The State wants to relocate the herding families that live in temporary illegal structures to the nearby village of Abu Dis, just outside of Jerusalem.
By Tova Lazaroff, JPOST
The High Court of Justice on Monday rejected a petition by 70 Jahalin Beduin families to remain on land that is part of the Ma’aleh Adumim settlement, according to the non-governmental group Regavim.
It issued a statement after a court hearing Monday. According to the court, a ruling was made in the case, but it has not yet been published.
The State wants to relocate the herding families that live in temporary illegal structures to the nearby village of Abu Dis, just outside of Jerusalem.
It has provided the Beduin with free property lots on which they can construct permanent homes. Roads have already been built and infrastructure has already been laid for those homes.
The Beduin families want to remain where they are, because it would be difficult for them to continue to raise sheep from the new property in Abu Dis. They would prefer to build permanent homes in what is known as Area G of Ma’aleh Adumim.
In its response to the High Court of Justice submitted on January 25, the state explained that it would be impossible to authorize the Jahalin Beduin community where it is now located because the area is zoned for Ma’aleh Adumim.
The property does not belong to the Beduin, and it is close to the planned route of the security barrier, should it be constructed in that area.
The judges rejected a claim by the Beduin that the land was in Area B of the West Bank, which is under the control of the Palestinian Authority.
They ruled that the property is Area C and that it would be impossible for the Beduin to legally construct homes there.
Supreme Court President Miriam Maor said, “We investigated the matter and it is clear that nothing will be built there.”
The state told the court that the Beduin wanted to relocate to improve their living conditions, but that the Palestinian Authority and others, including anarchists, had prevented them from doing so.
A spokesman for Regavim said, “The Palestinian Authority is more concerned with its strategic hold on the area than with the welfare of the Beduin.”
Bear Klein Said:
he gets it but every few months he arrives with the trolling agenda to defame Israel and indirectly, Jews…..
CuriousAmerican Said:
see, the shoe dropped to reveal the MO, as usual. He has no interest in arguments as he usually ignores the points and moves to another attack tangent. Didnt you notice how he kept completely ignoring your argument?
@ CuriousAmerican:
Actually you DO NOT GET IT the government is separate and independent from the COURT. The government is the ruling majority coalition in the KNESSET.
The Court ruled that what the government did was legal. They change things when they have a different legal opinion.
It is not a kangaroo court as you are implying. Your Bedouin buddies lost because they were not in the right legally. Sorry (not)! The court does not issue permits the government does. I understand you want Israeli judges (by the way there are Jewish & Arab judges in Israel) to stipulate they are a non legal entity providing political decisions only. One you are wrong as the right in Israel hates the court for all the decisions that go the way of the Arabs and Pals.
By the way in Gore versus Bush in the Presidential election did you also scream that the USA Supreme Court made a political decision in the ruling the Florida election which gave the Presidency to Bush ?
Wow. At least you admit it.
Courts have power. Their hands were not tied.
I am not faulting their decision as much I as faulting their explanation for it.
The Israeli Courts intervene all the time. So it was not “impossible.”
Again, I am not faulting the ruling, but the explanation is goobledygook.
CA – Granting the building permits to Jewish town by the government Maalah Adumin was political, demographic and expanding Israel. The court ruling was that the Bedouin had no building rights this was a legal ruling. The government could rule different and be called the Abbas government. No it is a Likud government so Jewish building of course if preferred to Arab building.
That said Arabs receive building permits unfortunately even in Area C where a whole new Arab City is being built “Rawabi” legally on Arab owned land. The Bedouin as usual building where they own nothing and then bitching about it when they get evicted.
see how I once more proved you to be a serial, chronic liar… always deceitfully presenting “evidence” to fool people like a sly crooked mongoose. I do this to you every time you come but you keep hoping to stumble on fool Jews.
CuriousAmerican Said:
60% of the maternal line was NOT european, your MO is transparent.
CuriousAmerican Said:
apparently more men went north than women, but you left out conversion… it also doesnt say much for your narrative on jews not mixing. when did matrilineal judaism begin that required conversion?
the arabs and the euros deserve the most horrific of fates… it is only that the Jews have been weak that they have not suffered their just due. However, we see today that the Jews are unnecessary to justice in the universe because the honor killers are slaughtering each other and have now gone to find the necks of those who hired them to kill the Jews. Perhaps its that blessing and curse thing… which appears to have not found you yet. Looks like it also found Brazil with the zika at the time of their olympics.
CuriousAmerican Said:
I dont care what you call it, but if ethnic cleansing troubles you then deal with the ethnic cleansing of the jews first.
@ CuriousAmerican:
we have no problem… you have a problem.
CuriousAmerican Said:
I said, you try to draw an equation… you know there is no equation but you repeatedly compare the head chopping honor killers MO with the MO of the Nobel Prize winners…. therefore, you cannot be taken seriously… you see no jews killing their children for honor, chopping heads, enslaving others, crucifying christians, slaughtering apostates, etc etc etc…. it is unbeleivable that you put that filth in the same sentence with cropping a photo… it shows what you are at your core…..CuriousAmerican Said:
demolished housing is the least of what I would like to see happen to those who teach their children we are sons of apes and pigs…. I was being too kind when i said they should be under supervision…. it is absurd to consider peace with such filth and everything short of a casket is too kind for such creatures. Every one of them that is dead is a possible Jewish life saved.CuriousAmerican Said:
if it were up to me they would be driven out because folks who teach their children that my child is a son of apes and pigs are existentially dangerous and should be understrict supervision or eliminated. Israel is nuts to deal with folks teaching those things and is daily paying for that folly with Jewish lives… best to develop bio wmd for self preservation.
Which should pose a problem since the Rabbis insist on a maternal descent for halacha.
Nonsense!
I do not care, at this point, if you drive the Palestinians into the desert; but please admit that it is ethnic cleansing when you do it.
CuriousAmerican Said:
I said, you try to draw an equation… you know there is no equation but you repeatedly compare the head chopping honor killers MO with the MO of the Nobel Prize winners…. therefore, you cannot be taken seriously… you see no jews killing their children for honor, chopping heads, enslaving others, crucifying christians, slaughtering apostates, etc etc etc…. it is unbeleivable that you put that filth in the same sentence with cropping a photo… it shows what you are at your core…..
CuriousAmerican Said:
no, you are what we used to call a sly mongoose. Unsurprisingly you pick one example of a field with many studies and today they are able to trace both parents lines in DNA. Your narrative is one of the fashionable narratives today among those trying to delegitimize Jews in Israel by saying they are not the original hebrews but euros and khazars. the other day I had a discussion on the same and found that your argument is used even when folks like you know that there is a great deal of additional evidence saying otherwise. I will not revisit the research I did recently but the conclusion was that almost all Jews have mideastern genes, that their euro genes are primarily of the southern euro variety as opposed to the northern euro variety and that that the patrilineal DNA shows much stronger links to the ME than your one study indicates for mitochondreal.
I only gave you this one which appeared first on google and I will not waste my time going back to find the other studies, which I beleive wikipedia also carries. Suffice it to say that your dishonest MO continues consistently and the fact that you choose this current fashion demonstrates that you are likely visiting the anti semitic sites for your info.
Still its moot, we prayed in hebrew with our children for thousands of years and many are now back, all your attempts are futile and transparent. I care not one iota for the filthy scum who teach their children that we are sons of apes and pigs and my belief is that the world would be better and more legitimate if every anti semite were DEAD! Your attempts to focus us on the filth that are daily knifing Jews puts you in the same category as the other defamers…. a man with an agenda….. pretending like a weasel to agree on some things so he can then send in an insulting defaming trojan horse in a scantily concealed form of sadism. Listen up, I would be happy if every one who beleive we are sons of apes and pigs would die a horrible death so you can feel confident that your tales of their feelings do not make me happy enough.
Nope! I said the Arabs were more brutal, which is not an equation. What I made was an observation.
Your distortion indicates your dishonesty.
Yeah! You can. Israel gives permits to Hilltop Youth Jewish settlers all the time. Often after the fact, by postdating the paperwork.
The judges were acting politically, not legally. Which may be okay, just admit to it,
I am aggravating you. So I have not flopped.
That is using your head.
Pray for a Cruz victory.
Maybe so, but bulldozing houses – and there are far more Arab houses bulldozed – because they built after permits were denied them, as they often are to Arabs – is unnecessarily aggravating them. Supervision should not be unnecessarily inflammatory.
Well, I am not inciting anyone; and I do not support BDS.
However, Israel does claim to be “the only democracy in the Mideast.”
Yet Israel control millions of Arabs in J&S, and controls the sea lanes and airspace of Gaza (hardly a real withdrawal). So Israel has control over millions of Arabs who have no say in the government which patrols their borders, collects their taxes, their import and export, controls the population registry, etc.
If you do not see that problem, you are being willfully evasive.
Look, all here.
I am not stupid.
I prefer an Israeli victory over an Arab victory.
However, I do not accept the Israel narrative.
Ze’ev Jabotinsky, the founder of right wing Zionism, honestly admitted that the Jewish people were taking over by force, against the democratic wishes of the natives, and was not surprised, nor sanctimoniously indignant, over Arab resistance.
Whether a return or not, Israel’s rebirth was an action of colonialism. It had that quality to it.
Palestine Jewish Colonization Society
Most colonization involves intermarriage. The is particularly true of Latin America where most of the populations are mestizo, mixed.
This was true of the Arab takeovers of North Africa, and the Holyland. There was no population switch. A Muslim elite took over and intermarried. The quantum of Arab (Peninsular) blood is probably low in the Palestinians Arabs, who, ironically, might have more Hebrew DNA than Saudi DNA in them. Islam installs an elite and pressures conversion among the natives by means of jizya taxation and dhimmitude for the recalcitrant.
A lot of those “Arabs” in Jerusalem may have no Peninsular Arab DNA in them at all, or if they do, very little. Probably many have some Jewish, Greek, Roman, Edomite, Samaritan, Christian, Ghassinad DNA as their spectrum.
Again, the Muslims colonized like the Spanish. The elite took over and imposed a culture, but the majority remained. Similar to Mexicans who claim to be Latin, when they have Aztec and Maya blood with no Spanish in them.
Alexander the Great ordered his troops to intermarry to faciliate Grecacization. Romans also. There is Greek DNA in the Holyland. Roman blood, too.
The Anglo takeover of America had less intermarriage and so the population remained whiter, but even there intermarriage occurred.
When the Jews came to the Holyland in the 1800s, they refused to intermarry. This does not go down well with the natives. Never did. It signals an imminent takeover.
You see it such insularity as typical. It is not; and it comes across as arrogant.
Even worse are recent DNA studies:
This must have been immediately obvious to the Arabs around 1900. Despite the non-Christianity of the Jews, they seemed as European invaders to them. And, after 1917, when the British IMPOSED the mandate against the wishes of the locals, it certainly seemed like a European invasion to the Arabs, backed up by European arms.
Remember than until 1949, the Sephardic/Yemeni component in Israel was relatively small compared to the Ashkenazi. It certainly looked like a European takeover to the locals.
This is why they resisted, and Jabotinsky knew it.
Also add in that Idumeans were forcibly converted into Judaism by the Hasmoneon Jewish John Hyracanus in the 2nd Century BC, and one has to wonder if many “Arabs” have more Hebrew DNA than some Israeli Jews.
So while I support Israel, I do not support the Israeli narrative, which is a bit self-serving.
I see this Mideast conflict as more a tragedy than black and white.
CuriousAmerican Said:
you always try to draw an equation between those who daily advance the world and those who slaughter. This is why I consider you a fundamentally dishonest person.
CuriousAmerican Said:
those who kill their children for honor and teach them that jews are sons of apes and pigs are dangerous lunatics who should be kept under supervision with little liberty. Those who incite them from europe and the BDS churches deserve to be slaughtered by the lunatics they incite.
@ CuriousAmerican:
you appear to have gone off on irrelevant tangents after your initial attempt flopped…. as usual.
CuriousAmerican Said:
in other words no building permits issued to Jews in A, B, Jordan or gaza…. and yet you harass jews.
Let’s examine that. Would you consent to Jews living unarmed in areas A&B like Arabs are unarmed under Israeli rule?
Amira Hass live in Area A.
The problem here … and you know it … is that Israel sees an Jewish settlement as any extension of Israeli sovereignty. The Arabs know that with Jewish settlement comes Israeli rule. This is not delusional. It is their recent historical experience.
So if they allowed Jewish settlement in areas A & B, they know full well that Israel would be back in lickity-split.
Do I think the Arabs are stupid in this?
Absolutely! They could frame Jewish settlement in such a way as to undercut Israeli claims to sovereignty.
Were the Arabs smart, they could offer, Israeli Jews can settle in A&B when Palestinian Arabs can settle in Haifa and Jaffa?
Do you seriously think Israel would accept that? It is the same kind of offer.
Both sides play this game.
Many here seem amazed that the Arabs resist.
Why?
The Arabs resist the Jews the very same way the Jews resisted the Romans.
The Sicarii (the Zealots) would knife people in the street. Sound familiar?!
The Romans were amazed … astounded! … that the Jews would continue to fight. Hadn’t the Romans superior force? Hadn’t the Romans set up an IRON WALL of Legionaires. Hadn’t the Romans brought a technologically superior culture with them?
Yet the Jews resisted, knifing Roman soldiers in the street. Killing civilians. Sound familiar?! Knifing soldiers and civilians!
VIDEO ABOUT THE SICARII (Knife wielders)
(VIDEO ABOUT THE SICARII)
The Arabs resist like you resisted the Romans. For the same reasons.
They terrorize civilians like the Irgun and Lehi did.
They hid weapons in mosques, like the Jews hid weapons under synagogues and Jewish schools.
VIDEO: WEAPONS HID IN GREAT SYNAGOGUE
(IRGUN WEAPONS IN GREAT SYNAGOGUE)
VIDEO: IRGUN ATTACKS CIVILIAN TRAIN
(IRGUN ATTACKS CIVILIAN TRAIN)
VIDEO: BRITISH EMBASSY IN ROME BOMBED BY IRGUN
(BRITISH EMBASSY IN ROME BOMBED BY IRGUN)
A British Embassy in Rome?! Why on earth would that qualify as a military target?!
First Century Jews saw the Romans as invaders, which is how the Arabs see you, today.
The Yishuv started coming back after 1800 years of exile. Mostly from Europe, bringing with them European civilization. The Jews had intermarried with the Euros. Some had blue eyes, a European trait. Most spoke Yiddish, a Germanic language. In 1917, the had the British – a European power – sign on to protect them against the natives, who at that time were Arabs.
Of course, the Arabs were going to see you as invaders, as Crusaders of a different stripe. They saw you as no different than whites colonizing America, and they were determined not to go down like the Apache.
Unlike the Apache, however, the Arabs are descended from Abraham; and so just as stubborn as you. They don’t quit so easily. You wanted a right of return … so do they?!
Are the Arabs crazy?! Vicious, violent!
Yes … so were the Sicarii (the Zealots).
I support Israel, but not the narrative.
What amazes me is how so many on this board fail to understand the humanity in the other side.
Jabotinsky, the founder of Right Wing Zionism, at least understood his opponent. He did not blame the Arab for fighting back. Jabotinsky knew it was only human.,
I despise Islam.
Yet, The Arabs fight for Al-Aqsa, the very same way Jews fought over the Roman desecrations against the Temple.
You are cousins, and the apple does not fall far from the tree.
Now I agree that Mohammed never set foot in Jerusalem, and so I see Al-Aqsa as a religious fraud; but they do not.
Many Jews saw Menachem Schneerson as truth, while I saw him as a fraud. We all hold beliefs others see as suspect. I know many of you see Jesus as a fraud, while I do not.
But did you seriously expect that you could return after 1800 years and not expect resistance. That is what amazes me.
You actually expected the Arabs to bow down to you.
The Arabs may be wrong but they are human, no less than you. Crazy – like the Sicarii – but still human.
Frankly, some – NOT ALL – of the criticism of the Arabs is of the same temper as criticism of the Jews in the first half of the 20th century.
If you cannot see the irony, the problem is not with me.
What will defeat Islam is their treatment of women and their nutty society; but they are human.
While nut as brutal as the Arabs, Hasidim crop women out of photos, so they are not wrapped too tight either.
CuriousAmerican Said:
try to focus… you cannot give permits to those who do not own the land…. the same obtains in Miami.
@ CuriousAmerican:
The Arabs have been offered to share the land since the 1930s numerous times they refuse and do not accept reality. So it is our presence not the borders that is the issue. You will say they view this as their land and the offers were not enough.
The Czechs and Slovaks agreed within one year to share the country that had been Czechoslovakia. They both accepted reality.
The Jews accepted that another people live in the Land of Israel and we have tried to accommodate this reality. The Palestinians refuse and so they suffer and some think they are just in fighting on and being the perpetual victim in their own eyes. They let their next generation have lots of dead and jailed youth in lieu of sending to a University of higher learning.
I suspect you are trying arouse the Jews as you do periodically with the arguments of the Arabs. Cleverly you have in a condescending manner quoted a Jabotinsky and referenced Herzel. This does not change the facts and we are still growing and not leaving.
Until we squash the Arabs ruthlessly and let them know that NO Palestinian State will ever arise the conflict will simmer. Once we squash them the hope will die and the conflict will die down eventually.
CuriousAmerican Said:
I looked through your posts and noticed that you again repeat your old tricks of never answering to points of argument… you come here… post ludicrous accusations… fraudulently pretend to seek dialogue and argument and then methodically and intentionally never answer to a single point. You quote an example of mine which was used to illustrate an argument but NOWHERE did you answer to or rebut my argument. this is why I always discount you as a dishonest person always up to some slimy and sneaky MO. Re read my arguments and answer the relevant points I made or dont expect to be treated like an honest and decent human being.
CuriousAmerican Said:
oslo was a ludicrous failure because the premise was wrong. therefore giving them one inch of territory was a mistake. Now the 40% given to them will have to be taken back in unnecessary war and them driven across the border to the new palestine after the stooge is deposed by anyone convenient.
I am convinced you have alzeheimers because you keep returning with the same ludicrous arguments every few months as if we all had not already dealt with every single one of your ludicrous and irrelevant arguments
Oslo is moot, it is unobserved, both side observe parts they want to observe… therefore the failed attempt forced on the Jews by the euros which cost many Jewish lives has no basis for existence because its foundation premise that they want peace is false. therefore, it is war, sometimes hot and sometimes cold… full of deception as war usually is. Whatever complaints you have about Israel and the Jews applies to the arabs…. therefore your whining is irrelevant as usual and moot.
The Jews tried to live in peace and were even willing to give them some of the Jewish homeland for peace, the arabs were given many chances including Oslo….. lets face it, the whole notion of peace with them is dead but everyone is still pretending it exists. No rational person would keep repeating the same error except the Jews are forced by the euros and christian BDS churches. Luckily the honor killers are now turning on their puppet masters and chopping not only their own heads but also those of the euros who fund their jew killing.
did you remember that I predicted that the muslims and IS would invade europe… you ignored my predictions and now look what is happening. Meanwhile the Euros and their BDS churches and leaders are frantically trying to double down on their jew stalking but I predict that it will be europe who will suffer mass dislocation and strife for decades. Hopefully, the honor killers chopping euro and BDS heads might distract that slime from stalking the Jews. That is why I say, as I did to you last year, that the solution is to send the pals to europe. The best way of accomplishing that is to expand the existing criminal smuggling networks to bring down the price as 50% want to go to europe but cant afford the current 10k to go. I am willing to contribute a few dollars to send them there because I relish the irony of the honor killers chopping the Jew stalkers heads. What about you, wont you contribute to that cause which satisfies them and Israel or are you still laughingly trying to con jews into spending hundreds of thousands to send them to you in south america so you can convert them?
Annexation while Obama is President presents dangerous to Israel.
A wise government would time annexation of say Area C or all the blocks when a friendly person is in the White House. That way Israel could prepare for the EU attacks together with a friend.
I am in favor of annexing but doing it wisely. Right now we would have a security council resolution passed against to no positive benefit. Israel still needs to come up with an Israeli Plan for the future and that is obvious.
Have you read Herzl?
Have you?
I have!
He wanted to “spirit” the Arabs out of the country.
I may be pro-Israel, but the Yishuv wanted to take over. I may despise the Pedophile Prophet, but a simple understanding of human nature indicated that most people do not happily accept other people taking over.
But if you doubt that – after all, I am a despicable goy – let me quote a right wing Zionist to you …
Jabotinsky was honest. You are not!
What did you expect them to do? Are you upset that the natives fought for the land of their birth. Who wouldn’t?
What arrogance to believe that they were obliged to roll over when the early Jewish settlers arrived!
I can criticize their methods of resistance [they are barbaric] but as Jabotinsky noted, everyone resists a take over.
You are upset that they have some spark of humanity, and did not roll over.
Read Jabotinsky, willya? I have.
Zoning is a political decision. If those were Jews, I bet some of them would be post-dated accepted.
I am not saying the judges were wrong. I am saying their hands were not tied, and their reason was gobbeldygook.
Name some examples.
How typical are they?
@ CuriousAmerican:Actual I know why the Arabs are upset they started in Jaffa about 100 years ago to try and get rid of us.
They have failed the Jews have built a strong country which is growing in all aspects (population, financially, technologically and they are getting weaker and so is their support system. They are drowning in their blood in the neighboring states. If they push too hard the same will happen.
If you are criticizing us for not being as being as ruthless and too humane in the conflict with our enemies we could discuss that but instead you use this circular debating technique that has no constructive value. Pay them to leave is what you will say next, no. That is what you are leading to.
Next Gaza War Plan. Day One instead of sending one or two fighter planes. Send a formation of 36 planes continually across the strip for 3 days and then send boats off the shore for them to leave (we will pay for the boats one way to Greenland).
Look, to be clear, I have no respect for Mohammad the child-molesting, bandit and murderer, NONE!
But much of Israel’s policy is passive aggressive.
If you want to ethnically cleanse the Arabs, then do so; but do NOT call it population exchange. It is ethnic cleansing.
The PA is corrupt; and frankly more useful to Israel than if it did not exist. The majority of Arabs in Judea and Samaria are probably secular PFLP or theocratic Hamas in sympathy. The PFLP was secular, tough, efficient, and – as far as Arabs go – relatively honest.
George Habash, who was born Orthodox Christian, was considered incorruptible. He retired on a small $300 a month pension, not like Abbas who draws millions in salary. Habash ran a violent group. Abbas is a bookkeeper. Complain about him all you like, Abbas is your man. Anybody else, who had one ounce of self-respect, would be much worse.
WHAT ABOUT THE INCITEMENT ABBAS ALLOWS ON PA TV?
If Abbas did not allow that, he would be overthrown and replaced by someone much worse.
The Arabs in Judea and Samaria are more radicalized than Abbas’ PA. Abbas has to throw them a bone … to vent on the airwaves.
ISRAEL COULD TAKE OVER!
Yes, Israel could take over. Declare the PA a renegade group and void Oslo. At that point, you have a considerable Arab intelligentsia would say … “If Israel deigns to take over, then we want a one-state solution, and the vote.”
That is what scares you. The Arab vote plus the looney left, would undo the Jewish state. At best you would get a secular Republic … which the world would applaud. So long Zionism.
At worst, the coalition would allow a right of return; and in short order you might have an Islamic Republic.
So the PA is your prat boy. Stop kvetching about it. It is the least problematic of all possibilities.
ISRAEL COULD DRIVE THEM ARABS INTO SYRIA, and LEBANON.
Okay. But call it ethnic cleansing when you do. Be honest. I am no fan of Islam, nor its pedophile prophet.
But expect Israel to become a pariah state, when it does evict the Arabs.
THE ARABS ARE NUTS
The Muslims are nuts. The Christians less so – and you know it.
You want the land, but not the Arabs on it. That is the problem. You chose to return to the Mideast, the insane asylum of planet earth. You cannot complain if the inmates are howling mad loud.
Herzl suggested Patagonia. Baron Maurice de Hirsch also recommended a province in Argentina (Entre Rios, more tropical than Patagonia), which unlike Palestine, truly was empty.
Around 1900, Argentina has only 6 million in an area the size of the Eastern USA. Most of those only around Buenos Aires. Argentina had provinces the size of Wyoming which were barely populated. Unlike Palestinian which had hundreds of thousands in 1900 in a small area.
(GREAT VIDEO)
(ANOTHER GREAT VIDEO)
Herzl recommended buying a province from Argentina. The Argentines would have sold them one. 3/4s of the country is empty, even today.
The rabbis scotched the ideas at the Zionist conference.
So you went back to the Mideast, the world’s psychiatric ward.
And now you are upset that the inmates are nutty. What did you expect?
Look, there is a biblical reason, I know; but the Arabs were/are there.
They have been there for centuries – some, for millenia. Many have a quantum of Jewish blood, like it or not.
But you do NOT want to enfranchise them.
You want the land.
You do not want the Arabs on the land you want.
You do not want to enfranchise them.
You want them to remain quiet and powerless.
Then you ask: Why are they upset?
In 1939, the Arabs offered you autonomy and the vote in an Arab Palestine. The Jews would not accept it. Why do you think the Arabs would now accept less from you, when J&S Arabs would be denied the vote in the government which controls their borders?
I do not really care what you do, but when you do it, be honest, do not use passive aggressive terminology..
Perhaps Israel, if it wants to exercise total control for the benefit of the Jewish people, should annex Area C.
Oslo screwed Israel; but it screwed the Arabs even worse. It gave the appearance of fairness to both sides, but Israel kept control of Area C (60% of the West Bank) under exclusive Israeli permit control.
Prior to Oslo, the world condemned Israel for building anywhere in the “contested areas,” or the “territories.”
Israeli negotiators made sure at Oslo that 60% of the area would remain under exclusive Israeli Military and Civilian control. This did not forbid Arab construction, but made the issuing of permits an Israeli perogative.
Prior to Oslo, the Israelis were hammered if they built anywhere at all in the “territories”, now – after Oslo – the Israelis say that Oslo gave them that right in Area C.
As bad as Oslo was for the Jewish people, it was even worse for the Arabs. Prior to Oslo, Israel had no accepted legal justification – at least in the world’s eyes – for building in the territories. After Oslo, Israel had cover, as it were, by saying they had leeway in Area C.
Israel made sure that Area C included all the choice parcels of real estate: The areas with Springs/aquifers (ARIEL), the Jordan Valley, etc.
The Arabs were left with Bantustans/reservations — broken off from each other — easy to isolate — incapable of any independence. A very limited autonomy at best, an autonomy that Israel intrudes on at will.
Militarily, it was a perfect plan, and it gave a veneer of legality to Israeli construction.
But nowhere did Oslo forbid Israel from issuing permits to Arabs. Israel just chooses not to. This is a political decision, not a legal one.
That is why the judges’ rationalization is goobledygook. Israel can go out of its way to post-date permits for Jewish construction in Area C, but will never do so for Arabs. That is a political policy.
I am not saying Oslo was good, but if you think it hurt Israel, it hurt the Arabs much worse — and Israel negotiators designed it that way, or they would not have signed on to it. In reality, Oslo was a stroke of genius. It gave the appearance of Israeli willingness to bargain, but made sure that the Israeli cards held all the aces. Israel gets to claim they were victimized by Oslo, when in actuality it was a stroke of genius.
It gave Israel many of the rights of de facto annexation without de jure annexation, thus avoiding the fire storm of world opinion.
But de facto is not de jure. Until de jure annexation occurs, the judges decision is goobledydook, based on policy not legal requirement.
If you want the land ANNEX IT.
But until you do, do not whine if I point out the obvious.
BTW: Israel is lucky that Arafat and Abbas were/are so corrupt. Honest Palestinian opponents would never have bargained away 60% of the “territories.” You have no idea how many times where I have read articles where Israeli leaders say that they cannot afford to lose Abbas. Of course not, he is their puppet.
Even the Arabs know it.
CHECK THIS IMAGE
https://desertpeace.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/latuff-abbas-settler.jpg?w=477&h=362
Be thankful you are only fighting Arabs!
As for Abbas, you scream about him allowing incitement, but never notice how he cracks down on Hamas for you. He is your puppet, as bad as he is. Anyone else – especially someone honest – would be a nightmare.
Be thankful you are only fighting Arabs!
I am not sticking up for the Arabs, just telling you the truth.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Actual you are the one talking in circles.
Oslo let 1000s of terrorists back to the Land of Israel. 1000s of Israelis died and more than 10,000 were injured. Yes Palestinians were also hurt by the kleptocracy of Arafat/Abbas and the rest of the gang from Tunis.
What hurts the Arabs the must is the refusal to accept the fact that the Jews are here to stay in the land of Israel. They should accept this. Prior to Oslo Arabs worked all over Israel including those from Gaza. Their economy was better. They just keep choosing war in lieu of reality.
Oslo in hindsight was a strategic mistake Peres conned Rabin into making. Many Israelis said okay let us give peace with our enemies a chance. In-spite of it was obvious none of the major issues were agreed (Jerusalem, Palestinian immigration or right of return to Israel). The Palestinians had agreed to be demilitarized but have since also reneged on this.
The Palestinians were given a chance to control of their lives. All they had to do was act peacefully. Rabin never offered them a state but something less than a state. They were never entitled to anything as the Land of Israel belongs to the Jews. It does not matter if you agree or not.
The Israeli Supreme Court made a legal decision base on law and facts.
CuriousAmerican Said:
why do you keep spreading lies? Israel issues permits to arabs in C.
CuriousAmerican Said:
you cannot give a permit to someone who does not own the land, that is law everywhere.
CuriousAmerican Said:
What did the PLO do in A & B and why are you not complaining that they are not building Jewish homes there and in gaza?
CuriousAmerican Said:
I would, and I would expel the arabs… but it is not up to me. Whether annexed or not prior law and treaties state that the vacant lands of C in YS are to be settled by Jews so why arent you complaining to the GOI about their restrictions on Jews living in the Jewish homeland of YS in violation of international law?
CuriousAmerican Said:
Israel does not give permits in C exclusively to Jews and even worse it allows illegal building of arab homes in C by euros in violation of the law. That is my concern not some bedouins who built illegal structures(maybe by the same EU), dont own the land they are on, attempted a criminal scam to defraud the court in order to have the land put in B. everything you say is always lies.
CuriousAmerican Said:
you appear to have ADD…. the claim of the arabs was that the land was in B and the court determined it was not. There is also nothing in Oslo which forbids giving gazans and jordanians permission to build in C also. You did not answer my question and continue to waste our time with fake sob stories… Are there Jews in A & B, gaza or Jordan? If not why are you not writing to them, why do you continue to stalk Jews, why should Jews allow folks who live in B to build in C… should Israel issue permits to those living in A & B to build in C? If Jews are restricted by the GOI from building in C why shouldn’t arabs also be restricted? There is not one shred of logic in your arguments… just one more demonstration of your timeless and worn whining about the Jews. They did not own the land, they falsely claimed the land was in B as a political move for the PLO, they built illegal structures… in none of this do you rebut the courts decisions and arguments… you just give your worthless opinion which has no basis at all.
Implied! Schmiplied!
It did not forbid Arabs getting construction permits. Israel just refuses to issue them. All it said was that Israel would control permits. In theory, Israel could give permits to Arabs to build. I am not holding my breath.
There was nothing stated that Israel would give permits exclusively to Jews. Israel chooses to act on that policy, but it is a political policy, not a legal requirement. Israel ambiguously worded Oslo knowing it could finagle the permits in C, but that finagling is political.
If you want the rights of annexation, then annex.
There is nothing in Oslo which forbids giving permits to Arabs in Area C.
Israel has yet to annex it, and so your claims of exclusivity are off-base. Until Israel annexes, the decision to treat Area C only as Jewish is a political one, without legal basis.
This is a political decision … and you know it … merely cloaked in legalese.
Whether the decision is right or wrong is another thing; but the wording is goobledygook. The decision was political, not legal.
@ Bear Klein:
unrelated but FYI our prior discussion:
I am skeptical when Oren reinforce leftist positions based on a need to separate due to foreign threats
CuriousAmerican Said:
didnt say arabs were not permitted… it implied that arab residents of a & b could not build in C and that the area was not B as claimed by the bedouin. Why are you trying to revise and twist their decision… arabs get permits in israel and in C but not arabs from a, b or jordan and gaza.
@ CuriousAmerican:
perhaps the bedouin who live in jordan should also get permits in C? Their structures are illegally built, they dont own the land they obviously reside in B or wouldnt be claiming it to be B. Perhaps they should get nothing but a boot up the butt and nothing for trying to front for the PA claiming that part of C is B?
@ CuriousAmerican:
@ CuriousAmerican:
so you beleive that Israel should give bedouin residents of A & B permits to build in C? why not also give them permits to build in Israel? If they are residents of A & B then that is where they must build… do you see Jews in a or B? MA will definitely be part of Israel but Abu dis might not….. they did not own the land, why should they build there?
@ CuriousAmerican:Judges speak in legal language! You may not like their way of delivering their decision or their decision. Israelis often do not like their decisions when they rule on behalf of Palestinians in their judgement.
The Area is zoned for Maalah Adumium. The Bedouin did not own the land they built on and lost their case which had no legal merit.
Next Case!
Doubletalk!
This is a political decision. There is nothing in Oslo, or Israeli law that forbids giving Arabs permits to build in Area C. All Area C did was place the permit decisions under Israel.
The wording is gobbledygook, meant to hide the truth, which is …
“We, the Israeli authorities, refuse to give permits to Bedouins in Area C.”
That being said … Do what you want! But do not use gobbledygook to hide your reasoning. It is NOT impossible; it judicial, legal fiat.
The ruling tries to make it sound like the judges hands were tied. No they were not. They are simply deciding against the Bedouins.
Which, again, may be their perogative, but admit it was a perogative. Do not hide behind legalese.
Nothing in Oslo forbids Israel from issuing permits to Arabs in Area C. Israel just choose not to.
This is not even criticism, just an observation.