By Ted Belman
A week ago I posted a video under the title Martin Sherman Debunks the Two State Solution and Offers Alternatives
Many people viewed the video but many more asked for the transcript so they could read what he had to say rather than spend 1.5 hours to watch it.
What follows is a synopsis of his talk followed by many articles he has written on the subject.
Rethinking Palestine: The Humanitarian Approach
By Dr. Martin Sherman
1. If Israel is to continue to exist as the permanent democratic nation-state of the Jewish people, it must adequately address two imperatives:
(a) The Geographic ImperativeIt cannot make the territorial concessions in Judea/Samaria necessary for a viable Palestinian state without critically compromising its minimum security requirements and rendering itself geographically untenable; and
(b) The Demographic ImperativeIt cannot incorporate the Palestinian Arabs resident in these areas into its society as enfranchised citizens, without rendering itself demographically untenable.
2. Israel must therefore maintain control over the territory while inducing the relocation and rehabilitation of the Palestinian Arab population elsewhere. The only non-coercive way to achieve this is with positive inducements – chiefly generous economic incentives.
3. However, there is strong international support for the establishment of a Palestinian state in Judea/Samaria. What fuels this support is the perceived legitimacy of the Palestinian narrative, according to which the Palestinian Arabs are a distinct people, comprising a cohesive national entity that strives to exercise national sovereignty in a defined homeland. As long as the perceived validity of this narrative persists, the international pressure for Palestinian statehood will persist.
4. Clearly then, if the intellectual fuel that drives international pressure for a Palestinian state is the perceived validity of the Palestine narrative, forestalling this pressure requires the deconstruction of this narrative. Such deconstruction should – and can – be based principally on the deeds, declarations and documents of the Palestinians.
5. This narrative-deconstruction must be attained by an assertive public diplomacy offensive, adequately funded and appropriately energized. Without achievement of this objective, there will be no conceptual space in the discourse to advance Zionist-compliant alternatives to the TSS (two state solution).
6. Deconstruction of the Palestinian narrative will obviate the need to deal with the Palestinian Arabs as a cohesive national entity, and instead facilitate addressing them as an amalgam of fate-stricken individuals who, for decades, have been disastrously misled into their current unenviable position by cruel, cunning and corrupt cliques.
Approaching the Palestinians Arabs on the individual, rather than on the collective, level makes way for policy paradigms that call for:
(a) The de-politicization of the context of the predicament, and the nature of its resolution; and
(b) The “atomization” (individualization) of the implementation of that resolution.
8. This enables the formulation of crucial elements of actionable policy that do not require reaching agreement with any Arab collective or political entity –something increasingly implausible in the post-“Arab Spring” climate – but rather the accumulated acquiescence of individuals seeking to enhance their well-being.
Humanitarian instead of political
Depoliticizing the context of the Palestinian Arabs’ predicament will not, in itself, dissipate that predicament, or render the need to do so any less pressing. But what it will do is provide a totally new dimension along which to pursue policies to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian impasse, and new methodologies by which to do so.
Thus, rather than strive for an unattainable political solution, energies should be channeled along humanitarian lines
This will lead –almost inexorably–to the formulation of a policy prescription based on the eminently liberal (as opposed to “illiberal” rather than “conservative”) principles of:
1. Eliminating ethnic discrimination toward the Palestinian Arabs as (a) refugees and as (b) residents in the Arab world.
2. Providing individual Palestinian Arabs the freedom of choice to determine their future and that of their families.
These principles translate into a comprehensive tripartite proposal, whose constituent components should be seen as a mutually interactive, integrative whole:
1. Dissolution or radical restructuring of UNRWA (the United Nations Relief and Works Agency) to bring the treatment of Palestinian refugees into line with universal international norms.
2. Resolute insistence on the cessation of ethnic discrimination against Palestinian Arabs in the Arab world and of the prohibition on their acquiring citizenship of countries in which they have resided for decades.
3. Generous relocation loans provided directly to individual Palestinian Arab breadwinners/family heads, resident in Judea/Samaria (and subsequently, in Gaza) to allow them to build better futures for themselves, and their dependents, in third-party countries of their choice.
Evidence of feasibility
Strong anecdotal and statistical evidence exists indicating that there is widespread desire among the Palestinians to emigrate if given the opportunity. This opportunity could be afforded them by providing relocation finance.
Withholding financial “artificial respiration” for the dysfunctional Palestinian authority –thereby letting it collapse –will also provide a powerful disincentive to remain and suffer the economic consequences of such a collapse.
Who will accept them?
Since the Palestinians will not be arriving as penniless refugees but relatively wealthy émigrés, in terms of average global GDP per capita, there will be considerable economic benefits for the host countries, whose economies will receive large influxes (potentially billions) of capital. Absorption can be made more palatable by offering host countries additional benefits (for example the funds currently funneled to UNRWA).
How much will it cost?
I estimate the total cost – to be spread over about a decade and a half –at about US$ 200 billion. This might appear an excessively high sum, but several things need to be kept in mind:
First, the absolute cost is largely irrelevant and must be compared to the cost of other alternatives – such as the establishment of a Palestinian state – which also carry a multi-billion price tag.
Secondly, it will entail a fraction (around a quarter) of the cost that the US incurred in its largely unsuccessful wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Thirdly spread over a decade and half Israel could shoulder most the cost itself, with the burden being around what the defense budget was in the 1980s. If other OECD countries were included, the entire program could be executed at an imperceptible cost in terms of their GDP.
Dr. Martin Sherman is Director of the Israeli Institute for Strategic Studies
IN MY JERUSALEM POST COLUMN
PALESTINE: WHAT SHERLOCK HOLMES WOULD SAY
PREVENTING ‘PALESTINE‘ PART II
PREVENTING ‘PALESTINE‘ PART III
THE HUMANITARIAN APPROACH: RESPONDING TO READERS – PART I
tHE HUMANITARIAN APPROACH: RESPONDING TO READERS – PART II
OTHER PUBLICATIONS
RETHINKING PALESTINE: A PARADIGM SHIFT FROM THE POLITICAL TO THE HUMANITARIAN
SHIFTING THE PALESTINE PARADIGM: FROM THE POLITICAL TO THE HUMANITARIAN
THE PALESTINIAN PROBLEM: A REAL SOLUTION
http://www.jerusalemsummit.org/eng/hs_short_eng.htm
CuriousAmerican Said:
Of couse they can, I have always said during arab spring they might change and attack Israel. but that is always an ongoing possibility for which Israel must continue to spend billions on military even with so called peace agreements. Better to spend the money on military solutions unless the price is so cheap and has the added benefit of the euro destination to lessen euro jew killing funding. emmigration and “peace” plans will not lessen the required military expenditure and guarantees, therefore up the military and drive them across the borders each time they start a war or riot. Once they are in syria and lebanon or any area without the benefit of a peace treaty the arabs will have to deal with them, pay for them or suffer destabilization and civil war… all being excellent options.
CuriousAmerican Said:
and yet all the muslim migrants are flocking in droves to europe, even paying to go without any economic security and physical guarantees of safety. You want them to be paid afortune by jews to go where they are not interest when every day they are showing you where they want to go. and we already know that Europe is very positive to accpting them, proclaiming multi culturalism,rescuing them daily by the thousands, admoshing the jews for not doing the same. the euros say they want them and that they are peaceful. Israel should find ways to facilitate their emigration to europe. the netwroks already exist, the pals are already paying to leave….. why do you distract the jews to make them pay billlions for that which the pals are already paying for on their own????
You keep talking about who will not pay but all those you say will not pay are already paying the pals living, shelter, etc They can save their money in the ME and pay it out in welfare in europe instead. Notice that the immigrants did not ask their permission but still got the pay on arrival. Proving it is best not to ask.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Pals are paying 10k to leave right now from gaza to europe without coercion or a plan….. DUH???????? ( I advise you to steer clear of business and economics)
CuriousAmerican Said:
The fact is that your main point of these nations accepting millions of muslim pals is unsupported. Have you secured any undertaking by any one of these nations to accept large masseds of pal muslims? Certainly this documentation is the pillar of your plan….. do you have one letter from a SA gov?
My plans are unilateral and depends on no permission from anyone but yours is a farce without that evidence. you need to get to work securing welcome letters from the govs you tout before you start your Jew bilking scheme..
CuriousAmerican Said:
I already advised you to take your ritalin as you continue to be scattered and unfocused: you mix me up with others, I did not say that,your points are unrelated to my comments, etc.
CuriousAmerican Said:
irrelevant to my comment regarding the 2000 year stalking, slaughter, defamation and libel of christians and euros
CuriousAmerican Said:
they got this from the christians…. remember that Islam incorporated christianity at its root. A natural marriage of esau and Ishmael.
CuriousAmerican Said:
the fire is kept burning by the euro christian jew defamers and killers. Today they are still inciting and paying the muslims to killthe jews even while their own christian brothers heads are chopped by their own pets. their insane obsession blinds them, this was observed long ago by ishmael If the euros are being plagued by their pets it will mitigate the effects of their blood lust on the Jews. it is not just vengeance and not bigoted, it is an intelligent strategy to foil the proven serial, chronic, congenital, jew killers in europe. think of arab spring and how much it has helped Israel and the jews and then I am sure you will understand what a good idea it would be for europe.
CuriousAmerican Said:
LOL, is anyone catching on to this pathology yet?
I meant to write 30 Million people for Peru, not 30,000 Million.
Dr. Sherman, citing Arab polls, has shown that right now 44% of young Palestinians would take the money and leave.
That was nine years ago.
Nine years?!
Had the payment plan been applied nine years ago, can you imagine how many Arabs would have left by now?
44% x 2,000,000 = 880,000 – mostly young – leaving only 1,120,000 Arabs left, shifted towards the elderly,
Had Obama not spent $4 Billion trying to ram down a peace plan on everyone, he could have used that money to move 40,000 Arabs @ $100 K each.
I was furious about that.
But likewise, a Jewish family paying $1 million dollars for a Bar Mitvah could have paid to move 10 Palestinians out. Every little bit helps.
Wasted opportunities.
URUGUAY
Uruguay has only about 300 Muslims out of a 3.5 Million population
Uruguay has liberal immigration laws. Moving 35,000 Muslims to Uruguay would only make Uruguay 1% Muslim. At that low level, Islam would die out.
CHILE
Chile is 99.925% Christian or Jewish, out of a population of 17 Million. Even Chilean Arabs are over 99% Christian.
Moving 150,000 Arabs to Chile would increase Chile to still less than 1% Muslim.
Would the Chileans accept them? The Christian Chilean Palestinians?
They already have started to accept them.
These are Christian Palestinians welcoming a few Muslim immigrants.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJGl2jVAxu8
(Trailer for a documentary)
150,000 Palestinians @ $100,000 each = $15 Billion US.
If you can get Christian to chip in, I have no problem, but Jews are going to have to chip in, also.
If you can get Saudi Arabia to subsidiza an Arab defeat, I have no problem; but don’t hold your breath.
PERU
Peru has 30,000 Million people. Only 1 in 5,000 are Muslim.
150,000 Palestinians to Peru $100,000 each = $15 Billion US. Peru would still be less than 1/2 of 1% Muslim but $15 Billion richer.
The deal would be, offer the Arab a visa, and he does not get the money until he lands in Lima, or Santiago, or Montevideo.
I doubt a Muslim country would take them.
I have crunched these numbers.
WHY NOT EUROPE?
Because $100,000 would set up a person for life in South America. It would not set them up in Europe or the USA.
THIS IS DOABLE! EMINENTLY!
I have been writing about this for years. I have come independently to numbers very similar to Dr. Sherman’s.
My first guess was $300 Billion, but when I realized the Palestinians exaggerated their numbers in Judea and Samaria, I downgraded the estimate to a lower $200 Billion which is almost exactly what Dr. Sherman estimated, and what Ted is close too.
You could get Evangelical American Christian to chip in. Even put pressure on Bill Gates to chip in; but no doubt Jews will have to pay.
Since it is primarily young Arabs leaving, the remaining elder Arabs will not be a problem.
In the end, you get your more Jewish Jewish country.
They do not get paid until they land in a third party country.
Yeah, it would work.
Uruguay will take immigrants who can demonstrate a $6,000 a year income.
There is no reason Uruguay could not take in 30,000 Palestinians (equiv to 1% of Uruguay’s population).
What is your problem?
Or do you now blame Uruguay for a history of anti-Semitism?!
Actually, religously, Uruguay was very liberal and friendly to Jews. Very secular, so the Jews were not coerced to Catholicism.
One of their more famous singers, Jorge Drexler, was half Jewish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22bx6OmYQe0
But you are too bigoted to know that.
BTW: Very good song.
Be careful, Pharoah wanted Jewish boys killed, and ended up with Egypt’s first born killed. It was justice for the Pharoah’s ill designs.
Likewise, you look forward to a Europe inundated with Muslims. However, in turn about, those boats can just as easily head towards the coast of Israel.
Be careful for what you wish for.
If you took half your energy – the energy you spend hating us Goyim – and worked towards getting up a plan to pay the Palestinians to leave Judea and Samaria, then you would be accomplishing something.
That is all that you needed to say.
You have shown that it is you, not me, who are the bigot.
You have show that it is you, not me, who are the disseminator of hatred.
You are not interested in a solution, but in dreams of vengeance. You are part of the problem.
And you call me, “arrogant.”
The fight between Jacob and Esau started around 2,000 B.C. Approximately 4,000 years ago, and 2,000 years before Christianity was born. We did NOT start this fight.
Before Britain got involved, before there was a UN, before there as a League of Nations, before there was U.S. involvement, back to the 19th century, and early 20th century, when the land was under Ottoman rule, even then, the local Arabs were opposed to Zionism. They published newspapers against Zionism.
They called the paper: Filastin, not South Syrians. They were against Zionism even when the Turks ruled.
The British were not involved. This was years before the San Remo Conference. The League of Nations had yet to be formed. Hitler was not yet a corporal, but selling postcards.
This did NOT start with Europe/Christianity.
Shall I mention the attack on Petah Tikvah in 1886. No European Army was involved. It was Arabs.
How dare you? You are the bigot. NOT ME!
@ CuriousAmerican:
see lots of potential in this tourist trade to expand gaza as a competitive op. We know that they want to go there, no one needs to be convinced or to give permission, they just need a little cash, a few thousand.
I wonder why they are not headed for Israel? 🙂
say thanks to those US liberal Jews who urged this on Obama. Shouldnt they be place on a no aliyah list?
HMMMMM? I wonder how the Italians are feeling about saving all those boatloads of muslims today? they just rescued a thousand a couple of days ago. IS says they epect to flood them with boats this summer.
HMMM??? How ironic is our universe? Mogherini is elected and is now EU symbol and now Italy is getting plagued. the euros want Israel to live with the honor killers but perhaps it is the euros who will be doing that living. Every day the euros stalkd the Jews pressuring them to bow to the muslims, but I think it is the euros who will be doing the bowing.
CuriousAmerican Said:
they are and have been paying, feeding, housing clothing them for decades…. let it continue and when trouble arises drive them across the borders. they can be deported to palestine(gaza) and from there they can go to europe. if the jews want to pay, it will be sabotaged, let the others keep paying.
@ Yidvocate:
my deal is better: its market proven, the gazans want to go to europe not to argentina or syria. they pay right now 10k to smugglers AND risk their life. DUHH???? obviously thats where they want to go. too many cannot afford the 10k and over 50% want to leave. No one stops them from leaving because it is their choice and Israel is not asking for it. If Israel pays them to go the arabs will sabotage it. Israel has in the past, and every intelligence service, knows how to work with criminal networks. they can facilitate, subsidize and expand existing networks in cooperation with the smugglers covertly. They can start and facilitate land networks from the west bank. I think it is practical, doable and right now is the major choice of immigration of muslims to europe…. . simply find a way for pals to reach israeli subsidized networks cheaper for pals only. Its not rocket science and a lot cheaper. Its not everything but a good beginning and in line with existing successful operations.
CuriousAmerican Said:
the arabs will pay to be rid of them once driven across the borders.
CuriousAmerican Said:
the christians are the mother of the muslim anti semitism and today they incite, fund and support muslims to kill Jews. the christians must pay, since the are not paying it appears that fate may be delivering Justice to them for their foul and despicable stalking at this very moment
here is the fate awaiting europe as they welcome new boats of those they were hoping would kill the Jews:
note that Italy is now coming into the picture, clearly a message, as Mogherini assumed the pres of EU. IS has promised to send them plagues in the boats of immigrants.
CuriousAmerican Said:
ridiculous comment, israel, as the hijackers and thieves of our bible well know, is the Jewish homeland.
CuriousAmerican Said:
rubbish you christians fund, support and incite the muslims to murder jews, helping the muslims to sabotage jews in Israel so the supersessionists can promote their lie of being the replacements.
But the impostors are not being ingathered and the land does not bloom for the hijacking impostors. This is unacceptable to those who spent 2000 years killing and libeling jews to see their biggest lie crumbling in from of them. they are hysterically seeking to sabotage the jews at any price including killing them again with their proxies until they can shamefacedly get back to the task themselves. they are working up to it though with their libels.
CuriousAmerican Said:
you started it and you continue it, like thieves in the night.
CuriousAmerican Said:
and yet millions of them remain in the arab states and more are being driven in from arab spring. the arabs do not accept them but do not ask for their permission. syria, lebanon have no benefit of a treaty with Israel… get the arabs started by dropping them across the border, get them started by increasing the boats from gaza to europe as that is where they pay 10k to go.
its best to follow the proven market that they are now paying for, its much easier to do than your scheme. have you got permission yet from any country to welcome them. it is worth paying them a little 5k help towards a trip to europe as that is where they want to go and it will plague the euros, an added benefit.
CuriousAmerican Said:
who is paying now for the arabs who are not in Israel: the UN, the arabs…. all those you say will not pay but once they are across the border they have been proven to pay… let them keep paying and pay for more while in the meantime helping boatloads to europe.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Screwing the goyim in europe is a solution. the euros are an existential enemy proven for 2000 years and today they are the greatest incitement behind the arabs. In a war one seeks every opportunity to damage their enemy… helping the gazans to europe not only rids the jews of the plague but helps to weaken and harass the enemy behind enemy lines. If the muslims in europe are harassing the euros with civil strife for decades the euros wont have as much focus to stalk the Jews. Its more than revenge, which is good in itself, it is also one solution out of many that can be implemented unilaterally with the permission of no one.
I dont know why you keep whining about how no one will pay: the arabs, euros, christians UN… but the fact is they are paying right now and have been paying for years. I see no problem in keeping the criminals and lunatics under supervision until they leave voluntarily or are driven out when the Jews wise up. Its hard to believe but even the jews might get angry one day and lose their composure and drive them all out in a fit of rage. It is only the arabs faith in the goodness of the Jews which stops them from running out in fear like they do before IS and Boko Haram.
your scheme makes little sense: it is too costly compared to alternatives, the arabs will never go along and will threaten families, etc. there is no statement of acceptance from your countries just your beliefs… why not encourage them to go to where they even pay to go right now???????? DUH?????
They want to go to europe, its easy to go to europe , they just need a little help in topping up the cash… no need to bilk Jews of billions for your jew bilking scheme. they have a place to go and they risk life and fortune already to get there, why fix a winner which stares you in the face??????
Muslims to europe…. that is the solution to everyones problems and also might end up being the euros cure for anti semitism.. the pals are happy, the jews are happy… and the euros…. who cares.
If the jews are paying then the price to needs to be cheap, you know how we are, and worth doing. Its not worth paying unless they are going to europe to plague the euros. If not paying then drive them across the border. Its best to spend that money on military resources because whether the arabs are inside or outside Israel they will still try to kill the jews with the euros help.
Many years have gone by with euros, UN and arabs paying, I dont see the need for any rush, it appears to me that you want Israel to pay to solve the arab and euro problem. Making peace or a deal is BS better to spend money resources and energy towards neutralizing and liquidating enemies as Israel will have to maintain that capacity under any situation. they will honor no deal, so dont bother to make any. continue as it is but settle Jews in YS, subsidize smugglers to get them to europe and seek every excuse to throw them or drive them out. Your scheme will solve nothing, its a pipe dream, all the enemies will continue their work wherever they are. Better to let them sit in their piles of rubble from time to time whining and living on euro welfare.
@ Yidvocate:
A good chunk? And what about the rest not to mention all the surrounding Arab countries. This would just be another excuse to have a bloodbath against Jews. There is not going to be a sustainable manmade solution. That’s my observation.
@ dove:
Sure it would. Recent surveys indicate that a good chunk of pali-posers would gladly take the money and run!
@ Yidvocate:
It would be a waste of money because it would not work.
@ dove:
You mean you wouldn’t pay a penny to help extirpate the enemy Arabs from our midst?
How about the catholics and the christians paying up since they ARE the root cause of this problem? I think it’s sick that an outsider would dare to tout and brag about a plan that the Jewish people would mainly have to implement – right after Passover – right during Holocaust Memorial Week – right after it has just been announced that anti-semitism rose 40% this past year. Quite frankly I rather take a bullet to the head than give one dime to a project like this. To each his own.
You cannot ignore per capita.
Look if you can get the Saudis to pay up, go for it.
I won’t hold my breath because you are delusional.
CA conveniently looks at per capita and I look at total numbers. It’s time for the real cheapos of the world to pay up. That is not revenge…..it’s justice.
No one said Jews own the majority of the world’s wealth – that was your own imagination. Though even you have to admit that, by virtue of their education, Jews are well above average per capita in income in the USA – according to the Jewish Forward.
THAT BEING SAID:
I have no problem getting Christians groups to chip in. Some, no doubt will, but as Martin Sherman also has noted, and as Ted Belman has noted, a lot of it, if not most of the cost, will have to be paid for by Jews.
Because of losses incurred by expulsions of the Jews from Arab lands in the 1950s, you seem to want that no Jews should pay at all for the Palestinians to be bought out. On paper that makes sense, but it is unrealistic.
I am not saying Arabs should not pay. I said they will not pay, even though they should.
You know the Arabs would view any relocation of Palestinians as a defeat. No group will willingly subsidize their own defeat.
Much of Europe is broke. They can not pay.
China has money, but I do not see China feeling any moral obligation to pay to help Israel, by subsidizing a relocation of Palestinians.
I never said the Jews owned all the world’s wealth, but they do have an above average per capita share of it. (Times of Israel article).
If the Palestinians are to be removed, they will have to be paid to go, since they obviously will not go voluntarily, and since the Arab governments will not take them.
If you can get the Saudis to pay for this … fine.
If you can get oil rich Muslims to pay for this … fine.
If you can get UNRWA to pay for this … fine.
If you can get the EU to fund Palestinian to leave instead of building them solar celled houses in Area C (but that is nowhere near what is required for relocation) …. fine.
If you can get a bankrupt Europe to pay for this … fine.
But if you are waiting for Muslims to pay for this or for an increasingly anti-Semitic Europe to pay for this, then you are more delusional than the Arabs.
Ultimately, Israel and the World Jewish Community will have to pay for a lot of this, or most of it.
I did not say this was the ideal situation. I said it was practicable.
You could probably get $20-40 Billion raised by Christian groups in America and Canada, but that is about it.
The worlds wealth is not in the hands of the Jewish People.
Region Percent of world population Percent of world net worth (PPP) Percent of world net worth (exchange rates) Percent of world GDP (PPP) Percent of world GDP (exchange rates)
North America 5.17 27.1 34.39 23.88 33.67
Central/South America 8.52 6.51 4.34 8.49 6.44
Europe 9.62 26.42 29.19 22.8 32.4
Africa 10.66 1.52 0.54 2.36 1.01
Middle East 9.88 5.07 3.13 5.69 4.1
Asia 52.18 29.4 25.61 31.07 24.1
Other 3.14 3.7 2.56 5.4 3.38
SOURCE: G. William Domhoff[20]
There are millions of nominal catholics and christians who have tremendous wealth. It just doesn’t show up in the institution numbers. The facts have been skewed.
If it is done on an individual basis, rather than being broadcast, about 20% of the population, preferably heavily titled towards the female, can be moved out, discretely, before anyone figures out that this is an organized effort across a broad spectrum, rather than mere individuals leaving.
Tell the world that Israeli is easing travel restrictions. Just don’t broadcast that it is only being eased one way.
Yes, families will miss their daughters and sons, but this can be explained by their studying abroad, etc. Set up fake scholarships, etc. and when they apply, make them the real offer. Those who do not accept, let them go back home, no problem.
The IDF tracks everyone in Judea and Samaria. Unit 8200 collects massive info. Who is sick, what color the house is, etc.
They should have an idea which girls to ask.
The countries which receive them will not broadcast the matter.
You do not tell the rest of the world.
Once a critical mass of people have been removed, panic will set in.
Since this voluntary, the world cannot complain, not if they are handsomely compensated.
As noted, it is cheaper than what Kerry wanted.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Never say never. Anyone will sell if they decided to emigrate. Why not?
On the question of who will chip in, I believe no one because all countries will not be happy that we are doing it. Israel can afford to do it alone considering that she gets to keep all the state land in J&S which is worth a lot of money. If she chooses to uproot 150,000 Israelis instead which is Kerry’s plan it will cost $1000 billion to do so. The latter creates a lot of inflation wheres the former lowers the cost of housing.
Propertied Arabs will never sell, but they are not the issue.
The problem are the landless, young unmarried, and young married couples, who will soon have kids.
These are the ones who build houses in Jerusalem, and in Areas B and C.
Those with houses already have little need to build.
Pay the landless to leave – and the remaining landed Palestinians will be a true minority.
After the landless leave, you can reduce the offer to the landed Arabs to only the value of their property and a visa.
But the young and landless will not leave without compensation.
Lower the demographic and the problem will take care of itself. To start the lowering, compensation will have to be made.
If you can get the Arabs to pay … go for it. Do not hold your breath.
I would have no problem if you tell the EU to divert funding from contested housing to relocation compensation.
I would have preferred if the $4 Billion Obama spent last year on his Kerry shuttles had been spent on relocating 40,000 Arab women @ $100,000 Each from Judea and Samaria.
But like it or not, Israel will have to pony up money.
They won’t be oppressing you, if you pay them to leave.
Actually the per capita income of Christians is less than Jews. To get funding, one goes to those who have funds to give.
I might agree with you partly, but if you are going to bring up Golden Calf stuff, I could bring up issues with some Jewish theology.
Actually, I did if you would have bothered to read.
I could make a good reply, but Ted would get mad. Interesing how you insult Christianity, then call me arrogant.
@ bernard ross:
I had to re-visit this. Your comment is the one which is insulting towards Christians.
While I support Israel, and feel Israel has a right to the land, the contest for the land did NOT start with Christians, but with the Jews returning to the land.
Jews return to the land, and you blame Christians??????!!!!
Are you out of your mind?
Benard Ross: The Arab Muslims won’t let us return … Quick, blame the Christians
You definitely have a right to the land,but do not say we Christians started this problem.
Had you chosen Argentina, you would not be having problems with the Palestnian Muslims. Maybe with Catholic Argentines, though I doubt it. In fact, Argentina welcomed Jews as civilizing.
I know why you had to choose Palestine, but do NOT blame us Christians for Muslim antipathy.
ze’ev Jabotinsky noted that Arab was going to resist, as all natives do.
So the problem with the Arab Muslims did NOT start with Christians.
The Muslims blame us Christians for supporting Israel.
This was one of the reasons Osama attacked the World Trade center.
Now, Osama bin Laden was a pig. However, one of the reasons he attacked the USA was for supporting Israel.
How dare you say that “We started this?”
You blame us, and the Muslims blame us.
Well WE CHRISTIANS DID NOT START THIS.
It started with Jacob and Esau, 2000 years before Christianity even was born.
And you accuse me of arrogance?
WE CHRISTIANS DID NOT START THIS PROBLEM IN THE MIDEAST.
@ bernard ross:
Very good reply to CA. He is an insult. He has a real hang up with Jews having money and always wants to find a way to put it in the hands of our oppressors. How about some of those new Christian churches? They reek of money. Not to mention all the golden calf stuff in the Catholic churches. Many wealthy Catholics and Christians. He doesn’t say anything about that! A lot of their wealth is from taking it off the backs of simple people. Shame!
@ bernard ross:
Some would donate. I have no doubt. It would not be enough.
If you can get UNRWA funds directed to this purpose, I have no problem.
But the key is discrete individual action. UNRWA is not discrete.
The Arabs will not pay. If you expect them to pay, you are as delusional as the Arabs are.
It is also obvious that Arabs will not contribute.
The principle in law is: Cui Bono? (Who Benefits?)
Since Jews would be the beneficiary of an emptied Palestine, it seemed natural that they should pay something.
If you can get Saudi Arabia to chip in, then you are a better man that me.
I am not going to be holding my breath.
Are you interested in what is possible or revenge?
I would not handle the money. I would build the website, but I would be smart enough to make sure a Zionist Jew was in charge of the money.
I am not a great announcer.
Not all came in as Christian. If you research, as I did, many came in as Muslims and married into Christianity.
There is the well know case of Victoria Spinelli (well known Catholic TV star) who did not find out until she was 15, that her great-grandfather was Muslim.
If you put them all in the same neighborhood, yes! You have to spread them out.
Charities in South America are run by Catholic or Evangelical Churches. At every step along the way, they will hear of Christ.
When they turn on the radio, they will not hear blood curdling calls to kill Jews, but will instead hear tango, Cumbia, or Samba.
Ironically, the Pal Christians in Chile support their Muslim “brothers” in the intifada. I have no idea why. They tend to identify with their anti-Zionism.
How did we start the contest in the Mideast? It was the Jews who returned, and asked for European support.
We did not start this. I am not saying Israel is wrong, but the contest started with the Jewish return, NOT with Europe or America.
I have no probleShanm with re-directing Christian funds, but Million Dollar Bar Mitzvahs are a Shanda fur die Goyim.
Where to send them is the problem since Arab states will not accept them.
The idea is to settle the problem amicably and legally. Palestinians caught can be returned to Gaza. The idea is to get them out of Judea and Samaria. Gaza is a lost cause.
You are not interested in solving the problem, you want to scr*w the Goyim in Europe.
You fly them out the evening they agree. They sign the paper and fly out in three hours before anyone can get to them
If you bring the price down, they won’t go. The idea is NOT ONLY TO GET THEM TO LEAVE BUT TO GET OTHER NATIONS TO TAKE THEM, WHICH CAN ONLY BE ACHIEVED IF THEY COME WITH MONEY.
You are the one advocating criminal activity, not me.
@ CuriousAmerican:
There is no reason why every christian org in the world cant be made a party to this scheme, and all the UN and arab money that never paid the jews to leave and instead pays the arabs to stay, should be redirected to this effort. Strange that you never thought of that obvious source which is already wasting the money feeding and sheltering, arming them, and instead you want the Jews, expelled an uncompensated from arab lands, to pay. Why don’t you direct your efforts at them rather than at the Jews, that would be the obvious place to go? It is odd that you seek out the Jews to pay them to leave.
I wonder why???????
@ Yidvocate:
just make it out to C.A.S.H., thats the acronym for C.A.’s charitable institution
I am willing to set up Website, a Twitter, and FB site, and interconnect them for an NGO set up run such a project to pay the Palestinians to leave.
I would assist in setting up such a project. However, I would let a Jew run the paypal and cash, lest I be accused of pilfering the money.
I am good with webdesign.
The only think I request is that the NGO be American, so I do not run into problems with American law.
It does not matter me to what pays for the Palestinians to leave
but we can make some assumptions, and come to the same conclusion as does Dr. Martin Sherman
1) The Arabs will not pay – even if they should
2) Christians will pay, but not enough
3) Most of the money will have to come from Jewish sources
Call the Charity VayaOeste. Go West.
CuriousAmerican Said:
I watched and here is my opinion:
1- get a new primary announcer, the accent and dialect is very low brow, get a professional. Also, the breathing is audible: sighs, etc. Is it your voice?
2- Most of your arabs are christians and the muslims few. I think the christian arabs assimilate because there are cultural similarities. They also ddi in jamaica and in fact Jamaican arabs and Jamaican Jews of a few generations got along in every way and I never heard of any conflicts over the pal thing.
3- I think that a large amount of muslim arabs would start to be a problem as muslims tend to assimilate less. I have not heard of christian arabs being a problem anywhere but not so with muslim arabs.
4- I wonder how those pal christians in chile feel now about their muslim brothers who chop off their christian heads? Seems like a rude reply after getting all that christian support.
5- You saved your transparently insulting and lowbrow comments regarding jews, money, expensive bar mitzvahs rather than paying arabs, and the implied notion that Jews should pay. Actually its the christians who should first pay for starting the problem and maintaining, the euros should pay for the same reason, the arabs should pay,…. the arabs never paid the jews so it is insulting to ask them.
6- instead of talking about expensive bar mitzvahs you should be talking about the hundreds of millions the world spends to maintain the arabs right now and to simply redirect that money to their resettlement.
7- If resettling them was the problem it would already have been done: the arabs want the current situation to remain as part of their war on the Jews and the euros collude in that war. where to send them is not the problem.
8- As i said before your economics is poor. you ignore both the market in terms of demand and competitive pricing. the gazans themselves, over 50% want to go to europe and pay 10k risking their lives in that effort…. therefore there is a market exhibiting a clear demand and a willingness to pay and risk life; so why try to send them elsewhere? Better to subsidize existing criminal networks clandestinely and bring the price down so that more can pay to leave. In partnership with criminal networks they can be helped to create more networks at lower prices by land also from the west bank. This will also have the advantage that no one tries to prevent the pals from leaving on their own but if they were being paid to leave their lives would be threatened. If you bring the price down to 5k you will have spent only 5k per person for that subsidy which is much cheaper and fulfills the proven market demand. I suggest you enroll in eco 101 forthwith before you get arrested for starting a ponzi scheme and lose all the investors money.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Where do I send my cheque?
No one denies the Arab expulsions of Jews, but while related, the Arabs in Palestine were NOT responsible for the expulsions of Jews in Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Morocco, et al.
These are technically two independent issues, and should be treated as such.
It depends on your priorities. Is Judea and Samaria your priority, or getting back to a synagogue in Tunis?
Do you want clear uncontested title to Judea and Samaria or title to a Shul in Casablanca?
Do you want a solution or revenge?
I know many here would like to have both, but you can’t get them simultaneously.
Free up Judea and Samaria first.
I made this video THREE YEARS AGO (45 Minutes) where I go step by step through the numbers, and the costs.
I explain the demographics, and the percentages.
I admit the video is not the best quality. I used Windows Movie Maker.
But the figures are laid out and Cruched for you.
A DIFFERENT SOLUTION
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQVpgpve2IQ
If you would suspend your antipathy to me, and just watch the movie – I know it is slow at times, it is all laid out with figures, graphs, etc.
THIS IS DOABLE.
There is no reason that every Jewish NGO in America can be made party to this idea. And Christian Zionist groups could be persuaded to chip in.
Sponser an Arab out.
Everyone knows that no Palestinian group would approve such a deal, but individuals would.
So the key is to bypass Palestinian groups and go to individuals.
What I suggested is that individuals be offered a money, a visa, and a flight out on the same day.
A young teenage female college student could be offered a visa, a flight out, with the money tendered ONLY ON ARRIVAL in some third country.
I called it “working with individuals.”
Dr sherman, who came to the idea independent of me, calls it “atomization.”
What countries?!
Unfortunately, the Arab countries have signed the Casablanca Protocols whereby none will naturalize Palestinians. NOT Good!
It will have to be to a non-Arab country. I seriously doubt Malaysia, Indonesia, or Pakistan would take them in, for the same reason.
However, South America does have a history of absorbing and assimilating Arabs, even Muslim ones. Pedro Brieger has show that in spit of official numbers claiming 400,000 Muslims in Argentina, in the year 2003, there were only 3 halal butchers in Buenos Aires, which has a metro area of 12 Million people. Rather than 400,000 Muslims in 2003, Breiger estimated that only 4,000 were practicing.
What this means is: What Muslims live in Argentina even assimilate into Christianity or become non-observant.
If one were to read MUSLIMS IN ARGENTINA, by Pedro Breiger, an Argentine-Jewish academic, it would become obvious.
There are 500,000 Palestinian Christians in Chile already.
Brazil has 15 Million Arabs, half of whom are Maronite Christian Lebanese.
The imams in Brazil claim 1 million Muslims. However, the Brazilian census shows on 35,000.
Basically, the imams lie and exaggerate.
On top of this, Brazil and Chile are having large Pentecostal (read Pro-Zionist) Christian revivals where millions are converting from Catholicism to a more Zionist Evangelical view. The rising wave has already picked up a lot of Arabs.
$100,000 could get one a nice beach house in Chile, and set oneself up.
It would be attractive to a young Arab couple or to a single female, who wants to leave Sharia regulation.
If you want to set up NGOs, by all means do so.
In New York, they now have million dollar Bar Mitzvahs . Tell the family to save the money, and instead buy out an Arab family, which would be a better service to Israel.
I have research this for years, and I have the numbers. It is doable.
One can debate the amount; but if you low ball it, no one will take up the offer.
One can concentrate on getting the women out first, as they are the ones who have babies. Getting rid of the men will only leave more women for polygamous marriages, and the babies will not cease.
One can offer a sliding arrangement. The first to go get more, and as the panic sets in, a sliding scale is introduced.
Concentrater on young women and/or young recently married couples.
I have no problem if you can get Saudi Arabia to finance this, but frankly, one would have to be delusion to expect that the Arabs would finance their own defeat in this issue. Still, you are free to try. Don’t hold your breath.
You can try to see if Arab countries would accept them. Again, do not hold your breath.
The only part of the world which has taken in lots of Arabs, assimlated them, and crunched out Christians is South America.
And yes, they converted in South America. Most of the Arabs who went to South America were Christian (80%) but (20%) were Muslim. Most of there descendants are Christian.
This Muslim woman married a christian, and already one daughter has decided for Christianity.
No other culture Christianizes Arabs, but South America does.
This is doable.
It is practicable.
I have crunched the numbers independent of Dr. Martin Sherman, and amazingly we come very close to the same figures.
The only caveats:
1) They have to be dispersed around South America. If allowed to concentrate, they will not assimilate.
2) Preference should be given to women, who tend to be more peaceable.
3) Prefence should be given to young females, and recently married couples, to get them out before they have kids.
4) Give them the money only when they land
South America will take them in ONLY IF THEY COME WITH ENOUGH CASH THAT THEY WILL NOT BURDEN SOUTH AMERICA.
Arabs tend to be upper-class in South America, and not looked down upon.
======================================================
For those who see revenge (naqam) by smuggling them into Europe, this will not solve your problem.
Are you interested in revenge or a solution?
You can sue Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Jordan, Syria for confiscated properties later on. Set Shurat HaDin on them.
But that is another issue. They should not be conflated.
You all think I am arrogant on this, but I have spent over three years researching this, crunching numbers, emailing Arab-Argentines (even though my Spanish is atrocious), to hunt down facts.
THIS IS A DOABLE SOLUTION.
Only South America will take them in. Only South America will assimilate them.
So this video is your answer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDwQN4UeF8E
Most of Palestinian Arabs don’t have sentimental connection to the Land like Jews have and “Palestinians” are invented people, and invented with only one goal to destroy the State of Israel and would never call
themselves “Palestinians” otherwise. They start to call themselves “Palestinians” not earlier than late 1960s. They try, by adapting this name, to prove they are indigenous people for this Land. They are not. Most of “Palestinians” migrated here from multiple Arab countries in the end of 19th century and later, when Jews started to rebuild their Land. Therefore, their claim about native people is false. Everybody has rights to call themselves whatever they want but not to use this as a goal and means to terrorize and destroy others. They have the rights to live on this Land only as a peaceful and loyal citizen. Everybody who denies Jewish rights on this Land automatically lost the rights to live here.
Arabs expelled more than 800,000 Jews from Arab countries without any compensations, who lived there long before Arabs captured these lands from really indigenous people, and brutally destroyed their religions and cultures. All Jewish properties in Arab Countries were confiscated. If to give these properties to “Palestinian” refugees (hundreds billions of dollars) and their problems will be solved. This should be taken in consideration too. Arab countries should also help to solve the problem that was created by themselves.
Martin Sherman suggestion is the only practical way to achieve peace. The “Palestinians” can live on the Jewish Land only as a peaceful loyal citizens. Otherwise they must leave peacefully (with financial compensation) or by force. They have a choice.
Ted, I know! His concept needs to be refined to make it a possibly practical plan and not just a political science discussion.
I have told him some of my ideas.
I was thinking perhaps an NGO could be formed to start an actual plan and experiment with it in certain location(s). Sherman thinks the government needs to implement the concept.
He has a good point. I think the government needs to endorse an NGO to it implement this on a test basis and evaluate it.
The key is getting the land and property plus the voluntary relocation.
@ Bear Klein:
Sherman proposes that they get the money only after they emigrate. Buying property from them is a separate issue.
Sherman is a real idea man! His idea of voluntary relocation needs to be tried to a specific location (e.g. some Palestinian villages in Area C or Arab parts of East Jerusaelm). Palestinians need to sell land and or property to be compensated.
The properties should then be sold to Jews. The monies should then be recycled to buy more properties.
This done first in one, two or three locations.
This will take this concept from a political science project to an actual plan. This right now is global and conceptual.
Yes that is where one starts with new ideas but to actually have a chance ever it must become a focused idea and tested.
With testing one can fix problems that arise. This is how a large business would act if it was rolling out new franchises. A test location or a couple test locations.
Also to have meaningful affect (relocating voluntarily a significant amount of Arabs) this needs to be focused to have a positive affect. This will encourage more Arabs in a local to take the money because their neighbors have taken it and Jews are moving in. Otherwise the money will just pissed away without meaningful affect.