Does Trump have autonomy in mind rather than a state?

T. Belman. Everyone is advising Netanyahu to cooperate with Pres Trump. No one is telling Netanyahu what’s in it for Israel. Netanyahu’s obligation is to get a deal that Israelis want rather than to cooperate for the sake of cooperating. This is BS. If Trump is aiming for a deal that is a variant of Olmert’s deal, forget it. If Trump wants Israel to cooperate than give Israel a deal that warrant’s cooperation. The deal must appeal to the government rather than to Herzog. And the government must give the people what they want rather than to give Netanyahu what he will settle for.

I don’t like this pressure to cooperate without knowing what is in it for us. Netanyahu is like a moth who flies too close to the fire.

But wait. McMaster says Trump  “will express his desire for dignity and self-determination for the Palestinians”. Interesting. This coming from a President who has yet to endorse a Palestinian state. Could it be that Trump will only offer the Palestinians autonomy sufficient to express their self termination. If so Netanyahu is on board.  Israel would get to stay in the West Bank and perhaps build in much of Area C. Watch this carefully.

Opposition leader promises his support if Netanyahu attempts to make progress

BY TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF

US President Donald Trump, right, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu shake hands during a joint press conference in the East Room of the White House, in Washington, DC, February 15, 2017. (AFP PHOTO / MANDEL NGAN)

US President Donald Trump’s Special Envoy for International Negotiations Jason Greenblatt has “unequivocally” stressed that the White House is striving to achieve a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians, the Zionist Union leader Isaac Herzog said Saturday.

“Trump’s envoy to the Middle East told me unequivocally that the president of the United States is determined to reach an agreement between us and the Palestinians,” Herzog said during an event in the central Israeli city of Rishon Lezion.

The Labor leader dubbed Trump’s upcoming visit to Israel as a “tiebreaker,” adding that at was now up to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to decide whether to cooperate with the Trump administration to try to reach a deal.

“Netanyahu has to decide whether he is working for the people of Israel or working for [Coalition chairman David] Bitan and [Culture Minister Miri] Regev,” Herzog said, referring to two Likud MKs with a hawkish stance on matters concerning the Palestinians.

Herzog promised opposition support if Netanyahu, who heads a multi-party coalition, does attempt to make substantive progress with the Palestinians.

Trump’s incoming Ambassador to Israel David Friedman also told Israeli diplomats that is intent on reaching a peace deal, and urged them to cooperate and aid the president in his endeavor, Haaretz reported Friday. An Israeli government source told the newspaper that Friedman claimed Trump’s enthusiasm for relaunching the peace process presented a great opportunity for the Jewish state, and advised officials to avoid confrontation with the president over the matter. However, Friedman has also advised Trump that the prospects of achieving peace at present are low, two people who spoke with the envoy said.

On Friday, US National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster told reporters during a daily press briefing in Washington that Trump will work toward a “just and lasting peace” between Israel and the Palestinians on his upcoming trip to the region. McMaster added that that Trump will meet again with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, and will “express his desire for dignity and self-determination for the Palestinians.”

The White House official also said that Trump’s meetings with Israeli leaders would look to cement stronger ties between the two allies.

“With President [Reuven] Rivlin and Prime Minister Netanyahu, he will reaffirm America’s unshakable bond to the Jewish state,” he said.

Throughout the trip, Trump will “demonstrate his hopes for a just and lasting peace,” McMaster added.

Trump’s visit to Israel, which was officially announced last week, will take place from May 22 to 23 — just before Jerusalem Day — after he stops in Saudi Arabia and before he goes on to the Vatican. He will also travel to Brussels and Sicily for NATO and G7 summits on the final leg of his first foreign trip.

There has been speculation since Trump’s travel plans were announced that he would seek to facilitate a trilateral meeting with Netanyahu and Abbas.

When McMaster was asked if such a plan was in the works, he demurred. “It will be up to the president and those leaders,” he said.

Trump has already hosted both Netanyahu and Abbas at the White House, expressing optimism in his ability to succeed in brokering a peace deal where his three immediate predecessors have failed.

“It’s something that I think is, frankly, maybe not as difficult as people have thought over the years,” Trump told Abbas during their joint press conference. “We need two willing parties. We believe Israel is willing. We believe you’re willing. And if you are willing, we are going to make a deal.”

Abbas reportedly showed Trump maps drawn up as part of a former Israeli prime minister’s 2008 peace proposal, which Abbas chose not to accept at the time, during his visit to the White House last week.

He also reportedly told Trump that his negotiations with former Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert, which fell apart without an agreement, should form the basis of any future peace talks.

The PA leader ultimately balked at Olmert’s 2008 offer, and later cited the then-prime minister’s legal troubles at the time as his primary reason. Olmert had announced that he planned to resign in order to fight corruption allegations, and Abbas doubted the Israeli had the political clout to see the deal through. Olmert is currently serving a 26-month jail sentence on various corruption charges.

After last week’s summit between Trump and Abbas, Likud Minister Ze’ev Elkin said that although it was likely peace talks would resume, it was unlikely a deal would be reached soon.

Elkin noted Abbas’s intransigence in 2009 and 2010, during which Israel, under Netanyahu, instituted a ten-month settlement freeze that the PA president had demanded.

At that time, talks also broke down with the Palestinians arguing that the construction halt was merely partial as it did not include a suspension on building in East Jerusalem. Israel claims sovereignty throughout Jerusalem ad does not regard construction in parts of the city captured in the 1967 war as settlement building.

The Hamas terror group, which rules the Gaza Strip, has been quick to reject any proposed negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians, stating that Abbas has no mandate.

May 13, 2017 | 16 Comments » | 74 views

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  1. TeamTrump is listening very carefully, and very politely, to all parties. Hezbollah reportedly just turned over Syrian border posts to the Lebanese Army. Do you think that happened out of Hezbollah’s respect for Lebanon?, or did FM Lavrov make that happen, after his day at the White House?

    This is the beginning of the end for the palestinians: get talking. stop the terror and get talking.

    Syria has lots of places for self-determination, or, as Ted put it, in what might be a Freudian slip: self-termination.

  2. “Israelis wounded by Arab terror attacks and the bereaved families of Israelis killed by terrorism have requested President Donald Trump meet with them during his upcoming trip to Israel later this month.”

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/229531

    “Supreme Court rejects ‘Israeli’ nationality status. Allowing citizens to relinquish ethnic or religious identity in the population registry would undermine Israel’s Jewishness, ruling says BY TIA GOLDENBERG October 4, 2013,”

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/supreme-court-rejects-israeli-nationality-status/

    euphemisms galore, unless there were Israeli Arabs protesting the murder of their relatives by their fellow Arabs — whatever nationality they are wearing on their sleeves. They don’t tell us, do they? And this is A7. Liberal political correctness infiltrates everywhere.

  3. Self-determination generally has come to mean statehood. That I believe is what President Woodrow Wilson meant by this Utopian concept.

  4. You start with your wish list and you compromise from there. I think our starting point should be to annex all of the land from the Nile to the Euphrates, including Jordan, Southern Lebanon, the Sinai Penninsula, and at least half of Syria. Kill or expel all the Arabs, encourage Jewish settlement.

    Now, from that point, let’s talk compromise. Maybe.

  5. It’s every goddam day. What does it matter if they don’t presently have the capacity to kill all of us. They pick off our most vulnerable. Every day. They are not human.

    Share Share On Facebook

    MAY 11, 2017 12:57 PM 0
    Palestinian Terrorist Indicted for April Murder of British Student in Jerusalem
    avatar by JNS.org

    Israeli ZAKA volunteers at the scene of the Palestinian terror attack that killed British exchange student Hannah Bladon. Photo: Courtesy ZAKA.

    JNS.org – The Jerusalem District Attorney’s Office filed an indictment on Thursday against 57-year-old Palestinian terrorist Jamil Tamimi, who murdered 21-year-old British exchange student Hannah Bladon on a Jerusalem light rail train in April.

    The indictment states Tamimi was in possession of a seven-inch kitchen knife when he boarded the train with the intention to murder. After determining Bladon was incapable of defending herself, Tamimi stabbed the British student in the chest seven times, killing her. The attack occurred on the Christian holiday of Good Friday.

    The indictment said the terrorist continued his attack until passengers on the train subdued him, before security forces arrived at the scene. Israeli authorities have said Tamimi, who is alleged to have a history of mental health issues, initiated the terror attack hoping he would be killed by security forces.

    MAY 12, 2017 4:56 PM0
    Israel Ranked 15th Most Militarily Powerful Nation in World, Ahead of Iran, Behind Turkey and Egypt
    Israel ranks among the top 25 military powers in the world — but so do several of its historical and…

    “This is another case, out of many, where a Palestinian who is suffering from personal, mental or moral issues chose to carry out a terror attack in order to find a way out of their problems,” Israel’s Shin Bet security agency had said following the attack.

    The terrorist will reportedly receive a stipend of approximately $1,000 per month from the Palestinian Authority.

    Bladon’s family said in a statement issued through the British Foreign Office, “Hannah was the most caring, sensitive and compassionate daughter you could ever wish for…Our family is devastated by this senseless and tragic attack.”

    https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/05/11/palestinian-terrorist-indicted-for-april-murder-of-british-student-in-jerusalem/

    “Kitchen Knives don’t murder Jews. Palestinians murder Jews.” Does it even matter why anymore? And again with the insanity defense. Are they crazy, are they sane, who cares? Crazy or sane, capital punishment should be mandatory and swift. The only excuse for a delay would be to torture them for information. They should never be offered their lives. Just a relief from suffering through death.

  6. Trump does not have his own plan. He is listening to others. He is over his head on this issue.

    This will be more spinning of wheels, lot of speculation and in the end failure is easy to predict. The negative outcomes of the failure is hard to forecast.

  7. @ Abolish_public_education:
    Which Hillary?

    https://gop.com/hillary-vs-clinton/

    http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/hillary-clinton-was-for-building-a-wall-with-mexico-before-she-was-against-it/

    This liberal defense on the issue of the wall is simply ridiculous. Pathetic.

    “Clinton did vote for the Secure Fence Act of 2006, which authorized building a fence along about 700 miles of the border between the United States and Mexico. For our purposes, the differences between a wall and a fence in this claim are not significant — both block people.

    But the fence Clinton backed is not nearly as expansive as the wall Trump is promoting. And in his phrasing, Trump seemed to equate the two.

    For a statement that is partially accurate but leaves out important details or takes things out of context, we rate Trump’s claim Half True.”

    http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2016/aug/15/donald-trump/donald-trump-right-hillary-clinton-once-wanted-wal/

    Thee is a link to this article

    http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/the-real-hillary/2009/03/18/0/?print

    in

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/262243/hillarys-two-faced-aipac-speech-daniel-greenfield

    Both terrific articles.

    Could this sort of collective amnesia be a byproduct of the dismissive “Oh, that’s before my time” mentality that has emerged from our youth-oriented culture run amok? The youth-oriented culture began in the 60s, the wilful cultural amnesia began in the ’80s.

    In order to counter it, will we need buttons, tee-shirts and bumper stickers that say, “Never trust anyone under 50”?

  8. @ Abolish_public_education:
    Which Hillary?

    https://gop.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-hillarys-flip-flops/

    which has a link to the more in-depth summary

    https://gop.com/hillary-vs-clinton/

    http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/hillary-clinton-was-for-building-a-wall-with-mexico-before-she-was-against-it/

    This liberal defense on the issue of the wall is simply ridiculous. Pathetic.

    “Clinton did vote for the Secure Fence Act of 2006, which authorized building a fence along about 700 miles of the border between the United States and Mexico. For our purposes, the differences between a wall and a fence in this claim are not significant — both block people.

    But the fence Clinton backed is not nearly as expansive as the wall Trump is promoting. And in his phrasing, Trump seemed to equate the two.

    For a statement that is partially accurate but leaves out important details or takes things out of context, we rate Trump’s claim Half True.”

    http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2016/aug/15/donald-trump/donald-trump-right-hillary-clinton-once-wanted-wal/

    There is a link to this article

    http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/the-real-hillary/2009/03/18/0/?print

    in

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/262243/hillarys-two-faced-aipac-speech-daniel-greenfield

    Both terrific articles.

    Could this sort of collective amnesia be a byproduct of the dismissive “Oh, that’s before my time” mentality that has emerged from our youth-oriented culture run amok? The youth-oriented culture began in the 60s, the willful cultural amnesia began in the ’80s.

    In order to counter it, will we need buttons, tee-shirts and bumper stickers that say, “Never trust anyone under 50”? Make that 57. I first recall hearing this sickening rejoinder from people who were only a year younger than I was in the mid 80s, when I was in my mid twenties.

  9. “New Hevron mayor is a terrorist and murderer
    New mayor is a Fatah terrorist who killed 6 people in a 1980 terror attack, received a life sentence – and was freed during a prisoner swap.”

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/229582

    SZ: Bodes well for autonomy, no?

    “…The villages and towns with the Arab reservations will be assigned to two lists, a white list and a black list. Those in the white list will manage their own affairs without interference from the Israeli central authorities. Residents of white-list towns may hold commuter jobs in Israeli cities and industrial parks. The local authorities in the white areas will manage their schools and other local institutions. They will collect their own taxes and may benefit from revenue sharing arrangements with the Israeli fiscal authorities, like other Israeli towns. They might be allowed to operate their own local police forces. Residents in white-listed areas will be fully and freely mobile, able to move freely within and among all white-list areas. They will be allowed to develop local industry and tourist services. Their residents will have access to Israel universities, health facilities, and other services.

    Those towns and villages in the black list will enjoy none of the above. Their residents will be denied the opportunity to hold day jobs in Israeli cities and industrial parks. They will have no access to Israeli services. They will have control over nothing. Their residents will be prevented from moving freely outside their reservation, except in cases where they wish to leave the country altogether. They will receive no shared revenues, no fiscal incentives.

    Villages and towns will be assigned to the two lists based entirely on one single factor: violence…”

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/173597/time-annex-judea-and-samaria-steven-plaut

    [My bolding for emphasis: SZ]

  10. Trump has been misinformed by the top ‘experts’ in the Jewish Establishment. Those whose financial interests are well-served by keeping the whole ‘Palestine’ lie going have done a splendid job of dissembling, with tactical assistance from the Security Services.

    Netanyahu has said, many times, that he favours a ‘Palestinian’ State… i.e. the ‘Arab (Saudi) Peace Plan. Looking at what actually goes on here in Israel, it’s impossible to keep believing that the government will change its long-term policies.

    More ‘painful concessions’ are coming, so get ready for this reality. Gaza and the entire 2005 capitulation operation demonstrated the government has the intention and the ability to do whatever it wants to Jews… while simultaneously claiming to be acting in the interests of Jews.

    Short of a radical shift in public opinion and action, we’re caught in a self-defeating ideological trap whose roots are found in the days of Ben Gurion. Dhimmitude.

  11. @ Sebastien Zorn:
    I just re-read the article i cited about the Palestinian terrorist who stabbed a helpless female British Jewish student on a train seven times until he was overpowered once he determined she was incapable of defending herself. The author said he may have been suffering from mental, personal or moral issues. Excuse me?. “Suffering from moral issues?”

    What on earth?

    So Killers of helpless Jews will always be given the benefit of the doubt and receive sympathy and cash, lots of cash – you read he’s going to get $1,000 a month in prison — while Jews who act in self-defense will always be suspect, eh?

    International Law and opinion? You can have them.

  12. @ WB:

    the entire 2005 capitulation operation demonstrated the government has the intention and the ability to do whatever it wants to Jews

    :
    Self-determination is for suckers.

  13. @ Yaakov:
    Unfortunately, this argument has little traction because the American Left, which is now half the country, would happily give the entire country away to the Indians. Or the Mexicans. The Muslims. Communists. Or anybody who hates us, generally. They’d probably let Hezbollah — currently camped in Venezuela and just on the other side of the Mexican border, unless they have sleeper agents here already — have it, if they asked. Never heard the Left talk about Hawaiians. Maybe they don’t hate us, or hate us enough to suit our home-grown loyal opposition.
    Pacific Islanders is one of the categories of people entitled to affirmative action preferential quotas. Though, to my knowledge, we don’t pay them to stab helpless people to death. Incidentally, without the walls or fences, which liberals like to deride as useless or racist, the frankenstinians would have a lot more than kitchen knives and cars to work with.

    Wow! Look at the “understanding root causes” spin the liberals have put on the musical, “Sweeney Todd, The Demon Barber of Fleet Street.”

    https://youtu.be/L_hgrfZVlJA

    Just so long as he comes from one of the approved categories of sacred cow, they’ve never met a serial killer they didn’t like. They even had a tv show, “Dexter.” Never watched it. Supposedly, about a serial killer with a heart of gold?

    Man, I can’t stand Hollywood.

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