VERY DISTURBING
Can it be that Geert Wilder likes Israel but not Judaism or Jews? His party is trying to make their living in Holland impossible.
The Ashkenazic Chief Rabbi of Israel, Yona Metzger, was shocked to discover that the Dutch Freedom Party, headed by pro-Zionist Geert Wilder, is getting on the “Ban Shechita” bandwagon. He wrote a clearly critical letter to Mr. Wilder, which Arutz Sheva has received and presents below:
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To Mr. Geert Wilders, Leader of the Freedom Party
Dear Mr. Wilders.
Both the Dutch rabbinate, as well as the leadership of the Dutch Jewish community, have extensively updated me on the status of the political debate on ritual slaughter in Holland.
I am aware of the fact that the bill to ban ritual slaughter was initiated by the Animal Party and managed to get a majorityi n the Lower House.Before the bill went to the Senate a compromise was worked out by the deputy minister of agriculture that was accepted and signed by the leadership of the Dutch Jewish and Muslim community.
Because of that, ALL the parties in the senate- with the exception of the initiator of the bill and your Freedom Party- voted against a ban and in favor of the compromise.
I am shocked and upset to learn that your party once again has adopted a total ban on ritual slaughter in its platform for the September 12th upcoming general elections.
By doing so, [it] makes the Freedom Party (except for the Animal Party) the only one in your country that excludes the Jews of [sic] the “Freedom” you claim to stand for.
Ritual slaughter and kosher food is an essential part of Jewish life, religion and tradition. By denying Jews [the right] to live according to the Torah, you will eventually force them to leave the Netherlands where they enjoyed religious freedom for centuries and are living since the 12thc entury.
Furthermore, the animal rights spokesman of your faction, Mr. Dion Graus, has announced in various statements and interviews that after a total ban on ritual slaughter has become law in the Netherlands, he will also work on legislation to prohibit import of kosher meat from abroad.
Not a single party in Europe has gone that far!! I am shocked to read the statements Mr. Graus made during the parliamentary debate.He repeatedly kept on accusing Jews of “ritual torture” of animals.
This is the classical anti-Semitic way our rites have been targeted and demonized throughout history. Jews torturing animals or murdering non- Jewish kids because their blood was needed to bake matzot for the Jewish Passover!
Dear Mr. Wilders, I am fully aware of your firm support of the Jewish state of Israel and do respect and thank you for this. But one cannot separate between the Jewish state and the Jewish people.
I therefore do urge you strongly to remove the total ban on ritual slaughter from your party platform and publicly disassociate yourself from Mr. Dion Graus who is called by the president of the Amsterdam Jewish community “a danger to the interests of Dutch Jews and Jewry in Europe at large”.
It is obvious that one cannot be at the same time a friend of Israel and the Jewish people and on the other hand support an anti- Jewish law and be friends with Mr. Dion Graus.
I hope to hear from you a.s.a.p.
Sincerely,
Rabbi Yonah Metzger
/ Thanks Ted. Most interesting. Found the following on the never boring internet! /
Christians Don’t Want Jewish Death
Democrat leader Mark Siegel stated at the DNC that “fundamentalist Christians…want Jews to die and convert so they can bring on the second coming of their Lord.”
It wasn’t Glenn Beck, John Hagee, Hal Lindsey or any other Christian who first talked about the predicted massive slaughter of Jews during what Christians call the “end times.”
It was the ancient Hebrew prophet Zechariah who as long ago as 487 B.C. predicted that two-thirds of Jewry in the “last days” will be killed (Zech. 13:8).
All true Christian leaders view this scripture with horror and sympathy and NOT with glee!
Fundamentalist Christians are actually waiting for an “any-moment rapture” to Heaven (several years before the second coming) and do not believe that any event, including this final Jewish holocaust, has to happen before their escapist rapture happens.
More shocks. Fundamentalists have recently been learning that their rapture belief was first taught in Britain in 1830 and that it wasn’t widely adopted by Americans until the early 1900s. The documentation on all this is in “The Rapture Plot” (carried by online bookstores) which also reveals for the first time that, amazingly enough, this British theory has an anti-Jewish foundation! (For more info Google “Pretrib Rapture Politics.”)
Although no one is perfect, evangelical Christians (including fundamentalists) are still the best friends of Jewish persons and Israel.
Read the verse again:
It says the land. 2/3rds of the people in the land, Eretz Yisroel. 2/3rds in the land will be cut off.
Not the people in the exile.
I am not going to get into a theological debate with you. This point here was not even about Christianity.
The point here is that, according to prophecy, Israel’s power will one day fail.
Please stop being so arrogant.
Stop being so proud of your power. Read Zechariah again.
Be humble. Depend on God, not the IDF.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Try this on for size: 1/3 died in the Holocaust, 1/3rd American Jews through assimilation and 1/3rd survives in Israel. The final in-gathering has begun.
Should Jews fear what the gentile world say or do? The nations – united or otherwise? What do they matter before the omnipotence of the Almighty?
“Why do the nations rage…the Kings of the earth set themselves and the rulers take counsel together, against the L-rd and against His anointed…He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh, the L-rd shall mock them…” (Psalms 2:1-4). The Jewish people and state cannot be destroyed.
Did a Jewish people exist for 2,000 years without state, government, or army, wandering the earth interminably from land to land, suffering pogroms and Holocaust and surviving powerful empires that disappeared into history, just by coincidence? Did a Jewish people return to its land from the far corners of the earth to set up its own sovereign state – exactly as promised in the Bible – through mere natural means? What other nation ever did such a thing? Where are the Philistines of Goliath today? Where is imperial Rome with its Latin and its gods? Who defeats armies in six days, and on the seventh they rest?
Who if not an Israel because there is a G-d in it! The Land of Israel is His divine Land; the State of Israel is His divine hand. History is not a series of random events, disjointed and coincidental. There is a Creator, a Guide, a Hand that plans and directs. There is a scenario to history. The Jew has come home for the third and last time. “But the third shall be left therein” (Zechariah 13:8). The first redemption was that from Egypt; the second, the redemption of Ezra. The third will never end” (Tanhuma, Shoftim 9)
‘We’ refers to the nation of Israel.
The last verse in Chapter 5 sets the scene and explains the situation very clearly: “I (G-d) will go, I will return to My place until they will acknowledge their guilt and seek My face; in their distress they will seek Me (Hosea 5:15). Hosea explains in verse 5 that G-d sent a clear-cut message to Israel through My prophets; you heard and refused to repent, so My offer resulted in your death sentence. How could I vindicate you after such defiance?
Then Hosea explains: “Come let us return to G-d”!
Does this refer to Jesus?
Answer: Nope.
The State of Israel is not a “political” creation. It is a religious one. No power could have prevented its birth and none can destroy it. It is the beginning of G-d’s wrath, vengeance against the nations who ignored, disdained, and humiliated Him, who found Him irrelevant, who “knew Him not.” But, it is only the beginning. How the final redemption will come, and when, depends on the Jews.
“Wilder has to defend Western Civilized Holland. Getting elected and influencing policy is more important to Western Civilization – and ultimately Jews – than whether kosher slaughter is allowed in Holland.”
You just don’t get it. And then you go on to “instruct” an observant Jew about Jewish prophesy. A typical Christian arrogance that’s been around precisely as long as Christianity. Look who’s accusing a Jew of being arrogant (an accusation which is always indicative of anti-Jewish hatred, whether latent or realized). You are as disjointed from the essence of Judaism as the fellow who remarks that Western democracy is more important than Kosher slaughter. For the Jew, even for non-observant Jews, to see a nation proscribe against any Halacha is in their eyes tantamount to a nation proscribing against the practice of Judaism altogether (and it’s probably even worst than this, only I cannot know entirely because I’m not Jewish). Sciolists like you, especially the Christian types, who imprudently and shamelessly arrogate that they know Jewish scripture (for me there is no other kind) better than the Jews themselves, are the reason so many Jews distrust Gentiles. This is what I’m saddened by. And then to read you suggest that “a little humility is in order” and that you are “saddened” by the thought of another Holocaust coming even worst than the first tells me that you are an anti-Jewish bigot and are rather delighted to tell those Jews patient enough to listen to your malefic blather. People like you are one of the primary reasons I repudiated Christianity and became a Noachide. As for guilt, you are too obtuse and utterly arrogant to ever realize the guilt every Christian will never experience because of the fact that your religion (Christianity) precipitated the Nazi Holocaust against the Jewish people.
Robert S Barnes Said:
I’m afraid you’re misinformed. This stun ban will only affect Kosher, not Halal, because the moslems allow stunning. Geert Wilders knows that.
Even if halal did not allow stunning, you are saying that Geert Wilders would ban immigration, wait for Muslims to leave, then reverse his ritual slaughter stun ban support for Jews? He made it clear, that Jews should ‘assimilate’ too.
I also question the belief that banning muslim immigration would affect EU policy towards Israel, including Holland’s when you consider that the EU needs the oil and investments. In the USA the moslems only form about 1.5 million in number, the population is miniscule. Yet the State department bends over backwards for them because of oil and foreign trade.
Let us suppose his party were to win. What would it mean for Israel? The PVV doesn’t want to get involved in any foreign war or take sides in their conflicts. They havn’t made an exception for Israel.
The bottom line is, if Geert Wilders got his way, he’d make Holland a little island with inhabitants who are all of Dutch descent, supposedly including himself (half indonesian) with a ban on anyone immigrating. He and his party would be Israel supporters. What does that mean in practical terms?
Israel and the Jews have NO gentile friends – we should NEVER count on gentiles
I told Ted years ago that Wilders cannot be believed – and Ted said that I am an extremist
I am not Ted, but you are naive
This is really very simple. He wants to make life difficult for religious Muslims and force them to either assimilate or leave. If Muslims can’t find hallal meat, they’ll eat kosher meat as a substitute. The fact that this happens to hurt religious Jews is simply collateral damage and not intentional.
“For we Jews it’s not minor but a major commandment. How far removed from Judaism is your Christianity. They are polar opposites.”
Exactly, Yamit. Well said. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
As for Gurt Wilders, “A little folly outweighs wisdom and honour.” A perfect example of so-called “Christian Zionism.” It is inevitable that these imperfections (symptomatic of Christianity and Islam) should come to light. “A crooked tree casts a crooked shadow.” Zionism is an exclusively Jewish halacha, the same way Aliya is, the same way Kashrut is. A Gentile can be “pro-Israel” but a Gentile cannot be a Zionist. Only a Jew can be a Zionist. I remember you saying you didn’t like that term, Yamit. But this is what I mean when I use the term Zionist. I do not agree with Gentiles (especially Christians) sycophantically appellating themselves with the term Zionist: it is improper and it is contrary to the Torah. The Christians talk of the “spiritual Jew” in their NT. There can be no such thing as a “spiritual Jew”. There is only the Jew and the non-Jew. “A Jew is a Jew is a Jew.” When Christians use the term “spiritual Jew,” the context of that phrase is found in the canard born with Christianity which accuses the Jews of murdering their “christ”. Any Christian who denies this is either intellectually dishonest or does not understand the New Testament and the anti-Jewish sophisms constructed by Paul of Tarsus.
Bill Narvey Said:
Bill, Wilders has already refused to do so. A petition signed by European and even an American Rabbi who flew specifically to influence him, was refused. Wilders is anti Judaism, he is an atheist now prior to being a Catholic. Support for Israel by European ultra nationalists like Wilders, even if they are Pro Israel, does not translate to support for Jews in the diaspora, and Euro Jews are leftists mostly, just like American Jews are.
CuriousAmerican
Quit justifying your position on theological grounds which are yours. Atheist and leftist Jews are still Jews. We won’t support anything anti Judaic even if we don’t practice ourselves. That is our choice. It’s the choice of our observant tribe to keep the Jewish torch alive. Us atheists and agnostics will support them.
Post Christian Europe identifies with leftists and that suits European Jews. Let them be. We support Israel as leftists, we need to have a lobby that the majority can identify with, and we can help Israel as leftists.
Meira
Proud atheist non observant Jew.
Zechariah 14 speaks of a future day when the armies of the world will be surrounding Jerusalem. So obviously Jewish scripture predicts a day when Jewish power will not be so strong.
So sadly, another major Holocaust is coming. I take NO pleasure in this. Two thirds of the world’s Jews are predicted to die. This is twice as bad as what Hitler did.
Hosea gives the reason for the Master of the Universe’s delay:
Hosea further elaborates
I do not want to get into a theological debate, so you are free to figure out what guilt Israel has to admit; but whatever that great sin is, it will delay the Master of the Universe’s rescue of His people, until they admit their guilt – you can decide what that is.
But the point is: SADLY, one day, Israel will not be so strong. I take no joy in this.
Those who depend on Israel’s strength will collapse in that day. For the prophets have said that strength will evaporate on that day.
The Master of the Universe has said that Israel has still to admit some guilt before he totally restores the Davidic Kingdom. (See above)
This is not a debate. This is your scripture.
Until that day, a bit of humility is in order.
I have quoted only Jewish scripture.
Christianity is the belief in the Moshiach that the Rabbis rejected.
However, Ted has forbidden both of us to get into theological debates.
You, however, let no opportunity to insult people go by.
@ CuriousAmerican:
There is some truth in what you say but then some of us are not so ensorcelled by those who appear to support Israel by emitting soothing to our ears words and believe or equate those words with being pro Jewish and at least not anti-Judaism. They are in my view at best naive.
Speaking truth you don’t like or agree with is now called Totalitarian?
Your implied threat?
You have I’ll bet, wet dreams of our diminished or evaporated power; but you must realize that our power stems from the ultimate universal power and to fight us is to fight that penultimate source. You will lose just as your fore-bearers have.
Somebody above said:
It is not all as black and white as some people above say. I’d say they have never been to Holland or Europe. A lot of Americans are completely clueless about European politics. What they don’t realise is that the Dutch are more anti American than they are anti Moslem, and Geert Wilder is seen as in league with Amerian righters.
The Moslems may be anti Israel but they like leftist Jews, it was a Dutch Jew running against Wilders that Dutch Moslems backed. Job Cohen was the beloved not only of Dutch Morrocans and other Moslems, but a lot of Wilders supported defected to his party. He also has the support of the Christian Democrats and the leftist majority. Wilders has no chance of beating Cohen. It’s true that there are attacks on Jews from Moslems, but most are from nationalis fanatics and right wingers and nazis. European Jews are leftists and see Moslems as allies not enemies, there is anti Semitism, but there is a surprising lot of bonding too. In Monaco, Jews and Muslims share.
“Yes We Cohen”http://momentmagazine.wordpress.com/2010/07/01/yes-we-cohen/
Job Cohen, the former mayor of Amsterdam, made a bid for the premiership as head of the Dutch Labour Party on a platform of integration and sympathy. Cohen’s party won the second most seats in parliament, six seats ahead of Wilders’ party and one seat behind Mark Rutte’s fiscally conservative People’s Party for Freedom and Democracy. Cohen’s platform lay in distinct opposition to Wilders’, as he championed traditional Dutch values of tolerance and acceptance.
The non-traditional aspect of Cohen’s resume is his Judaism.
Despite the common perception among American Jews that the two Semitic populations must necessarily be at odds, Cohen’s example illustrates that in fact, Jews and Muslims can be most successful allies against a greater evil: intolerance.
@ CuriousAmerican:
It’s not my view it’s Judaisms’. There is a commandment applicable at all times for all Jews to conquer and settle the Land of Israel. It is a given that whenever possible a Jew must strive to return to the Land of Israel. To reject the Land according to our sages is the equivalent of rejecting G-d (ours not yours).
I don’t recall ever calling you a Nazi but a Christian missionary who hates Judaism and Jews. I believe you have a Christian eschatological interest in Israel; some positive some negative but we Jews and Judaism are your theological enemies.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Which is proof that Christianity is a belief in false gods. For G-d believing and G-d fearing Jews all life is holy, endowed with G-d’s spirit.
Jews care about all of G-d’s creatures and creations. Proverbs 12:10: “The righteous person considers the soul (life) of his or her animal.”
The Torah prohibits Jews from causing tsa’ar ba’alei chayim, any unnecessary pain to living creatures, even psychological pain.
Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch, an outstanding 19th century philosopher, author, and Torah commentator, eloquently summarizes the Jewish view on treatment of animals:
Christians?
For we Jews it’s not minor but a major commandment. How far removed from Judaism is your Christianity. They are polar opposites.
So Jews who do not agree with you deserve to perish.
And you call me the Nazi?!
When Wilders supports Israel is a hero; but let him deviate one stroke from the party line and he is anti-Jewish.
What a totalitarian mindset you have?
This all or nothing attitude will win you no friends – NOT THAT YOU CARE – and even turn off your fellow Jews. It is an arrogance born of power. If Israel’s power ever evaporates, what will you do?
@ Y.Osher:
@ CuriousAmerican:
The voluntary devastation of the Jewish population is not historically unique. Most Jews refused to leave Egypt during the Exodus, to leave Babylonia with Ezra, or to leave America and Europe for Israel.
In Nehemiah’s time, Jews intermarried prodigiously. Today we cannot keep pace with assimilation: the entirety of Western Jewry perished in only two generations; the intermarriage rate among the young atheists has hit 90 percent.
So the divine plan for Jews is either to let us perish as a people, or to be left only in Israel. The messianic scenario involves substantially all Jews moving to the Land of Israel. The Bible recognizes King Cyrus a messiah even though most Jews refused to return to Israel; the messiah need not return everyone. There are two ways to assure that almost all Jews return: make everyone return, or make those who don’t return perish. Jews refused the first option, so we may be witnessing the second one unfolding.
CuriousAmerican, your views are not shared by the Dutch. Wilders has no support. He is against immigration not just all immigration. He has no political clout, and in actual fact most of his partys funds comes from American right wing. In Holland he is seen as an oddball. Neither Holland, nor the EU is going to ban Muslim immigration, because if they did, they too would face a ban or the end of their continent. They cannot do without Muslim money. Holland cannot cut itself off from Europe, it can put a cap on immigration, but that is the right of every country.
Yours is a pipedream, and Dutch Jews will be the only victims here. Why don’t you try to find out how Wilders is viewed in Holland and Europe. In fact he is the one who is seen as a foreigner, his party is seen as being anti Dutch.
I daresay, you and AJ being Christians don’t really care about these issues, because like Wilders you don’t like Judaism.
Half of the Jews in America are functional atheists. So what?
And being Dutch, shouldn’t Holland be Wilder’s first interest? If he accomodates the Jews, loses the election, and Holland is overrun by Muslims, what has it profitted Israel?
This forum has to stop this all or nothing attitude. Just as Jews put Jews first, allow Gentiles to be Gentile. Compromise is in order.
I myself feel that a kosher ritual slaughter ban is stupid. The bolt gun method sprays brain matter into the meat, which can spead Mad Cow disease. Anesthesia poisons the meat with chemicals.
I look upon kosher as more humane for the consumer; and I am a Christian Gentile. I do not care about the animal.
But in the grand scheme of things, this is minor.
Wilder has to defend Western Civilized Holland. Getting elected and influencing policy is more important to Western Civilization – and ultimately Jews – than whether kosher slaughter is allowed in Holland.
Don’t get as nutty as the Muslims.
Geert Wilders and the PVV are anti-EU and anti-Islam, NOT anti-Judaism. The Netherlands are being overrun by Moslems, over a million now. In certain cities – especially Amsterdam and Rotterdam – there are already whole neighbourhoods that are unliveable for anyone else.
Halal meat is being pushed – often surreptitiously – on the unwilling or unaware general public.
The Jewish community in the Netherlands is tiny. Orthodox Jews are harassed in the streets, just like non-Moslem women and homosexual men.
In many high schools, the Holocaust cannot be discussed and taught anymore, for fear of Moslem reprisals by students and parents.
In this atmosphere, it is impossible not to include kosher slaughter in the proposed ban on halal slaughter which is the actual problem. Anyway, the new law has been torpedoed in the Senate (de Eerste Kamer), though NOT for the love of Judaism.
The PVV is a staunch supporter of Israel, while most other parties are openly anti-Israel or even antisemitic.
I have long maintained that gentiles and even some Jews can be pro Israel based on a lot of reasons but also anti Jewish. Ted disagreed, but here is another example supporting my position. Many commenters on this site are also pro Israel but anti Jewish.
What we do not get is the fact that Wilder’s party is both anti-muslim and antisemitic. One does not preclude the other
I do not believe bolt guns are safe as they spread Brain matter (and possibly Mad Cow) into the bloodstream.
Sooner or later it had to come to this: what’s more important, to be accommodating to the Jews or save Holland from the Muslim invasion. Well, the answer is always going to be that Jews are less important than self interest.
Bill Levinson Said:
It’s not at all difficult to find the YouTube videos showing how the bolt guns way too often do not do the trick. Yet I don’t see anyone banning the bolt guns.
Wilders is an atheist CuriousAmerican, he won’t come to the aid of Jews, he rejected an appeal from Rabbis before, and he will do it again. He supports Israel, but he has no support in Holland now, no political power, and can’t do anything for Israel.
Y.Osher, it’s not funny. Jews should leave Holland if they want to and not because of this. Besides, they won’t go to Israel, they’ll settle elsewhere in Europe, in Norway, when Jews left they settled elsewhere in Europe.
I think Wilders has a Jewish father (or so it is rumored). He is Catholic.
I doubt he will do anything against Jews.
Not so much disturbing, but puzzling. I expect Wilder’s response will clarify his stance. If it is as the Rabbis says it is and Wilders stands by his position, that then will be most disturbing and will raise questions as to just where Wilders’ head is at when it comes to Jews and Israel.
I thought’d you’d be happy that Wilders has this stance, Ted 🙂
This will force Dutch Jews to come home to Israel.