By Walter E. Block & Peloni
Walter E. Block:
Banishment, being exiled from a particular place or jurisdiction, has a long history. The first case on record was Adam and Eve who were dismissed from the Garden of Eden for various types of miscellaneous misbehavior.
Are there any other cases where one group of people was compelled to depart from a geographical area they had long occupied? Yes, unhappily, there are. The Jews have no monopoly on this sort of thing, but they are high up on any historical compilation of being kicked out of a country. This occurred to the “Israelites by the Assyrian king Sargon II in 720 BCE, the Judeans who were deported by Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar II in 586 BC, and the Jews following the destruction of the second Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70.”
Not only groups of people can be exiled. This can occur, too, to individuals. For example, Napoleon was banished to the remote island of St Helena. Another case in point: Julius Caesar banished fellow Roman Publius Cimber; ditto for Brutus and Cassius who were treated in the same manner by Mark Antony. Perhaps the most high profile case of this phenomenon was the expulsion of English convicts to Canada and Australia. It would of course be a gigantic exaggeration to say that the latter country was comprised mainly of people found guilty of a crime in England, but the thought is difficult to dismiss entirely. Being banned to Siberia was a common punishment in the Soviet Union. Expulsion, instead of incarceration or execution is sometimes utilized by non-Europeans. For example, the indigenous peoples of Canada also engaged in this practice, using it as a punishment for tribal criminals.
Banishment is by no means a positive experience. However, it cannot be denied that there are worse ways to be treated than that. For example, the Jews in Germany in the late 1930s and early 1940s would have given their eye-teeth to have been treated in this manner. This benefit was not granted to them, and in the event they were forced to give up quite a bit more than just a few incisors. No, banishment is far from the worst thing that can be visited upon a community.
In the aftermath of the wars of 1947 in the sub-continent, Hindus were banned from Pakistan, and Muslims were exiled from India. Here, there was no issue of individual criminality. Rather, it was a case of reducing inter-community violence.
Nor can we forget about the Versailles Treaty ending World War I which relocated entire populations against their will, in punishment for Germany.
According to Der Spiegle, regarding the aftermath of World War II:
“But the people fleeing the Red Army were unaware that the Allies had already agreed with the Polish government-in-exile to hand over large parts of eastern Germany to Poland and resettle the Germans who were living there.
“All those who didn’t manage to escape in time fell victim to the frenzied expulsions that were carried out until July 1945. The organized resettlement of Germans and ethnic Germans from Germany’s former eastern areas and the Sudetenland began in January 1946. In all, some 14 million Germans lost their homes.”
What is the case for the banishment of Palestinians from Gaza, Judea, Samaria? It is an uneasy one. On the positive side, in behalf of such an expulsion, is the fact that many of the fighting age male Arabs in these countries are indeed criminals; albeit certainly not all of them. Many are members of that terrorist organization, Hamas. A goodly number were involved in the atrocities of October 7, 2023. But more than that. Rockets continually emanate from Gaza, aimed at civilian populations in Israel, and if that is not criminal behavior, then nothing is criminal behavior. As for suicide bombings, this is by no means limited to the male members of this community. Awarding of pensions to the families of such murderers is aiding and abetting criminality and is itself a crime. Further, the overwhelming proportion of Gazans vote in support of Hamas, a criminal organization if ever there was one. In addition, there is the Hindu-Muslim, India-Pakistan case for separating peoples who simply show no evidence of being able to co exist.
On the negative side of this equation is the fact it is clearly not the case that a criminal indictment can apply to each and every last Palestinian. If all of them were deported, this would obviously entail punishing innocent people, a clear and present injustice.
If, arguendo, all Palestinians were indeed expelled from Gaza, Judea and Samaria, where would they go? One answer is, Wherever they wanted to go. The problem with that answer is that there are not all that many countries which would welcome them. When a Canadian official was asked in the 1930s how many Jewish immigrants his country would welcome, his famous answer was: “None is too many.” One fear is that all too many countries would react in virtually the same manner when confronted with the question of how many Palestinians they would be happy to accept (one reason for this is the tendency for this group of people to try to take over the governments of countries that have hosted them; just ask King Hussain of Jordan about that).
No, it would be inconceivable that any one nation would welcome all roughly 2 million Palestinians from Gaza and some 3 million from Judea and Samaria. That would be recipe for disaster. However, there are almost 200 different countries in the world, virtually all of which have voted against Israel and in favor of the Palestinians in the UN and other such international organizations. It is time, it is long past time, not for them to put their money where their mouths are, but, at least to put out their welcome mats where their hearts and votes are. All that would be needed to accommodate that many exiles would be roughly 25,000 people for each.
Each of them could safely put up with this scant few thousand expelled Palestinians without any great danger to themselves. The first on the list with a moral obligation to do just that would be South Africa. It is on record as considering Israel to be a country guilty of apartheid, genocide, and all the rest. Surely, if that nation had any decency at all, it would lead the parade in this regard and welcome far more than their mathematical proportionate share. Next in the batter’s box would be all those European countries shedding crocodile tears about the victims of Israeli aggression. Let them each step up to the plate and volunteer to take in their proportionate share of twenty five thousand. Third in the batting order would be all the other Arab countries. These are their brethren, after all.
My favorite group, in the clean-up batter’s position, would be all of those campus radicals recently protesting against Israel. Let each of these students (and their many non-student colleagues) adopt a few dozen Palestinians. They could house some of them in one of their ubiquitous tents for all I care. My favorite group for this honor of course would be Queers for Palestine. You just have to love that organization.
Back to reality. When the IDF entered Rafah, they learned that not only did the Hamas tunnels stretch into Israel, they also did so into Egypt. They also discovered that the Egyptians accepted Gazan immigrants for $5000 per person. Pardon me for saying this, but that is a dirt-cheap price. With all of the foreign aid money floating around in that corner of the world, not in terms of billions but tens of billions, we could accommodate, easily, the entire population of Gaza and have some money left over. Banishment no longer looks so unfeasible as a practical matter.
Peloni’s Response:
The entire Palestinian Arab society has been specifically weaponized as a tool of war against the Jewish people. While this fact has been the purposeful work product of many parties, it has had its effect, and that effect has been made clear by not just the popular participation in the joyous slaughter of their Israeli neighbors on October 7, many of whom were their benefactors, but also by the vicarious pleasure of the masses of Palestinian Arabs who celebrated this event while viewing the event afterwards, and who also beat the corpses and hostages alike as they were secreted across the border to Gaza where they have been victimized, brutalized and murdered. What is more is that the popular support for what took place on October 7 has also been made clear by public polling in the aftermath of this gruesome event.
Consequently, responding to this sick reality should be recognized as being no more uneasy than dropping a payload of armaments on a warring section of Lebanon. In fact, it would be an untoward burden for Israel to pretend that they have the means of determining which members of the Palestinian society might warrant being evicted for want of a civilized nature, just as it would be an untoward burden to require Israel to only allow its bombs to injure those Lebanese who specifically supported Hezbollah’s warring barrage against it. To demonstrate this fact, recall that it was the Shin Bet who ‘cleared’ the members of Gaza who were responsible for collecting and reporting the details about the logistics in the Otef which made the conquest of the 21 kibbutzim on October 7 to be an entirely effortless task. Indeed, the Palestinian Arabs as a whole have been guided, culled, and weaponized to wreak havoc on the Jewish people, and when or if the means of removing this weaponized Pal Cleft from easy reach of their intended prey should ever become possible, it would be commensurate, reasonable, and just to see such an equitable policy as evicting the Palestinian Arabs to a measurable distance from where they now reside, be it Jordan, or some other such locality which denies them easy access to Jews.
Notably, while the Palestinian Arabs have themselves been specifically victimized by foreign oppressors to become the weapon which they personified on October 7, they proved themselves to in fact be very good students in learning and enacting their well taught blood sport against Jews both on October 7, and even since that terrible day. Note well that to this day, there has yet to be a single report of a single Palestinian Arab acting or even informing about the whereabouts leading to the rescue of a single captive Israeli, even while at least many of the hostages were being held by members of the general Palestinian Arab society, as was the case of those rescued along with Noa Argamani from their Gazan captors.
On a individual level, while ignoring what I have describe above, it may appear that separating these well trained barbarians as a whole from their intended prey would itself be an untoward act of savagery and injustice, but ignoring this wider context would itself be a crime, and the consequence of doing so could hardly be expected to be considered just. Additionally, it should be remembered as you yourself well noted that this is a defensive war. Recalling that war is intended to be the unraveling of society as a means of preserving society, separating this barbarian Cleft from their proximity to Israel as the means to prevent them acting out their intended training of brutalizing Jews, is, I would argue, both warranted and commensurate. The Palestinian Arabs have no right to enact their mayhem against their Jewish neighbors, and given their whole of society focus on doing precisely this, which goes back many generations, it remains an urgent undertaking to send them to Jordan or some other realm where they might not be capable of enacting their well bred fantasy of Jew Hunting ever again. Hence, I would conclude that it is fair, equitable and right to undertake exactly such a separation of the Palestinian Arabs as you describe as being ‘uneasy’, to the extent and degree possible, and that doing so should be better characterized as imperative and just. Notably, whereas it may not be feasible or doable to evict these people en masse, it would be entirely justified and equitable to do so to the extent possible.
Additionally, war is not the place to be concerning such niceties as concern criminal indictments, as I described above. The Palestinian Arabs have specifically been honed en-masse to inflict mayhem and murder on their Jewish neighbors, and they are so dedicated to this undertaking that they even act with little regard for non-Jews caught in the crossfire, even if it occurs that such non-Jews happen to be Arab brethren, as was seen with both the murders and hostage takings of Israeli Arabs on October 7. Hence, I would argue that, as expressed above, the undoing of society during war to preserve society would abolish the relevance of fulfilling the needs of criminal indictments.
Additionally, I would raise that while it might seem just to send these savages to the nations which promote such genocidal tendencies as expressed by the Palestinian Arabs, nations such as England and France, for easy examples, would appear to be altogether too full of their like already. Notably, sending even 25,000 of these accomplished psychopaths to these Western nations might have the effect of accentuating the altogether unacceptable tendencies of the terror supporting villains already foolishly allowed to live there. Furthermore, and more relevant I would argue, even in nations where there are no such daunting numbers of Terror Supporters, placing 25K Palestinian Arabs in a nation which already has any number of Jewish residents should be seen to be a policy which should be prevented. Indeed, the very purpose of evicting the Palestinian Arab Cleft from Israel is to prevent these Jew Haters from practicing their Jew Hatred on Jews, which would not be a sustainable objective should they be sent to nations where they might continue their Jew Hunts with reckless abandon on the native Jewish Diaspora communities contained in these nations. Instead, I would propose to send these barbarians to live among their own brethren in the already existing 22 Muslim nations. In many of these lands, their Jew Hatred would be lost among the Jew Hating masses, and in those Arab nations where Jew Hatred is less omnipresent, the local establishments might be more judicially situated to dealing with such despicable characters as those who participated in October 7 than would a liberal Western democracy in which such savagery would only elicit a response after their savagery had its intended effect, ie more dead Jews.
@Edgar G.
These are the lines I skipped after
The above comes before the part I posted:
THIS IS WHAT HE WAS PROUD OF whether it was true or whether it was his patriotic fantasy.
He was NOT proud of British antisemitism
Anyway, we should stop talking about this because it’s like we are speaking different languages.
Thanks for the great reminiscences.
READER-
You’re talking your usual nonsense. Wedgewood was a Labour cum Liberal MP, pro Jew because he opposed the White Paper as many did.
Otherwise “proud of the British” antisemitism. Recall the UK was very anti-S both pre and post WW2. Wedgewood was one of the “benevolent” Britishers, and in fact did not detest Jews, so you are right there. He was just very innocuous and basically a figurehead, made no waves.
I was a schoolboy through that period and I KNOW how Jews lived, Well within themselves, subject to the host country’s laws, VERY careful to avoid confrontation, with 1800 years of baseless terror behind them. The vast majority one, at most 2 generations from the shtetl. Self ruled by our own Council which represented us with the Goyim when problems arose. My beloved father was a Council Member.
I myself was 1st gen from Shtetl, as were most of my school population. Our school also had some Kindertransport kids smuggled into Eire.
And I was reading by 2 years old, and as we ALL WERE, very interested in the politics of Europe then. The main interest in our house was the 9 p.m News read by Alvar Liddell. We never once missed it.
We also were bombed out of our house, German bombs falling about 150 ft away destroying 2 Jewish homes, and partly destroying ours.
There were also Dublin Jews who had gone to fight in the Spanish Civil War against Franco. I knew a few. And in Palestine, The Hagana, Irgun and Lehi. Remember Dov Gruner????
Antisemitism in England continued even after the War, because I was in England then and was a part of defending against it. When we went out, we wore knuckledusters……………
And Much More…………
I think this conversation is ended -don’t you agree???
@Adam D
What Israel really needs is to go back to the old Zionism, i.e., to quote JFK: “Ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country.”
This needs a whole different approach – not just a party.
This time there is REALLY no place to go.
@Edgar G.
Wedgwood said what he said because he cared, and, obviously, he was incredibly proud of the way the British, allegedly, were.
I posted this quote as “a lesson in psychology” to show how that ingrained Jewish behavior is perceived and how Jews refuse to acknowledge this fact (just like you do with your explanations for it).
This was a main Zionist idea to create “a new Jew”, and it seemed to work for a while until it didn’t, when Israel slipped into the “old attitude of supplication, of living on your knees”, looking for approval and help from a feudal lord, and, pretty much, hasn’t won any war since 1967.
Because if we don’t, we will lose the Jewish State, and if this happens, we will not go back to being simply abused and held down, there will be a worldwide Holocaust.
If someone thinks it is God’s will, they are free to do nothing, just like last time, and to end up the same as they did last time.
BTW, how do they know so well what is it that God really wills?
READER-
Wedgewood expected Jews to behave like Britishers. They behaved like Jews, Downtrodden and persecuted for 2000 years. even right inder Wedgewood’s nose.
You can’t get away from his “That no other nation has ever learned”.
And many or most of thr British In Prewar Palestine were ex Black and Tans, thus explaining their cruelty and indifference to Arabs attacking Jews whilst they were standing by as spectaors……A big point.
And, contrary to Wedgewood, there WERE Jews in Palestine, the Hagana LEHI and Irgun, who fought them.
@fquigley. Israel does need a political party that supports resettlement of the Arab population of Gaza, and perhaps also Judea-Samaria, and that can attract secular, non-religiously observant Jews. At present, the only parties that support this solution to the “Palestinian question.” are led by Orthodox, strictly observant Jews, and consequently have voter appeal only to this approximately 25-33% of Israel’s Jewish population. A party with a program for resettlement that can appeal to the two-thirds to three-fourths of the Israeli Jewish population that are not religiously observant is there badly needed to win popular support for this “option.”
Dr. Martin Sherman, some years back, did found such a party. But unfortunately, some of the party’s candidates for the Knesset defected, once they were elected, to Shimon Peres treasonous “trading land for peace” Labor Party government in retrurn for bribes, such as the free use of government-owned cars. Selling their souls for “a mess of pattage,” But i do thing that an attempt should be made to reform a secular, democratically-oriented political party that will campaign for the resettlement of the Pallestinians in Gaza. What do you, and any and all other readers of Israpundit, think about this suggestion?
As I pointed out before, the attitude of the present-day Trotskyist organizations make it impossible for this proposed new party to claim to be Trotskyist.
@fquigley. Felix, I haven’t kept a record of my previous requests to you, so I can’t give you the dates of my previous requests that you address the anti-Israel line adopted by all contemporary Trotskyist organizations. My requests to you for an explanation were not about Trotsky’s own views, at least not primarily, but concerning the anti-Israel views of the present-day Trotskyist movement. The jist of my question is: How can you say that Israel should adopt a Trotskyist solution to its problems when the presnt-day Trotskyist movement, even the Trotskyist movement inside Israel, is anti-Israel and supportive of the Palestinian terrorists?
Adam…please show me where you have repeatedly asked.
Just once then.
Or admit you are dreaming
Adam did you read what I wrote in answer to your claim
I have repeatedly asked you to account for this, and to reconcile this reality with your repeated claims that Israel would benefit from a Trotskyist leadership.
@Edgar G.
Wedgwood wasn’t saying that Jews must become militant (I skipped several sentences about the British breaking rules, etc. because the quote was getting too long).
He was saying that Jews should learn to stand for their convictions, “he was disturbed by Jewish passivity”.
I think that he meant that this kind of behavior causes disdain and disgust but he was not using these words because he understood the cause of it.
As a result, Jews are not taken seriously, they are treated the way a feudal lord would treat a serf.
I think it is not only extremely humiliating, it really hurts our cause.
Unfortunately, in the last 30 years or so, Israel subconsciously turned itself into a giant ghetto and this is why everyone tells it what to do, when to do it, how to do it, not to do it, etc., and when the feudal lord doesn’t like something, he just yanks on the leash, and threatens not to give any more treats.
If, as Wedgewood has said “no other nation has ever learned”, why should we expect the Jews, abused and held down and massacred for many benturies to suddenly become militant, espeically when all their leaders the Rabonim preach that it’s G-D’s will and trust in HIM.
Wedgewood gives the perfect reason as to why Jews behave as they did, and then in the next breath is condemning them for behaving that way and expecting the mouse to suddenly turn into the lion, ,a tiny, miniscule of a world-scattered people which cannot in any way unite..
Shellim is not Torah, I haven’t read past the first horrible section, and never intend to ever read more. He scatters facts like a shotgun, in and out of sequence and anachronistically very difficult to find continuity.
That’s beside the point he’s gathered loads of facts , over whelmingly so.
None of them make a damned bit of difference for today or the future.
We should know by now that for Jews life is so fluid that anything can happen any time anywhere.
I stand by what I wrote because it’s the truth. You tacitly accept it but reject it’s meaning and effect.
It certainly is NOT known that “Silence is consent”…except by the ignorant who don’t understand Law and make up their own. Like the Wild West.
For what it’s worth to explain to you, “Silence is the absence of Noise”-in this case vocalisation.
Have you never heard the legal phrase that the prosecution OR the defence says “We will reserve our defence, (or witness) for later.””
So be it, I won’t argue the point.
@Edgar G.
Your argument is exactly the problem.
It is precisely because Jews fail to notice and to understand how other people think they get into horrible situations.
You cannot deny that Jews have been supporting their enemies’ narrative by adopting the enemies’ vocabulary and not insisting on the truthful recounting of events (such as given, for example, in the Joseph Shellim’s book and in a few others).
It is well known that silence is consent.
I was paging through Lone Wolf: A Biography of Vladimir (Ze’ ev) Jabotinsky by Shmuel Katz.
The same damn stuff, except on a different level – nothing has changed.
Here is a lesson in psychology from “Col. Josiah Wedgwood, British statesman, Labor MP and minister. Doughty fighter for Jewish people. Admirer of Jabo.”
READER-
I doubt if it causes doubt (Not intended pun), Most if not all ignore it. Many terms once acceptable are now regarded as slurs. For instance “nigger” which is just the American way of spelling the original Spanish “negre” which merely means “black”. The term “Black” is acceptable but the other is not.
The Spaniards were the first Europeans to bring blacks to slavery, a not uncommon practice of most if not all races against captured enemies black or white. Since most of the blacks sold into slavery by their own black enemies, were bought by Southern Plantation owners,, the Southern drawling accent automatically translated the pronunciation as above.
The term “Jew” was regarded as a slur, giving rise to the meaning of “Cheat” “miser”, “robber” etc. Now it merely denotes the adherent to a certain well known Faith.
I doubt VERY much if the “settlers” give it a second thought.
After all, they deliberately moved into YESH uncoerced, to have better and less cramped lives. All housing there which comes on the market or is built, has a long waiting list of purchasers eager to become “settlers”………….
Virtually ALL Jews in Israel and many abroad are well aware of the BALFOUR LETTER, San Remo Conference and the British Mandate. Others curious take 10 seconmds to look it up on the internet.
If you had I would remember.
So you are quite mad and imagining things. Or else very abusive
Please if you don’t mind give me details of you “repeatedly asking”
I wrote and write all the time of how the ruling capitalist class put Trotsky into the grave and a whole leadership of a nascent group in the 1930 to 1940 period … The Moscow Trials, the Spanish Civil War where Mercader was recruited and trained Moscow
YOU ALWAYS IGNORE ME WHICH IS ALSO IGNORING A CRIME
A political movement smashed some 80 years ago by your people
So I reject your hate campaigning against me
@Edgar G.
Theoretically, you are right but words change meaning over time.
Now this proud term denotes illegality and Jewish doubt in the ownership of the Jewish land.
The term “settler” used for Jews who establish villages many of which, like all other beginnings of cities, have grown to populations of 30-40-50,000. They are still referred to as “settlers’……………..
“Strange” you say?? Not for Jews who have that 3500 years line of descent from the earliest times.
The TORAH states unequivocally
“GO FORTH AND SETTLE THE LAND WHICH….” (paraphrased; Devorim.)
From this, comes especially for Jews, the useage of :settler”.
It should be worn proudly seeing from whence it came.
“settler” is another term that must be abandoned.
Arabs never call themselves “settlers” even when they steal Jewish land, this is because they are convinced it is Arab land but the Jews are not paying any attention and keep denigrating themselves and their land and helping their enemies.
Edgar
Good point.
Felix, you have consistently refused to deal with or even acknowledge the fact that entire leadership of all of the Trotskyist organizations are militantly (no pun intended) hostile to Israel and supporters of the Palestinian terrorist organizations. I have repeatedly asked you to account for this, and to reconcile this reality with your repeated claims that Israel would benefit from a Trotskyist leadership. I am now putting this question to you once again. Thank you for your attention,
There is additional extremely worrisome stuff in the JNS interview with the female Jewish “settler” in Judea-Samaria who monitors Palestinian social media. She says she is constantly being visited and interrogated by Israeli police and security service people. Their concern is not to learn about the Palestinian terrorist activities that she monitors, but to accuse her of “incitement” against the Palestinians and encouraging Jewish settlers to carry out attacks on Palestinians. These Israeli police show absolutely no interest in the information she has collected about “unreported” Palestinian terrorist activity in Judea-Samaria, she claims.
https://www.jns.org/israeli-mother-exposes-arab-incitement-criminality-authorities-miss/
It is very important that we all read this article from JNS, An interview with a Judea-Samaria woman ‘settler” who monitors Palestinian social media sites, especoally Telegram sites. She says nearly all of them report Palestinian terrorist activity that goes unreported in the Israeli press, and that the Israeli security services makes no effort to crack down on. Including preparation for another Oct. 7. The stealing of Israeli jeeps from the Israeli army similar to those ridden by the terrorists on October. Constant smuggling in of arms from Jordan.
Also, constant incitement and Israel and Jews, and antisemitic propaganda. Close monitoring of Israeli military forces whenever they enter a Palestinian village. Photographs of every Israeli soldier who enters a village for identification puposes.
There are almost no Palestinian social media sites devoted to peaceful purposes of the kind that people of non-Palestinian influencers usually post on social media, such as tips for enhancing women’s beauty, sale of all sorts of products, etc. She says that when one person tried to sell something on a Palestinian media site, she was told that that was an “inappropriate use of the site by the site manager.
She concludes that there is no such thing as and “innocent” Palestinian who not a promoter of terrorism or a terror “activist.”
@Reader
I rescued your comment. Thank you for making me aware of the situation.
Shocking! Treasonous lie by former Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon. A former defense minister of Israel repeating the blood libels spread by Israel’s enemies! Only in Israel. With even a former defense minister making common cause with the enemy, our outlookdoesn’t look btight.
Former Defense Minister: ‘War crimes are being committed here’
Moshe Ya’alon continues to criticize Israel’s actions in Gaza, warning of potential legal consequences at The Hague. He accuses Israel of ethnic cleansing.
Israel National News
Moshe Yaalon
Former Chief of General Staff and Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon maintains his criticism of the IDF’s operations in Gaza, asserting that soldiers face risks of prosecution at the International Criminal Court (ICC).
In an interview, Ya’alon reiterated his claim that “Israel is committing ethnic cleansing in Gaza.” He argued that Israeli soldiers are in a precarious situation that could lead to international legal action.
Reaction from political figures was swift, with criticism from Likud MK Amit Halevi and National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir, who defended the IDF’s operations as humanitarian and just.
They argue that Israel operates under higher ethical standards than required by international law, and that Ya’alon’s statements harm Israel’s international reputation.
Related articles:
Ya’alon: Infiltrators a ‘Social Time Bomb’
Ya’alon: No Negotiations with this PA Leadership
Ya’alon: G-d Forbid We Apologize to Turkey
Communications Minister Dr. Shlomo Karhi condemned Ya’alon’s remarks as an affront to the IDF’s moral standing and called for unprecedented measures against him.
Cabinet member and former ISA head Avi Dichter urged Ya’alon to apologize, highlighting that the IDF attempts to prevent civilian harm.
Please, retrieve my comment.
Only once – I posted it twice, it didn’t work.
@fquigley
Felix,
There is a book written by Ronald Smelser, Edward J. Davies II The Myth Of The Eastern Front: The Nazi-Soviet War In American Popular Culture
Most Americans like Germany and hate Russia – here is a quote from the book:
Basically, the Soviet Army is viewed by many people as an Asiatic horde which attacked Germany in 1945 and the heroic Germans prevented it from taking over the Western Europe (I saw this kind of a comment on YouTube).
Someone who is totally ignorant about the war might think that the Germans were peacefully staying at home, drinking beer, singing their beautiful Lieder, and celebrating Oktoberfests when suddenly a horde of barbarians rushes in and starts raping everyone without looking.
@fquigley
Felix,
There is a book written by Ronald Smelser, Edward J. Davies II The Myth Of The Eastern Front: The Nazi-Soviet War In American Popular Culture
Most Americans (and they say 40% of Americans have German roots) like Germany and hate Russia – here is a quote from the book:
Basically, the Soviet Army is viewed by many people as an Asiatic horde which attacked Germany in 1945 and the heroic Germans prevented it from taking over the Western Europe (I saw this kind of a comment on YouTube).
Someone who is totally ignorant about the war might think that the Germans were peacefully staying at home, drinking beer, singing their beautiful Lieder, and celebrating Oktoberfests when suddenly the horde of barbarians rushes in and starts raping everyone without looking.
Michael
Your geographical exposee on chit chat was masterly and thanks. They are back to the butchery. Re Isis.
Raphael
I strongly disagree with you because Israeli leadership is not capable of doing one thing to save Jews. Although Israeli people are indeed very capable if they are educated in Trotskyism and the meaning of Trotskyist leadership. Which they are not.
Since Spain and Ireland ET AL are Christian they must take em, and no bribes mind. Bribes are a no! no!
As penance for hating Jews…
“According to Der Spiegle, regarding the aftermath of World War II:
“But the people fleeing the Red Army were unaware that the Allies had already agreed with the Polish government-in-exile to hand over large parts of eastern Germany to Poland and resettle the Germans who were living there.
“All those who didn’t manage to escape in time fell victim to the frenzied expulsions that were carried out until July 1945. The organized resettlement of Germans and ethnic Germans from Germany’s former eastern areas and the Sudetenland began in January 1946. In all, some 14 million Germans lost their homes.”. ”
Who were they fleeing from? Answer from the Red Army.
That is the army that had just beaten the Nazis single handedly.
You wouldn’t suspect that from Block.
If I was editor and read that… straight to rubbish bin.
And Block would be blocked!
Peloni does not get that and so a chance to right the errant ship is lost.
Plus
Why are we discussing this? There’s not the remotest chance of this happening even though it is urgent urgent urgent to do so.
My own view do it now and insist placed like Ireland and Spain take em. As a penance.
But to do that understanding you want a Trotsky…not wimps!
@peloni
A great article but, PLEASE, QUIT USING THE WORD “PALESTINIAN”, or, at least, put it in quotation marks.
Palestine and Palestinian Arab people who have special rights to a state in the Land of Israel do not exist, and every time we use their terms, we state that we confirm their nonexistent rights.
It is pleasant to fantasize about unsolvable problems, so here are some thoughts:
The Arabs didn’t mind aliyah until the British got involved and created the Arab National Movement as a major way to kick the Jews out of then Palestine.
The British wanted an all-Arab ME under their complete control.
There were instances when the Arabs took the idea of the Arab National Movement too seriously and decided to also fight against the British – they were very quickly and harshly made to realize that this is a no-no.
The British limited aliyah and brought in Arabs because of the “need for workers”, and during WWII aided the Nazis in killing Jews by keeping the European Jews out of then Palestine by the use of force (even deadly force) when necessary.
Israel cannot expel Arabs by force in millions, it is physically impossible, however, it can complete the unfinished population exchange, when Israel accepted nearly a million Jews expelled from Arab countries
This means a million Arabs plus their descendants will have to move to the countries which expelled the Jews.
They can/should be given financial incentives to do so.
Another way is to extend sovereignty over Gaza and Judea and Samaria without giving the local Arabs citizenship rights while preventing them from terrorizing the Jewish population – this might make them wish to move to the civilized Europe or to other Arab countries.
Any of the above will be accompanied by the UN, the US, the EU, et al. writhing in hysterics over “the tragic fate of the “Palestinian people”” which means that Israel must be made impervious to various types of political blackmail and tasty looking political mouse traps which is, probably, the hardest thing of all.
Deportation, expulsion, or banishment only requires two things: 1) political will and 2) a place to deport people to. Both can be daunting obstacles.
The Political will for deportation may be impeded by International outcry, “allies” who don’t want to see it happen for their own nefarious reasons, or by domestic opposition. There is also the possibility that deportation could set a very problematic precedent.
Assuming the path to political will can be found, the second problem of where to send “the banished” may be the greater problem. You cannot just walk the “personas non gratias” to the border and give them a swift boot across the line, without the acquiescence of your neighbor. In the case of the “Gazans/balestinians”, it seems that nobody wants them, and with good reason. They are indeed wild asses of men (and women).
So what do we do? Construct huge prisons, and warehouse a couple of million people? Some of them, you will indeed have to imprison, but most will have to remain free. There is, however, another answer.
Israel, itself, is to blame for the problem, by having simply walked away from Gaza in 2005, with seemingly no concern for what might happen after they were gone. Foolishness! As we now know Hamas took over the strip, enslaved the people, and UNWRA took over the schools, training and indoctrinating the next two or three generations of murders and terrorists. This illustrates a very important principle. You cannot walk away from any unsolved problem and expect it not to come back to bite you.
Therefore, since Israel now has a second chance to resurrect Gaza, they need to do it right. Let all Gazans leave, who want to leave, provided that they can get visas to countries that will accept them. Give them “incentives” to leave, if that will help. Imprison those who are dangerous and violent, particularly those with ties to Hamas, PIJ, etc. As for the rest, resettle them in a way that they can be easily policed, but allow them to live as normal a life as possible. Put them to work building new homes, businesses, and infrastructure (all above ground), financed by the outside world, but with no strings attached. That takes care of the short-term issues.
What then remains? The entire people must be re-created in a new image, particularly the youth. Israel cannot allow anything to be taught in schools that is not ethical. Similarly, whatever goes over the airwaves in Gaza must be positive in nature. Other incentives to become civilized must be investigated and tried. As the Americans used to say during the Viet Nam war, “we must win the hearts and minds of the people”. Another saying is that “To destroy your enemy, you must make him your friend.” The wisdom of this tactic has been demonstrated many times. This will be a long, hard job, with setbacks, but it must be done, if Gaza, Judea, and Samaria are to be permanently pacified.
PELONI-
I don’t think that The Jews were banished from Jerusalem or Judaea after the War of 70CE. They were mainly sold to slavery, although many Jews remained still, in Judaea. The fierce Bar Kocheba War-which caused the shrinkage- of the Empire- could not have occurred without a strong Jewish Population.
(Real name “Ben Koseba”, idealised into Bar Kocheba by the strong belief of some Sages in the Moshiach-R.)
Many had already been bought out of slavery, it being strong Mitzvah tradition.
Before the War in 70 CE, Jws were estimated to total a whopping 10% of the total Roman Empire Population.
It was after the Bar Kocheba War War that Roman banishment was introduced.
(It was also during this War that probably Christians were first noticed, as a found shard with Bar Kovheba’s instructions to a lieutenant indicate)
My opinion; backed by historical accounts.
@Adam
I rescued your two comments. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Aside from refusing to live in peace with Israelis, the Arabs of Gaza, Judea and Samaria are occupiers of land that still belongs to Israel. Whatever agreements Arabs have signed, since 1948, they have never fulfilled their obligations under them. Israel tried trading land, but never got the peace it was promised. At this point, having tried for 80 years to live in peace with people who refuse to, Israel is well within its rights to say, “We’ve sacrificed more for peace to these people than any other country ever would have, and now we’re done. Gaza, Judea and Samaria were part of the Mandate for Palestine. Egypt and Jordan illegally invaded and occupied them, in 1948. We got them back in a defensive war, in 1967, and have lived under attack by this barbarous population ever since. As it’s clear we can’t get peace, even by giving up land to these people, we are no longer willing to engage in such pointless trades. We assert our claim to Gaza, Judea, Samaria and all of Jerusalem. Let’s talk about where they should go now.”
Peloni, please restore my post answering Frank Adams claim that the Zionists “infiltrated” Palestine by dishonest “methods: to this space. I just posted it, but it didn’t print.
Also, please locate and restore to the comment section below the column about the civil war the civil war in Syria my two comments about that column, which never were printed in the column space and immediately disappeared without a trace after I posted them. This seems to be happening more and more to my comments. Please help!
@Frankadam, the Zionists did not use dishonest “methods” to “infilitrate” Palestine, as you allege. Beginning in about 1882, Jewish organizations that were openly committed to the rebirth of the Jewish “nation” openly purchased land for Jewish settlement, either from Arab landowners or directly from the Turkish government, which claimed ownership of most land in Palestine. They never tried to disguise their desire to restore the Jewish nation in Palestine, which Jews had regarded as their true homeland for more than three milennia.The Arabs and the Turkish overlords knew exact;y what the Zionists wanted, and the Zionists never tried to hide this from them.
The Arabs never madeany attempt to imitate Zionist “methods,” but instead opposed Zionismwith their own “mehtod,” which was violent assaults on Jewish settlements and Jews, walking on public roads. They killed as many Jews as they could. This pattern of “resitance” to Jewish settlement in, and immigration to, Palestine began as early as the nineteenth century.
Agreed, the solution is to package Palestinian refuges in large sacks – each holding about 25,000 of them. And airdrop them in the UN countries who supported them.
In my opinion,the Expulsion of the entire population of Gaza and their resettlement elsewhere would be cpm[lrtrly justified from am ethical point of view. Resettlement in countries where no war is going on would enable the Gazans to lead peaceful lives, find gainful employment, etc., None of them have peaceful and secure lives at present, or for that matter for the past two generations at least. Several Latin American countries that already have substantial Arab populations, and are more or less peaceful at least in comparison with Gaz, would probably make the best “fit” for them. The vast areasof Syria that have been rendered uninhabitable by the eleven years of war there is another possible area for resettlemnt. Also, the south coast of Turkey, wherte Arabic, not Turkish, is or at least was until recently the spoken language of the local population, would also be an excellent area for resettlement. Obtaining the cooperation of the governments of any of these areas would of course, be a major obstacle to the resettlemnt of the Gazans.
Just be a little careful as the Arabs have been competent pupils of Zionist methods – eg facts on the ground in Area ‘C’. They may hate Israel BUT they admire how Zionist settlement infiltrated the system and the land by “right of return.”
Otherwise offer some carrots: the PA/ PLO brag they have the most educated Arab population in the Arab League so enough Arab countries could use Palestine emigres especially as there is a constant dribble of reports of discontented young adults who can not find jobs and so can not marry. Frustration in three variants.
For schemes Morocco needs Arab settlers in hoc to it, to hold off the Polisario and keep Western Sahara. Offer passage and for aid offer US Army engineers with bulldozers and excavators to expand the roads, level building sites and carve water catchment terraces in the wadi bottoms and hillsides.
Along the Saudi Red Sea Coast there are several places where wadis cut the escarpment and create alluvial fans at sea level. Each of these could be developed with the up stream systems on the plateau above to farm out-of-season fruits, flowers and exotic vegetables for air lift sale in Europe and elsewhere, besides holiday beach hotels for tourism.
There are similar opportunities to the above on the Libyan and Egyptian coasts. Equally there is plenty of sun and wind power to desalinate drinking water.
Interesting point about Egypt : it is the biggest source of intra-Arab emigration which is why a third of Gazans are surnamed Masri/Misri and many of the rest are Mughrabi/Maghebi, Yamani and Hijazi families so their right of return is to: Egypt, Morocco, Western Saudi and Yemen….