any Jew to hope upon another, in my view.

    Let me be more direct: If it is your contention that the laws safeguarding Jews from antisemitism in the Diaspora should not be addressed because they do not provide the impetus for aliyah, I think you suggest a barbarous deal. This is NOT the basis of Zionism, not in my view and not in any reasonable view, I think. If you find this high minded, well, I do not. Not at all.

    Zionism as a movement was created by someone and then carried on by those who became convinced that all the Jews HAVE TO return to The Land because “they no longer had a choice in the going”.

    Of course, most Jews wouldn’t listen being fully convinced that they are doing fine in the “democratic” Poland, etc., or that the Moshiach isn’t here yet. or that Germany was their Israel and Berlin was their Jerusalem, and we paid for this with 6 million lives – one third of the prewar Jewish population which, BTW, was never restored in numbers after the Holocaust.

    Fairly stated, and I in no way disagree with this. Of course, this in no way addresses the point you skipped with distorting my words. We should work for aliyah and combat antisemitism, each. One process does not offend the other. They are, in fact, not mutually exclusive goals but complementary proposals to safeguard our people. As I have said, not all Jews are Zionists. Should we abandon our brothers to the unkind yoke that was the source of creating the movement that you yourself subscribe towards. I am not so barbarous as this, and neither should you be.

    The Law of Return, as it was meant to be applied originally, is precisely about saving those who would be persecuted as in Hitler’s Germany.
    I offer no apology.

    This is also true.

    Yet, your clever straw man distortion has not answered the question I have asked twice now. Let us see if you will but address the question I put to you twice now, or if you will ignore it a second time again. Either way, we will have an answer to the question, I think.

  20. Hi, Reader.

    I am very surprized, how quickly the Biden Nazi Regime has taken over America, and what lemmings the Americans have become. Even Hong Kong hasn’t fallen as precipitously as we have.

    You said the coming Holocaust will be worse than that in WWII. The saving grace of Auschwitz, etc. is that the vast majority of Jews and others died without surrendering their souls. In the coming Shoah, they will have completely sold out before ever entering a gas chamber. This has been happeniong to Christians as well, all over the world. The most insidious tool used against them, is the fake pandemic and its accompanying mandates and restrictions. I think virtually my entire family have gotten the jab, even though they are intelligent and should know better. I think Only a remnant will be saved, no matter if they are Jews or goiim.

  21. @Michael S.

    Thanks, Michael.

    I thought that HRC meant Human Rights Campaign but then I got even more confused because I don’t follow this stuff closely and I couldn’t decipher the rest of it.

    What these teachers did IS an outrage.

    I hope they’ll pay for it

  22. I think it would be wrong for people to go to Israel and feel they had no choice in the going. Indeed, this is not what Zionism should ascribe to in my opinion.

    This is a high-minded propaganda piece created especially for Americans, for whatever reason, and it serves as an excuse not to make aliyah until your intentions are perfect which they will never be.

    Jews are in Exile and they shouldn’t throw themselves heart and soul into other peoples’ lives and politics, especially when they now have their own country.

    Israel’s existence is NOT optional in spite of what many Jews like to believe, and they must realize the WWII for Jews has never ended.

    The Law of Return, as it was meant to be applied originally, is precisely about saving those who would be persecuted as in Hitler’s Germany.

    Zionism as a movement was created by someone and then carried on by those who became convinced that all the Jews HAVE TO return to The Land because “they no longer had a choice in the going”.

    Of course, most Jews wouldn’t listen being fully convinced that they are doing fine in the “democratic” Poland, etc., or that the Moshiach isn’t here yet. or that Germany was their Israel and Berlin was their Jerusalem, and we paid for this with 6 million lives – one third of the prewar Jewish population which, BTW, was never restored in numbers after the Holocaust.

    Now, it is America that is their Israel and New York – their Jerusalem, except, I am afraid, things are going to be much worse this time than 90 years ago.

    In fact, Zionism = Aliyah, and any person or organization who says they are Zionist but does not strongly advocate for aliyah is not Zionist by definition.

    I find the American Jews to be a sorry lot of fools

    The above expression of yours kind of leaves me speechless.

    I think you should take it back and apologize.

  23. Reader, I think HRC stands for “Human Rights Campaign”, the people who are trying to implement the following outrage:

    2 teachers at a California school reportedly coached a 12 year old into a trans identity behind her parents back. The school also changed her name and pronouns without informing the parents.

    This was the mom’s speech tonight: pic.twitter.com/xNjChjeKFK

    — Libs of Tik Tok (@libsoftiktok) December 16, 2021

    https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/mom-goes-nuclear-on-school-board/

    “IL” means “Israel”. StevenI may be saying the the great danger facing our society does not come from Donald Trump, Benjamin Netanyahu, etc. There is an evil agenda at work, attempting to undermine society and immerse us into chaos — for the benefit of looters, drug pushers, pedophiles, Deep State, Anthony Fauci and the scheming elites of the world.

  24. Yes, well, in a perfect world things will be handled better, til then we are left with living among mere mortals where hatred of the ‘other’ is ever present, and what ‘other’ is more prized than we Jews. This brings us back full circle with this topic again. There is a special love of Jews collectively known as antisemitism, though the current rube serving as FM of Israel defines the term more stupidly, but then he can’t help always being consistently wrong.

    Regarding your attention towards aliyah, I would note that all Jews are not Zionists and even among Zionists not all have the heart or freedom to break the tale of next year in Jerusalem to make it this year instead. I would prefer that they would each find their way to the home land in their own time and own way, and not at the end of a violent mob beating chased to Israel out of fear and flight from misery. If it is your suggestion that this is preferred over legal reforms in foreign lands to benefit our people, it is an unpleasant thought you bring to mind, and I find it to be a sour proposal for any Jew to hope upon another, in my view. For my part, I hope our people the blessing of long life, good health, financial success, and that they should all live to see the coming of the Messiah, for Zionists and others, both. I think it would be wrong for people to go to Israel and feel they had no choice in the going. Indeed, this is not what Zionism should ascribe to in my opinion.
    /2

  25. @Reader

    Why do you take it upon yourself to judge them?

    I find their solidarity to antisemitic and violent groups worrisome, and damaging, meanwhile they strike out at a man who was very protective of their communities, and not in a divisive or condescending way, either. Why do you think they tie themselves so tightly to these groups who actually hate them, harm them and threaten them while they kick someone who should have been an ally to the curb with slander and nonsense. It is the best expressed example of the Stockholm Syndrome(if you are familiar with the term) that I can conjure in my mind. You think poorly of me that I judge them foolish, well, I do, because they are. Some things are just what they are, and we aren’t being cruel or contemptuous by noticing that when it rains you will get wet.

    You ask “who cares”? For one, I do. I find the American Jews to be a sorry lot of fools who I hope will live in peace and harmony long enough to learn of the reasons I find them as I see them. But it has nothing to do with medicare and everything to do with their unseverable state of bondage to a political movement which holds their devotion more strongly than their faith. Simultaneously they earn the contempt of the very same political cohorts with which they wish more than anything to be partnered. It is a bad bargain they have made all the while unmindful or, more likely, unresponsive to, the deep derision and bolstering hatred by their affianced party. Like an abused spouse left wimpering for more abuse, it disturbs me and I can see something of where this might lead, and if you consider the situation even slightly, you likely can too. Yes, I care. You should too. We all should. Or so it is my belief.

    I would note that in all things, we paint life in large swaths, because generalities are amenable to general conversations, but in truth I see all men as individuals, but few American Jews, not among the heredim, will break with the generalities I have mentioned here. There are some, of course, and I mean no disrespect for any who might not meet the mold I share in my discription, for what its worth.

    we would be better off trying to figure out why Jews would even need these “special protections” in “the land of the free and the home of the brave”

    /1

  26. @peloni

    By “singled out” I meant that there is always some news about what percentage of Jews voted Democratic implying that they were wrong again.

    Who cares?

    Why do you take it upon yourself to judge them?

    or whereyou think I wrote that
    they … have to kiss anybody’s ass and apologize for how they voted.

    I wasn’t quoting you or anybody else when I wrote that – try to find quotation marks around these words in my post – Hint: you won’t find them.

    If you find my hypothesis that most of the American Jews might have voted to save the Social Security and Medicare moronic, why don’t you find the assumption that most of the American Jews hated Trump and thought he was an antisemite just as moronic?

    As far as Trump’s legislation offering protection to Jews that they must be forever thankful for, I think we would be better off trying to figure out why Jews would even need these “special protections” in “the land of the free and the home of the brave”, and about whether it may be time for the Jews to get out of here before it’s too late instead of throwing ourselves into someone else’s political games.

  27. @Reader
    You do seem to be on a roll of setting up a series of Straw Man statements today. I will note that we all have a moment of misstatement or typing without thinking, but this is becoming a redundant effort in this series of comments.

    To correct me, please copy and paste the section of my text that suggest to you that the American Jews were

    singled out for voting the wrong way.

    or whereyou think I wrote that

    they … have to kiss anybody’s ass and apologize for how they voted.

    Hint: You won’t find it.

    Of course, they and their fellow liberal devotees did vote the wrong way, and they are enjoying the benefits for doing so, and it has not even been a year’s worth of fun yet. So should we all live to vote again, perhaps they could put some thought in the next vote they cast.

    Also, no one should be humbled for being afforded the full protection of the law. Yet, they should also not be so bold as to strike out at the only person who made these protections a reality. Do recall that Trump did not sign any legislation providing these protections. He wasn’t even lobbied by the American Jewish groups, to my knowledge, to do so. He acted independently and alone to safeguard the Jewish communities. His successor, as of June, at least, was still considering canceling these changes. No catcalls of antisemitism were forthcoming from the Jewish leaders or their community against the Radicals when this was realized. Who do you think they might be considering supporting in 2024? Hmm….I wonder… yep, not the anti elderly guy….LOLOLOL

  28. I have to agree with Peloni on these matters.

    What crap. The American Jews are not a one topic voting group based on Medicare, and if I truly believed that you believed this, I would think you to carry the mental capacity of a moron. You know this is nonsense. You really are stretching for something to tie against Trump to excuse the unceasing nature of the American Jews anatomical attachment to the Democratic Party. No, in 2020, the American Jews voted against Trump, the man they claimed as being antisemitic for four years with every reason to disbelief their claims staring them flat in their face. They hated him. They shamed him. The attributed the attacks against the Jewish community as being attributable to him. To contrast the reality of this nonsense, a pogrom was launched in LA against a Jewish neighborhood, and five months later the American Jews voted in line with the instigators and the activists who made that vision real – and they knew this to be the case when they did so. We can discuss their motives as being based on many things, but being motivated as bleeding hearts for the elderly is a shot out of silly town.

    The American Jews supported the Dems as they always do. It was a foolish choice, but their right to be foolish has never been waived. Yet, this was not the limit of their regretful nature, unfortunately. Worse than this, Trump was falsely assailed as an antisimite, routinely, by the leadership of the Jewish community(no he couldn’t suit them either) throughout Trump’s entire presidency. Even if they were too afflicted with liberal bias to vote for him, American Jews should have at minimum recognized and addressed the poppycock nature of such open slander. Should Trump have criticized them for not doing so? Yes, don’t you? Trump didn’t only address issues that improved the situation for Israel in the world, he also addressed issues that improved the situation for Jews in America. He did this by directly addressing the rising occurrence of violent antisemitism in America. Among other things, using the power vested in the president, he acted thru a multi-prong approach thru his work with the Executive Order on Combating Anti-Semitism, the Executive Order on Advancing International Religious Freedom, and dispatching the DOJ to actively pursue and publicly prosecute violations under these legal changes. It should be noted that these EOs held sweeping changes to US law that extended significant protections to American Jews, both specifically and more generally. He also employed the use of the presidential bullypulpit to highlight the antisemitic attacks taking place throughout the country and was belittled for his attentions to these tragedies. American Jews should have held him in a much greater state of endearment than was ever shown to him, and I think that his resentment of the hostility shown to him in its place was fairly based.

  29. @peloni

    I find it demeaning because there are other minorities who vote Democratic and no one ever says that they are ungrateful but the Jews are always singled out for voting the wrong way.

    Anyone can vote any way they want and they don’t have to kiss anybody’s ass and apologize for how they voted.

  30. @Reader

    Has it occurred to you that one of the reasons the Jews “supported the Dems” was because the “bleeding hearts” also couldn’t stand the thought of tens of millions of the American elderly ending up without food, shelter, and medical care, and not because they didn’t appreciate all the things Trump allegedly did for them?

    What crap. The American Jews are not a one topic voting group based on Medicare, and if I truly believed that you believed this, I would think you to carry the mental capacity of a moron. You know this is nonsense. You really are stretching for something to tie against Trump to excuse the unceasing nature of the American Jews anatomical attachment to the Democratic Party. No, in 2020, the American Jews voted against Trump, the man they claimed as being antisemitic for four years with every reason to disbelief their claims staring them flat in their face. They hated him. They shamed him. The attributed the attacks against the Jewish community as being attributable to him. To contrast the reality of this nonsense, a pogrom was launched in LA against a Jewish neighborhood, and five months later the American Jews voted in line with the instigators and the activists who made that vision real – and they knew this to be the case when they did so. We can discuss their motives as being based on many things, but being motivated as bleeding hearts for the elderly is a shot out of silly town.

  31. @peloni

    I understand that you find the topic of Medicare reform frightening

    He wasn’t reforming Medicare.

    He STOPPED THE FLOW OF MONEY to Social Security and Medicare by suspending the payroll tax which finances them using the excuse of making life easier for the working people, and he said that he intended to never restart it again, if reelected, by renewing the suspension of the payroll tax (it is illegal to simply repeal the tax).

    Has it occurred to you that one of the reasons the Jews “supported the Dems” was because the “bleeding hearts” also couldn’t stand the thought of tens of millions of the American elderly ending up without food, shelter, and medical care, and not because they didn’t appreciate all the things Trump allegedly did for them?

    I don’t see what’s wrong with Medicare other than the politicians trying to kill it by encouraging the so-called Medicare Advantage plans which are actually private HMOs where you need to put out a lot more cash to participate and cancelling the best Medigap plans.

  32. @Reader
    Why do you find it demeaning to suggest that the American Jews should have recognized the great benefits this president provided for the country and Jews in particular, at least enough not to have libeled him as an antisemite? Seems bizarre that this should be taken as demeaning by anyone. You don’t have to idolize him, but labeling someone who addresses violent crimes against Jews as being antisemitic is a straw man in and of itself, right? It was foolish of them to do this and they didn’t have to love him for addressing the rampant crimes being focused against them, but it is not out of line for Trump to resent the slanderous attacks before, during and after he acted to help protect them. And I think you know this is true. You are not as dim as you are pretending here with this ruse.

    Also, I didn’t ignore your other posts. My correction on your comment was quite clearly addressed to the comment I quoted.

    You made a comment at 4:20am where you made a false statement and I corrected you. You made an additional comment at 4:27pm and I did address this as well. It doesn’t change the false statement you made 12hrs before, so what do you want me to say? Congratulations, your second statement supports my conclusion that your first statement was wrong.

    This is silly. Let us be done with this. It is below my interest just as it is below your intelligence to continue this childish game.

  33. @peloni

    You keep ignoring the comment that I made AFTER the one that you declared to be untrue.

    What are your motives for doing this?

    The way you write about the American Jews is extremely demeaning like they are some kind of ghetto Jews who should be grateful for any handout from their lord.

    As I already mentioned, I don’t idolize politicians, I actually dislike all of them more or less equally, and I certainly don’t share your opinion of Trump (I already stated the reason for it).

    I think he did say what the book claims he did but if not, the truth will come out.

  34. @Reader

    It may be laughable to you but to me this is too frightening to contemplate regardless of his alleged friendliness toward Israel.

    Not this again. Listen, I understand that you find the topic of Medicare reform frightening, but if you aren’t going to let someone fix it, you are going to be very well and truly screwed. He fixed the VA, and that was the model upon which he was going to address healthcare, medicare, and obamacare reforms. He had already applied the 4EOs last summer and…

    Well, I won’t pursue this rabbit hole again. You distrust his motives. I can tell you that your fears are misplaced. I only hope he has the opportunity to prove me right and you wrong, as 2028 is growing closer every day.

  35. @Reader

    No straw men made by me.

    Here is what you wrote.

    Netanyahu waited so long, it started to look embarrassing.

    All the other countries congratulated Biden before Netanyahu did and thus “helped establish a narrative of normalcy about the election”.

    Netanyahu was a Prime Minister of a country, not a Trump’s servant.

    Trump was PO’d at his loss (fair or not) and took it out on a Joo because he could which doesn’t add to his presumed virtues.

    As far as my reading your posts – I try but I can’t handle the long essays – I do get the gist of what you say.

    The highlighted section is your strawman argument, and it is not taken out of context. I just corrected your statement as being false which was a straw man statement and yes, I did call you on it, because it was pretty glaringly obvious.

    You are saying that everything this journalist claims Trump said is false.

    The source is useless. I didn’t say he lied about everything, but he has lied about some of it, pursued claims about things in which he did not contact a major source and is making extraordinary claims that might suit your perception, but that does not make him a useful source for info.

    Regarding Trump, he will speak to it sooner or later, as he must. And he can’t sue him for libel due to US libel laws.

    We know that he accused the American Jews of being ungrateful to him which he didn’t deny and which sounds about the same as his current alleged accusations.

    This is nonsense. This is in no way similar to the claims attested to in these articles. Your claim suggests either an ignorance that I do not believe of you, or some direct motive in claiming an apple is similar to a cow.

    Specifically, I am not familiar with the quote you are referring, but lets address this matter more generally.

    The American Jews supported the Dems as they always do. It was a foolish choice, but their right to be foolish has never been waived. Yet, this was not the limit of their regretful nature, unfortunately. Worse than this, Trump was falsely assailed as an antisimite, routinely, by the leadership of the Jewish community(no he couldn’t suit them either) throughout Trump’s entire presidency. Even if they were too afflicted with liberal bias to vote for him, American Jews should have at minimum recognized and addressed the poppycock nature of such open slander. Should Trump have criticized them for not doing so? Yes, don’t you? Trump didn’t only address issues that improved the situation for Israel in the world, he also addressed issues that improved the situation for Jews in America. He did this by directly addressing the rising occurrence of violent antisemitism in America. Among other things, using the power vested in the president, he acted thru a multi-prong approach thru his work with the Executive Order on Combating Anti-Semitism, the Executive Order on Advancing International Religious Freedom, and dispatching the DOJ to actively pursue and publicly prosecute violations under these legal changes. It should be noted that these EOs held sweeping changes to US law that extended significant protections to American Jews, both specifically and more generally. He also employed the use of the presidential bullypulpit to highlight the antisemitic attacks taking place throughout the country and was belittled for his attentions to these tragedies. American Jews should have held him in a much greater state of endearment than was ever shown to him, and I think that his resentment of the hostility shown to him in its place was fairly based.

  36. @peloni

    Anyway, my main problem with Trump, as I already mentioned last year, is that he started defunding Social Security and Medicare by suspending the payroll tax and he fully intended to continue this if reelected.

    This is a fact and not my fantasy.

    If this little project of his were to succeed, tens of millions of the elderly would find themselves in the street with no money even for cat food (not for their cats but for themselves) and no medical care.

    It may be laughable to you but to me this is too frightening to contemplate regardless of his alleged friendliness toward Israel.

    This, I think, tells us a lot about his true nature.

  37. @peloni

    This article lists the world leaders who congratulated Biden – not all of them but a few, including the leaders of Canada, Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, etc.

    Quit creating straw men.

    The above is a quote from my previous post where I agreed that it wasn’t ALL of them just a few of the most important ones including those from the Anglo countries.

    You are saying that everything this journalist claims Trump said is false.

    Well, has Trump denied any of it?

    Let’s wait ’til he does and then sues the journalist for libel.

    We know that he accused the American Jews of being ungrateful to him which he didn’t deny and which sounds about the same as his current alleged accusations.

  38. @Reader
    @Laura

    All the other countries congratulated Biden before Netanyahu did

    This is the statement which I noted was untrue. It is untrue. It is not untrue because no other nation acted before Israel. It is untrue because “all the other countries” did not “congragulate Biden before Netanyahu”.

    Simple statement. Simply wrong. That was my only point in correcting you.

    Also, the revelations attested in this book are stated to be flatly false by Ambassador Friedman, at least in part. Friedman, who was a major member of these matters investigated by this “journalist”/activist, was not even interviewed by the author and the author won’t reveal his sources. He is a known critic of Bibi’s going back 20yrs, and Levin noted he is a Leftist journalist. I do know he broke a story on the details of the Trump Peace Plan in which Greenblat stated that not only were his details completely false, but that his efforts were upsetting to the ongoing negotiations between the parties, and asked that he cease such reporting.

    I give him no weight til some other sourcing on his comments are provided.
    With respect, you both seem overly eager to accept this author’s claims as validly reported when you really have no reason to do so. His claims are explosive and inconsistent with what we know of Trump and it is inconsistent with what we know of the times which we each lived thru.

    If you have any recollection of the events at the time, the fatherly Abbas tale you will recognize the fact that it stinks of being manufactured. Perhaps by the author, Trump or someone relating it to the author, but it is flatly inconsistent with the reality that Abbas and the White House were quite at odds over the Trump Plan. It’s just hocum, regardless of the source, and I do not trust the author enough to easily believe Trump would lie to advantage a Abbas.

    You really should look at the damage that this book is purposely applying to Trump with an understanding that we are to assume that it is Trump who is masterminding this damage to himself, should he have made those statements as claimed. There are many hallmarks of Trump’s nature. Self-destruction to gain revenge is not among them. Trump has been a good friend to Israel…a very good friend. You should wait to judge him based on his own words, from himself. If he made these statements, he will clearly support them as factual. That is among the hallmarks of Trump’s nature. In any case, that is my view, for what it’s worth.