By Ted Belman
For the record, the settlements are not illegal either because the Fourth Geneva Convention doesn’t make them so or it doesn’t apply to these lands.
Netanyahu shares some of the blame because he never embraced the Levy Report and never makes the case that the settlements are legal. He just argues they are not an obstacle to peace. He left the field wide open for the UN to pass this resolution.
I believe that this resolution is ultra vires the UN Charter. The UN has no right to set the borders. It may only act to keep the peace. Also remember the hateful Zionism is Racism resolution was repealed.
Something more is needed than just reducing or cutting off US financial support for the UN or the PA. And for certain there will never be a negotiated solution.
It is time for unilateral action. Israel and the US should decide what to do in keeping with the 2016 GOP platform which was unanimously passed. THEN DO IT.
Our response must wait for Jan 20 as there is still time for a Chap 7 resolution to be passed.
I think this resolution will serve as a catalyst for good things for Israel.
yamit82 Said:
First, please be specific… which specific suggestions do you disagree should be implemented by the GOI and why?
Second, show how a specific implemented suggestion would be linked to the specific individual reaction you speculated upon?
yamit82 Said:
this is what they have been trying to do all along and the current policy has not ended this.. show specifically which of my suggestions would be different than the road being traveled now.
yamit82 Said:
starangely, you are the one always clamoring for Israel to stop receiving US weapons and aid… now there is a US president coming in who appears more supportive.. and that combination when supportive proves positive for marketing. who is avoiding Israeli weapons due to BDS now…. those buying weapons now will not boycott the weapons later. Plus, if the USA strongly supports Israel most others will step in line… the US browbeats everyone into their agenda by shutting down the banking system. This is why I suggest for BB to talk less, act more, and coordinate in advance with Trump if he sees trump is amenable.
yamit82 Said:
Which nations tourism will dry up, and show how that nations tourism habit will change from current behavior. they vote for things and then they come, buy and invest. Its mainly the euros making a problem, so send them some muslims to keep them busy. So far I see no further threat from implementing the suggestions.. all are already operable policies obtaining in other nations.
yamit82 Said:
this could happen when Israel shrinks… history shows that when Israel left areas it became worse… jews may not want to risk going to a jewish small ghetto smaller than rhode island. those that talk about shrinking Israel ignore the evidence that the most likely scenario of leaving the areas is more wars and then further destabilization and threats over the area that is left.
yamit82 Said:
I can only answer to specific scenarios where you show evidence that your scenarios will obtain
If you want a general or meaningless generic answer then I would say that if all those things happen you can go back to doing what you are doing now and give them what they want because that is the only place this MO can go. In fact, if that is the future scenario then just give it to them now. Lots of jews in Israel and the diaspora are under attack over this issue… if the beleif is that giving it up will work then just do it now… but I beleive that the next day they will go for haifa and tel aviv.
here is a good answer
stevenl Said:
hmmm… its likely they will take what is offered and then look for more… but it will always end worse.
I have a question for you… why is it that the PM, the president and the GOI NEVER state this truth:
“JEWISH SETTLEMENT IN JUDEA SAMARIA IS LEGAL AND LEGITIMATE”
now, as a result of their oversight for decades, even the USA came out and stated that they were “ILLLEGAL” whereas before they were satisfied with the lie that they were illegitimate…. see give an inch and they take an arm.
Dont you think it weird that none of them can EVER say those simple words… just as an opinion… every other nation in the world would state their rights as they see it… why not Israel?
You cannot blame anyone else for not saying those words when those words are NEVER said by the leaders of Israel. The UNSC resolution merely states what Rivlin, Bibi and the GOI have defacto admitted.
The UNSC resolution is a direct result of the repetition of the canard which is never challenged by Israel. Most ludicrous, is that even in the midst of all BB whining about the UN and Obama he never mentioned the Jewish right to live in all of Israel. I find that pathetic, even if he cant implement it, at least say it. I think BB just reflects the same attitudes of Israelis, which is why they also dont find it strange that Jews in Israel can be illegal and illegitimate.
Dont you find this odd?
Right now I see BB engaged in his usual MO.. assessments, calling in ambassadors, but nothing about the core issue… in fact, strangely… after he provoked the issue before obama left with the new bill… he is asking everyone not to demand a change, annexation, settling… I am seeing a lot of the usual noise…. but no meat. A drama, a conflict, BB fighting the world with words, the knight in armor….. and yet there are direct simple and not so large things he can do in YS… he can also change the paradigm that anti semitic abuse in Israel is acceptable when it should be a capital punishment. I predict he will do nothing meaningful or paradigm changing, losing the opportunity. These sort of things pop up whenever BB is doing nothing. In the end, he will continue to do nothing and present himself as the champion against the world.
What is the plan B of the “200 security officers”: if the Pal reject everything they are offered!!!
Review the Levy report, discuss the options with the US and make a Hobson’s choice offer to the Pal. The International community will GIVE nothing to Israel. The US may need to use some convincing that it would be to everybody interest to settle in spite of the Pal who will never accept anything.
The US needs to lead by example! If the Pal refuse (they will refuse) then IL does what is in her best interest regardless of the Pal. No one can claim the excuse of supporting the Pal since what they want what is impossible. We do not live in the world of the impossible. No one can give to the Pal the right to destroy someone else although that is precisely what the world is trying to do. . There are plenty of legalities on the Israeli side for her to go ahead. Let the rest of the world PROVE legally that Israel is in the wrong. Otherwise the International community will continue to rewrite history ad nauseam! Procrastination is a BAD strategy and it gives the initiative to the enemy. Never do THAT!
At worst a “Grand Bargain”!
@ bernard ross:
I will play devils advocate. What will you do if your suggestions were implemented when the UN or individual nations boycott Israel economically, academically and in all other areas important to the State of Israel today? What will you suggest we do when foreign investment dries up? What do you suggest when we lose international customers for our necessary export products including weapons? When tourism dries up? When immigration dries up? when Israelis start leaving the country in significant numbers? When the price of everything except housing goes up? No PM would last very long in office would they?
An Israel in such a state would be more opento attack by our enemies…. What is your ans to the above?
when the arabs and the world saw that the jews were willing to give up their rights, their patriomony and their heritage to have some peace they realized that they will just keep doing it until the Jews cave. If this opportunity is not taken to reverse giving up Jewish rights then there is no reason for them to stop at YS… the whole of Israel will be claimed back through constant attacks on the peace of the Jews…
BB should say that the jews were willing to give up some of the land that belongs to the Jews for decades but the failure of that approach neccessitats a paradigm shift. Give them peace for peace and war for war. As long as the Jews can be threatened and cajoled into giving up what they own then why not just keep it up, after all, logic and morality have nothing to do with it so they might as well just continue and go for the whole hog.
Zorn posted an article on 200 commanders retired shouting to rush to give the pals what they want… no wonder everything went bad on that advice.
With Trump in power it may be wise to go back to and review the Levy report!
Israel CANNOT procrastinate and allow the world to rewrite history the way it is going on today and yesterday the way they want. Christians tks to Obama and the pope are disappearing FAST from the ME and N Africa.
I see developing with Netanyahu the usual drama conflict which usually goes nowhere… recalling ambassadors,holding back funds from UN(likely temporary as with pal fund withholding)…. but I dont see concrete steps which demonstrate this maxim:
“JEWISH SETTLEMENT IN JUDEA SAMARIA IS LEGAL AND LEGITIMATE” (LOL, some folks here thought I had forgotten that lovely mantra which needs repeating at least daily)
so what could netanyahu do which actually demonstrates on the ground the contradicting mantra to the UN and helps to facilitate the settling of Jews in….of all place…. the homeland of Judea Samaria, here is a couple:
1- the complete banning of all UN personnel from YS except for direct humanitarian purposes, as approved by Israel, and only in A & B… no UN personnel in C. This would curtail their false news propaganda activities.
2- the banning of all BDS and anti zionist orgs from area C. Right now we have an anti zionist gov and court which only bans nationalists, settlers and Jews.
3-the banning of entry to Israel of all foreigners, including Jews, who are associated with BDS and anti zionism orgs.. including all churches so engaged.
4- the declaration of persona non grata of foreign diplomats engaging in anti Israel activities. the arrest and jailing of non diplomatic personnel engaged in illegally bldg muslim homes in C.
5- the declaration of a paradigm shift in policy BACK to the settling of Jews in YS followed by new settlement starts OUTSIDE the obama/euro designated ghetto boundaries of the major blocks.
6- the declaration by the GOI that Jewish settlement is legal and legitimate in all areas west of the Jordan river and that the banning or obstruction of Jewish settlement is a serious anti semitic crime with mandatory loss of citizenship, residence and deportation. That the propanda of illegal and illegitimate Jews is a crime of incitement to anti semitism with severe mandatory senten ces given. The declaration of Israels right to pursue, incarcerate and liquidate anti semitic criminals in foreign lands and declaring Israel courts rights to indict foreigners.
there is one problem in all this….
the GOI, PM and President of Israel HAVE NOT DISAGREED with the allegation that Jewish settlement in YS is illegal or illegitimate… hence they are in defacto agreement with the anti semitic criminals who committed the crime of proagandizing that blood libel through the UN.
You cannot complain about others when you are doing the same, defacto by ommission…… if they say Jews are illegal or illegetimate and the GOI, President and PM NEVER disagree with or contradict the asserion and allegation…. then one should expect that people take it as truth, fact… that the jews are land thieves… at least according to Netanyahu, Rivlin,the GOI and half the Jews of Israel. Hence we should expect that the lie and blood libel of illegal and illegitimate Jews in the Jewish homeland will continue to be reinforced by the President, PM and GOI of Israel each day that they fail to declare the opposite.
Now that the world believes it is true about YS they will move on to Tel Aviv…. its the same thing.
NOBALLS to do list 1) cancel regulation law. 2) stuff my face with donuts, 3)encourage e. u to build more quicker in J S. 4)more donuts, 5) return not only deadens but live ones to pa, 6) try some latkes, 7) give terror prisoners better cable t.v, 8) try some burger king donut bun burgers, 9) welcome abarse to his new home in JERUSALEM, 10-11-12-etc donuts before all else. 100) congrat ban on a job well done, 101) be sure abarse invites me to his new parliament built of stone from the wailing wall, 102) forgot ice cream goes with donuts, 103) holiday in gaza. 104) let all know my 3-4-3 is better than conte’s
sue u. n for violation of it’s charter, aticle 80,have the u.n legally wound up. remove NO BALLS as pm. he should have had danny d inform at the intro by the spanyard that ISRAEL has in accordance with international law declared sovereignty over J. S and Gaza. now the door is open and the terrorist has a free entry.
@ watsa46:
UN Chapter 7 resolution allows the UN to use force and or sanctions to enforce their resolution. This resolution was bad enough but it was not a chapter 7 resolution.
The war of the West and their Muslim allies against the Jews goes UN-abated.
First time since the birth of Israel that a pro-IL president will enter the WH.
Palestinians must be offered an Hobson’s choice or be denied any “state entity”.
Time to DRAIN the UN swamp!
What is chap 7 resolution?
Obama decision practically endorses the anti-Jews UNESCO resolutions.
@ Bear Klein:
Capital Cities – Kangaroo Court (Official)
https://youtu.be/CJinWua98NA
Moderation???
Yes legally speaking if Israel were ever in fair court it could prevail legally on the rights to all of Judea/Samaria.
The world is not run by fair legal hearings.
The Security Council including Obama is being run by those who wish to put the Jewish State in a box and punish it for not being good little Jews and saying yes Boss where do you say Jews may live and what part of Israel may I live in.
They in essence have made it impossible for Israel ever to get to a real peace treaty with the Arab States unless Israel where willing to pull out of Jerusalem and Judea/Samaria and move about 900,000 Jews.
So there will be no peace treaties. Peace can come only from strength in the middle east and many other places of the world also.
Peace can only come when the illusion of a Palestinian State is destroyed. Israel needs to annex Judea/Samaria starting with Area C after Jan. 20, 2017. Israel should also annex any part of Area B it needs for security and close the PA and destroy the Oslo Accords and stop the funding of the PA.
Yes. And as you pointed out in your terrific article:
“According to international law, the Jewish people are the sole beneficiary of Self-Determination in the land that was Mandatory Palestine. The rights of the Jewish People to Palestine are enshrined in three legally binding international treaties. These rights have not expired and are still in full force and effect..”
http://www.think-israel.org/belman.israelownssamariajudea.html
Ted, you are correct it is time for unilateral action.
1. Build Build Build and Build some more!!!
2. After January 20, 2017 start annexation process of Area C and anything needed for security in B.
3. Any trouble in any Area PA Areas remove the PA and start martial law there.
4. Deport or imprison anyone involved in terrorism including support activities.
5. Declare the Oslo process over and stop funding the PA. Confiscate any Hamas, Islamic Jihad or other terrorist organizations properties and funds.