By Dr Mordechai Kedar
Israel faces three immediate threats today: the possibility of a nuclear Iran, well over 100,000 rockets and mortars poised from three directions (Iran, Lebanon, Gaza plus terrorists in Syria and Egypt) and the Two State Solution.
The first two threats seem obvious, but why do we think that the Two State Solution could lead to the demise of our beloved Israel? After all, it’s been the mainstay policy thrust upon Israel with various international initiatives and roadmaps to peace. But in reality it would bring about the opposite result.
The creation of an artificial Palestinian state requiring the uprooting of Jewish families where no Arab population currently exists would lead to indefensible borders for the Jewish homeland. The more moderate PA and Fatah want a Palestinian state as a precursor for the ultimate demise of Israel. Hamas remains opposed to any agreement which establishes a border recognizing the Israeli state. Any proposed re-unification between Hamas and Fatah is an obvious ploy that further threatens the survival of Israel and the Jewish people. The recent attacks against Israel by Hamas are now coordinated with the militant pro-Syrian, Iran-backed Islamic Jihad. Plus the Popular Resistance Committee is yet another terrorist group operating from Gaza.
The Arab Spring has brought about a much less stable region. Israel can no longer allow the rest of the world to dictate policy that makes it more difficult for the Jewish nation to survive. Israel must declare it’s own independent solution with regards to the so-called Palestinian movement and militant jihadism that appears to be on the accendancy. Doing nothing only invites intervention from abroad.
Prior to statehood in 1948 the larger territory was known as the British Mandate of Palestine. The Jewish people, who have been on this land continuously for 3,285 years, were often referred to as the Palestinians from the early 1920’s until statehood in 1948. Here are just two examples that prove this important distinction. The Palestine Post was founded by an American Jew in December 1932 in the Mandate of Palestine and supported the struggle for a Jewish Homeland. In 1950, two years after the State of Israel was declared, the paper was renamed The Jerusalem Post. And what started as the Palestine Symphony Orchestra is known today as the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra.
The Arabs who emigrated to the territory in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s to live and prosper among the Jews never wanted to be recognized as the Palestinians until it became a convenient tool in their opposition to the Jewish Homeland. In 1964 the PLO was formed which finally transformed the mantle of Palestinian from the pre-statehood Jews to the post-statehood Arabs.
Historically there never existed an Arab or Islamic state of Palestine with a capital in Jerusalem. The capital of “Jund Falastin” (“The District of Palestine”) under the Islamic 7th century occupation was the city of Ramle, 30 kilometers to the west of Jerusalem. It is very important that this historical truth be recognized as a basis for peace.
There is no Occupied territory west of the Jordan River. There is Disputed territory as a result of wars thrust upon Israel by jealous Arab neighbors. Today Arabs live within the State of Israel and in Gaza, Judea and Samaria. These Arab population centers are not going away and neither is the State of Israel.
Gaza is already a state-like entity, since Hamas took it over by force from the PLO in June 2007, thus breaking the Palestinian Authority into two separate entities. If Israel is forced to leave Judea and Samaria as part of a peace agreement, it becomes very possible that the more militant Hamas would eventually take over from the current PA/Fatah regime just as they did in Gaza, either by elections or by force. No one can guarantee otherwise.
Due to tribal rifts and local patriotism there will never be a successful unity government among the Palestinian Arab population centers in Judea and Samaria or Gaza. Like the PLO in the past, the PA/Fatah and Hamas do not represent the true ambitions of the majority of peaceful Arabs who just want a better future for their children within a traditional framework and local governance. The failed Two State Solution is rapidly heading to the dustbin of history where it belongs.
Successful Arab leadership must be independent, local and firmly rooted with a traditional and homogenous sociological foundation. Israel and the world should recognize and support local leadership in the Arab Palestinian population centers that desire lasting peaceful relations as independent city-states. Because of ongoing corruption and an overt anti-Israel agenda, the leaders of the PLO, PA/Fatah and Hamas have devoted almost a half century in a futile attempt to eliminate Israel and destroy all that her citizens have accomplished.
The eight city-states would comprise the areas of Jenin, Nablus, Ramallah, Jericho, Tul-Karm, Kalkilya, the Arab part of Hebron and the Gaza strip. Local residents would become citizens of these eight independent countries. Any Arab leadership that attempts to circumvent or dominate the development of these Palestinian Emirates would inhibit a future of security and economic opportunity for the citizens of these eight independent countries.
The Arab refugee situation can only be solved if there is lasting stability in the region. In 1948 approximately 500,000 Arabs were uprooted in advance of an Arab attack on Israel. At the same time about 850,000 Jews were thrown out of neighboring Arab countries, and most of the Jewish refugees successfully resettled in Israel. The Arab refugees have since been discriminated against by the Arab countries in the region in conjunction with the biased policies of UNRWA, so not a single Arab refugee has ever been resettled. The former director of the refugee agency in Jordan, Sir Alexander Galloway, actually stated, “The Arab nations do not want to solve the Arab refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore… as a weapon against Israel.” The obvious failure of the peace initiatives, which have been based on false assumptions for so many decades, has only perpetuated the Arab refugee problem and human suffering.
Complex problems require simple, workable solutions. The development of the Palestinian Emirates is a viable alternative based on the sociology of the different clans and tribes in Gaza, Judea and Samaria. This initiative will bring about a stable peace to the region and added security for Israel.
Thank you for supporting the development of the eight independent Palestinian Emirates.
Palestinian Emirates – Eighteen Point Executive Summary
1/ The only true loyalty for Middle Eastern Arabs is to family, clan and tribe and the local sheikhs who are their true leaders.
2/ There is little trust that currently exists between peoples of the different tribes in the Arab Palestinian cities of Judea, Samaria and Gaza.
3/ Any PA led government of a Palestinian state would most likely become another corrupt and failing Arab state.
4/ If a Palestinian state existed the more militant Hamas would soon seize control in Judea & Samaria from the less militant, weak and corrupt PA/Fatah.
5/ Israel would be faced on two borders by Hamas whose Charter openly calls for the destruction of the Jewish Homeland and the killing of Jews worldwide.
6/ The PA/Fatah and Hamas are not reliable negotiating partners for peace and the concept of the Two State Solution must be abandoned.
7/ Israel must now take the lead to find a workable solution in light of the recent UN vote which did not confer actual statehood to the Palestinians.
8/ As tribal leaders the individual sheikhs may want their independence from the PA to chart their own destiny of peace and prosperity.
9/ Israel should recognize the development of independent city-states in seven cities of Judea & Sumaria which would likely occur over a period of years.
10/ The eight city-states would comprise the areas of Jenin, Nablus, Ramallah, Jericho, Tul-Karm, Kalkilya, the Arab part of Hebron and Gaza.
11/ Local residents would become citizens of these eight independent city-states while those remaining in rural lands would have the choice to become citizens of Israel.
12/ The Palestinian refugee problem can only be addressed once the UN realizes that there is no Right of Return for Arabs as citizens of Israel. Naturally Arabs should find their solutions in Arab states, not the one Jewish state.
13/ As these independent Arab Palestinian city-states develop they may choose to form a beneficial alliance together to increase security, economic development and other aspects of common interest.
14/ The leaders of these emerging city-states are more likely to accept Israel as the Jewish Homeland and root out terrorist and jihadist elements within their secure borders.
15/ Israel would absorb and control the less populated areas of Judea & Samaria to enhance security for the region and expand housing and commercial development.
16/ The PA leadership will eventually disappear from Judea & Samaria once the city-state movement takes root.
17/ Gaza remains an ongoing problem requiring possible future Israeli defensive military action and will only have freedom and opportunity for it’s citizens once Hamas and the other jihadists no longer behave like terror groups against Israel, but rather manage their state for the sake of their people.
18/ Jerusalem will remain as it has been since 1967, the undivided capital of Israel that welcomes peaceful people of all religions to live, visit and pray there.
CuriousAmerican Said:
I was thinking of trucks across the borders….and then charging them cab fare.
“Jews don’t like to part with their money”
but then you knew that,
which is why you keep repeating..
CuriousAmerican Said:
“Pay up, you pesky jews”
@ yamit82:
Yes, I have friends who were in the Holocaust and your remarks and accusations (also the ones made through HB) are wildly over the top. You sound a lot like the extreme left (Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein come to mind).
@ Dean:
No,I am Honey Bee,Yamit is a much better speller, I cain’t spell worth a dern.
@ yamit82:
Are you Honey Bee?
Dean Said:
Questions:
Were you there?
Did you have friends or relatives who were?
Are you knowledgeable on the subject?
What do you really know about horrors? Have you ever been in a real life threatening situation?
Are you a Jew who defines his Jewishness and Jewish identity based on the tragedy of the holocaust?
I don’t.
@ yamit82:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOOOOOO,Darlin. I have been watching “The Debt” on DVD in bits and pieces. Iam somewhat over sensitive to the subject.
Honey Bee Said:
You can be my Bitch anytime. 😉
Dean Said:
You had two acceptable choices in response to HB’s comment to you.
Ignore it
Give a response within the context as you understood her comment.
You choose a third option attacking her and questioning her sanity. You had better demonstrate you are professionally qualified to make such a diagnosis otherwise you are out of line as was your comment.
You may take offense which is your right but you do not have the right to call her or anyone else psychotic. There are many things you have said that I would characterize as psychologically dysfunctional and I could have offered a very credible critique in support of my opinion. I was afraid you might break up in tears and I hate to see grown men bawl on a public forum, you are I assume a man?
@ CuriousAmerican:
Okay I nominate the one who believes in this plan (Curious American) with the fervor and righteousness you have to create a detailed plan. After you have this plan start a website and start organizing it. When you have 10 Arab families and all their cousins included moved into Buenos Palestiniana, Argentina I will say you are serious and not just blowing keyboard smoke into everyone’s nostrils.
At this point I am under the impression that you have this what you think is a clever one liner to blow smoke with. I will be happy if you show me wrong. But if I am not wrong kindly go away and find other people to challenge with your obvious superior intellect!
CuriousAmerican Said:
Kind people prefer to humor dementia than confront it with the truth.
HB: There is a offensively psychotic quality to your remarks mixed in with what I detect as a keen realization of the kind of response that you want to elicit from those you target. This is not the right forum to seek professional help.
CuriousAmerican Said:
CuriousAmerican Said:
The shoe just dropped;
the real CA just stood up.
I rest my case.
CuriousAmerican Said:
HE’S BACK! 🙂
@ Dean:
YOU are not allowed,you sullly their scarifice.
@ Honey Bee:
Why should we not speak about the horrors of the Holocaust?
CuriousAmerican Said:
Yamit has been nothing, but kind to me.
Dean Said:
You have no Right to speak of the Holocaust, never allow your lips to speak its name again. NEVER NEVER NEVER
If this interpretation were true,
then it is a very sick, twisted reason why there are so few Jews in the world due to the necessity to purge them every 50 years or so for their transgressions.
I think that you and the Islamists would probably agree on that point. Their Islamic religion nicely dovetails into the scenario as they want to help eliminate Jews – now they have a purpose sanctioned by your interpretation as G-d’s little helpers.
If that explanation held true, nobody would risk being a Jew because G-d treats Jews with such a heavy, punishing hand, but leaves tormentors and evil doers safe to conduct their treachery against us.
If there is one G-d and he has different rules for Jews, holding them to hundreds of commandments while others (non-Jews) get away with diddly squat, then one would conclude that G-d only rules over the kingdom of Israel and uses all other people to punish Jews; but our executioners are never punished.
You paint a dreadful picture of Judaism and make “non believers and [those] of tiny faith” seem the smart ones for questioning their faith because to you Judaism is all risk and a doomed future with no reward.
Michael Devolin Said:
Michael, you are making a false assumtion.
“Your rabbis are good at twisting Scripture”
This is the “intellectual” who is reproving Jews about ad hominem attacks. Does anyone need a better example of his anti-Semitism? He does not deserve any respect, either from me or the Jews who post on this blog. It is impossible to debate on any level intellectually with animals. What he gets from me, he deserves. Iron sharpens iron.
Well that is a problem!
If they are so hostile, why would you want them in your hemisphere? Pay them to move to South America.
You cannot keep hostile people under martial law without making them more hostile.
Today, most Jews who to convert to Christianity, do so because of Messianic Jews who prosyletize fellow Jews, NOT because of Gentiles prosyletization.
Unfortunate! We Gentiles should be doing a better job at presenting the Moshiach.
That beintg said. As a percentage More Jews find Christ than Gentiles find Torah. If the percentages were equal you would have hundreds of millions of Torah observant Jews.
ENJOY YAMIT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeXZh9F7JmI
Dean Said:
Message should be clear and obvious. A- The Jewish exile was meant as a punishment not an end in itself.
Jews had an option of leaving the exile and refused opting to stay in the exile over what is mandated by Jewish Law, custom and tradition.
B- a clear biblical imperative for Jews. “The return to the homeland” The Jewish religion was becoming too corrupted and too removed from it’s nationalistic raison d’etre and roots. Judaism had morphed into a religion it was never meant to be, personal rituals replaced the laws and customs revolving around the Land of Israel and the Temple. Over a third of the 613 commandments a Jews is required to observe were either rejected,neglected and diluted.
Just as the Israelite slaves had to die off in the desert so to European Jewry had to be eliminated and only the few strong mostly young Jews who survived and were prepared to fight and die for the nascent emerging new State were allowed to survive. Most of those who died would have had the most deleterious effect in accomplishing the fete of nation building and nation survival fighting.
Last point on this theme. European Jewry was rapidly becoming assimilated in all that entails i.e, German Jewry and today Western and particularly American Jewry. We would have lost most of them in any event.
In America for the past 10-15 years American Jewry is losing between 80-100 Jews a day to assimilation. Do the math is that not the equivalent of a holocaust at least in the numbers of Jews lost to the Jewish people?
The answers and reasons are all outlined and defined in our Jewish Book, it’s only those who are non believers and of tiny faith who fail to understand.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Curious, in reading your comments it appears if it is not invented by you it is not valid. Even if you are ignorant of the idea. Here is a bit about the Hebron Sheik
The first of all about the Hebron strongman Sheik Farid Khader el-Ja’abari is one of the Palestinian Authority’s most outspoken opponents • He rejects the idea of a Palestinian state and keeps close contact with the IDF and Jewish settlers. (http://www.levitt.com/news/2011/12/01/the-moderate-sheik-of-hebron-farid-khader-el-ja%E2%80%99abari).
Question to you if the Palestinians in Hebron agreed to become an emirate of Hebron would you concede to go along with it. Their choice might be be ruled by Israel, Hebron Sheik, or be loyal citizens to the Jewish State of Israel, or four move to the Curious South American State of ???
Israel does not need 1.5 million people (PA Arabs) as part of its State that want to destroy that is why you do not enfranchise them. You do not enfranchise Hamas and their cousins. Enough problems without a 5th column of citizens. Reality is Reality. They want to destroy the State not grow it.
CuriousAmerican Said:
The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 pt #1
The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 pt #2
CuriousAmerican Said:
Twice? Not Thrice? There is no Jewish source for such a concept and if you can find one let’s have it.
“…foolish people without understanding”
I do not have absolute belief that faith will not let us down. Through the ages we have witnessed good, faithful people being led into the darkness of concentration camps hoping against hope that G-d would save them. There was no such salvation; and so what conclusion should we draw as these horrors happen repeatedly time after time?
The “miracle” that is Israel is in many ways due to the strength of people who fought to make sure that the “miracle” would become a reality. I would never count on miracles to save us but I would put more hope/stock in the people, intelligence, determination and weapons that have and will deliver us from evil.
Israel did not begin with the Holocaust but the Holocaust did steel the determination of people to whom Never Again meant something. Those who were against Israel were those who naively believed that the Jewish people could survive without a country or that they did not deserve one of their own and there are ultra-religious today who think that Israel has no place in their belief system – and they pay respectful, appreciatory visits to Iran’s mullahs (both the hard left and the hard right religious conduct themselves in the same way). Go figure them out!
If religion works for you to answer THE major questions of the universe and to help structure your existence, then more power to you. I respect you and your beliefs provided your beliefs do not, as is the case with Islamic believers, interfere in the way I live my life.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Most Jews who convert out of Judaism do not convert to christianity but to New Age crap and Zen Cults.
This is the ultimate “measure for measure.” Thechristians try to create a way to lure unsuspecting Jews into a church by making the church look like a synagogue and by pretending they are Jews, but instead luring Jews, they lure christians. Those christians see the legitimacy in authentic Judaism, leave the fakes behind, and convert to become halachically Jewish!
Only Hashm could come up with such a perfect answer to the evil that these christians had planned for us. Now, instead of getting Jews to believe in their god-on-a-stick, they are getting christians to see the beauty of Judaism.
This article is very long and very detailed and includes the history of the “Jews for J” movement, some of the ways that they intended to target Jews, how they changed their tactics to be even more underhanded (if that’s possible), and what the result of their behavior has been.
“Messianic Judaism” has proven ineffective in evangelizing Jews. “Messianic Synagogues” Target Jews but Hit Christians, Some of Whom Are Converting to Judaism 😛
http://jewishvoiceandopinion.com/a/JVO20090205.html
CuriousAmerican Said:
These tribes are all related to the Bedouins in the Negev and Y&S they are only divided by the IDF who can’t do an adequate Job to keep them separated. Bedouin Loyalty is first and foremost to their tribes.
Would you allow tribes of Al-Qaeda to exist in America? Maybe you would.
He fulfilled Isaiah 53
He comes twice.
There is nothing creative about this. Part 1 of Oslo gave the Arabs local autonomy. What is new?! There is nothing in Eight State Plan that is either new or creative.
It is repackaging the present policy in the hopes that the Arab goyim will be stupid enough to think they are being offered a new and better deal.
The suggestion is insulting – chiefly because he asserts it is new, it is not. It is NOT the NEW AND IMPROVED PEACE PROCESS. It is the SAME OLD SAME OLD. You may redefine pork and call it beef, but that won’t make it kosher.
Bully for him! By local he probably means that he can drive the settler out of Hebron.
It is not offensive. Some of what Israel does is brutal.
Pay the Arabs to leave.
Stupid repackaging of old policies will not bring peace.
Here is a question:
If you want to give them autonomy, why not just enfranchise them like you did the Arabs inside the 1967 borders?
Dean Said:
Jeremiah 5:21. Hearken to this, foolish people without understanding; they have eyes yet they see not, they have ears yet they hear not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydwxy9yqhzM
How many Jews envisioned, considered and believed that there would be an independent Jewish State just 100 years ago?
I think if a miracle hit you over the head you wouldn’t recognize it.
CuriousAmerican Said:
“The Entire Word that I command you: that shall you observe to do; you shall not add to it and you shall not subtract from it.” (Deuteronomy 13:1).
And just to reveal a bit of the Future to our people, G-d immediately added to the preceding Admonishment this specific Prophetic Warning:
And just so that doubt should not creep into our souls about G-d’s Faithfulness to His own Word, the Prophet Samuel reminds us that:
Since Hebrew Scripture warns us that the nations’ Scriptures, even if otherwise attractive and compelling, are nevertheless False, we Jews are certainly required to treat the deities described in their Scriptures as False, and we are most certainly prohibited from intellectually merging or identifying their deities with the G-d of Israel.
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:
A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: “God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One” (Zechariah 14:9).
The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.
Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Actually Curious the only thing you are partially correct about this is Annexing Area C and coming up with a creative way of letting people manage their own lives in Area A/B. Maybe not perfect but certainly worth discussing and maybe trying or at least part.
By the way the head Sheik of Hebron (head of the clan their) also wants to govern at the local level.
Kindly stop your offensive language about brutality! Brutality in the middle east is as in Syria. In war we treat the Palestinians better than some of these Arabs treat each other. Did you know 100,000 Palestinians from Judah and Samaria receive medical treatment in Israeli hospitals each year. Brutal people do not do this with a people who would wipe them out of existence if they could?
When the land is yours you can do what you want with it and Israel has always improved the land and made living better for the people regardless of who they are or what their religion happens to be. Not so for Muslims and other previous inhabitants, usurpers and terrorists who past and present occupy the land of Israel.
Israel needs to define its borders now before it enters into any more farcical “peace” plans. I think that Canadian Otter once said that we in the Diaspora cannot be expected to be more supportive of Israel than Israel is of itself. If Israel cannot come up with a realistic plan of its own without mother USA calling the shots, then why does anyone expect that Jews will be smart enough NOT to buy into retarded notions of two states with two peoples or other manifestations of that “formula” drilled into them by Israel and the world media?
Following the teachings of the bible and using the bible as the template for a solution to Israel’s situation sounds fine until one has to carry it out in the real wold.
We rightfully condemn Islam which calls for annihilation or subjugation of Jews and solutions based on their “religious” template for a solution involving the end of the existence of Israel in what they have falsely presented as their Caliphate. There in no equation between the two religions because I consider Islam to be a political cult, not a religion. However, in coming up with something viable, let’s concentrate on reality and not wishful thinking.
What has this got to do with our discussion on Judea and Samaria?
Most conversion of Jews is now done by Jews…. Jews for Jesus, et al.
It really bugs you that roughly 1/4 of Modern Day Jewry accepts Yeshua HaMoshiach, may his name live forever. (I got that statistic from a Jewish Newspaper)
I know Jews who still go to synagogue but tell me privately that they believe in Jesus.
What guarantee do you have that your sons and grandsons give up on living in a country in a permanent state of war and return to Brooklyn, France, England, as so many are starting to do?
Payment is voluntary transfer. What are you complaining about?
If you keep brutalizing them, they will continue to fight.
Your rabbis are good at twisting Scripture, especially when it comes to their denial of Yeshua HaMoshiach, May His Name Live Forever.
So here is the parsha for today. When it says DRIVE OUT … it means … drive them in a car to the airport, given them the money, and the papers, and a ticket for Buenos Aires, Caracas, Santiago de Chile, or Rio de Janiero.
If you want to be brutal, make sure the car which drives them to the airport has bad shock absorbers.
Call PARSHA AIRLINES
It is clear thinking logic like that – on both sides – which has kept the Mideast inflamed for a century.</sarcasm>
The young ones – the breeders – will. Maybe slowly at first. 10% then 20%, but soon enough, it will become a flood. As people realize the young kids are moving away, there will be a panic to move.
The young kids do not have property. You are just paying them to leave before they produce the next generation. That is all.
If they take the money and are flown to Argentina, how will the PA kill them?
Think man. Think!
They don’t have assassins in Buenos Aires.
I have thought it through. You have not.
Those are legally independent states. Israel is offering only bantustans.
The Eight State Solution is not creative. It is what you have now. Bantustans.
This NEW IDEA of Doctor Mordechai Kenar just a NEW way of saying that Israel should change nothing. It is the same old policy packaged in new words. Nothing has changed. It won’t work. Situations do not improve because you redefine them. Situations improve when the improve in reality.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Do you think the Arabs are all or most going to move if you pay them? What about the Palestinian death penalty for selling to Jews. Is that in your perfect calculus?
This is a creative solution to let people live under their own local rule just like the Vatican or just like San Marino.
It certainly worth exploring in part as new creative solutions are needed.
CuriousAmerican Said:
“. . . Maybe G-d wasn’t Bluffing When HE Said We Should “Drive Out the Inhabitants of the Land Before You.”
“The L-rd spoke to Moses in the plains of Moab by the Jordan at Jericho, saying:
“I don’t suppose that G-d could have been much clearer here. We are COMMANDED to rid the land of Israel of our enemies.
The command is especially harsh and clear because G-d knows that this will be very hard for us to do.
Not hard as in “we are not a strong military force,” but hard as in “all the other nations will despise us.”
Peer pressure, it seems, is just as difficult for nations as it is for adolescents.” Michelle Nevada
debkafile’s military sources report that the Islamic Liberation Army – which has declared its objective as the seizure of all of Sinai and its transformation into a Muslim Caliphate – is a conglomerate of five terrorist groups:
1. Indigenous Bedouin tribes who have a score to settle with the Egyptian army; (There are over 350,000 Bedouin tribesmen in Sinai)
2. Palestinians from the Gaza Strip drawn into extremist Salafi sects which are integral parts of al Qaeda.
3. Hundreds of adherents of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and the murderous Jamaa al-Islamiya who escaped Egyptian prisons on January 29 at the peak of the popular revolution which overthrew Hosni Mubarak. The former jailbirds made a beeline for Sinai and today constitute the hard operational core of the movement.
4. Al Qaeda adherents, who made their way to Sinai after violent careers in Afghanistan and Pakistan in the late 1990s and early 2000s.
5. Followers of various Egyptian Sufi and dervish orders.
CuriousAmerican Said:
What does the Jewish Bible say we should do with them? It does not say we should pay them. Tell us what our bible or our G-d says we should do to them?
Should we follow G-d’s command or yours? If you say yours then you are calling our G-d a Liar, fraud brutal and hateful.
The problem is difficult, divisive, and always emotional when solutions are discussed. Maybe the day will come when Israel’s foes will destroy themselves to such an extent that they will be begging Israel to “extend from the desert to Lebanon, and from the Euphrates River to the Mediterranean Sea.”
The idea of “Palestinian” city states or provinces surrounding Israel would only be possible in a pacified Middle East where Jordan forms most of the land that would make up those provinces, emirates or settlements and that is unlikely to happen anytime soon.
Paid incentives to families/individuals might have limited success until the recipients wander back to collect more dole and/or resume their war against Israel.
The threat of a scorched earth policy is morally repugnant but that option should not be taken off the table for strategic reasons and used only in a national existential emergency. Remember, Muslims have never repudiated and removed the Israel annihilation passages from their charters and holy books and the nuclear Holocaust threat is now real. They are and always have been at war with Israel so sometimes they will get what they deserve – war.
A while back there was discussion on Israpundit on how the “status quo” was the best of all current options but the problem with the status quo is that things are changing but the same old stupid solutions based on Israel’s demise to satisfy Islam are still on the table and being trotted out once again by Obama. The status quo is static within a forever changing situation that does not work in Israel’s favor.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Yes you are because you would afford them rights and conditional legitimacy.
Paying them is an admittance that they have rights to the land that they would cede to the State in lieu of an agreed sum of money.
I afford them no such rights and consider them belligerent occupiers of our Land with no rights other than the freedom to leave voluntarily.
You can not guarantee under your proposal that ALL of the Arabs would agree to leave for any payment. Partial Arab depopulation will not solve their problem nor ours. What guarantee can you give that after your pets accept payment and leave to where-ever, that at some point in the future they will not attempt to regain what they sold by force or other means? What guarantee can you give that the sons and grandsons of those bought out to leave will not attempt to reclaim what their fathers and grandfathers gave up?
Transfer either voluntarily or by coercion is the most humanitarian solution. We won’t need to kill them in the future and many Jews lives will also be spared as well.
I have suggested in the past that you christians should take up collections and pay them after all they are all potential converts if you can wein them out of here to where you can isolate them.
You christians spend hundreds of millions $$$$$ a year to convert Jews and I can think of no better use for that money then to give it to your pets instead. We win you win. It’s not as if you don’t have the money, all that is required is for you christians to change the object and goals the money you raise is used for: Arabs instead of Jews. That seems to me to be an equitable workable solution.
“Either enfranchise the Arab or pay them to move.”
Go f*** yourself.
If I had my way, anti-Zionist scum like the Good Doctor would not be allowed on this blog. But what do I know.
The Good Doctor still doesn’t realize that no one here gives a shit about what he thinks or how “brutal” he is not. He is nothing. He’s a Jew-baiter who gets his rocks off arguing with Jews. That’s all he is. Of course he will accuse Yamit of being callous: this has been the accusation levelled at Jews by their enemies long before the modern State of Israel even existed. How could a virulent Jew-hater like the Good Doctor understand or accept the tenets of Zionism? The Good Doctor is an anti-Zionist/anti-Jewish bigot masquerading as an anti-jihadist. He’s certain if he spouts off enough anti-jihadist jargon, he can camouflage his hatred of the Jews. He exposes himself and his anti-Jewish hatred when he accuses Yamit of being injudicious, of being “brutal and hateful” when Yamit is merely responding in kind to a “brutal and hateful” Arab Muslim enemy. Big tough keyboard warrior.
No! I am calling you brutal and hateful, but you will probably take that as a compliment.
What is amazing is that I am not denying Israel’s claim to Judea and Samaria. Your problem
is that I am not sufficiently brutal enough with them to please you.
CuriousAmerican Said:
CuriousAmerican Said:
Yamit82 Said:
We will never pay them to leave.
We will eventually force them to leave.
Tanks, bullets and napalm can be very persuasive. Up to them how they go.
“Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you……”,
“Every place where you set your foot will be yours: Your territory will extend from the desert to Lebanon, and from the Euphrates River to the Mediterranean Sea.”
You calling our G-d a liar and a fraud?
Is he seriously arguing for eight statelets?
That is insane? (I know some here will love it. Any justification which lets Israel keep J&S without enfranchising the Arabs on it.)
Not only will the world howl (as if Israel cared), not only with the Arabs howl (as if Israel cared), but Israel Jews themselves will howl.
But this is truly beyond belief. Why not 300 states and break it down by blocks. The Crips of Ramallah vs. the Bloods of North Ramallah, and don’t forget the Christians on the West Side, the West End Crusaders?
Either enfranchise the Arabs or pay them to move. It is that simple.
Stop trying to justify the present atrocity with theoretical silliness masquerading as deep thought.
Either enfranchise the Arab or pay them to move.
This is fancy gobbledook for the Bennett plan, only it does not mention areas A, B, & C, but uses cities and rural areas. This is deceitful.
Either enfranchise them. Or pay them to move.