Christian Zionists and Jews: Natural Allies

By Shelley Neese, Editor, The Jerusalem Connection

Interfaith Zionism is emerging a power-force in American politics as Zionist Christians and Jews are crossing the proverbial aisle to collaborate in support of Israel.

To outsiders, Jews and Christians seem strange bedfellows—Jews, traditional loyalists of the left and evangelical Christians, the conservative base of the right. Jews, persecuted by the church for centuries and Christians, tainted by a persecutor’s history. Jews who believe the Messiah has not yet come and Christians who believe the Messiah is Jesus who came once and will come again. Skeptics of this new Jewish-Christian alliance question its seemingly tenuous nature.

The common criticism is that Christian support of Israel is based on apocalyptic visions.

According to this argument, Christian Zionists care little about the welfare of Jews; they support Israel only to realize the scenario of Armageddon when all Jews die or convert. C. E. Carlson, a known critic of Christian Zionism, claims “Christian Zionism is the most blood thirsty apostasy in the entire history of Christianity or any other religion.”

Christian Zionists rejoice in the fulfillment of prophecy (i.e. the creation of Israel and return of the exiles). They do so with no hidden agenda to push Jews towards their doom. Christian Zionists’ support of Israel is motivated primarily by repentance, thankfulness to the Jewish people, and obedience to God’s word, three sincere motives that expose the “Jewish heart” of Christian Zionists.

Rabbi Irving Greenberg, a pioneer in Jewish-Christian dialogue, once remarked that he did not care what religion or denomination you belonged to, as long as you were embarrassed about it. Christians have plenty to be embarrassed about. For nearly 2,000 years Christians made a habit out of affirming Christianity by negating Judaism.

Anti-Semitism started early in the church out of a desire to separate Christianity from Judaism. As the Roman Church gained power this desire for distinction evolved into oppression. At best Jews were forcefully converted; at worst they were burned at the stake.

Persecution of Jews was justified on the erroneous Christian teachings that blamed the Jews for the death of Jesus. According to the anti-semitic theology of the day, God revoked His covenants with Israel because of Jews’ rejection of the Messiah and therefore the church replaced Israel as benefactor of God’s promises.

These Christian teachings of contempt fed the fires of anti-Semitism for centuries, making possible the crusades, inquisitions, and pogroms. It took the horrors of the Holocaust to finally bring Christians to their knees, transforming minds and hearts.

In spiritual humility, Christian Zionists repent of past sins committed against the Jewish people. They have started a revolution to erase anti-Semitism in the church by correcting erroneous teachings. The Gospel is an instrument of love, not hate. By standing in support of Israel today, Christian Zionists aim to turn afflictions of the past into blessings of the present.

Old accusations of Jews being Christ-killers have given way to thanksgiving to Jews for the Bible, Mosaic Law, and Jesus Christ. Pro-Israel Christians also want to repay the Jewish people for passing down the fundamentals of the Christian faith. Jesus, born a Jew, lived an observant Jewish life. According to the New Testament, Jesus kept the Sabbath and celebrated Jewish feasts and festivals. The prophets, patriarchs, and apostles were all Jewish; John Hagee, national chairman of Christians United for Israel, always quips “there wasn’t a Baptist in the bunch.” Paul, another observant Jew, notes the importance of Christians recognizing their roots: “you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others (Abraham’s seed) and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root (Abraham’s faith), do not boast over the branches…You do not support the root, but the root supports you” (Romans 11:17-18).

Fundamental Christian sacraments such as communion and baptism are Jewish in origin. For Christians, understanding Judaism and its connection to Christianity makes the words and purpose of Jesus all the richer. Loving the Jewish people out of thankfulness is not a theological stance but a moral one, because without Judaism there would be no Christianity.
More important than all of these, Christian Zionists are obedient to their biblical responsibility toward the Jewish people. Genesis 12:3 is the cornerstone of Christian Zionism: “I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse those who curse you.” Isaiah 40:1-2 is its call to action: “Comfort, comfort my people…speak tenderly to Jerusalem” (Isaiah 40:1-2). The commands to bless and comfort Israel are given to all peoples but, according to Paul, Christians have additional obligations: “For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings” (Romans 15:27).

Christian Zionists obey the scriptures using their pocketbooks, prayer, and political power. In October 2006 at the Night to Honor Israel in San Antonio, Texas, Christians United for Israel (CUFI) donated 7 million to Jewish humanitarian causes. Each year Christian Zionists give millions of dollars to help Diaspora Jews make Aliya. Thousands of Christian intercessory prayer groups meet regularly to pray for Israel, heeding the command: “You who call on the Lord, give yourselves no rest, and give Him no rest till He establishes Jerusalem and makes her the praise of the earth” (Isaiah 62:6-7).

Christian Zionists also possess power in their numbers. While Israel is facing enemies that openly aspire to its destruction, Christian Zionists use their political voice to ensure Washington stays true to Israel. This past July, 3,000 Christians converged in Washington to lobby their senators and congressmen on pro-Israel legislation. Christian Zionists believe the command to bless Israel is God’s foreign policy statement. Their message: If America is to continue receiving blessings, it must continue to bless Israel.

Christian Zionists wear no mask. They harbor no ulterior motives; they are not war-mongers or cultists. The worst they can be accused of is being philo-semitic, too fervent in their religiosity, or taking the Bible too literally. Ambiguity in Interfaith Zionism is unnecessary. Jews and Christians do not have to get bogged down on every domestic political issue or religious belief in order to be partners in a powerful coalition. They have only to agree on the point of collaboration: Israel. In that respect, Christians and Jews are natural allies as they confront anti-Semitism, challenge radical Islam, and support Israel’s fight against terror.

January 24, 2007 | 26 Comments »

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26 Comments / 26 Comments

  1. Bill,

    There still are really bad Jew-haters who call themselves Christians, not just a few but many (I can think of dozens of such websites), just that they are not too accepted by the larger Christian community that pretends they don’t exist or considers them heretical–even though some Christian TV stations and regular TV stations actually broadcast “Christian” (falsely so-called) shows by groups that teach the Jews are subhuman and the seed of sex between Cain and Eve. One show I know of has about 300 stations nationwide, and there’s even an audio clip on the internet of the pastor pulling out a 9mm on a heckler, yet nonChristian stations sell him air time (at least with this guy the Christian stations don’t).

    Then there are the nonviolent replacement theology mainline denominations that indirectly cause or aid violence against Israel, through their anti-Israel political voice based on bad theology.

  2. to yoram,

    Hi, just noticed your comment #23 asking Ted if he can give you proofs to back up his statement (I’m guessing you mean his comment #22 about knowing Christian Zionists of goodwill). Well, I’m a Christian Zionist and guarantee you I’ve got goodwill towards Jews and Israel, but for “organizations” that I’d recommend as being of utmost goodwill, above all I recommend: Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry (http://foigm.org), which has been supporting Israel and Zionism at least since 1948–no scandals, on good terms with Jewish leaders, etc. There is one pastor in Jerusalem who’s affiliated with them, Meno Kalisher who pastors Jerusalem Assembly. You can reach him by email at his website (http://jerusalemassembly.com), but be warned the “gospel” is presented there, it is a Christian site. And you are correct about “missionizing” IF the word is defined as sharing the gospel, we do it, but it’s not at all like imposing, hidden agendas, pestering, coerced conversions, etc, though I understand historically others in the name of “Christ” have commited the most atrocious, stealing Jewish kids to raise as Christians, forced baptisms, convert or die, etc. One of the FOIGM leaders wrote a great book, The Zion Connection (by Elwood McQuaid) that I think is mutually healing and clears up misunderstandings and misperceptions on both sides. Also FOIGM will send you a free magazine subscription to their award winning Israel My Glory–and YES, it definitely talks about Jesus, but it’s focused on Israel, Zionism. If you contact any of these people and say you don’t want to hear about Jesus, but want to talk about Israel or whatever, they will respect that no problem. Best – ER

  3. mennyiben….so u still think I was rude for calling yoram a clown, but u do not think anything that he wrote accusing all christians of being idolaters,pagans,wanting to kill all Jews was rude….a Jew should choose death instead of entering a christian church which is pagan but for a Jew to enter and pray in a mosque is not idolatry and just fine by him…aha right, now I understand…thanks for clarifying ur view for me….look, this yoram character is not only a bigot who hates all christians,but is a proven LIAR who has lied repeatedly about christian zionists/evangelicals on this site….anyone who lies over and over again on this site and accuses all evangelical christians of wanting to kill Jews, I will not hesitate to call a clown/idiot or dumb+ignorant (take your pick)….like I said earlier I make no apologies or have regrets for calling him a clown and being dumb+ignorant when he jhas repeatedly benn exposed as such…if u think such views of his of all christians and his repeated proven lies here about them (see Ted’s comments #22, #24 where even Ted proves him a liar), if u think yoram being an incorrigible liar is just fine with u, that’s ur prerogative and ur opinion….u are entitled to it…but when someone repeatedly makes false accusations and lies against an entire body of people [christian zionists/evangelicals]by saying they want to kill Jews and other such insane nonsense I will call him a clown….period.

  4. I am also against NOT FORCED assimilation, and IT AS A FACT that ALL Zionist x-tians undertake missionarism in Israel.

    Yoram, Maybe you don’t want a free society. Maybe what you envision is a theocracy or totalitarian state but at what point do you start becoming like the Taliban? If you are going to have a free society it means that you must allow SOME things that you don’t agree with. Now a free society need not allow coercion, but if by “NOT FORCED” you mean that people cannot make choices for themselves then there are going to be some big problems in such a society.

    Considering all of the divers beliefs that Israelis hold including secular, how many Israelis meet your standard for faith in Hashem? You don’t have to agree with others, you don’t have to like what others believe, but you must be careful where boundaries are drawn or you will find your circle becoming smaller and smaller until you are all alone by yourself.

    I am not suggesting there are no boundaries, but I am saying that you need to do some thinking and adjust yours somewhat.

    Don’t demand that everybody be right about everything they believe, if you do, you are wrong in what you believe. If peoples hearts are in the right place and they are doing good, suffer their misconceptions for it is likely that such people already suffer yours.

  5. Teshuvah, (can’t type much, had hand surgery), but your comment (#9) said that my use of “we” was speaking for “all Christians”, but look again at my comment, I identified myself more narrowly, as a Christian “fundamentalist,” and was referring to this particular group alone, since we are the ones wrongly accused by people like Stan Goodenough, whom you mention, of believing in some idea of bringing in Armageddon. I was not referring to all Christians. And yes, I’ve read the Stan Good enough articles and comments by “Pre-Tribbers”–I am one myself, so obviously I don’t think we are deceived, but respect your right to believe that, though it’s one thing to correctly state what we believe and consider it error (fine) and another thing to misrepresent what we believe with a strawman and say its error (which we would too, since it’s not what we believe). To understand what exactly we pre-Trib fundamentalists believe about the end times, the best book I know of for detailed explanation of whats and whys from scripture is “Maranatha” by Renald Showers. – ER

  6. #22

    Ted,

    can you give proofs for your statment, cite me x-tian Zionist organisations that do not undertake missions in Israel, I will contact them personally since I’m living in Yerushalayim and I will ask them peronally to declare officially that they do not undertake to mission on Jews and that they declare officially that missionarism is defended by their faith, just as it is defended by the Torah. If you give me names I shall ask informations on them at “Yad LeAhim” the main Jewish organisation that saves Jews from x-tian missioners and arab rape in Galil vilages (by the way, the Israeli government does nothing against it, on the contrary, and the Bagats-Judges of the so called “High Court for Justice” [what a lough] declared several times that Jews have to convert to x-tianism and Islam in order to instore “parity” of religions in Israel)

  7. Yoram

    You are being pig headed. (pardon the expression)My comment #2 is factual.I know many Christian Zionists and can attest to their goodwill.

    ALL Zionist x-tians undertake missionarism in Israel. That’s a fact.

    Sorry but that’s a lie. Get over yourself.

  8. #21

    So yoram doesn’t like Christians (hates, maybe). He is right about forced assimilation.

    I am also against NOT FORCED assimilation, and IT AS A FACT that ALL Zionist x-tians undertake missionarism in Israel. That’s a fact. Sorry if I offensed somebody by saying this, it is not my intention to offense, but it is simply true, and x-tian missionarism is a BIG DANGER for the survival of Jewish people.

  9. shlomo, I appreciate your defending Christians, I would love to think that yoram might not distrust us all some day, but still think you were rude about it. (particularly where you said: you are so dumb+ignorant” and calling someone a “clown”?)

    You posted what yoram wrote before and I disagree with most of what he believes. I’m saddened about the part about churches vs. mosques which would blame anusim for surviving. I can name a lot of idolatries in Islam! Just because they don’t draw images?! Let’s start with they idolize their hatred of Jews, that’s one of their idols. Yikes! Misogyny is another of Islam’s idols, it’s a matter of pride, then there are plenty of symbols if we want to go there.

    Still I don’t get upset with someone feeling theological superior because everybody feels their beliefs are the true ones and that others are on the wrong path. That includes the atheists. Like Bob Dylan sang, “you gotta serve somebody.”

    I don’t want my children to marry outside of their faith either (same as yoram), so most people would call me a religious bigot too. It’s the Moslems and the communists who want to outlaw and persecute other points of view. So yoram doesn’t like Christians (hates, maybe). He is right about forced assimilation.

    He thinks my beliefs are absurd, I think some of his are too. I try not to take it personally.

  10. To Bill Levinson: The Bible from beginning to end says that G-d ***IS*** knowable, not unknowable as you say. Look.

    Da 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: ***but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.***

    Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, ***that they might know thee*** the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that **we know him,** **if** we keep his commandments.

    Those who believe the Bible, whether Jew or Christian, stand side by side and agree that G-d is knowable. In 1 Jo 2:3 above, those who do not keep His commandments don’t know him. They are Antinomians, [a-nomos = against the Law] lawless ones to whom He will say, ***”I never knew you.”*** Matt 7:21-23. Unfortunately since 1700, that includes most of Christendom and they got that way by following false prophets and false teachers rather than adhering to the Bible.


    Tolerance is a tool for transformational Marxism.
    Ecumenism and Consensus are globalist propaganda tools to deceive. They are tools of the Catholics as well as the Muslims. The Bible calls it the ‘broad way to destruction.” Something like the Roadmap. It is “the snare of the fowler” laid in plain sight. While many lovely people are Catholics, they know not what they worship. The Catholic hierarchy is not Christian, never has been and has murdered true Jews and Christians for millennia. Both Catholics and Muslims use prayer beads and dress their women in black. The Pope prays with Muslims in a mosque so has converted to Islam. Walks like a duck, talks like a duck. It is one.

    When so-called Christians depart the faith by not obeying G-d and are given over to believe the lie of ecumenism, they are of their father the Devil, and are false brethren. Then I dust off my feet and get away from them and stand with the religious Jews whom I do not attempt to convert. If G-d wants anyone converted, He will do it Himself in His time. He is not going to convert Jews into becoming apostate Christians. There can be two trees standing in one forest and they don’t have to be identical. They are still one together in a forest, standing side by side. I’ve been persecuted by a community mix of heathen, Catholics and apostate Christians (the latter who embraced the Pre-Tribulation rapture cult theory and Once Saved~Always Saved) and I have strong feelings on the subject. I scraped the hypocrisy from my feet and left. Someone said, “You just have to forgive them,” ignoring that G-d only forgives the repentant and consensus driven fools never repent. They just demand tolerance for their wickedness.

    The ungodly always attack the godly. The ungodly want the godly to lower their standards of holiness and become tolerant. It was not a matter of saying anything to them, but just being in their presence holding to a standard of holiness that offended them. Sort of like being Jewish. Hated without a cause.

    Lukewarm believers whether Christian or Jew are a danger to true believers. The apostle Paul called this danger “perils of false brethren.”

  11. If anybody really wants to know the way that Christian and Jewish relations should be they just need read an exchange of two letters between a devout Christian and a Rabbi.

    The first letter was from Rabbi Moses Seixas to George Washington after Washington’s visit to the Hebrew Congregation of Touro Synagogue in Newport Rhode Island.

    The second letter is Washington’s reply to the Rabbi and the congregation.

    If there is a historical example of the perfect relationship between Christians and Jews it is exemplified in the contents of these letters. The relationship was not based on tolerance but upon acceptance, yet with the freedom of conscience to each one’s different beliefs. There obviously was a foundation of share values that were a common ground. This is the foundation Jews and Christians should build their relations on today.

  12. mennyiben,thats funny that u say that I am ‘rude’ but u obviously do not think anything yoram has written here is ‘rude’. how strange! so what does that imply? are u in agreement with him since u dont even utter a peep of rightly deserved condemnation or call him rude for the horrible things he has said about all christians? no, nobody has ever said that I am rude on Israpundit or anywhere else for that matter,because I am normally not inclined to call anybody a clown under normal circumstances….I dont normally use the word “clown” or “idiot” to any normal sane decent person….but this yoram is not sane, nor is he normal nor is he decent…..I only respond in kind. mennyiben, much of what u say about certain christian denominations in the usa has truth to it but that does not give this yoram idiot a ‘carte blanche’ to attack, denigrate, insult, vilify,incite hatred against and vile contempt for and grievously offend all our christian friends here on Israpundit…… besides, when someone keeps repeating the same inflammatory, provocative,racist,bigoted,intolerant, burning hatred and vicious lies and pretends he is morlly superior to everybody else like some kind of kkk white supremacist or nazi fruitcake while everybody else to him is inferior, I will pull no punches and call him a clown…..which is what this yoram idiot rightly deserved to be called for what he said…he has no right to call all christian ppl idolaters,pagans,enemies of Jews, christian ppl have no chance at the afterlife, the only good nation is the Jewish one, christians want to kill all Jews,it is forbidden to eat in a christian’s house or marry a christian… etc., merely coz they r christian!… I make no apologies for my calling him a clown/idiot nor do I have any regrets for calling him a clown/idiot..if u imply that u approve of what he says by not protesting it and calling his comments ‘rude’, then u are just as wrong and misguided as he is…..(I fervently pray this is not the case here) [in case u hadn’t noticed the editor of this site has removed all of his worst comments here,so I think I am right about yoram’s idiocy and in good company…..]

    here is just a small sample of what insanity filled anti-christian hatred he wrote b4 u came on here in case u missed it b4 it was removed:

    shlomo baum hero,

    you asked me from your Australian exile (if I recognised the flagg) to give you Jewish sources for my position, that x-tianity is idolatry.

    1. Even without sources, just by intelligence and discriminate observation, you can already recognise it. The x-tian catechismus enumerates the “Ten Commendments” (Asereth HaDibbroth – the ten words or assertions or speaches) in the manner that the second commendment is simply eliminated, and this is exactly the one that concerns the interdiction of idolatry, e.g. to make idols of wood stone etc. Hm. Have you ever seen pictures from a church, especially an orthodox one ? it is FULL of idols made of wood and stone etc. Hm.

    2. — The first and most important of all Jewish commendments is to believe that G”d is one. — x-tians believe that their god is triple.

    Rambam (Maimonides) write in “Moreh Nevukhim” (3:15) that G”d although Almighty CANNOT be something which is logically contrary to His being, e.g. He cannot be finite or have an emplacement or divide Himself into three.

    Judaism is conform to logic since logic is one of the tools G”d gave to men in order to recognise Him, so e.g. our forfather Avraham came by logical and scientific research to the existence of One G”d.

    Contrary to this, x-tians believe precisely in what is contrary to every logic and they are proud of it :

    “Credo quia absurdum est” (I believe BECAUSE it is absurd !!!)
    and
    “Natus est Dei Filius; non pudet, quia pudendum est: et mortuus est Dei Filius; prorsus credible est, quia ineptum est: et sepultus resurrexit; certum est, quia impossibile” [Tertullian’s “De Carne Christi”] (trabslation : The Son of God was born: there is no shame, BECAUSE it is shameful. And the Son of God died: it is wholly credible, BECAUSE it is inappropriate. And, buried, He rose again: it is certain, BECAUSE impossible), and x-tians were ready to burn people if they insist on logic, e.g. Jews.

    So x-tians believe that G”d is triple and while the MAIN PURPOSE of Judaism is to spread the knowlodge of the fact that G”d is ONE, “Shema Yisrael ‘’ Eloqenu ‘’ Ehad” (SOURCES : (a) Emunoth VeDeoth 2:5-7, (b) Iggereth Thehiyath HaMethim, (c) Moreh Nevukhim 1:50, (d) Theshuvoth Meil Tsedaqah 22, (e) Theshuvoth Sha’ar Efrayim 24, (f) Hatham Sofer Al Ora’h Hayyim 156:1). Where is the meeting point, tell me !?

    3. It is strictly forbidden for a Jew to enter a chruch (Shulhan Arukh, Yoreh De’ah 149:1), during a messe or not, a chruch transformed into a museum is also strictly forbidden, and Rabbi Yosef Karo (the author of Shulhan Arukh) is uncertain if a person can be allowed to enter a curch in order to save his life, many Jewish authorities decided that even in order to save one’s life it is forbidden to enter a church, a Jew has to chose death rather than to enter a church.

    Contrary to this, it is even allowed to pray in a mosque, since Islam — although a lie —is not idolatry.

    This is the point of Judaism. If you now claim that the fundament of Judaism is insulting for x-tianity, and if you derive from this that people who follow Judaism have to be compared to goebbels (as I have been compared on this site for telling the authentic point of Judaism), then YOU are in the tradition of Isabella from Spain.

    If you and Ted Belman and many others on this x-tiano-phil site find my assertions about x-tians and especially orthodox x-tians insulting (and only a lie could be an insult in this context) “not only for our friedns the Christians but also for Judaism”, then I suppose you are able to demonstrate this your position by citations from Judaism, the Tora, the Talmud or any Rabbinic litarature. I for my side, I can give you converging Jewish sources for every single of my statements, since there is simply NO DISSENCE about this question. ALL Hahamim are in complete agreement that x-tianity is idolatry and that it is strictly forbidden to enter a church as it is, of course, forbidden even to have a meal in a x-tians house, and here the people on this site are even married to x-tians and pretend to represent the “real” Judaism while I am completely isolated and don’t represent Judaism. This your impression, Peter and Ted, comes from the fact that you simply neither believe in the G”d of Israel nor observe His commendments nor have ever studied Judaism in an orthodox Yeshiva. So what an “authority” are you.

    It is a fact, that we have to thank the resteblishment of our statehood only to the G”d of Israel and certainly not to x-tian statesmen. Those who believe the opposite – their chidren will already believe that our land is born in sin. This is a fact, too, since the children of those who helped esteblish the State of the Jews and then studied at the Hebrew University and became fellows of Martin Buber and Hannah Arendt are today in Shalom Akhshaw, BeTselem, Yesh Gevul, Avodah or Kadimah. How do you explaine the syndroms Tsiporah Livni and Ehud Olmert ?

    Yoram Hadad
    Yerushalayim

    Comment by yoram — February 5, 2007 @ 8:07 am

    1. x-tianity is idolatry, and this is the cause of all evils

    2. x-tians that support Israel do this because they believe that we shall convert to their absurd belief, and of course this is the last thing that we shall do.

    And amother thing : We Jews came back to our land because we were loyal to our G”d for 19 centuries, and when we were at the point to be completely assimilated by x-tians, then G”d dicided to bring to an end the “hospitality” of x-tian countries and to bring us back to OUR country, thus saving us from x-tian terror.

    For this event, the State of Israel, we have to thank ONLY our G”d – and certainly no one of the x-tian “kings”, ans so I think that x-tian support for Israel is a good thing for the x-tians (since it can help them – may be – to get a place in the Word to Come), but for us Jews it is simply irrelevant.

    Yoram Hadad
    Yerushalayim

    Comment Posted By yoram On 03.02.2007 @ 18:08

    Christians are idolaters, i.e. the kind of man who are opposed to us, the Jews.

    And Christians are not our friends, they only do what seems good for them.

    There is not only no possibility of collaboration with the Christians, but there is simply NO NEED.

    We have to believe to our G”d and to have faith to Him and to be solidary between us.

    Comment Posted By yoram On 24.10.2006 @ 13:38

    Christians are first of all IDOLATRES !!!

    And THIS is the WORST from our JEWISH point of view.

    It is FORBIDDEN to collaborate with idolatres and it is even more forbidden to hope that those idolatres will help us.

    ONLY the G”d of ISRAEL will help us, nobody else.

    Comment Posted By yoram On 24.10.2006 @ 13:34

    Shalom Ted !

    ‘We see Israelis as our spiritual mothers and fathers.’

    So why do Christians say to their “parents” that they are lying, since the new testament contradicts the Tora completely !

    ‘We love your God, Israel’

    If so, so why do the Christians say that our G”d were wrong, since the new testament is saying exactly this !

    ‘Evangelical Christians around the world are the greatest friends Israel has.’

    Yeah, yeah ! The “friend” that helps you in need, and then menaces to kill you if you won’t do what he wants…

    Our best friend is G”d and we !!!

    Comment Posted By yoram On 25.10.2006 @ 01:46

    Your right ! But the question is : is the Western civilisation worth being saved ? I think what happens to the West is what happend to all its predecessors, it is the immanent end of a decadency.

    The only civilisation that will survive is the Jewish, since it is the only good one.

    Yoram from the Holy City of David the King

    Comment Posted By yoram On 13.01.2007 @ 16:17

  13. schlomo, as a Christian, I have to sadly recognize that yoram has concerns based on true events, past and present. If it were up to me, I’d deport so many Gentiles out of Israel (and some Jews too I might add). I have thought to myself more than once, that if I were Jewish, I might have a hard time thinking Gentiles could come with anything sincere. Just look at history.

    I’m not trying to be popular here (or win friends and influence people LOL). I’m not trying to say what I think someone wants to hear. The fact that I feel I should say that is because I am so tired of the apostasy and hypocrisy going on in the churches. Either you have the liberal churches denouncing Israel or you have the conservative ones’ mouthpieces cheering for Israel with one side of their mouth and then with the other side of their mouth, inviting PLO creeps and Muslim royal family members on their tv shows (TBN).

    I think of a lot of Gentile groups as “Muslim Lite”. The most vocal and powerful and rich groups calling themselves Christians are the Catholic church which has a history and a present, and dominionists who are responsible for much of this rapture-armageddon cult. I don’t even know why they bother missionizing since they believe in predestination. Then we have the Jehovah’s Witnesses who are not considered Christians by any Christian group I know. I understand they think it is all right to missionize in Israel by deceit. They’d be the first ones I’d deport. Even if I don’t agree with yoram on a lot of what he says, he is concerned for the fate of the Jewish people.

    And also, schlomo, has anybody ever told you that you are really rude!

  14. shlomo baum hero,

    you wrote:

    u are a blind bigoted fanatical clown who thinks he has to prove being a true Jew

    Before the 18th century these stereotypes against Jews and Judaism were a privilege of x-tian anti-Semites.

    But then Rousseau wrote his “social contract” and Napoleon spread the idea of “humanism” into whole Europe. So x-tian “politically correct thinking” took new clothes and became continuously the new-old Western religion. Discrimination of Jews was no longer allowed since inhuman. Therefore, the Jews were given by France and Germany (and later on by all x-tian counries allover Europe) the alternative :

    – to assimilate by abondonning the “inhuman” parts of their archaic belief and to be compensated by becoming formal citizens (while they were still allowed to practice their “tradition” in their homes without offensing nobody…)
    OR to emigrate.

    As result, the Jewish masses, broken by centuries of x-tian progroms, gave up and assimilated, more than the half converted to the “faith of love”. A minority enclosed themselves into a new ghetto, but renounced little by little on the national character of Judaism (in Germany they named their communities : “israelitische Kultusgemeinde”).

    Those who assimilated, they had still to prove again and again to be loyal and devoted citizens. So they joined together with their new x-tian compatriots the new-old choir singing how oldfashonned Orthodox Jews are and how inhuman some or most of their archaic beliefs.

    Nothing new under the sun. The main danger for assimilated Jews are those Jews who may compromise your stay in x-tian exile. However, your better than most of those assimilated Jews, since you seem to support Israel really. But if you were GEVER you would come to Israel. But like this, your loyality to x-tians makes you hate and disavow all parts of Judaism that x-tians regard as offensive.

    Yoram Hadad
    Yerushalayim

  15. shlomo baum hero,

    you wrote:

    u are a blind bigoted fanatical clown who thinks he has to prove being a true Jew

    Before the 18th century these stereotypes against Jews and Judaism were a privilege of x-tian anti-Semites.

    But then Rousseau wrote his “social contract” and Napoleon spread the idea of “humanism” into whole Europe. So x-tian “politically correct thinking” took new clothes and became continuously the new-old Western religion. Discrimination of Jews was no longer allowed since inhuman. Therefore, the Jews were given by France and Germany (and later on by all x-tian counries allover Europe) the alternative :

    – to assimilate by abondonning the “inhuman” parts of their archaic belief and to be compensated by becoming formal citizens (while they were still allowed to practice their “tradition” in their homes without offensing nobody…)
    OR to emigrate.

    As result, the Jewish masses, broken by centuries of x-tian progroms, gave up and assimilated, more than the half converted to the “faith of love”. A minority enclosed themselves into a new ghetto, but renounced little by little on the national character of Judaism (in Germany they named their communities : “israelitische Kultusgemeinde”).

    Those who assimilated, they had still to prove again and again to be loyal and devoted citizens. So they joined together with their new x-tian compatriots the new-old choir singing how oldfashonned Orthodox Jews are and how inhuman some or most of their archaic beliefs.

    Nothing new under the sun. The main danger for assimilated Jews are those Jews who may compromise your stay in x-tian exile. However, your better than most of those assimilated Jews, since you seem to support Israel really. But if you were GEVER you would come to Israel. But like this, your loyality to x-tians makes you hate and disavow all parts of Judaism that x-tians regard as offensive.

    יורם חדד
    ירושלים

  16. shlomo baum hero,

    u are a blind bigoted fanatical clown who thinks he has to prove being a true Jew

    this is what not-assimilated Jews were attributed by the x-tians until the 18the century by the x-tians. From the 18the century on, when Rousseau’s “humanism” rose and finally became the new western religion, Jews were given two possibilities : assimilate and become formal citizens or emigrate. As a result, more than 50% of French and German Jews assimilated, and a considerable number converted to x-tianity. Since that day, those who assimilated and become formal citizens had to prove to be loyal citizens, and so they all joined their x-tian compatriots in the old choir singing now together how oldfashoned orthodox Jews are and how inhuman their views. Only : do you recognise the frappant similarity in your stereotypes and the new testament ?

    יורם חדד
    ירושלים

  17. yoram,so you live in Israel and have read the Torah. big deal! that somehow makes u the only real genuine Jew here? dont make me split my guts from a too intense guffaw; the only reason why u think this is a christian site is coz u are a blind bigoted fanatical clown who thinks he has to prove being a true Jew is to hate all christians coz u think they are all idolaters and pagans and all our enemies….u are so dumb+ignorant…i am so thankful to G^d not all Jews are like u…

  18. this site is most evidently a x-tian site.

    I wonder if anybody here has red in the Tora or e.g. in Rambam.

    So I really don’t wonder that NOBODY of the people that are posting here is livving in ISRAEL !

    I am.

    Yoram Hadad
    מציון תצא תורה ודבר ×”’ מירושלים

  19. soren: In light of your statement that “we believe there will be an Armageddon and that 2/3 of Jews (this is specified in the HEBREW scriptures, Zechariah) will die and at least as many Gentiles (when one does the calculations)…” please read the links below by Stan Goodenough, a Christian Zionist resident of Jerusalem.

    Your statement does not speak for all Christians (“we”) and certainly not me and is exactly the statement that is so offensive to the Jews. Would G-d bring them out in the desert to leave them? Would he bring them home to the land to kill them? That is nonsense.

    “I do not believe for a moment that God has brought you back to see you mass-murdered in your own land.

    “To the contrary, He says repeatedly through the prophets that when He returns you from exile – for the third and final time, which this is – it will be to do you good. Your very return is a sign that your time of trouble as a nation is ending. He calls the Diaspora “captivity.” Your restoration to Eretz Yisrael spells the end of that captivity ergo: your freedom!

    “During the tribulation of the past 2000-plus years, Israel has surely received from the Lord’s hands ‘double for all her sins.’ But now, God has a wonderful future in store for you. He has brought you back home to bless you. And in your blessing, all of the nations of the world will be blessed.” – Stan Goodenough.

    The first is a good rundown on many of the false things many Christians believe about Israel.
    The End Times – what I don’t believe – http://www.stangoodenough.com/?p=3

    The second is very good and should encourage anyone in Israel.
    The End Times – what I DO believe – http://www.stangoodenough.com/?p=42

    More thoughts on Israel and the End Times – http://www.stangoodenough.com/?p=43

    If you also read the comments, you will find many by Pre-Tribbers opposing Stan. They are deceived and blind to the fact that Pre-Trib Rapture is antisemitic. Because much of Bible prophecy is symbolic, many things aren’t clear yet or haven’t been revealed. Stan is correct.

  20. The idea of us Christian Zionists supporting Israel to realize the scenario of Armageddon is bizarre–I no zero Christians or Christian denominations like that, yet as a Christian “fundamentalist” (nondenomenational) I here that false charge all the time. The only thing I can think is that it’s repeated so much, in the same way The Protocols of the Elders of Zion lie is, that people believe it. What is true, is that we believe there will be an Armageddon and that 2/3 of Jews (this is specified in the HEBREW scriptures, Zechariah) will die and at least as many Gentiles (when one does the calculations), but we do not whatsoever believe that somehow helping Israel can bring this to happen, because the only thing necessary has already happened, there is a partial restoration of Israel to its own land. The full restoration to the very last Jew will be AFTER the Messiah comes to defend Israel. Yes we want everyone (Jew or Gentile)to know the Messiah and share about Jesus, but we leave it at that, none of that unbiblical forced conversion stuff from history by nominal Christians. And sharing the gospel is unrelated to unconditional support for Israel.

  21. “Loving the Jewish people out of thankfulness is not a theological stance but a moral one, because without Judaism there would be no Christianity.”

    That thought(morality above theology)is a most important one for Jews and Christians; for both, the cause must be recognized as being greater than religious dogmas. The religion of neither Jew nor Christian is anything unless they act upon moral obligations. If the cause is just religion should not be an obstacle, unity should take place based on the morality of the cause – a theology that trumps a moral cause is not a valid theology.

    If we can see what actions are good and evil in regards to the ambitions of Islam, that alone should cause a convergence between Jews and Christians because Islamic extremist will get nukes and they will use them unless someone stops them. The two predominate groups in opposition to radicalized Islam are Christians and Jews.

    Do you see anyone else or any other groups of people that are going to stop them? Do we not attempt to stop them ourselves because we are too “holy” to unite and cooperate? No government in the world is going to act unless there is a support base for action among a persuasive group of its citizens. This is why Europe is worthless.

    Being that it is obvious there are forces which are seeking to completely destroy a nation of people and then the rest of the world. Anyone, Jew or Christian who would let religious dogma get in the way of stopping this monster, their faith is in vain, it is worthless, I don‘t doubt that God hates it.

    If you strive for a moral cause you will fulfill your faith rather than if you strive for a faith and in the process deny a moral cause – in such cases faith is flawed. Furthermore, if you do good there is no conflict, for to do good is the end of God’s Law.

  22. Yoram

    Your remarks are over the top. While there are undoubtedly Christian organizations bent on missionizing including Jews for Jesus, they are the minority by far.

    From my personal experience in dealing with Christian Zionists I find that everything in this article and what we have posted brom Arlene Bridges Samuel to be true.

    They are true friends with whom we need not fear and in fact whould welcome them as kindred spiritsw. They are vastly in the majority. Its only the liberal churches and the left wing Jews that we have to fear.

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