How can they possibly write “this report, if approved, will place .. the prestige of Israel as a democratic member of the international community, in peril.” Upholding the rule of law is what democracy is all about. Why do they not rejoice, as we on the right do, over this significant boost to Israel’s rights. Instead they want to suppress our rights. Ted Belman
More than 40 prominent American Jewish leaders and philanthropists sent a letter to Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu Sunday in which they implored him not to approve the judicial report that says Jews may settle freely in Judea and Samaria.
“As strong advocates for Israel’s security and well-being as a Jewish and democratic state, we are deeply concerned about the recent findings of government commission led by Supreme Court Justice (Ret.) Edmond Levy,” the letter said.
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“We fear that this report, if approved, will place the two-state solution, and the prestige of Israel as a democratic member of the international community, in peril.”
The letter’s signatories letter include philanthropists Charles Bronfman and Lester Crown; Marvin Lender, Former National Chairman of UJA; Rabbi Daniel Gordis, President of the Shalem Center; Deborah Lipstadt, an expert on Holocaust studies at Emory University; Bernard Nussbaum, former White House Counsel; Thomas Dine, a former executive director of AIPAC; E. Robert Goodkind, a former president of the American Jewish Committee; Richard Pearlstone, former chairman of the Jewish Agency; and Rabbi David Saperstein, director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism.
The Levy Committee’s report determines that Israel cannot be characterized as “an occupier” of Judea and Samaria because the territory never legally belonged to Jordan before Israel regained it in 1967.
The letter was initiated by the Israel Policy Forum (IPF), which was attacked in 2007 by veteran Jewish leader and columnist Isi Liebler as a group that “delegitimizes” Israeli policies.
IPF president Seymour Reich and chairman Marvin Lender replied to Liebler’s accusations by writing: “If we were ‘Jews against Zion’ (Leibler’s repugnant description), would Rabin, Sharon, Peres, Netanyahu, Barak, Olmert, Livni, Ramon (to name just a few Israeli leaders, current and past) speak at IPF events or meet with IPF leaders? We think not.”
@ yamit82:
“Preconceived beliefs”?
How does one ‘preconceive’ a belief?
(do you EVER bother to stand back & re-read what you’ve written?)
Kindly provide an example of a “preconceived belief” of mine
— and show how I have used it to “reinvent” scripture.
“Out of my ‘league'”? — what ‘league’ would that be?
— (since you’ve already said — numerous times now — that I’m “in a class by itself”)
If you were at all secure in yourself, Yamit — ‘intellectually’ or any other way — you would have no need to be stooping to such desperately irrelevant & glaringly impertinent (to say nothing of untrue) graspings as this.
Beyrachnuchem mibeyt Adonai.
And your point in throwing scraps of t’hillim at me at this time . . . . ?
@ yamit82:
Of course you are making my case.
— It is your own words that betray you. Re-read what you’ve written in this thread.
He ‘hated’ Jews one helluva lot LESS than you do, boychik.
You did nothing of the sort, and any objective observer would draw the same conclusion as I did.
What you, in fact, DID do was to ‘supply’ me with the scurrilous, axe-grinding bellowings of one Francisco Gil-White — and called those bellowings “evidence.”
— and I clearly illustrated for you (and anybody else interested enough to follow the discourse) precisely how — and why — those bellowings constituted anything but ‘evidence.’
Define the phrase “believe in.”
If I believe that electricity exists, is that enough to say that I “believe in” it? If I believe that the Laws of Thermodynamics are real and actual, is that enough to say that I “believe in” them?
— Or, rather, do I have to also genuflect to them, sing songs of hallel to them, and end every supplication with phrases like, “for I ask it in Thermodynamics’ Name, amen,” etc?
If believing in “J and the NT” requires the latter option, then it is NOT correct to say that I “believe in” them.
If you honestly can’t tell the difference between the former & the latter
— then you are willfully stupid.
If you CAN tell the difference, but instead deliberately conflate them for purposes of trying to win a point rhetorically
— then you are willfully disingenuous.
Which is it?
@ dweller:
No, I’m not making your case you are in fact now making mine.
Reagan was a Jew hating SOB. and I did supply you with evidence to support my contention. That you reject it with BS apologetics is your hang up and problem.
That you believe in J and the NT shows HOW far off the cliff you are. Again you like all Christians reinvent and reinterpret Jewish scriptures according to your preconceived beliefs as to what they should mean. Seems to me that based on what you have commented so far you are really out of your league and an intellectual pygmy compared to the commentaries of the Jewish Poskim and commentators past and even present.
“Baruch Haba B’Shem Ado..” 😛
@ TG:
That’s a bit cryptic. Care to elucidate?
@ Trudy:
.
We agree except I recommend something a little more cryptic and painful for them like the ‘Iron Maiden’!!
@ Shy Guy:
KAHLUA WHITE RUSSIAN CAKE:
my favorite but in my recipe I double the Vodka portion.
Chocolate vodka cake!
yamit82: Of course I would complain if ‘chocolate-cake’ commentaries appeared on this column…! That was the whole point of my complaint against the takeover of this column by Vodka addicts. Any sort of food, beverage or, indeed, any other addiction which has nothing to do with the subject of discussion on this column, would have come in for criticism by me. Therefore, at least for me, this diversion from the subject has come to a full stop, so I call on everybody to return to the subject matter and…..Shalom al-Israel and may those 40 peabrained and chutzpadik ‘jewish leaders’ go take a long walk of a short pier at their closest seashore!
@ Shy Guy:
Judaism is yo mama.
TG Said:
That’s a bit cryptic. Care to elucidate?
@ yamit82:
Keep it up; you’re making my case.
You’re apparently one ‘Jew’ to whom it wasn’t given
— or certainly who never accepted it.
Then too, if the commandment was only ‘given to the Jews’
— I guess that means that goyim are free to libel, slander, or otherwise unjustly defame anybody, since the Commandment wasn’t given to them — right?
So it follows, e.g., that the Damascus Blood Libel against Jews was ok in God’s judgment (wasn’t even a libel)
— since the injunction against bearing of false witness wasn’t given to those non-Jewish perpetrators — right?
You need to believe that, Shmendrick.
This little gem tells us far more about YOU than it does about myself, OR about Jews, OR about the Commandments, OR about the Gentiles.
Takes more than an allegation to make a case.
— Takes a fact.
And you’ve never established one in that dept.
Never.
You just don’t like having your heroes’ noses rubbed in their own mess, because it reflects badly on your identification with them.
But I’ve never slandered anybody
— Jewish OR ‘gentile.’
If I make a flat-out accusation (as I surely have done where you are concerned), I’m always ready — if challenged — with verifiable and conclusive, suppporting facts.
And that ALSO includes instances where I’ve defended YOU against malicious claims in precisely the same way.
That’s just a sour-grapes, backdoor way of acknowledging that you’ve been out-thought, Yahnkele.
Take your lumps & return to the drawing board.
@ yamit82:
Judaism is not even a belief, since Jews who believe in God don’t understand what happened at Matan Torah
TG
@ Vinnie:
I don’t know that vodka and other products are not imported from Poland I just haven’t noticed any and neither have I noticed much from the EU especially England on our shelves although high ticket items certainly are imported like some industrial equipment, cars, military hardware and components and commercial airplanes.
@ dweller:
Yeah, you’ve called me a vicious slanderer as well. Now in so far as twisting the commandment may I remind you that the commandment was given to the Jews and was only referring to the Jews. You gentiles don’t count… the commandment was not inclusive but exclusive as were most commandments. So if anyone is twisting our scripture it’s you not me.
As for character assassination of those who disagree, you are king of the Hill in that dept. I’ll go one more and say you are on this blog King of the Sophists.
yamit82 Said:
@ yamit82:
Really? At the risk of offending “Trudy”, I’m surprised Israel does not import Polish vodka, given what I understand to be a fairly good state-level relationship, and that Poland buys Israeli military equipment.
I noticed while I was there that the liquor stores had plenty of Absolut vodka, from Sweden…and at least at the state level, they are as anti-Israel as anybody.
@ Shy Guy:
That is very sad.
@ yamit82:
I’ve also had occasion to call you a vicious slanderer — who thinks that, as a ‘Jew,’ he has carte blanche to twist the commandment forbidding the bearing of false witness against one’s neighbor
. . . . to countenance character assassination of those he disagrees with.
@ Andrew:
I have a personal boycott of anything German but Polish? Even if I choose to boycott Polish products I couldn’t because they don’t make anything that’s imported here or that I would want if they did.
These so-called Jewish leaders are assimilated, non observant and are Jews in name only. Their connection to Judaism is through giving large sums of money to causes that will buy them positions of leadership in Jewish organizations They are concerned about acceptance by the Jewish community of their intermarried children and their non-Jewish life style. There are many American Jews who have not yet made aliya, who fully support a one state solution and pray for the safety of our fellow Jews in our beloved Israel.
@ Trudy:
Why can’t I have my cake and eat it too?
Once eaten you no longer have it! 🙁
I’ve been to Poland. MagenDavid=Swastika graffiti in every town and village. 8 and 10 year olds cursing the “damned Jids”.
@ Shy Guy:
I’ve never been to Poland.
I had a friend in grad school who married a Polish national. She was a very sweet gal.
I asked her about the current state of street-level anti-Semitism in Poland today. She said that it was very concentrated in the WW2 generation and the immediate post-WW2 generation, and that among people about our age (born in the early 60s) and younger, it is considered very uncool to be a Jew hater.
I also had a colleague in grad school who was a Polish national. He went out of his way to be very friendly to me (guilt?), and was very pro-Israel. He also told me that the older generation in Poland was terrible, though. He said you’d often hear sentiments from them such as, “Hitler was a very bad man…but at least he killed the Jews!”
Of course, these people were on “my” turf here in the U.S. I couldn’t verify anything they said.
In Chicago, where I lived for six years and went to grad school, there is the largest ethnic Polish population outside of Warsaw.
I’ll bet if I wore a kippa in a Polish neighborhood there, I’d have the same experience you’d expect me to have in Poland.
I have found that ethnic Polish-Americans often do tend to be awful anti-Semites. It seems they have not gotten the word from the Olde Country, that the cousins across the pond may have moved on, if that is really so.
@ Trudy:
No, I wouldn’t.
I like chocolate cake, too.
Oh, Vinnie pleeeeeeeez, in answer to your comment: ” @ Trudy: Oh, puleeeeze! Out of 72 comments – including this one – maybe five or six about vodka. Lighten up.”
Well, there may be ‘only’ 5 or 6 Vodka schmodka comments out of 72 comments so far, but the length of most, including yours, make up what could be 20 or 30 comments dealing with the subject matter. Not only are these Vodka schmodka comments absolutely out of place, they are so bl**dy BORING [except, maybe, for alcoholics) that one tries desperately to just skim over all that gobbledygook as quickly as possible hoping to find something more to the point further along.
So, pleeeeeeeeeeeze, Vinnie, take your vodka talk to the nearest bar/pub and pour it into the ears of those to whom it may be interesting and comprehensible. To such un-‘Lightened’ little me, it’s just a load of gobbledygook of the most vacant-minded kind. Sorry, but that’s my personal opinion which, I hope you will agree, I am allowed to express especially on a column not devoted to the exchange of liquor-loving cant between liquor devotees. I bet you’d turn your nose up if chocolate-cake devotees gobbledygooked on this column as to which, where, why and whose chocolate-cakes they prefer!!
Vinnie Said:
Go to Poland and don a kippa on your head. It helps to understand Polish.
@ Trudy:
Oh, puleeeeze!
Out of 72 comments – including this one – maybe five or six about vodka.
Lighten up.
But back to the subject matter, check out Vic Rosenthal’s ‘FresnoZionism’ blog about this issue (“Prominent American Jews who are ruled by fear”). Super article. Says it better than anyone else I’ve seen.
Hello, everybody. Can I ask what is going on here? The subject matter for comments on this article has now become ‘Which Vodka is the Best…!’ Has this comment column become an advertisement of all the vodka firms being discussed here? As someone who very rarely allows even a sip or two of alcohol to pass my lips, especially hard liquers like Vodka, I am really NOT interested in hearing about other people’s liquer-imbibing habits, nor how many different vodkas there are in the world and how they may differ from each other. Can we get back to the subject-matter, please?
@ yamit82:
When I was in Israel in ’07, the only Israeli vodka I sampled was called Kegevich, and it was grapefruit flavored. It was OK, but did not overly impress me. I’ve had Israeli vodkas imported here, but they were terrible. That was many years ago, however; perhaps they’ve improved since then. Any particular Israeli brand you’d recommend? I’ll look for it and give it a try.
Most of the ones you list I’ve tried or at least heard of, though not the Kauffmann. I’d never spend that much for vodka anyway (my limit is about $30).
Zybrowka really is fantastic, and it isn’t outrageously expensive. Goes for about $21 in these parts. However, that is a flavored vodka, buffalo grass. There is nothing else like it. If you’ve never tried it, you should. You’re in for a treat.
The very best unflavored vodka I’ve ever had is American, believe it or not. “Death’s Door”, made in Door County, Wisconsin. $29 per bottle, and incredible. Don’t know if you can even get that in Israel. Another truly top-notch brand is Russian Standard, out of St. Petersburg. I’ll bet you can find that in Israel. Goes for about $19 here….when you can find it (it disappears very quickly in my area).
Yes, there are a lot of other good ones. Stoli and Ketel are good but overpriced, IMHO. What is on my shelf right now is Blue Ice, a potato vodka from Idaho. A great buy is Sobieski, a Polish rye vodka, which runs about $12 for a full liter.
I see no reason to boycott things Polish nowadays…my understanding is that bilateral relations between Israel and Poland are very good.
@ Andrew:
America in the Bible?
Clear as a bell now. 🙂
Shy Guy Said:
@ Andrew:
What does the GFC have to do with my post and its link?
Shy Guy Said:
Andrew Said:
I would ask the same thing about Iceland.
yamit82 Said:
@ dweller:
Yeah you have but you don’t count as a Humanoid. You are a J..loving self described Mystic, who claims to be in a class by itself..(The original out of the box Tinker)
@ Andrew:
Haven’t tried Zybrowka so it could be true. I like Reyka from Iceland, it’s made they say from pure Glacier water. It is very very smooth. I generally drink with Beef sticks or home made salted mackerel and lots of olives.
yamit82 Said:
Yamit. I’m not really a Vodka drinker, but I’ve heard from a number of afficinados that Zybrowka from Poland is the best.
What’s MOST interesting (to this perpetual denizen of the bleacher seats) is that the letter apparently does not presume to attempt a challenge to the Report’s legal findings — only to suppress them.
It does not say, ‘Your holding is incorrect & here’s why: …’
Instead, it merely says, “Sha, shtil; the neighbors. . . . ”
Instructive.
@ yamit82:
I’ve had occasion to call you a liar.
@ yamit82:
.
Yamit, I stand to be corrected.
This is proof there is a even greater reason for Jews to be proud of being Jewish and of Israel, the Holy Land G-d willed them.
@ rongrand:
Judaism is not a religion
@ yamit82:
I don’t understand those who feel uncomfortable in the practice of their Jewish faith regardless where they reside.
You know where I come from, growing up in a community with a large Jewish population and attending Catholic school 1st thru 12th. In fact our Catholic school was 1/2 block from my home in one direction and a Jewish Community center 1/2 block in the other direction.
Since we were a small Catholic HS we had no gym and our HS basketball team would use the Jewish Community Center gym for practice.
We were taught by the wonderful IHM (Immaculate Heart of Mary) nuns to respect everyone regardless of their faith.
A group of us from Catholic HS paled around with our Jewish friends from the public HS.
The only difference we noted with each other is Jewish services were on Saturday and ours on Sunday.
I would ride shotgun with my Jewish buddy and deliver kosher meat for a Jewish meat market.
I have been to the synagogue with my Jewish friends on a number of occasions.
Yes, I can understand how intermarriage is a problem.
I can understand being loyal to the country where they reside but that is no excuse for not being loyal to their faith and the land
G-d provided for them.
If anything, they should be damn proud to be Jewish and equally proud of Israel, the land, the Holy Land G-d willed them.
@ rongrand:
American Jews, English Jews some French Jews and German Jews transfered their allegiance and Jewish national identity to the Nations in which they settled and received acceptance and social and civil equality. Between the years 250 CE and 1948 CE – a period of 1,700 years – Jews have experienced more than eighty expulsions from various countries in Europe – an average of nearly one expulsion every twenty-one years. Jews were expelled from England, France, Austria, Germany, Lithuania, Spain, Portugal, Bohemia, Moravia and seventy-one other countries.
It is a natural human desire to have a safe and stable place to hang your hat, earn a decent living and provide that social, political and economic security to ones progeny. You can’t understand Jews unless you understand our history and beliefs.
Most Jews were willing to discard their beliefs and their history for personal security and acceptance by the gentiles of the countries where they settled especially Germany before the Nazis and now America. Jews don’t want to be different from the gentiles so they became lousy Jews but the gentiles recognized them as lousy Jews and mistrust them it’s a catch 22 paradox. Deep down I believe Jews subconsciously gravitate to those ideologies and movements that are antithetical To what you would call the Church, moral majority and conservative principles because they reflect those who historically persecuted the Jews.
Problem is those of the radical left and so called progressives are today no less anti Jewish than what was the antisemitic conservative right. Make no mistake many if not most of the Christian right are still antisemitic but it manifests itself in different ways than in the past because many believe we have a common enemy in Islam. Now think about it: who represents those most hated by the conservative right? Liberals, Wall St and the media. Who is disproportionately representative in these enterprises? The Jews!! So when things really go South and I believe they will and the worst is yet to come the right will turn on those hated liberal and leftist Jews along with those in the media and financial sectors that are largely responsible for the American and Global economic collapse.
Israel for most of the American and Western Jews is a reminder of what they are not, they loved us when we were poor and dependent but not when we are out Jewing them in almost every field and don’t really need them or their charity. They are left with nothing to hang their Jewish anchor to and are collapsing from within but it is totally self inflicted. This scenario has happened to us many times but never on the scale that is taking place today nor so quickly 2-3 generations.
As a Catholic I think you understand more than non Catholic Christians what intermarriage damage can do to your faith and we are no different except for Jews it’s also Nationhood and even genetic although that was never our purpose.
A Jew whose first or primary loyalty is to the country where he resides and not to the Jewish people is a Jew we cannot count on, cannot trust and therefore of limited value to we Jews who stand firm in our Jewish beliefs and accept Jewish solidarity as a commandment of our bible. There comes a time when we must cut the line of a sinking ship lest they take us down with them.
Israel is like a Jewish beacon whose light draws others to her beam not the converse.
@ Robert_K:
This mentality is worse than circular reasoning. It is suicide 101 and fear is the source of it. It makes me appreciate the book of Daniel all the more seeing how 3 men
refused to bow to the image and were willing to deny giving MEN that honor.
This is another reason why The Sovereign of Israel always worked in small numbers and sent men home. His strength is made great, in weakness… but many our our leaders have
refused to give Him His due Honor. WHERE IS THE SPIRIT OF KING DAVID?
I know that I have it.
My name is Davida.
@ Vinnie:
Personally I prefer Local Israeli Vodka unflavored but I have experienced many international brands over the years and there are some very good vodkas in many countries some produce excellent brands. I used to sell alcoholic spirits and there are some very good inexpensive brands all over. If you are going to mix your drinks it hardly matters the quality of the Vodka.
elit by Stolichnaya Vodka
Stolichnaya Vodka
Zyr Vodka
Ketel One Vodka
Reyka Vodka
Chopin Vodka
Xellent Vodka
Best I think is Kauffman Luxury Vintage Vodka (Russian) $225 a bottle. limited production.
I read that Obama has given up on the U.S. being able to bring peace to the Middle East. That’s no wonder being that Arab Palestinian Muslims refuse to sign a peace treaty with Israel, which I think pretty much reveals their intentions of continuing war on Israel. I have only disgust for these Arabs who think they can pull off jihad in the Jewish and Christian Holy Land.
Evidently these Americans don’t know that for all intents and purposes the negotiations are over.