T. Belman. Not only do they undermine our religious policies at the Kotel, they also undermine our political choices by supporting J-Street and Obama who are in truth, not pro-Israel.
Obviously their “support” for Israel is contingent on Israel embracing their progressive agenda. But why should Israel listen. Their numbers are dwindling and their members give more money to the Democratic Party or other non Jewish charities, than Jewish ones, by far.
Heads of American and Israeli Reform and Conservative movements send harsh letter to PM Benjamin Netanyahu, criticizing delay of plan to establish mixed-gender prayer space at Western Wall • Current situation “unjust and unsettling,” letter says.
The president of America’s Union for Reform Judaism blasted the Israeli government on Monday for delaying a plan to give liberal Jews a special space to pray at the Western Wall, and vowed to escalate his movement’s struggle with public demonstrations and legal action.
“For this government agreement to collapse would be the signal of a real rupture of the North American-Israel relationship,” said Rabbi Rick Jacobs.
The liberal Reform Movement is the largest American stream of Judaism, claiming to represent 1.5 million people. Reform congregations hold mixed-gender prayers, employ female rabbis and have members who drive to synagogue on the Sabbath — all customs that go against Orthodox tradition.
Reform synagogues are common in the United States but the movement is marginal in Israel.
In January, Israel announced it would enlarge and officially recognize a special mixed-gender prayer area at the Western Wall in Jerusalem. Leaders of liberal streams of Judaism in Israel and the U.S. negotiated with Israeli authorities for three years to obtain the agreement.
Yet the plan to expand the egalitarian space has stalled since. The Western Wall is managed by an ultra-Orthodox rabbi who opposes Reform customs at the holy site.
In the meantime, Reform Jews have increased their prayer services near the traditional prayer plaza of the Western Wall, over the objections of the site’s rabbi. Hecklers have attacked activists as they prayed. Last week, an ultra-Orthodox man tore apart a prayer book belonging to an activist with Women of the Wall, a group demanding gender equality at the site.
In a letter sent to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Monday, Jacobs and leaders of American and Israeli Reform and Conservative movements said the current situation was “unjust and insulting.” They announced they would file suit in Israel’s Supreme Court and demand a third, egalitarian prayer space at the traditional Western Wall plaza, where today men and women pray separately. This space would be in the central prayer site, whereas the egalitarian space outlined in January would be a short distance away.
In the letter, Conservative and Reform Jewish leaders also expressed “great concern” about “unprecedented incitement presented by cabinet and Knesset members towards Conservative and Reform Jews.” They called on Netanyahu “to work to forcefully and quickly stop such incitement.”
@ dove:
Then why are you wasting your precious time on the pundit?
@ yamit82:
lol. Didn’t realize that you require me to make a case. I could…but I would charge big bucks to do so as my time is precious. 😉
dove Said:
You have said it but not made a case for your position as the Haredi being more dangerous to Israel and the Jewish people than un-Jews (the reform).
ArnoldHarris Said:
I love Felix, the perfect straight man.
dove Said:
I always have been talking. I would have had more respect for Weisel if had not ” sucked up” very people who imprisoned him.
@ yamit82:
Your misunderstanding my point on Reform. I didn’t say they were welcoming – they actually aren’t very welcoming if one is an observant Jew. My point is….even so….if I want to waltz in there and be an observant kosher Jew I can! I know people in Reform who won’t eat at any of their gatherings because it is not authentic kosher. They do have their rabble rousers. Recently in my city a Reform synagogue hosted an interdenomination event. Of course they complained because they had to accomodate the orthodox and make sure everything was kosher and provide a room for them to daven. But they did it. I still maintain that the Haredi are more dangerous to Israel and the Jewish people as a whole.
yamit82 Said:
I am always wonderstruck at how easily it is to take advantage of “liberal intellectuals”. So subceptual to flattery.
@ honeybee:
@ woolymammoth:
Mourning Doves will fly off at the sight of a hawk, but Ring necked dove fight aggressively to protect themselves and their young . I want the Jewish people to be Ring necked doves.
@ dove:
xoxoxoxoxoxoxxoxoxo
Yamit and Honeybee,
I read Israpundit and its comments daily, and occasionally add my own. But first and foremost, I read comments from you two. The combination of erudition from the one is sweetened by the Texas-bred humor of the other.
For whatever it’s worth, I also avidly read Felix Quigley, and I ignore American non-Jews who try to figure us out and endlessly lecture us.
Arnold Harris, Outspeaker
People keep looking for differences in Jews instead of trying to find what is similar and trying to embrace that. Trying to make sure we divide this small people.
Some on all sides make sure they take great effort to point out the differences with great gusto to maximize the potential divide.
@ dove:
Dennis Prager
Give back the Nobel Peace Prize: A letter to Elie Wiesel
Haaaaa he didn’t give it bsck kept the prize and money then lost it all to Bernie Madoff …. Ironic 🙂
dove Said:
“Elie Wiesel Was Tight w/ The Enemies of Israel & The Jews, Wouldn’t Rebuke Them
I have mixed feelings about Elie Wiesel, the Holocaust survivor and author who died Saturday. While he was pro-Israel when it was convenient (especially when he needed money), he mostly used his soapbox and forum to speak out for Muslims but not their victims.”
Elie Wiesel: The Left’s Preferred Holocaust Survivor Who Spoke Out For Muslims
@ woolymammoth:
Thanks you are most kind
dove Said:
The relevance of the wall is that it was the closest remnant of the Temple Mt. where for most of our history since the destruction of the Temple and exile, where Jews were allowed to pray….. For exhilic Jews and natives it became a poor substitute for our destroyed temple. Since june of 67 this is no longer the case…..
I only see Jewish hypocrisy. Jews, victorious in six wars against the Arabs, keep praying at the Wailing Wall. Actually, they do not. It is the Arabs who pray nearby, while the victorious Jews wail at the wall. Jews even welcome tourists to see how assiduously they wail. Tourists are banned from Mecca and from the inside of the Vatican, and they are severely restricted from Al Aqsa, but the Jews bring busloads of tourists to watch them wail.
The Western Wall is a Jewish hall of shame. The shame is that for the last forty nine years we have failed to tear down that wall. Jerusalem is ours. The Temple Mount is ours. Jews don’t have to wail at the remains anymore. Forty nine years is time enough to build the real thing, the Temple.
We have won. Get used to it. Israeli victories might not usher in the messianic era, but so long as Jews possess Jerusalem, we should rejoice rather than weep.
The Jews keep praying, “Next year, in Jerusalem!” instead of taking the next flight to Israel. We’re the happiest Jews to have lived for the last two thousand years because we securely possess our country, but blind Jewish leaders want to share it with our Arab enemies. We conquered the Temple Mount, a place of immeasurable sanctity and immeasurable national importance, and still we wail at the remnants below.
The Israeli government bans Jews from praying at the Temple Mount lest the Arabs be offended. The government misses that we have already offended the Arabs by establishing a Jewish state in their midst and by winning every one of the wars they started. The Arabs fought us over statehood and over our borders; okay, let them fight us over the Temple Mount. In fact, they won’t. Muslims worldwide did not riot when the Jews took over Jerusalem. The Muslims expected the victorious Jews to assert their religious and nationalist jurisdiction over the most important place in the world, and shook their heads in disbelief when Moshe Dayan returned to them the Temple Mount.
Assimilated Israeli leaders resent having to pose as barbaric religious Jews before their Gentile friends. The Third Temple would embarrass the likes of BB; it’s hard to talk peace and modernity in Washington while back in your capital a high priest in a golden breastplate burns sheep in a sin offering.
Rabbinical leaders don’t want the Temple either. For all the superficial rites they observe, they are atheists. They pushed G-d from real life into a transcendent realm. Their G-d is concerned with driving on Sabbath rather than the Temple or the Land of Israel. The rabbis fear government, not G-d, and concur with the political establishment about Arab control of the Temple Mount, disengagement from Judea, and the Arab presence in Israel. The rabbis ban Jews from the Temple Mount for fear of desecrating the remains of the Holy of Holies while the Arabs build lavatories there. Just like Pompeius, the high priest of the Third Temple will see the Holy of Holies as an empty room.
@ dove:
Never intended to personalize my opinions but to speak to differences and to reply to your “Who is the bigger mennace to Israel? Reform or Haredi? I still think it’s Haredi. Reform needs to recognize that and be better supporters of Israel as a Jewish State.”
No doubt reform churchesare more welcoming. I’m sure all chrisitian churches would as well. 😛 My response to your statements is that there is no possible way one can consider the reform movement as being “Jewish”
Orthodox Jews were the biggest reformers in their time: they substituted rabbinical Judaism for the Temple-based, land-centered religion of the time.
There is, however, a critical difference between the Orthodox and reform approaches, namely honesty. Orthodox rabbis honestly tried to save Judaism in the absence of the Temple.
Reform Judaism, on the other hand, doesn’t seek to reform anything. It is a typical leftist movement which uses the sophistic device of redefining terms. Reformism dresses the atheism of its flock in arbitrarily redefined Jewish terms rather than seeks the current meaning of the ancient terms.
Such a reevaluation of meaning is unnecessary, as human morality has not changed a bit throughout history.
Judaism is not consensual: even foreigners, or any non-Jews who live in the Land of Israel, must adhere to Jewish law on pain of death. Reformism stresses the contrary feature: tolerance, the right of every individual to live as he pleases not only in the private sphere, but in the public one as well.
Judaism is isolationist: Jews are “the people who dwell alone.” Nehemiah ordered the Jews to send away their foreign wives, breaking up every family in Jerusalem. We accepted converts in numbers small enough that we could assimilate them; Nehemiah saw that the foreign wives were too numerous for safe assimilation and ordered them all evicted. And we accept converts on our terms: one does not become a Jew by thinking that he is one. Judaism believes in being the only truth around, in Jews being the only chosen people. In the framework of Judaism, any other faith is not just inferior, but abominable. We don’t hate other peoples, but we despise their faiths. And in our prayers we thank G-d for not having been born into a foreign religion. What could be farther from the reformist paradigm of interfaith, intermarriage, cultural interchange, and eventually assimilation?
Reformism has no firm values or doctrines, only the lack thereof. In reform “Judaism,” there is not a single value or doctrine which is specifically Jewish. Reformists explicitly reject Jewish uniqueness by their leftist outreach to gentiles. They talk of things too universalist even for Lenin, of repairing the entire world and of social justice for all. Never mind that social justice for some means unjustly robbing others, and repairing the world in Africa means neglecting the Jews in Shderot.
Reformism, a universalist religion, embraced universalist values—but the most universal values are those with the lowest common denominator. Reformism reaches out to everyone by refusing to reject anyone. Reformism embraces moral abominations in nihilist fashion, including lesbian “rabbis” and gay marriages. They make the silly argument that every person is made in G-d’s image. But that applies to murderers, thieves, and other criminals—should we tolerate and actually welcome them as well? In the end, G-d will ask each of us, “What have you done to My image?”
In Reform Judaism, there is no reason to remain Jewish; a Jew is no different from others. In fact, reformists explicitly promote interfaith dialogue meant to prove that Jews are similar to others. What possible reason is there to be Jewish, to bear specifically Jewish children? One reason is racism: my ancestors were so good that I don’t want to mix with you, who are the offspring of other ancestors; that sounds abominable. Two, cultural chauvinism: Jewish culture is superior to others or at least valuably unique, so I want to continue it; never mind that Jews embraced the culture of the nations among whom we lived, and there is little in common between the Sephardi and Ashkenazi cultures. Three, because G-d chose us to be his people, and both I and my children must obey his will; this is the only moral reason. It has, however, a problem: reformists reject the absolute authenticity of the Torah, imagine some commandments to be obsolete, and therefore can never be sure that Jewish chosen-ness is both authentic and currently valid.
It is conceivable that Orthodox Judaism will one day encounter true efforts at reforming it, similarly to the reform movements in another religion. The criterion of honesty would be whether that reform leader is a Jewish fundamentalist. The reform must signify a return to Jewish fundamentals, to the core Judaism which can only be practiced in the Land in Israel, a country of our own with no foreigners or outright Jewish traitors. With the Temple and offerings, and the basic conformity of the entire population—forced if necessary—to the laws of Judaism.
Social theories evolve, but it’s different with religions. As they grow old, they accumulate accretions which must be shaken off once in a while. In every other field, new is better. In religion, the old is the only good. And so we await a true reformer: a fundamentalist Jew.
@ dove:
Ax to grind, no, not for Doves. A saw a couple of Morning Doves late to wake up, getting chased off by a hawk today in the PM. This Dove is the denser.
Yamit is learned, honest and has sacrificed more for Israel than 99.9999% of the the AIPAC/J Street sacks of bile together.
@ honeybee:
I would expect that from you. Every once in awhile both you and Yamit like to hit below the belt – it use to be more often. Notice alot of people don’t comment here anymore?
I recently read a comment of yours after the death of Elie Wiesel saying that you always thought he made money off the holocaust. Ouch!
WoW – do you personally know anyone who has dedicated their life to education of the holocaust and anti-semitism? I do. I know a few. It’s often a very thankless job and difficult at times to keep yourself from going under – having to always be so close to the darker elements of Jewish reality.
I was once warned by an educator to be careful – as one can become consumed. It’s dispairing to see the vast number of people – including Jews who become complacent – which makes it even more necessary to have these educators. I am fortunate that it is not the path I am on. I am grateful for that as I am grateful to those to dedicate themselves to the continuation of the survival of the Jewish people.
Both you and Yamit have an axe to grind – I could too, but I choose not to. We have enough going against us – I certainly don’t need to add to that….do you?
dove Said:
I disagree.
@ yamit82:
That in my opinion is a very disrespectful and sacreligious statement to make. Glad your not our leader….. 🙂 🙂 🙂
@ yamit82:
Much to disagree with re: Hareidim but at least they are Jews. The reform have long by act and declaration removed themselves from the Jewish people that they do not recognize and Judaism which they do not accept or practice….
deanblake Said:
In one very large multi-bathroom for all.
Where does it all end? A place for gentiles? a place for the transgenders? a place for the agnostics? Since when is gender equality a tenant of Reform or Conservative Judaism? Where is it written by their ‘great sage’ Rabbi Stephan Wise?
yamit82 Said:
Are they Jews or ” Hard Shell” Baptist ? One of my Dads favorite songs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmqfZ0k2mxQ
@ yamit82:
Well said and well written .
Per Said:
Cum by ya ya cum by ya !!!!!!!!! Are not Jews allowed anything that is solely, singularly to themselves.
Where is the multi cultural Medina, Mecca or Vatican?
yamit82 Said:
There’s a crack in the wall?????
@ Per:
Screw the wall it has no religious significance or religious holiness but is a symbol of Jewish shame and defeat. I say tear it down.
dove Said:
Much to disagree with re: Hareidim but at least they are Jews. The reform have long by act and declaration removed themselves from the Jewish people that they do not recognize and Judaism which they do not accept or practice….
There is not a single commandment that the reformists accept as a core of their religion. A person can violate every commandment and still be a reform Jew. At most, they accept the commandments that coincide with their ethical norms; an opposition to murder or robbery, however, does not constitute a religion. Their reformism includes no Shabbat or kashrut, no moral or ritual purity, and nothing of Judaism. So it’s not an attempt to reinterpret Jewish law, but an attempt to dress atheism in religious garb. That sophistic approach is typical of leftists; they change the meaning of terms to suit their theories. Thus, compassion became a welfare state.
When an orthodox Jew speaks about Judaism, the meaning is clear: he refers to the laws of the Torah as adapted in rabbinical writing. The reformism lacks theology because it doesn’t need one. Any theology would be too much for its atheist adherents.
On the other hand, many orthodox Jews are also atheists. They confined their G-d to synagogues, and pay him homage through mundane rites, such as the Shabbat elevator, but bar him from real life. Religious considerations don’t influence their political, business, or moral behavior. They mumble prayers without pausing to shiver at the immense sanctity of a man talking to G-d. What was a rare occasion for prophets became an unthinking rite, a cheap imitation for orthodox Jews. They celebrate Chanukkah, the holiday of victory in the civil war between Jewish fundamentalists and liberals, and do nothing about the Israeli government, which is much worse than the Maccabee-era liberals. In pagan fashion, many orthodox Jews replaced religion with symbolism; their Judaism is no longer their way of life, but the lockstep of mundane symbolic actions long bereft of meaning.
They blow kisses to the Torah scrolls and mezuzot, but ignore the weightier matter of law: fighting to establish a Jewish state—a really Jewish one.
Moderation?
Who is the bigger mennace to Israel? Reform or Haredi? I still think it’s Haredi. Reform needs to recognize that and be better supporters of Israel as a Jewish State.
Reform needs to stop having so much compassion for our enemies and little regard for us as a people. They complain and whine alot.
Why not convert the entire eastern wall into a multi cultural mixed gender prayer area?
In Israel these Jewish leftists are causing trouble where they are safe from danger. But they dare not visit the Temple Mount and risk danger from the Muslims. Why not encourage these leftists to find another location to create their own country.
A mixed gender prayer area proposed by Liberal Jews sounds to me very similar to mixed gender bathrooms mandated by Obama. But of course Liberal Jews love Obama since they voted for him twice.