RELIGION

By Ted Belman

I have said many times that Israpundit is not the place to have Christian/Jewish disputations. They only serve to divide us.

Israpundit has one objective and that is to unite us in the defense of liberty and in the defense of Israel.

So please adhere to this guideline.

May 24, 2011 | 88 Comments »
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50 Comments / 88 Comments

  1. A clever dodge couched as an assault.

    “Considering John 8 is from a speech Yeshua was giving to actual people, I doubt he was referring to ALL Jews everywhere, incl. himself. I think it’s pretty clear he’s referring to the people he’s talking TO.

    “On another note, I’ve noticed you seem to criticize some Jews, are you saying Yeshua didn’t have that right as well?”

    “I wish I had a buck… “

    You still haven’t answered Dawg’s question. [May 25, 10:44 pm]

    “I’m sure some were my ancestors.”

    Quite possibly.

    Or not.

    (Possibly mine too.)

    Also irrelevant.

    Doesn’t make Dawg’s question any less reasonable.

    Anything good, Yamit,

    can be subsequently used for evil.

    That’s not a judgment on the thing itself.

    It’s a judgment on the user of the thing.

    “On another note, I’ve noticed you seem to criticize some Jews, are you saying Yeshua didn’t have that right as well?”<

    Your answer to Dawg's question, please…?

  2. dweller says:
    May 26, 2011 at 9:36 am

    “On another note, I’ve noticed you seem to criticize some Jews, are you saying Yeshua didn’t have that right as well?”

    Score two for Dawg.

    (Going for the Trifecta?)

    You Are of Your Father the Devil

    39 They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, 40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. 41 You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”
    Before Abraham Was, I Am

    48 The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?” 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.” 52 The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’ 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ [3] 55 But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” [4] 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

    Really? I wish I had a buck for every Jew you Christians murdered because of these verses. I’m sure sure some were my ancestors.

    Your j guy was either a liar a lunatic or both, there can’t be a rational 3rd choice. If he really existed.

  3. “It seems no one wants to have discussions with Christians Ted.”

    Whoa — not so fast, Wahrheit.

    I’ll take on “Christians,”

    or anybody else,

    at the drop of a hat.

    Bring it.

  4. Bruce O says:
    May 26, 2011 at 4:16 am

    But, Yamit, if we are drilling and refining our own oil and natural gas, just the jobs created would be in the hundreds of thousands. If we’re not spending our money on ME oil, the money would stay here in our economy, right? You would have all of the auxiliary businesses that would be springing up to service the oil fields…

    You say the Chinese are drilling on American soil?

    Chinese increase oil search in US

  5. Bruce O says:
    May 26, 2011 at 4:16 am

    But, Yamit, if we are drilling and refining our own oil and natural gas, just the jobs created would be in the hundreds of thousands. If we’re not spending our money on ME oil, the money would stay here in our economy, right? You would have all of the auxiliary businesses that would be springing up to service the oil fields…

    You say the Chinese are drilling on American soil?

    Chesapeake said it expects its CNOOC deal to close in the first quarter of this year. The company plans to increase the number of drilling rigs in the basins from five to ten by the end of the year, and to 20 by the end of 2012. In October, CNOOC paid 1.08bn US dollars (£681m) for a one-third stake in a Chesapeake drilling project in South Texas.
    are also drilling off Cuba closer to Florida than Cuba.

    Isn’t it curious that none of the MSM including Fox News is silent on what’s going on? Money talks shit walks and all of the Congress are either stupid or bought and paid for maybe both. Germany has purchased most of America publishers and Large tracts of real estate especially mega agricultural properties. once Japan begins to rebuild in earnest they will probably sell off their debt holding of American treasuries. America can’t pay without increase in interest rates at least 6 % that should seal the fate of Americas economy. Japan owns some 800 billion of American debt.

    In America telling the truth is Political suicide for any politician. 50% of Americans are on the take for some form of entitlements. Student loans are almost a Trillion and most students today have no prospects of either jobs or jobs that pay a reasonable wage. Nobody should take receipt of pensions and SS as a given in the future. Housing may never recover and they are the largest economic sector. Banks would collapse if not for the FED keeping them afloat.

    And you think Palin can remedy all of these problems and more? I don’t know if anyone could but the least likely is Palin.

    CNOOC pays US$570 million for 33% stake in US oil venture

  6. Bruce O says:
    May 26, 2011 at 3:42 am

    If America harvested our energy rich natural resources, we could turn the economy around strongly in a decade. Sarah Palin knows all about oil 🙂

    Energy is a minor problem compared to the fiscal coming collapse of the world financial systems. once you grasp the enormity and the reasons you will realize that nobody in the political establishment has a clue and if they do have no remedy and if they did it would be political suicide. Obama has put the conservatives and Republican in a trap and might pull it off in 2012.

    Here is some clues but it’s only the tip of the iceberg. Read what I give you, it should blow your mind and maybe change your opinions re: palin and all the other political pygmies on offer.

    Our Debt Is More Than All the Money in the World

    The Wall Street Pentagon Papers: Biggest Scam In World History Exposed – Are The Federal Reserve’s Crimes Too Big To Comprehend?

    Reject, Reject, Reject, Reject – Republican Wet Noodles – Misguided
    Defined

    America needs to create 350,000 new jobs per month just to stay even. Real unemployment is closer to 20% than 10% add another 10% by middle of next year.

  7. “Considering John 8 is from a speech Yeshua was giving to actual people, I doubt he was referring to ALL Jews everywhere, incl. himself. I think it’s pretty clear he’s referring to the people he’s talking TO.”

    Score one for Dawg.

    “On another note, I’ve noticed you seem to criticize some Jews, are you saying Yeshua didn’t have that right as well?”

    Score two for Dawg.

    (Going for the Trifecta?)

  9. Wahrheit Unbedingt says:

    Yep, But not the voodoo part.

    Threw that CRAP in for the fun of it. 😉

  11. But, Yamit, if we are drilling and refining our own oil and natural gas, just the jobs created would be in the hundreds of thousands. If we’re not spending our money on ME oil, the money would stay here in our economy, right? You would have all of the auxiliary businesses that would be springing up to service the oil fields…

    You say the Chinese are drilling on American soil?

  12. Bruce O says:
    May 26, 2011 at 3:42 am

    If America harvested our energy rich natural resources, we could turn the economy around strongly in a decade. Sarah Palin knows all about oil

    Not so, Most of Americas energy imports come from Canada and Mexico, oil is governed by market forces and won’t reduce for America the prices of oil. The big difference is in dollar outflow to some of the ME suppliers but how would that reduce the cost of energy. Bal of payments yes but not necessarily the cost to the American consumer. India, China and SE Asia will eat up any oil America reduces from foreign suppliers. The Chinese are even drilling in SW America, Texas and oaklahoma. There is no shortage of oil in the marketplace although we may have reached Peak Oil and that could change everyone calculations soon.

    A game changer could be the recently proved concept of cold fusion. Google it and try cold fusion on you-tube, looks promising if the oil companies don’t bury it.

  14. If America harvested our energy rich natural resources, we could turn the economy around strongly in a decade. Sarah Palin knows all about oil 🙂

  15. Kufar Dawg says: The Russians and Chinese aren’t a bunch of raving psychopaths whose most holy and venerated man was nothing more than a psychopathic pedophile, warlord, slaver and antisemite.

    Good point but America a declining world power and broke, will be in a very weakened position to challenge The Chinese and the Russian combo in the not to distant future. The object is control of the world’s most vital natural resources. They are winning without firing a shot so far but things could change with miscalculations and unintended consequences.

  17. Wahrheit Unbedingt says:
    May 25, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    @ Yamit I used to log on with the name gods justice and you said you looked at my link on my name. Which has links to my other sites where i am free to talk about my faith. Maybe that is why you don’t recognize who i am. By the way that’s a horrible rendition of a demon. Kind of fitting though, as i look at you as devils advocate.

    Now I place you!!! Mr. Lakes of Fire and Voodoo.

  19. The Russians and Chinese aren’t going to attack us, the Left is slowly but surely defeating us internally. All the Russians and Chinese have to do is wait for us to join them at the big Commie table.

    Obama already handed over some of Britains nuclear secrets to the Russians. Hell, we’re their allies now.

  20. There are 1.5 billion Chinese with thousand of ICBM’s targeting north America. There are 150 million Russians with thousands of ICBN’s targeting America. The Chinese and the Russians do not love you, America! Pakistan has by now hundreds of nukes with delivery systems; Iran soon to follow.
    Venezuela has given Iran ICBM platforms for their Nukes soon to be operational.

    Viewed from this perspective which of us in in greater peril?

    The Russians and Chinese aren’t a bunch of raving psychopaths whose most holy and venerated man was nothing more than a psychopathic pedophile, warlord, slaver and antisemite.

  21. Perhaps it’s because we Jews have ancient experience with such raving lunatics:

    “42 Jesus answered: If God were your father, you would love me, since I have my origin in God and have come from him; I did not come of my own accord, but he sent me.

    43 Why do you not understand what I say? Because you cannot bear to listen to my words.

    44 You are from your father, the devil, and you prefer to do what your father wants. He was a murderer from the start; he was never grounded in the truth; there is no truth in him at all. When he lies he is speaking true to his nature, because he is a liar, and the father of lies.”
    – John 8

    Regards from the “Synagogue of Satan” (Revelation 2:9 and 3:9)

    Considering John 8 is from a speech Yeshua was giving to actual people, I doubt he was referring to ALL Jews everywhere, incl.
    himself. I think it’s pretty clear he’s referring to the people he’s talking TO.

    On another note, I’ve noticed you seem to criticize some Jews, are you saying Yeshua didn’t have that right as well?

  22. How about “We love Christians” without their religious beliefs being propounded on this site. I doubt any of us bring up the topic except in response to zealous Christians who may love Israel as opposed to Jews, and support an idealized concept of Israel based on Christian theology and eschatology. Stick with politics and general support and you will have no problem from me or anyone else. Note this: I will to the best of my inadequate abilities defend Judaism and Jews from predatory pro Israel Christians with an agenda that goes beyond the scope of simply being pro Israel.

    Not to worry, Yamit. I’m not one of those. I was born Christian, but I don’t practice, and I sure don’t preach. Heck, I don’t even know what eschatology means !! I look at the politics of the ME, I see who the beheaders hate, and I am on the side of Israel because we have a common enemy. I clearly see Israel as the bulwark on the front lines of the war against the barbarians.

    Frankly, I love the concept of Judaism, I pray to the One G-d, the Creator Of All, to the consternation of my fellow Christians. But I find the Jewish people to be bullheaded, predominately Leftist, and suicidal in their attempts to do whatever they can to gain the approval of the worlds anti-semites.

    Since we’re speaking plainly, If I were “King of Israel”, the first thing that I would do would be to cleanse Jerusalem of any and all Arabs who showed that they were internal enemies. I would take back Gaza and the Sinai.

    I would then ask the world if they hated me any more than they did before.

    But, that’s just me, I’m a former firefighter and see everything as a battle that either gets won or lost. Unfortunately, as in fires, for Israel, the ones you lose kill you.

    I’m a Carolyn Glick reading kind of guy.

  23. @ Yamit I used to log on with the name gods justice and you said you looked at my link on my name. Which has links to my other sites where i am free to talk about my faith. Maybe that is why you don’t recognize who i am. By the way that’s a horrible rendition of a demon. Kind of fitting though, as i look at you as devils advocate.

  24. Bruce O says:
    May 25, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    Perhaps, if one is surrounded by enemies, it would not be a bad idea to welcome the Christians who are willing to stand with you, and continue to dislike the ones that don’t…nah…that would make too much sense. Whatever happened to that Righteous Gentile “thing” you guys used to have? It might not be a bad idea to reconsider bringing that back…nah…better to stand alone against the entire world than admit there may be one or two good Christians around…

    Pardon me, I was just thinking out loud, that’s always so awkward.

    How about “We love Christians” without their religious beliefs being propounded on this site. I doubt any of us bring up the topic except in response to zealous Christians who may love Israel as opposed to Jews, and support an idealized concept of Israel based on Christian theology and eschatology. Stick with politics and general support and you will have no problem from me or anyone else. Note this: I will to the best of my inadequate abilities defend Judaism and Jews from predatory pro Israel Christians with an agenda that goes beyond the scope of simply being pro Israel.

    I was just thinking out loud as well 😉

  25. Wahrheit Unbedingt says:
    May 25, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    It seems no one wants to have discussions with Christians Ted. So what are we to do? Do we just agree with everyone else and stifle our thoughts on Christ? The only time i usually bring up the subject is when Yamit gives me crap about it. But it’s all well and good i like your site, sometimes it is even informative.

    The only time i usually bring up the subject is when Yamit gives me crap about it

    Have we met? Give Me some ref: so I know what the hell you are talking about. 8)

  26. Perhaps, if one is surrounded by enemies, it would not be a bad idea to welcome the Christians who are willing to stand with you, and continue to dislike the ones that don’t…nah…that would make too much sense. Whatever happened to that Righteous Gentile “thing” you guys used to have? It might not be a bad idea to reconsider bringing that back…nah…better to stand alone against the entire world than admit there may be one or two good Christians around…

    Pardon me, I was just thinking out loud, that’s always so awkward.

  27. It seems no one wants to have discussions with Christians Ted. So what are we to do? Do we just agree with everyone else and stifle our thoughts on Christ? The only time i usually bring up the subject is when Yamit gives me crap about it. But it’s all well and good i like your site, sometimes it is even informative.

  28. Andrew says:
    May 25, 2011 at 6:09 am

    Nice post Calvary.

    I sense you are referring to an old flame Yamit. Did you like the shicksas in your younger days?

    Did you like the shicksas in your younger days?

    If you are talking to Calvary? He is not Jewish so I would say probably unless he’s gay.

    If you refer to me? You betcha.

  29. Bruce O’H. says:
    May 25, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Haaaaaa!!! Yamit, tell us how you really feel 🙂

    Not sure about that. 8)

  30. yamit82 says:
    May 25, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Quite right: sense.com Not fair of shy to quote divisive scriptures. Why don’t you publicly reject or expunge them, in the name of unity of-course ?

    I covet your creative response.

  32. Bruce O’H. says:
    May 25, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    Yes, OUR graves. You should know, I’m not one of those cheek turning Christians. Never have been.

    Turning the other cheek was never practiced among any Christians. Must be an Urban Myth.

  33. Dr. Sanford Aranoff says:
    May 25, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    I agree about discussion concerning Christianity. However, we must have discussions concerning Islam.

    What’s the difference? Glad to see you have no moral compass.

  34. sense.com says:
    May 24, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    Shy Guy being a wise guy and trying to keep up the division by quoting very divisive scriptures.

    Quite right: sense.com Not fair of shy to quote divisive scriptures. Why don’t you publicly reject or expunge them, in the name of unity of-course ?

  36. Yes, OUR graves. You should know, I’m not one of those cheek turning Christians. Never have been.

  38. Now you’re talkin’ !! Let’s discuss the barbarian beheaders, our mutual enemy, and the big stack of dead bodies that proves all they REALLY want is world peace 🙂

  39. I agree about discussion concerning Christianity. However, we must have discussions concerning Islam.

  41. “O’Hara is for me a welcome name. Relates to a part my youth with fond memories.”

    An’ tomorrah eeyizz

    annothah day!

  42. Nice post Calvary.

    I sense you are referring to an old flame Yamit. Did you like the shicksas in your younger days?

  43. I agree with Calvary. Seems he has not been put off by us and even comes back for more. LOL

    Sense.com: Still supports Israel, so this time I will let his Christian Gibberish slide. In the name of unity. Next time I won’t.

    O’Hara is for me a welcome name. Relates to a part my youth with fond memories.

  44. Well, I understand your motivation. And it’s your site. Who can argue? But banning discussion of religion from a site about Israel is like banning stripes from zebras. Israel’s raison d’etre is religion. (Or as sense.com rightly points out, God.)

    All in all, I’ve learned more about Jews and Israel from the religious discussions than any others. And, I think we’ve worked through some ‘Christians are all devils’ sentiments too. Sure, the discussions get pretty nasty sometimes. But, I figure real relationships only develop through conflict.

  45. We are in a period of spiritual battle. I suppose it’s always been so. Each man has to choose between good and evil. It’s easy for me to see, but I am a simple man.

    My last name is O’Hara.

    I stand with Israel.

  46. Shy Guy being a wise guy and trying to keep up the division by quoting very divisive scriptures.

    Yes, we must stand together and we must stand up for truth, and we must stand up for ourselves against the enemy who wants to either destroy us or turn is into their slaves. But we must lean upon the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob because everything is such a mess that ultimately only God can fix it, and whether you believe that Jesus is the Messiah, or whether you are waiting for another Messiah, ultimately only God can fix this mess.

    The devil laughs at how men hate men because of religion. And this is what this whole mess is all about – religion. What an irony to say that we need to lean on the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob because ultimately only He can fix it.

    But God is not religion. Neither is the devil. But one of them is the author of religion.

    The devil is laughing, so go on causing division shy wise guy.

  47. Kufar Dawg says:
    May 24, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    Sometimes I wonder if Yeshua, Yohann and the rest of the apostles might not have agreed with you.

    Perhaps it’s because we Jews have ancient experience with such raving lunatics:

    “42 Jesus answered: If God were your father, you would love me, since I have my origin in God and have come from him; I did not come of my own accord, but he sent me.

    43 Why do you not understand what I say? Because you cannot bear to listen to my words.

    44 You are from your father, the devil, and you prefer to do what your father wants. He was a murderer from the start; he was never grounded in the truth; there is no truth in him at all. When he lies he is speaking true to his nature, because he is a liar, and the father of lies.”
    – John 8

    Regards from the “Synagogue of Satan” (Revelation 2:9 and 3:9)

  48. It is a matter of respect. No Christian likes it when a mormon, JW or moonie shows up on their doorstep and then starts shoving their wares down their throats. Likewise we should respect that this is a Jewish site and behave accordingly. Shalom.

    Sometimes I wonder if Yeshua, Yohann and the rest of the apostles might not have agreed with you.

  49. It is a matter of respect. No Christian likes it when a mormon, JW or moonie shows up on their doorstep and then starts shoving their wares down their throats. Likewise we should respect that this is a Jewish site and behave accordingly. Shalom.

  50. Ted you are correct and there are no winners in religious disputes and as you state they only serve to divide us. Division we don’t need.

    Truly we need to be united in the defense of liberty and in the defense of Israel especially now with turmoil in the Arab Muslim world surrounding Israel.

    Regardless of our particular faith we all believe in one G-d/God and we need to be united and call on Him to protect and secure all the Holy Land He provided for the Jewish people and protect them from their neighbors.