T. Belman. This is the report that Debka referred to in the article just below this one. First of all Bibi is pushing it together with al Sisi. It satisfies the Arab League and their API demanding 100% withdrawal. I can’t see Hamas going along, or the Arab Israelis who end up in Palestine. Israel can’t cancel their citizenship and they could always move back into Israel. How can Israel provide services to the settlements deep in Palestine. Will the IDF be permitted to remain in the Jordan Valley. Jerusalem could remain undivided with Arab residents under Palestinian sovereignty and Jewish residents under Israeli sovereignty.
Was Lieberman made Defence Minister with this trade in mind.
By JNI Media June 5, 2016 , 7:30 am
A Russian state news agency TASS story in the wake of the Friday Paris conference for peace quoted Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Mikhail Bogdanov who advocated concrete territorial exchanges between Israel and the Arabs in Judea and Samaria, in order to preserve Israeli settlements. “The border should be established between Israelis and Palestinians,” Bogdanov said, adding, “This border may envisage territorial exchanges, appropriate and adequate, taking into account that such an approach allows to resolve the problem of Israeli settlements on the West Bank.”
The Deputy Foreign Minister stressed that Israeli settlements “may remain in some regions with the understanding that in exchange for territories with Israeli settlements, Palestinians will get an appropriate compensation in the form of parts of the territory. This is a so-called territorial exchange.”
It should be noted in this context that Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman in the past advocated handing over to the Palestinian State the Israeli cities of the Arab Triangle, such as Um El Fahm and Tira — a suggestion that caused an uproar and accusations of racism.
Following the Paris international conference on a peace deal between Israel and the Arabs, in which 29 nations as well as the UN and EU participated, but Israel did not, Bogdanov, the Russian president’s Special Representative for the Middle East and Africa, told TASS that the conference had been “useful. We still need to analyze the content of the Paris discussion; study the final document and then see what can be done, by using common approaches, to promote a sustainable negotiating process between the Palestinians and the Israelis,” Bogdanov said. He recommended that both sides assess the conference’s results, and promised that “We are going to have contacts at a very high level with both sides.”
Signaling the Russians’ intense interest in remaining involved in the process, TASS on Friday ran five different stories involving Mikhail Bogdanov and the peace agreement. According to the diplomat, Moscow is prepared to host negotiations between Palestinian and Israeli representatives. “Of course, we will be prepared to do this, if there is the wish and readiness of the two parties — Israelis and Palestinians — to have a meeting… if they wish to meet in Moscow, we are prepared to host them.”
In another story, Bogdanov lamented the fact that the split among the Palestinians hampers progress in the Middle Eastern settlement. “This problem should be resolved as a priority task so that Palestinians present a single and united delegation at the talks on the final status,” Bogdanov advised.
He also promised that “Russia fully supports efforts to restore inter-Palestinian unity on the basis of the PLO and Arab Peace Initiative.” He suggested a “dialogue with representatives of the whole range of Palestinian forces, first of all Fatah and Hamas, in the interest of achieving appropriate agreements.”
It was not easy to asses whether the high-ranking diplomat was being naïve or cynical, but it appears that he is promoting peace between Hamas and the Jews it has sworn to annihilate. In fact, Bogdanov is serious about preventing the next clash between Israel and Hamas:
“The exchange of strikes between Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza in early May of this year that became the biggest since the ceasefire agreement was reached in August 2014 is another confirmation of a well-known point, which is that the recurrence of confrontation is not ruled out without solving the enclave’s problems, lifting the blockade imposed on it and restoring its infrastructure destroyed by Israel, including in the summer of the year before last,” Bogdanov said.
He did not mention that those clashes in May erupted when IDF bulldozers were crossing a few yards into Gazan territory to demolish Hamas terror tunnels that lead into Israel. Hamas was unhappy to see its work being destroyed, and so their snipers shot at IDF soldiers to shoo them away.
“Russia certainly condemns all manifestations of violence, whatever the reasons for them,” the diplomat noted, obviously disregarding the violence and mayhem his country has been inflicting on Ukraine, while occupying the Ukrainian territories of Crimea.
Finally, still speaking to TASS on Friday, Bogdanov revealed that The UN Security Council’s meeting on resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict may take place in two weeks. “Two days ago special representatives of the Quartet, who cooperate very actively and maintain permanent contact, gathered to draw up an unbiased and comprehensive report for the UNSC on the state of affairs in the Palestinian-Israeli settlement with an assessments of the events in relations with the Israelis and the Palestinians,” he said.
At which point Israel may or may not be protected by a US veto on the entire effort.
Bear Klein Said:
“Making “deals” with Arabs is like making babies, best done behind closed doors and in the dark” Dicha of Deborah
@ Keli-A:You are correct this is not the time to do anything of a deal nature.
I believe nothing is actually happening except for speculation that something is happening. Quietly mostly behind the scenes Israel and some of the Arabs are sharing intelligence.
Bibi would like to some business dealings with the Arabs. More than is already quietly happening anyway. He throws out a few words about the Arab peace plan in big broad strokes and people start writing articles all over the place.
@ Keli-A:
in reading this post I am encouraged that the enemies of the Jews are being weakened and suffering, becoming embroiled in disorder and chaos, their plans falling to pieces…. I look forward to more of the same. the more that europe suffers and destabilizes the less energy they have to stalk the Jews.
Keli-A Said:
everything you said is true. Let us hope that they are all simply putting on a show to keep the peace and BDS fools occupied and distracted rather than seriously pursuing a “peace” deal now. In fact such a “peace deal” would likely have a destabilizing effect on the area. I think that even the arabs dont want a peace deal, they want to ratchet up the war on Iran and its proxies.
Keli-A Said:
” A wrestler never gives up until he’s pinned” Dicha of Deborah
There is no reason at this time to enter into or agree to peace negotiations with the Palis. They have never been weaker Abbas less popular and 6 months before American elections.
Europe has little leverage on Israel and the ME in still mired in chaos…. Al aSisi position is shaky Jordan monarchy is Very shaky Syria will never be reconstituted or be a threat to Israel. Turkey is a mess politically and economically and there is no real pressure domestically in Israel to make any concessions to the Arabs or the Europeans. Iran remains an existential threat as does Hezbollah and any agreement with the Arabs will not eliminate the Iran Hezbollah threat. Hamas might topple the PA whenever they choose negating any agreement and no agreement will eliminate terror. So what’s going on? I see nothing in it for Israel.
If Britain opts to leave the EU the Union will soon disintegrate….. This is not the time to do anything.
@ Bear Klein:
I don’t tolerate garbage !!!!!!
@ honeybee:
Miss Bee- You always make so much clear sense.
Felix Quigley Said:
As someone ,” who doesn’t spend all day at the typewriter ” complaining about Netanyahu, you surely do.
Never end a sentence with a preposition. Is that really around with Netanyahu is playing.? Remember punctuation marks ?
They get land and control
They créate a ghetto Israel
They make a taqqiya play by saying they accept Israel as a Jewish state
Is that really what Netanyahu is playing around with?
Then the Saudis and Egyptians or whoever are very great danger to Israel, more even than ISIS,becaue they are driving into the weak spots of Israel along with a section of the Israelis.
The real defence of Israel is thus paralysed.
If Israel is going to combat this then it is going to have to head in a completely different direction.
On the historical issue it is true that Chuchill was above all others following British Imperial Interests but it was from his position of being trusted and even seen as a Zionist that he did so nuch damage
Ted Belman Said:
the only real opposition to this plan from BB appears based on the right of return to Israel, the recognition of a jewish state and the acceptance of security in the Jordan valley for a period of time.
In my view the arabs could easily accept all 3 of these points because they would get the land and control for nothing. I think the gulf arabs would accept the giving up of the right of return to the new ghetto Israel, that recognition of a jewish state is meaningless irrelevant words that can be explained to their masses as taquiyya and accepting security in the jordan valley for a specified time is also minor for them. the moment they see that they can get more by agreeing and accepting those conditions then Israel has lost the fight because Israel has never claimed the land outside the existing major blocks.
Ted Belman Said:
I have never heard of anyone floating this idea…. especially not from the government… so why would you think that BB would consider it….. I am perplexed?
Ted Belman Said:
the conclusion does not necessarily follow from the premise.
Ted Belman Said:
Indeed he could but sadly there is not one shred of evidence to assume such a pipe dream would occur. He will not negotiate for, nor will he attempt to build, new jewish settlements outside the major blocks. Why would the pals give him such a right when he arrives with his begging bowl to negotiate land from them? If BB has such a goal in mind then to achieve it he would have to unilaterally build those settlements prior to negotiations as they have no reason to entertain such a request. It appears to me that you are trying to paint a disturbing scenario with a glimmer of hope…. but that hope is yours and borne out of a delusional desire that BB will ask the pals to give him more land to build rather than less. What would he swap for the 10 K?
@ Keli-A:
Moxie , my Love, runs the World.
@ honeybee:
Well said HB makes more sense than what Felix the Commie ranted on about. 😛
Felix Quigley Said:
How can Churchill be a traitor to the Jews, he’s a Brit ! Russia is for Russia, France is for France . Isn’t it time the Jew’s were for Israel with an equal passion.
But what can immediately be done. The first thing is that you need a party. It is necessary to mobilise the Jewish people of Israel for power because they sure do not have a handle on power at this moment in time. They certainly fought for that power in 1948 and have defended the state many times since but in no sense do the Israeli people have the power today. The power is held firmly by a capitalist oligarchy which is inter-linked with the world wide capitalist system rulers which includes even Arab rulers.
The ordinary Jewish patriotic fighter is dismayed time and time again by these leaders like Netanyahu (Remmeber in last close election I said vote Netanyhau to keep out Livni and Barak) But that was for me a tactic to give us time. I knew that Netanyahu would waste that time. THIS MAN IS NOT A LEADER. If you trade with these international capitalist snakes you will be beaten and eaten. No matter what the commie-baiters tell us Russia and China are no communists they too are enmeshed in international capitalism. They are Stalinist traitors essentially.
So Netanyahu does waste time. He is given another opportunity by patriotic Jews only to prevent Herzog from coming to power and liquidating Jewish state power on the altar of multiculturalism.
Timewasting…Netanyahu flies here there and everywhere. He is seen shaking hands of all the leaders of the world who head for Israel to steal Israeli technology created by Jewish brains. BUT NETANYHAU WIL NOT LEAD AND WILL NEVER LEAD A STRUGGLE OF THE ISRALEI JEWS TO DO THE THINGS THAT ARE NECESSARY TO SAVE THE JEWISH HOMELAND.
So what to do. Well Churchill was a traitor to the Jews. He engineered the splitting away of Transjordan today’s Jordan. Sinai was part of that original deal as was Gaza, as was the Golan (the latter not the present measly bit). The Golan was later swapped out by France and Britain for Mosul. That whole must be repudiated.
You need a leadership party to take power in Israel that will place a ban on all talk related to OSLO such as areas A…B…C
There is one very good test for Arabs in this whole area which is intellectual and not at all possible to label as “racist”…it is FOR ARABS to subscribe to truthful history or else leave. I suspect strongly it will be the latter. Stupidity is never an excuse.
But it is not only Arabs who will need to leave. It is also a great many Jews who are traitors to the great idea of Israel as fought for during 2000 years ( a very long time in extreme suffering) who need to get the hell out. It is no less than the eighth wonder of the world that Amira Hass remains as an Israeli citizen. In other words Jewish people need to come to their senses.
Why would anyone in Israel OR CONNECTED with Israel complain.
The commenter has got it in one. All complaining by Jews of an anti-communist persuasión (commie baiters in effect like Joe McCarthy) who do not deal with the issue on hand are mere deflectors and seriously are a danger to the future existence of Israel.
This is the great trap that very many Jews fall into. They have either been brought up in America and in the atmosphere of the Cold War or are educated in same..so they deflect every discussion on key issues into “commie baiting”. Makes them in their total ignorance feel important. About the actual history of the issue they know nothing anyway.
The number one danger to Israel today is not Livni or Barak because Israelis have rejected their ideas though in the absence of leadership (I mean TOTAL absence) the ideas of those traitors still linger.
The danger is the lack of leadership in general but epitomised by Netanyahu.
Netanyahu as I have said many times is a reactor not an originator. He is like a human spider, he builds a web, then sits in the web (but he does take his dog out for a walk down town and cracks jokes with old pioneers though never the JEWISH youth in his jail) and watches others move but he keeps on making new parts of the web because conditions change, then because events never stop and serious things like ISIS do sadly keep happening, he eventually cannot get out of the web himself. He is trapped. It is a result of being part of the “democratic system” which is in our world today another name for a capitalist system internationally (I include not only US, Europe, but all the rest including Islam) which careers down hill.
Putin and the world should be told, when Russia will return the Ukrainian territories of Crimea and China will return Tibet and other territories that it annexed, we can talk about Judea and Samaria and the Golan heights.
This idea of Jewish sovereignty over settlementsnd Arab sovereignty over the Arab triangle suggests that the dividing border has less significance. No need to fight over it. Similarly as I wrote I think that they intend the same thinking over Jerusalem.
By enabling the settlers to stay where they are under Israeli sovereignty he is defusing the importance of the border. With this logic, he could negotiate the right to build Jewish settlements within 10 km of the separation barrier at our narrowest point.
Having said that this plan will go nowhere if not backed by the US. If they back it and have the Arab league at their back, they can impose it on the Palestinians.
I’m with Bernard Ross. If Arabs own Judea and Samaria so they can trade it to Jews, why, by the same logic do they not own land within the Green Line.
One cannot blame the russians or any other foreigners for advocating for those swaps as Israel has also been discussing the idea.
The problem with the swaps is that its basis rests on the assumption that the land in YS area C belonged to the pals before the Israelis stole it. Israel NEVER disputes that assumption and operates as if that assumption is accurate and correct. However, contrary to israels assumption that the jews stole the land I beleive Israel should be stating the opposite… that the land was specifically reserved for the settlement of Jews in YS by the LON mandate….. at best the land should be disputed and the normal approach to land that two parties claim is the standard solomon solution…. divide the disputed area in half. I see no reason for any approach more onerous to the Jews than Israel taking half of C… and yet it appears that Israels starting position is to echo the arab ultimatum to accept the assumption that the Jews stole YS and that the land belongs to the pals. A smarter jew would trump them by claiming it all and then giving them a little, at best…. but Israeli jews do not appear to be as smart as Trump.
I see no hope for a nation who has been teaching their children for at least 20 years that they stole the land from the pals and that the pals are the victims and that the land really belongs to the pals just as the arabs have been claiming all along… while at the same time the pals teach the same to their children: that the jews stole their land and it really belongs to them. When the world looks to see that both sides agree that the jews stole the arabs land they obviously and predictably must look at the jews and say to them: you have admitted for years that you stole their land so hurry up and give it back to them, you jew thieves.
Duh, thats what the world has been saying based on what Israel has been saying and doing…. so why would anyone in Israel complain when they are called thieves by others…. after all Israel has been educating its own children to that effect for 20 years minimum and those children must now beleive the brainwashing they were fed. BB has done nothing to dispel this lie and everything to facilitate the lie.
Putin just said as Press Conference with Bibi that he supports a just solution to the Israeli – Palestinian conflict.
That can mean anything to anyone. Which means the Russians are not putting any heat on Israel. Bibi and Putin agreed to fight terrorism together.
The Russians put on a very respectful greeting to Bibi in Russia.
“I can’t see Hamas going along, or the Arab Israelis who end up in Palestine. Israel can’t cancel their citizenship and they could always move back into Israel.”
I don’t think the issue for Netanyahu is transferring Arab citizens out of the country; the issue is keeping the Maale Adunim and the other major blocs. As for Hamas, I guess it will be up to el-Sisi to keep them in line.
I have a feeling that Bibi’s problem is not a peace agreement, per se, but who creates it. He would rather have an agreement crafted by Russia and the Sunni states who are just as wary of Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas as is Israel, rather than by the Western Left (UN, EU and the Obama/Shrillary administration), who are driven first and foremost by their hatred for Israel even over their concern for terrorism.
Contrary to the latest media buzz, Russia is not Israel’s friend and won’t be in my lifetime or beyond. In Hebrew Russia means evil and it still is. Of course I’m not advocating that Israel continue a cold war with Russia but Netanyahu and his government as well as all of Israel’s left needs to throw the crazy idea of giving away territory to her enemies into the garbage can.
The more Netanyahu talks about peace with arabs the more he legitimizes their bogus case. What needs to be said is this simple truth: We refuse to commit national suicide by giving away any territories to our enemies.
To Russia: When you stop supporting the # 1 terrorist state in the world, Iran, who continues to want to see us dead, maybe then we can talk politics.
To France: When you finally open your eyes to the Islamic terror that you have permitted to run rampant in your own country and close immigration to Muslims (like Trump has suggested the US do), then maybe we can talk politics.
Basically to the rest of the world: After all of your help to protect us from the Nazi murderers, it’s high time to mind your own F’n business!