It could very well be that a Halakhic State is exactly what Israel needs.
To Liberman, and to the champions of secularism like him, along with all of champions of liberalism, gay rights, abortion, and intermarriage, a State guided by the laws and moral teachings of the Torah is the worst thing in the world that could happen. Their fight isn’t against the Haredim – it is a war against the Torah and G-d.
What does a Torah State mean? Internationally, it means that Israel will still export life-enhancing innovations to the world, in hi-tech, medicine, agriculture, computer technology…, just as it does now, with the added dimension that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs will export the life-enhancing teachings of the Torah to the nations of the world, to aid them in rectifying their moral and spiritual abysses, and bring them to the true knowledge of G-d.
Once the Gentiles get excited and the Torah goes viral, Jews alienated from Judaism and from any remnants of Jewish Identity other than bagels and lox, will take notice and want to jump on the bandwagon. After all, if the Torah is “cool” to the goyim, Jews will want to try it as well.
A Torah State in Israel means that all government departments and projects, like building bridges and railway tracks, will be suspended on Shabbat. It means that Torah education will be a main part of the curriculum in public schools. A National Tzedaka Institute will provide charity to all needy souls. Aliyah allotments and benefits will be substantially increased to promote the ingathering of the exiles. Women will not serve in the army in any combat roles or as instructors for men. Lecturers with anti-Torah agendas and opinions will not be allowed into army bases or schools. Foreign journalists with an anti-Israel bias will be turned away at the airport. The Haaretz newspaper will stop being antisemitic.
Enemies who threaten the State of Israel will be offered a chance to desist or be totally destroyed. The Palestinian Authority and the Hamas will cease to exist. Jewish sovereignty will return to all the Biblical borders of Eretz Yisrael. Any non-Jew resident who refuses to accept Israeli sovereignty will be ousted from the Land. Same-gender marriages, and the like, will be out. The traditional family will flourish.
The Beit HaMikdash will be restored on the Temple Mount in all of its former glory. The Sanhedrin will be re-instituted and the legal system will be guided by Halakha. Bibi Netanyahu will become a baal tshuva and be appointed to govern, or a ruler shall be chosen by a national election.
Did I miss anything? What the matter with all that?
Tzvi Fishman was awarded the Israel Ministry of Education Prize for Jewish Culture and Creativity. Before making Aliyah to Israel in 1984, he was a successful Hollywood screenwriter. He has co-authored 4 books with Rabbi David Samson, based on the teachings of Rabbis A. Y. Kook and T. Y. Kook. His other books include: “The Kuzari For Young Readers” and “Tuvia in the Promised Land”. His books are available on Amazon. Recently, he directed the movie, “Stories of Rebbe Nachman.”
@ Edgar G.:I actually if you would have gone to my link I went to the Chabad site. I find very good information about Judaism there.
I accept that you do not know enough about Torah Law to make any recommendations. I am certainly no expert in Torah Law either. However the little I read makes me very leery of implementing it broad brush into Israeli life as law to be followed. So I did some research and came up with an opinion based on the research (limited as it was).
@ Bear Klein:
They are called Mitzvot, (translated as “Commandments) which I dispute strongly. I recall looking them up many years ago and just laughed. . One was “to love G-D”.
Another was “to love learning Torah”…another was “to put fringes on the corners of your garments” (do you do THAT..??) another was “to stay close to those who learn Torah:”.
And a lot more nonsense like that. I believe it was a list that Rambam made by going through the Torah, and anything which looked as if it was suggested, he regarded as a Commandment. You’d think he had nothing better to do with his time….maybe he hadn’t……?
I suppose you regard these as important as “Thou shalt not commit murder”…and the like….I don’t believe you do….
Anyway I answered you the best I could without looking up some that may have been really worth while. I would have recognised them as important enough, and so would you.
You picked a few from Wiki I suppose, and I didn’t disagree with you .
I have the (bad) habit of making comment always relying on my memory, unless I say otherwise. What’s the point of having to do research to answer or comment on something which should be one’s own feelings on the matter. All one would be doing would be to look up the internet, saving the others from doing the same.
I just prefer spontaneity…..knowing that they are truly my own thoughts on the matter-and not someone else’s….
@ Edgar G.:
The 613 Commandments (Mitzvot)
I picked a few Mitzvot in my above prior comments which you replied to. Mostly I find that it is nice sentiment adding a bit of Torah Law but not really practical if you want to live in the modern world and certainly a democratic state with free people.
Just like one can not force masses of Haredim to serve in the IDF, you also will not be able to force people who do not want to follow all the Mitzvot such as strict Shabat adherence to do so.
@ Bear Klein:
Yes I did… s well s Im cpable of it..not being a Torah scholar, and not knowing specifically all the Torah Laws, what do you expect from me. …? It requires a combined top class legal scholar with dual expertise in both Democratic law and Torah Law.
I am neither. My best answer was contained in the response in which I mentioned :”reaching a happy mean”….
@ Edgar G.:
You never answered my question about which Torah Laws you would like to see implemented into the Israeli Law Books.
@ Edgar G.:
Rabbi Peretz he is no one outstanding to merit being a party head. He wants to retain the number one position in the United Right and that I believe that is a political mistake. He is offering Shaked the number two position. He has it backwards. I also believe he does not want Bennett back.
It is possible in the end we will have two technical small right wing parties: First – New Right with Shaked (as head), Bennett technically merging with Zehut (Feiglin). Feiglin has said he will not merge with the United Right.
Second United Right: Jewish Home (Peretz), National Union (Smotrich) plus Otzma (Ben-Gvir).
United Right are trying to avoid Bennett but want Shaked.
We will see what happens.
@ Bear Klein:
A pity you didn’t answer my question about Peretz. It wasn’t rhetorical but real. I really wanted to know what you all think about it…….if you think as I do about it and him..
I’d like to see a quick call of votes from the combined parties members for a new list, and see where he ends up on it.
@ Bear Klein:
“Turning the other cheek”……is a Goyisher concept from their “Book of Lies, Mysteries and Imagination”.. “assimilation”….????…..
“Tut-tiddly -ut-ut,… tut-tut…..!!!!.
@ Edgar G.:What I hope to get the maximun amount off seats and the best Knesset members that the broadest United Right party be formed with Ayelet Shaked (as the head) plus Bennett, Smotrich, Feiglin, Peretz, Ben-Gvir.
Polls show the party would get more seats this way. The party should be inclusive of Right Wing Nationalists whether Religious Zionists or Secular Zionists.
I hope the egos stand aside for the good of the country.
There is an on-going activity to try and make this happen.
Shaked got 40% and Bennett 19% to be the head of the party according to a recent poll.
I am not a lover of all these people but since they are all for sovereignty and for a strong Israel who will not turn the other cheek with our enemies any differences I have with some of them can be put aside.
If this could become the third largest party and second largest party in the coalition it could have more clout. Hopefully Shaked would get to Justice Minister again. Bennett would fight hard to be Defense Minister but Bibi will fight him on that but you never know. Certainly I would he would prefer Bennett to Liberman as Defense Minister.
I would estimate a truly broad United Right party could get 8 to 12 Seats and would indispensable to form a right wing plus Haredi Coalition, hopefully without Liberman.
@ Edgar G.:
Meant to also ask what do you folks think of this wonderful Rabbi Peretz….so full of “humility and wisdom” as all the great Rabonim were and which attributes are deeply evident in most-if not all- of today’s (non-political) Rabonim. He refuses to benefit his Party and the Jewish People as a whole, by relinquishing his “leadership” (he’s no leader anyway..just like Herzog and Gabbay) …….
A real Mensch….eh??
@ Bear Klein:
I’m all for them, and not just for converts. We all know that converts were accepted as full Jews after proper conversion. This has always been …..Even though Antipater and Herod were always referred to pejoratively as “the Edomite”…..a reference to the “forcible” conversion by Yohanan Hyrcanus of the Idumean population. 2-3 generations before
{{ I don’t regard it as forcible but very lenient for the times…. Hyrcanus had conquered the land, now being all Judea, and gave them the option to leave or convert. They were accepted as full Jews.}}
The penalty could be exile…after reversing the circumcision…………….????
@ Bear Klein:
Ruth was married to a Jew and, although in Moab (really next door) living a Jewish life for years. And I never believed that at that time anyone had winkled out that there were 613 dinim. There could not have been, and perhaps this revelation appeared only after the destruction of the Temple and the appearance of the School at Javne…
Too much horror has happened to the Jewish People from Goyim for me to readily accept conversion in one easy step as you suggest. The Rabbomim today who feel their whole duty is to guard the purity of the Jewish Nation, would have views poles apart from yours.
If a happy mean were to be achieved I would be all for it.
By the way…Ruth, although always used as an example of how much she loved the Jewish people…the story differs from that concept. She loved Naomi, and for HER sake only did she express those immortal words..
tt could have been that she was afraid to be alone and to fend for herself after 10 years of marriage, not a young nubile girl any more etc….Who knows.
In the meantime, it’s an impressive story, if only for those sentiments expressed by Ruth.
@ Adam Dalgliesh:
And were also fervent Chalutzim. I have seen many pictures of women, girls really working hard with spades and other implements on land that they were cultivating in pre-state days. They did their share…and more,…. doing their part in fighting off marauding Arabs…. looking after the home and raising children as well…
Just to summarize briefly my position on these issues:
I agree that “ultra-Orthodox” Jews helped a great to preserve our religion,values and identity through the long, dark years of persecution. And I think the haredi community is continuing to make a contribution to Israeli national life in this way.
I think the haredi leadership is wrong to oppose military service and conversions, to support segregation of the sexes in public transport, etc. However, I don’t think this is the right time to provoke a major political conflict about these issues. The Israelis’ focus needs to be on defeating our Arab and Iranian enemies. Resolving our internal conflicts is best put off until their has at least been major improvements in the security and safety of all Israeli Jews, and the state itself.
There is some evidence that these issues have already begun to be ameliorated by the gradual increase in the number of haredim who are being integrated into Israeli society. More haredi men and women are working outside their own communities as part of the general work force. More of them are getting some secular general education, and/or are being trained in technical skills. Every year for the past five years, the number of haredim volunteering for military service has increased. The IDFs programs for encouraging haredi enlistment seem to be working.
As more younger haredim are integrating themselves into mainstream Israeli life, although not abandoning their love for Torah, a new generation of haredi leaders is likely to emerge that is more open to the views of the majority of Israelis about these controversial issues. That will make it much easier and less divisive for the Knesset to legislate change in the present religious “status quo.’
In general, I believe that most human problems and conflicts are best solved gradually, not all at once. The French and Russian revolutions are examples of the disaster that can happen when there are attempts to solve deeply rooted problems all at once.
@ Edgar G.:I say we implement the spirit of the Book of Ruth for conversion. That when a person comes voluntarily to live among the Jewish people and want to be part of the Jewish people they are so accepted as a convert. We set up reasonable criteria to do that, which learning the customs, rituals, culture and history of the Jewish people.
@ Edgar G.:
What do you think about the implementation of these mitzvot into law of the land?
502. Not to cheat a sincere convert monetarily—Exodus 22:20
503. Not to insult or harm a sincere convert with words—Exodus 22:20
@ Edgar G.:
What do you think about implementing the following three mitzvot into Law?
I suggest the following three:
13. To love other Jews—Leviticus 19:18
14. To love converts—Deuteronomy 10:19
15. Not to hate fellow Jews—Leviticus 19:17
What would the appropriate penalty be for breaking one these laws?
Plus One Mitzvah says to build a Holy Temple. I say go for that. What do you say Edgar?
@ Adam Dalgliesh:What do you think about implementing the following three mitzvot into Law?
I suggest the following three:
13. To love other Jews—Leviticus 19:18
14. To love converts—Deuteronomy 10:19
15. Not to hate fellow Jews—Leviticus 19:17
What would the appropriate penalty be for breaking one these laws?
@ Edgar G.: Edgar, I couldn’t agree more. Women have always played a role in the leadership of Jewry. And I am also for their being leaders now–especially Shaked, Miri Rogev and Hotovely.
Women are also making vital contributions to the Israeli army, and have done so since its inception.
@ Edgar G.:
Sorry Frank…I just saw I wrote 200 years instead of 100 years, which is what I meant to write.
@ Frank Adam:
Well…they had a reason. The Reformation had been about 200 years before and they
hated Catholicism with a passion. There were “wall to wall” Catholic plots to overthrow the Crown, and bring back the “old religion” to the country. At the time of the Revolution, they were ruled by a king who had married a French Catholic Princess, spent much time in Spain, their old enemy, and was very much inclined towards that religion.; vain, stupid, spendthrift, a stubborn.
He insisted on levying taxes without consent of Parliament -for instance- as he believed in “the Divine Right of Kings”…and was constantly in disputes with the people and Parliament.
It was a miracle that he survived on the throne for over 20 years.
@ Adam Dalgliesh:
Therre have been some great women leaders and prophets in ancient Israel. Devorah, Miryam, Huldah, Esther, and others…… like Hanna the mother of Samuel, and who prophesied, also Yael who killed Sisera..
Their examples inspired later generations.
Look at Dona Gracia Mendes. Nasi…..A most wonderful almost unique woman -a leader extra-ordinaire.
@ Bear Klein:
Bear I think you are being satirical. You now darned well that the Israeli public,the large majority of whom are secular, would not stand for that kind of government.
But, I think it would be a benefit that a few more Torah Laws should, be enshrined in the country’s legislation. A Jewish State is a Jewish country after all. And the Torah kept us going for many centuries until this day. It need not interfere with International relationships.
You are describing the Mea Shearim lunatics like the Neturai Karta, and the other groups there,.-in fcat worse, maybe like that secretive group that’s been kicked out of every country where tit settles… think they’re called the :Lev Tahor or something like that…utterly crazy.
These mishugayim are likely the result of hundreds of years of close interbreeding…poor souls, they can’t help it. You should (as I do) have rachmonas on them.
Ted, something went wrong and my most recent post, about haredi youth gangs desecrating their own shuts, assaulting their elders who are praying there on holy days, etc., somehow got sent to trash. Can you please fish it out and post it here? I think all Israpundit readers should see it. It shows why increased haredi enlistment in the IDF of “restless,” troubled haredi young men of haredi background has become a necessity, for the haredi community itself.https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/1740110/watch-it-delinquent-chareidi-youths-terrorize-bnei-brak-storm-dorog-bais-medrash-assault-chassidim-vandalize-antania-shul.html
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/1740110/watch-it-delinquent-chareidi-youths-terrorize-bnei-brak-storm-dorog-bais-medrash-assault-chassidim-vandalize-antania-shul.htmlEveryone should watch this truly incredible video of a haredi youth gang (‘delinguent haredi youths”) invading synagogues and yeshivas in the haredi town of Bnei Brak, terrorizing the worshippers, assaulting them with sticks, spraying them with pepper spray, fighting with each other, vandalizing sacred objects. All this on Shabbes and Shavuous while older haredim are in the midst of the prayers. The gangsters are beating elderly men. are beating elderly men trying to pray. Most of the congregation flee the building in panic. Some of them insist on continuing their prayers even as they are being beaten and pepper-sprayed by the crazed youths. But the youths are clearly of haredi background themselves. Many of them are wearing skullcaps and tallisum qatamim (small prayer shawls worn as undergarments by pious Jews). Madness! But the praying elderly men were reluctant to turn in the gangsters to the police on a holy day. Even afterwards, many victims were reluctant to talk to the police and identify the hoodlums, since they don’t like to turn to the police concerning internal problems within their own community.
Obviously, many younger haredim are not adjusting to the traditional haredi way of life. After serving prison terms, they should be drafted into the army and given a chance to redeem themselves. The haredi community has got to face the fact that many members of their younger generation are just not suited to a life of prayer and study. Some of them are rebelling in this chaotic, criminal way. THe haredi community leaders should encourage these restless, rebellious young people to join the IDF. The army is the traditional place in all countries that troubled youth with delinquesnt tendencies (not hardened career criminals) learn discipline, how to cooperate with others, and become men.
Under Cromwell the puritans tried a “Torah state” and made themselves so unpopular that till now “kill-joy puritan” is still a reproach. Just look at what has happened in Iran. Religion is very tricky and ephemeral to manage and in practice gives too many an excuse to play sergeant at kit inspection 24/7 and so rile a lot of people whose consents we need in the sort of complex technical society we inhabit and which the religious do not understand the workings and ramifications of. Take the advice of the first Queen Elizabeth and her contemporary in Poland when it was 50% Calvinist NOT to make windows into men’s souls. That way we are back to the Inquisition and the KGB.
Israeli Declaration of Independence describes the State of the Jewish People that was reborn in 1948. This is a free state for all Jews and its inhabitants. It does not distinguish between those that follow one Mitzvah or those try and follow all 613. It does not distinguish between those that wear a kippah and those that do not. Those that try and limit our people and reject those that different in some way make us weaker and not stronger. A stronger Israel tries to find what binds the Jewish people and not what where they may differ.
What I hope will be my ‘last word” on the whole question of the religious-secular confrontation. I hope I can restrain myself from further comment.
The Israeli Supreme Court ruled six years ago, in 2013. that the lifetime draft exemptions given to yeshive students were “unconstitutional.” The court’s reasoning was very shaky. Israel has no constitution as such. It has ‘basic laws,” but none of them guarantee “equality” for all citizens. This word doesn’t occur in the basic laws.But the court claims that tthe laws do guarantee equal rights for all citizens, using very strained reasoning to justify its decree.
However, neither the court nor the Knesset has made a serious effort to enforce this decree for six long years, despite frquent promises by both justices and numerous politicians to do so. The reaon is that every time the Knesset passes a “first reading” of the law, mass demonstrations by haredim protesting it occur. And extremist elements in the haredi community throw anything from stones to dirty diapers to rotten eggs at police and passersby. They set up barricades and block streets. No one has suffered serious injury in these riots except maybe a handful of haredim whose heads have been cracked open by police (the stones seem to be too small to inflict much damage, unlike the stones thrown by Arabs at Jews). But they are a public nuisance, to be sure. At a time when Arab terrorist attacks are all too common, Hamas and Hisbollah have assembled a massive array of thousands of missiles aimed at Israel, as has Iran, when Iran has assembled a large army of Shiite “volunteers” right next to the Golan Heights, when thousands of acres of Israeli farmland and forest have been burned by thousands of terrorists-the majority of Israeli Jews don’t want more aggravation. And they don’t want the police force, which is needed to intercept and prevent terrorist attacks, “neutralize” terrorists and deal with “ordinary” crime, tobe diverted from this mission by Jewish riots.
For the same reasons, mostIsraelis put up with the refusal of the haredi-dominated, government empowered rabbinate to convert the hundreds of thousands of people of Jewish ancestry or with Jewish spouses and in-laws to Judaism. Forcing hundreds of thousands of citizens to either marry abroad or marry in church, and making them feel left out of the Jewish people, is certainly a problem. But it is not life-threatening, the way the Arab armies and terrorist forces are. It is clear that the average Israeli wants Israel’s security to improve and their most formidable enemies at least to be defeated in battle, before they tackle the thorny internal disputes that divide the jewish people.
And the Israeli person in the street is right to have these priorities. We Jewish activists should unite to demand that the Israel government take action action against Israel’s Arab and Iranian enemies, and put our internal disputes aside at least for the time being. This is a survival priority.
@ Lorensacho:
Something important in this discussion are missed.
1. I did not remember to see definition of the Jew. Definition of the Jewish people is in the Torah and all tight to their religion, Bible and their special relations with G-d.
2. Majority of Jews by ancestry lost in the thousands of years in Galut their bond with Jewish religion and returned to the modern Israel as so called secular Jews. As such, they imported inside themselves their Galut to the Jewish state.
3. It is very important for such Jews to understand whom Gentile nations consider a Jews. It is important because practically and halahically only by Gentiles nations Jewish state could be and was re-instated/ resurrected. And secular Jews in the eyes of the non-Jew is a nonsense, abnormal – because in their mind explanation and justification of existence of the Jewish people given in the Bible in the name of G-d as His separate nation from all others.
Therefore, state of Israel exist only because of observant Jews and should certainly moving toward Halahic state. Secular Jews should be viewed as a temporary status as heavy heritage of the Galut (with no coercion of them to religion). Avodah to Hashem and learning should be viewed as publicly necessary work. It does not mean that observant Jews are exempt from regular work as soon as no contradiction with his/her observance.
Full article at https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/06/07/new-election-highlights-tense-ties-to-ultra-orthodox/
@ denpobedy:In your version of Israel there would be more available apartments for a while due to the great exodus.
Soon there would be no Israel because of the Great Drop in GDP. They would not be able to buy nor create the great weapons they do now. The amount of soldiers would be insufficient because those people you do not consider Jews (according to your view) would no longer be serving in enough numbers to protect those Haredi Yeshiva boys who now find ways not to serve.
A great Jew is one who is good to other people and serves his country and is willing to protect his country Israel. Whether or not he keeps all 612 Mitzvot. A bad Jew is one who does not serve his country and allows others to do this whether he spends 12 hours per day in Yeshiva or not.
@ Bear Klein:
“Only way to insure freedom is democracy.” – which is a Greek concept based on the misunderstanding of the Korakh episode and a mangled “adam qeret”
“So would a Torah State be like Iran where the clergy rule?” – no, rabbis are *teachers*
“ould female scientists not be allowed to be in the same room with male scientists who are not blood related.” – yes, which is happening now anyway since anyone can be accused of sexual misconduct without witnesses, so probably mandatory camers everywhere
“Israel was re-created so Jews have homeland.” – no, not re-created, but returned (incomplete)
“Jews come in many variations of religious or non-religious beliefs.” – no, by definition to be a ‘Jew’ is to be living based on Torah values. If th eonly requirement was to have a Jewish mother, HKB”H wouldn’t have given all those other mitzvot
“Israel should have all Jews welcome and free.” – Am Yisrael was freed from Egyptian slavery to serve HaShem – see Pesakh
“An environment should be were all are free to worship or not as they see fit. No coercive religion.” – no, Am Yisrael doesn’t have ‘religion’, we have culture called Torah. Its not optional.
“Would hospitals have to be segregated? Would only female doctors being able to treat women?” – physical examinations of females performed by females only, yes, but vast majority of nursing assistants are female.
“Would the least educated in society be ruling over the secular?” – secular doesn’t mean atheist, but ‘worldly’. Haredim are wrong about not learning sciences.
“If the above nightmare occurred the USA would be even more awash in Israeli doctors, scientists and PHD’s to say the least.” – yes, how terrible that cost of medicine would become affordable to the average American, a real nightmare
So in this Torah State would conversion be like it was in the old days one is accepted to the Jewish nation if they demonstrate their desire to join the Jewish people (nation)? Hopeful it would not be as now in Israel which unless you lie or fake it you must show that you follow all the 612 mitzvot or least close as the Haredi do. Though in reality most Jews do not do this.
Full article at https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Conversion-Joining-a-religion-or-joining-a-nation-591812
@ Adam Dalgliesh:
Dati = Religious
Leumi = National
I don’t think there is any prohibition on women acting as teachers to men in halacha. The present crop of haredi leaders seem to invent halacha as they go along.
I agree with Bear that the Dati Leumi trend in Israel has made very positive contributions to the nation. My wish would be that only Dati Orthodox people would be allowed to serve in government positions concerned with religious affairs (such as marriage, divorce, exemptions from military service, etc.), –in other wordson the chief rabbinate, the religious courts, which are government positions–and to receive salaries from the government. Also, only Dati rabbis should be “city rabbis” paid by the government. Only Dati yeshivas should receive state subsidies.
But these are just wish lists with zero chance of being adopted by the government. Even the Dati rabbis are maintaining solidarity with the haredi rabbinate at present–and that, even though the haredi rabbinate treats the Dati with gross disrespect and refuses to accept the conversions they perform as legitimate.
I think that there is a more pressng need to limit the powers of the Supreme Court and the officials that answer to it (such as the attorney general, and the “legal advisors” appointed by the court to every government insure that no government official makes any decision that is contrary to the judges’ wishes), or are aligned with it (the “selection committees” who must approve all appointments to important government and military positions, other than the largely impotent cabinet ministers). I think changing this system is more urgent, for t Israel’s national security and the restoration of democracy in Israel (the present judicial rule in not a democratic form of government), than corrcting the abuses of the haredi rabbinate, even though these abuses are real
In addition, I think there is a critical mass of support for reducing the powers of the judiciary to those assigned them in the basic laws. If a genuinely right wing, or more accurately nationalist-Zionist government is ever elected, I think it would have the necessary popular support to enact these judiciary reforms. I don’t think the supporters of the Supreme Court are likely to riot, since they are “bourgeois” types not used to this sort of thing. While they may hold mass protest demonstrations in Rabin Square, I suspect they will get discouraged and stop fairly quickly. Leftist street campaigns tend not to last too long and to be ineffective. Theirexpertise is in manipulating the seats of power in private, not street theater.
On the other hand, the haredim are experienced rioters, and can keep rioting for months until they get what they want. Not practical to provoke this until there have been major progress in defeating Israel’s Arab enemies.
@ Adam Dalgliesh:Actually the IDF has found women highly motivated and excellent instructors.
I have known several women (one a relative) who made a career in the IDF. It is an excellent use of brainpower and motivated women. Israel is way too small not to use its entire motivated voluntary men or women.
The women are excellent in many tasks in the IDF.
Kind of kooky in my view. Why would women be banned from teaching men technical skills in the army? I’ve never heard of any rule in halacha banning this.
The present-day haredim do seem to have a problem with women that is not based on Torah or halachah, but on misogynistic attitudes they’ve picked up from somewhere-probably theirArab neighbors.
And who is this ex-Hollywood screenwriter laying down the law about modesty and segregation of the sexes? What credibility does he have?
Reminds me of Meir Kahane’sproposal that the Knesset ban sexual intercourse between Jews and Gentiles. It lacked credibiity because he was widely alleged to have had an extended extramarital affair with a non-Jewish woman earlier in his life. She is said to have committed suicide because of her love of him, when he told her he wouldn’t leave his wife to marry her. He established a foundation in her name to prevent people from committing suicide. Of course, maybe that’s why he wanted to ban interfaith sex.
@ vivarto:I believe what you describe exists in Israel among the Dati Leumi (translation National Religious or Religious Zionists) and exists among the Secular Right and also among the Zionist Center. It exists among all the secular or traditional Jews except for a minority in the far far left secular. Even there is a growing number of the Haredi who are becoming Zionists such as the Chabad.
There is more to Jewish identity than Torah, and certainly more than Halacha.
What we need is Israelite nationalism. This nationalism can be religious or secular.
@ Lorensacho:
Only way to insure freedom is democracy.
So would a Torah State be like Iran where the clergy rule?
Would female scientists not be allowed to be in the same room with male scientists who are not blood related.
Israel was re-created so Jews have homeland. Jews come in many variations of religious or non-religious beliefs. Israel should have all Jews welcome and free. An environment should be were all are free to worship or not as they see fit. No coercive religion.
Would hospitals have to be segregated? Would only female doctors being able to treat women?
Would the least educated in society be ruling over the secular?
If the above nightmare occurred the USA would be even more awash in Israeli doctors, scientists and PHD’s to say the least.
What’s wrong with a Torah state? Nothing, as long as those in power don’t impose their rules on those who have different beliefs.
Religion and its practices should be voluntary not coerced.
In a religious state is likely that football (soccer) games which very very popular in Israel would no longer be played on Shabbat.
Would there be religious police like in Iran if Israel were run as a religious state? Would they arrest people for violating the Shabbat? Or would stoning become legal for Shabbat violations?
Would they close down a restaurant if it was not up the religious police or “correct” kosher inspector’s standards (or increased bribes).
In Practice the Rabbinical Courts would run Israel. Women would become second class citizens. No thanks Tvi.