[I suggested that the West should not rebuild Gaza but instead use the money to resettle the Gazans elsewhere. We could contribute to that. But no one has put this issue on the table. Too bad.]
By Moshe Feiglin Aug-27-2014
The collapse of support for PM Netanyahu (from 82% during the ground incursion in Gaza to 38% today) was to be expected. The job of every state and head of state is to provide his/her citizens with security. If the security of the citizens is compromised, the leadership loses support.
All those disappointed people, however, must understand the dynamics of their worsening security situation. If you would ask them if they believe that there is no choice but for Israel to annex Gaza and turn it into an Israeli city, like Jaffa, most would look at you as if you were hallucinating. So although there is definitely a problem with our leadership, the public is looking in the wrong place for a solution.
Since Oslo, most Israelis believe that the Oslo two-state solution will alleviate Israel’s security problems. But the Oslo mentality is the root of the problem. The public cannot expect Netanyahu to conjure up a solution from within this faulty consciousness.
I am completely opposed to an Israeli invasion of Gaza if it is only to retreat once again or to rule colonial-style over the Arab population. I am opposed to any temporary solution that will endanger our soldiers.
Israel must conquer Gaza and help its residents to emigrate. Their other option would be to live there with a solid Jewish majority. Gaza must become a thriving Israeli city – the Riviera of the Middle East – with modern tourism, high-tech and all the amenities of a modern city. This is the only realistic solution.
There are 4 elements to my plan:
Israel must recognize that this is our land, not theirs – Gaza included. No more talk of the Oslo two-state solution. One state for one People.
The IDF must conquer Gaza according to all the Western military doctrines.
Encourage and provide aid for Arab emigration. Instead of the nearly trillion shekels that Israel has invested to date in the Oslo two-state solution, we can invest in an emigration basket to allow the Gazans to relocate with financial security. Financially secure immigrants are welcomed in most countries.
Encourage aliyah to Israel and Jewish settlement in Gaza. Within the next decade, we will be seeing 1.5 new Jewish immigrants to Israel. Our demographic situation is excellent. Encourage veteran Israelis and new immigrants to make their homes in Gaza and make it flourish.
This is the only pragmatic, realistic solution on the horizon. To accomplish it, we need leadership that believes that this is our Land.
yamit82 Said:
I have a couple of extra pitchforks I could contribute. You want melodrama I could stand in front of the masses, wearing my pink bikini of course, waving a pink pitchfork !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sugar.
honeybee Said:
Well, if it’s a micro string bikini 🙂
Topaz Said:
You are being melodramatic. Ain’t gonna happen and you know it.
yamit82 Said:
Ah come on Yamit82, you mean no dancing, to Led Zeppelin, while wearing my pink bikini ??????????
honeybee Said:
Yes but without external expression. 😛
yamit82 Said:
May I gloat ??????????
CuriousAmerican Said:
Start naming I can’t wait to be embarrassed?
You must search far and wide in trying to find moral equivalence against Jews to justify your bloody history against us. You are a vile specimen of a Jew hater; at least admit to your nature and stop the charade.
He was a Jewish (convert) King. Gave back more than he got from those filthy christian invaders and even if the stories of Massacres are highly inflated in numbers I love to read stores of Jews sticking it to christians. If read in context it was always the christians who instigated strife between Jews and themselves as well as everyone else. Truth is christian leaders were greedy monsters who used religion to advance their goals of stealing others wealth.
Yosef Asher Dhu Nuwas(King with beautiful Sidelocks) r.518-525CE (start page 70)
yamit82 Said:
May one gloat ???????????
Bernard Ross for leader of the Knesset. Fires everyone else. All this talk about what to do with Gaza… Gaza should have been flattened and the Gazans made aware not to mess with the Jewish people. Forget the rest of the world, they have forgotten their manners around us. Do it, and do it fast is what the motto should be. The ceasefire seems to be only on Israel’s part. HOw much evidence is needed to convince the Israeli public to march on the Knesset and demand a strong military take over and finish the job. It is now or never.
Joseph Rapaport Said:
Putin is warning the world not to mess with Russia as they are still a Nuclear power???
Last time I looked Israel is also a nuclear power.
Thing is the world believes the Russians might employ their nukes but don’t believe Israel would.
Change the perception change our reality and relations with the world.
Habah l’hargecha hashkem l’hargo — “If someone is coming to kill you, rise against him and kill him first.
However, it should never be done with glee.” 🙁
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel
Moshe Dayan: “Israel must act like a mad dog to dangerous to be bothered with…”
@ CuriousAmerican:
Dear CA this should be your real concern, your own house , the left and progress are re-writing your religion.
@ yamit82:
yamit82 Said:
If this is true, then you are correct, it is shameful, and sadly I have every reason to believe you.
CuriousAmerican Said:
you haven’t seen me in a pink bikini yet !!!!!!!!!! Oh my, am I disrespectably mocking you, ya betcha cowboy!!!!!!!!!!!
Etzel Said:
Can’t wait to buy an airline ticket and a new pink bikini. I hope you will be waiting with drinks in hand.
@ oldjerry:
You are correct but getting them to leave must be multifaceted. many ways to skin our cat and all should be employed to that end but there must be a decision to do it even if it’s not blasted all over page one of the NYT
bernard ross Said:
If the goal is the installation of the PLO in Gaza on the tip if the Israeli spear I too oppose the risk of even a single Israeli soldier.
On the other end I oppose using the civilain population of Israel as human shields for the IDF and the political leaders.
Every rocket and mortar fired at Israel was designated for killing Israeli civilians. Our response should have been that each rocket and mortar had been successful and not wait for some unlucky kids in schools or kindergartens to get blown up before Israel can justify loosing restraints.
Israel is protecting both the leadership of the PA and Hamas and I ask for what myopic purpose? Sure I know the bon ton explanations and spin put out by all sides. Not buying into any of them. We spend too much on the IDF and expect to get a reasonable return on our massive investment, otherwise disband the IDF, keep a strong border police and rely on Nukes for our ultimate deterrence. Don’t need generals to score points in battles, that’s political calculations not military. We were facing a lightly armed dug in militia of some 20,000 fighters. 10 years ago they were not dug in and had a few thousand fighters. Where were all those generals when all that digging and rocket smuggling and manufacturing was going on??/
Only by accident did we discover and put out of action 32 tunnels and set Hamas back a few years. How many tunnels were not discovered or put out of action one can speculate but I’ve heard as many as 50 still exist some completed some almost completed. There are by reports still some 500 tunnels in operation on the Egyptian border.
Rocket production is done mainly underground and have not been touched by the latest conflict nor does anyone know how many rockets of all types are still inventory. IDF calculations have been erroneous.
Every rocket and mortar fired into Israel is an act of war and a violation of Israeli sovereignty yet we accept it more like a criminal act.
We should not expect any other nation to uphold Israeli independence and national sovereignty when our leaders value it so little. If I hear a foreign leader quip that Israel has the right to defend herself and hear our leaders and pundit wax with satisfaction over such statement I could scream and spit with sarcasm. I always thought it’s a given that all national states have the right of self defense and apparently our leaders don’t know that and not to be told it’s so by foreigners, never mind they oppose our acting in self defense but that’s another issue. Gaza is and was a litmus test for our asserting our national right of self defense and even under international norms which no one abides by we could have devastated everything and everyone in Gaza.
Hamas was broke before the conflict but stand to reap billions as a reward for aggression. Houses and infrastructure will be rebuilt better than ever and Israel will help pay for it as well. Hamas leaders will make billions of the rebuilding projects as will Abu Mazen and his kleptomaniacs. Nobody is offering Israel compensation for our material losses. We are suckers with a capital S.
Hamas gains: Rockets hit Jerusalem, West Bank, Tel Aviv, and even as far north as Haifa region. The Manged to threaten Ben Gurion airport and what nobody talks about Dimona home to our major nuclear project and facilities.
Next time I look to see they improving on range payload and accuracy. You can’t leave 60% of the countries population vulnerable to 50 days of rocket attacks and justify it with all of the BS excuses I’ve heard from all quarters left right and center. Iran is watching and learning from our weakness, ISS is as well not to mention Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda. Our enemies are not stupid and if they ever unify and combine their attacks on us we are in deep shit.
After 3 weeks we went begging for resupply of ordnance from the Americans??? Three weeks against Hamas??? Shameful and incompetent. Israel commandos operate with success even today far from our borders but were not used against Hamas when when we knew where to catch and decapitate the leadership in a quick precision operation?
A tank Battalion could have cut off their hiding place and leveled to the ground KM in all directions. Today some of our tanks are equipped with Trophy System against RPG attacks.
My opinion is to first take Gaza eliminate Hamas and then worry about future moves. Remove the threat first…
bernard ross Said:
The residents of Gaza are not of the same ethnicity as those in Y&S. Besides from a small minority of indigenous natives most are refugees largely tracing their recent origins from Lod Ramle and Yaffo. They are looked down upon as inferiors by those those tribes occupying Y&S. In short they hate each other and it would be fun to see the firworks of population integration all in areas A and B in Y&S. Hamas takeover in months will be the result or very bloody civil war.
I say allow them to leave Gaza for PA controlled areas and not allow them to return. Depopulation of Gaza is a prerequisite before annexation. I think most will jump at the chance of leaving Gaza even if it’s to Ramallah etc. Easier to migrate out in the world from the West Bank than from a closed off Gaza. 500 of the wealthiest residents of Gaza left Gaza through the existing tunnels into Sinai paying $8000 per person. Wealth is leaving Gaza in anyway they can find to exit.
@ M Devolin:
Wasting you time debating this antisemite, Mr. Ross. He equates Christianity and Christians with Jews and Judaism. This is the sophistry Christianity has employed since its very beginning to gain purchase in the world. You’re right: he doesn’t get it. More than that, the Good Doctor is not satiated unless he can paint Jews and Judaism as malevolent toward others as Christians and Christianity have been toward their dissenters and critics. Of course Jews could leave the ghettos of Russia. All they had to do was use all that money they had hidden in the walls of their houses to pay for their passage across the vast expanse of Russia and then on to America. There were no pogroms in Russia at all. Jews just made that up. Jews were not marginalized in Czarist Russia. They remained and were persecuted in Russia because they love to be persecuted. The Good Doctor is teaching you your Jewish history, Mr. Ross. He’s a Christian: he knows more about the Jews and Judaism than do the Jews. This has been Christianity’s boast from the beginning. The Good Doctor is only a manifestation of the idolatry he lives and follows.
It “runs both ways,” Mr. Ross. The Pals are really not Jew-haters. They want to live I peace with the Jews.
The Good Doctor is an antisemite. Just like his Christianity has taught him to be. The only thing the Good Doctor understands is a smack in the mouth and a kick between the legs. This is the only thing that will release him and his ilk from the birdlimes of his Christian theology. You are wasting your time talking to this stupid bastard.
@ CuriousAmerican:
You are so full of shit that you would even consider any justification of Jew persecution by christians by any Jewish reaction to those persecutions by same. Revenge by the Jews against christian persecutors is very Jewish and when we have the power to inflict our revenge we are commanded to do so. We have not forgotten the treason of early christians who supported Rome in the Jewish wars against other Jews and Bar Kochba in the midst of his war against Rome made it a priority to deal harshly with his christian traitors.
The Jewish communities in Spain are ancient, starting some contend with trading colonies during the time of Solomon.
(the port of Tarshish mentioned in the Jewish Bible)
The Visigoths invaded Spain in roughly 400 CE, introducing christianity into the area – a particularly intolerant form of christianity. One rule after another decimated the Jewish communities through dispossession, forced conversion, enslavement, and slaughter. As well as the texts of the actual laws, some anti-Jewish polemics by Isidore, the archbishop of Seville, still survive.
There is fragmentary evidence that Berber (North African) Jews became aware of the oppression of their brethren in Spain and mounted a military campaign against the Visigoths at the end of the seventh century (roughly 694 CE). The Visigoth christian kingdoms were finally destroyed when the Moors (North African Muslims) conquered Spain in the early eighth century (roughly 711 to 715 CE). 😛
Jewish warriors were then charged with defending the newly liberated areas. For example, in Seville, in 712 CE, a Jewish militia had the sole responsibility of city defense. Elsewhere, the garrisons and city militias had a substantial Jewish presence.
Under the rule of enlightened Muslim kings, the Jewish communities prospered and, in turn, contributed greatly to the prosperity of Spain. Unfortunately, between the mid twelfth and early thirteenth century (1140ies through the 1240ies CE), the Almohades, a fundamentalist Muslim force from North Africa, overran the Muslim and Christian kingdoms of Spain. 🙁
As a result, in Seville, in 1248, the Jews welcomed the Castilian, christian, navy with open arms and joy, presenting Ferdinand III with the key to the city. Though Jewish taxes under the Christians were heavy, nevertheless life was preferable to Almohade rule and the Jewish community prospered for at least the next hundred years. However, as the christians of Seville became more secure, the help of the Jews was no longer appreciated. As a result of anti-Jewish agitation by archdeacon Martinez, the confessor to the king’s mother, Seville’s Jewish community was nearly destroyed in 1391, and the synagogues were converted to churches.
Seville was the first site of an Inquisition Tribunal in 1481, and the Jews were finally exiled in 1483.
There were few places where enlightened Muslim governments were able to regain control from the Almohades. One of these, and the last Muslim kingdom in Spain was Granada. There, the Naserite dynasty took control in 1232 and ruled until Ferdinand and Isabella conquered the city in 1491.
March 31, 1492, was the end of Jewry in Spain, when Ferdinand and Isabella signed the edict of expulsion in “Granada of the Jews.”
The interactions between Jews and Arabs were always complex, with politics influencing the participants as much or more than religion. Thus, while there were instances of horrible enmity, it also seems that the Muslim armies of Mohamed were supported by large allied armies of Jews.
Jews were always caught between the Muslims and christians conflicts and sided with whom they thought would be most tolerant towards the Jewish communities. Most of the time they did side with the Muslims as the lesser of two evils.
Look up the massacres at the pool of Mamila in the early 7th century, where Jews massacred Christian in 614AD.
http://www.jpost.com/Local-Israel/In-Jerusalem/Massacre-at-Mamilla
The Jewish leader of Yemen Dh? Nuw?s massacred Christians in the 6th century.
Are you mad at Christians … in 711 AD when the Muslims invaded Spain, the Jews in Spain worked with the Muslims to help them conquer Spain, They garrisoned the cities for the Ummayid invaders which enabled the Muslims to head north. Without Jewish help, the Muslims could not have advanced so far into Spain.
From a reliable source.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAkiYUcOkXg&t=12m33s
Now, that alliance of the Jews with the Muslims put Spain under bondage for 781 years until Spain threw the Moors out.
You will answer: But the Jews were persecuted.
Yes, the reason was that a few years earlier, Christians had been slaughtered by Jews at the Pool of Mamila in 614AD, and the Christians were afraid that it would occur again. So there were some civil diabilities given to Jews. Spain and the Mideast were both under a common Eastern Roman (Byzantine) government at that time, and so Spain would have been aware of the Massacres at the Pool of Mamila, and hence the government was afraid of Jewish massacres of Christians in Spain.
However, the Jewish community then helped the Muslims conquer Spain. The Spanish did not forget this; and when the Christians reconquered Spain in 1492, they threw the Jews out.
Was that right? NO! Throwing the Jews out was wrong; but helping the Muslims invade Christian Spain was not right either.
There have been famous Jews in history who were responsible for the massacres of millions of Christians. I can provide names which will embarass you.
If one excuses these Jews, saying they were not pious, and therefore not representative of Judaism, then one has to excuse Christian tyrants as not representative of Christianity.
Rather I say as Isaiah has said: Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray
In the end, the blame game will get one nowhere. ALL are guilty. No one innocent.
THIS IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE.
I am tired of a one sided condemnation of Christianity. No one is perfect.
It is not that simple.
All that is done here is pick, pick, pick on Christians, but that will not work.
As a Christian, I know Christianity has committed crimes; but I also know that it runs both ways.
I have actually gone easy here.
CuriousAmerican Said:
no, a sense of revenge, payback and anger that the same collective is hard at work up to their same tricks of libeling, swindling, and paying the arabs to torture and slaughter the Jews. This is done by govs,P & S institutions and BDS churches who, what they do not yet do themselves again, fund groups connected with arab terror orgs intent on killng Jews.
CuriousAmerican Said:
CuriousAmerican Said:
Yes, this is the usual technigue you employ to create an equation between the Jews and their stalkers, I dont remember Jewish inquisitions,, Jewish pogroms, jewish death camps.
But it is less about the past than about the present despicable acts being perpetrated by the euro/christian collective. Of course I do not mean only Christians or all Christians, as today’s seculars also carry on the tradition which is why I have suspected it is by cultural transmission or genectic.
CuriousAmerican Said:
it never is…
What a sense of entitlement?
Both Christians and Jews have been robbed by each other. It is not that black and white?
It is not that hard to find examples of Jews who looted Christians.
Dispense with the black vs white paradigm.
I support Israel, but not a “beat up on the goyim” narrative.
It is NOT that simple.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Yes, there is an obligation to pay the full debt in both blood and treasure…the collection of a debt relies on the power of the collector….NOT the world but those who were involved in a 2000 year libeling, swindling, torturing and slaughtering of the Jews AND who today continue with those practices and funds those seeking to kill the Jews. YES, they must pay in blood and treasure…both. They are already paying, it has started, see the arab and euro springs.
Much of the world and especially the usual euro suspects are indeed anti semitic. that is proven beyond a doubt by the double standards applied to Jews in swindling, libeling and torturing……the examples arrive daily..did you not notice? the double standards and hypocrisy of the UN and the euro govs, institutions and churches should be enough proof for anyone who is objective.
the way things work is determined by power and the will to emply that power….Israel has the power to trasfer the arabs as the Jews were transferred….only the will remains and that remains because most jews are still in the stockholm syndrome of their euro exile. If the Jews decided on transfer it would be successful.
PS the pay them to leave has too many holes but the leaving part is good.
Some can be paid but not enough to be effective unless the world realizes, like us, that transfer is best and it should be funded rather than funding the status quo. as you know only the pals are not resettled of all refugee groups, another double standard for the Jews. The real issue is to convince the world of the paid emigration…..
I wonder what might convince the world to take the money they now spend on the pals, scheduled to eternity, and instead pay it for emigration and resettlement?
Forgive me for thinking you could think two steps ahead.
Helping Palestinians to leave the land WOULD HELP ISRAEL AND THE JEWS. I thought that was obvious, but apparently you missed that.
And if the Pals become Christian, why does that bother you as long as they are out of the land? Is this about Eretz Yisroel or your antipathy towards Jesus Christ.
If you are more opposed to Jesus Christ than letting Israel become more Jewish then the problem is with you.
I operate from a sympathy towards both Jew and Pal. First, Israel would end up with a more Jewish Jewish homeland. (See above) but you cannot see that far.
As for the Pals, unlike you, I do not feel that Pals are cattle. Nutty but not cattle.
Where did you get that? Are you paranoid?
As I have told you, I really do not care who pays; but most likely Jews will have to pay something because they will be the chief beneficiary. However, if you can get China to pay, I have NO PROBLEM!
Try it! See if China will pay to make Israel’s life easier. You are free to call them anti-semitic if they do not oblige you.
I doubt you paranoic rants will move them.
Are you insane? What are you talking about?
Final thought:
You seem to think that the WORLD has an obligation to spend $200 Billion to relocate the Palestinians to make Israel’s life easier at no cost to Israeli Jews; and if the world does NOT spend this money then the world is somehow anti-semitic.
That is not the way thingss work. If you can get China to pay, then fine; but almost certainly Israel will have to chip in a substantial amount BECAUSE ISRAEL WILL BE THE ONE TO BENEFIT and the world would sort of require it.
Etzel Said:
😛 😛 😛 😛
the likely progression of events, as opposed to my desires will likely be a version of the status quo as Israel attempts to avoid pressures for the creation of a permanent pal state in the hope that changing times will bring a future solution.
I expect to see small steps outside of any long term, permanent, final “solution” as Israel will likely be shy now of such solutions. Israel will seek to keep the pals in some sort of self governing mode as now exists but attempt to evade any real state sovereignty in the west bank.
It is likely that a recognized state soveriegnty will emerge that Israel cannot prevent. However, in such an un-agreed development Israel can maintain its defacto grip on area C and ultimately annex C based on the defacto control, the majority jewish population of C, and the historical right of jewish settlement. Such a development defacto may be Israels best bet as it seems impossible for any GOI to formally have the guts to annex C. I would expect that in a scenario leading up to this that Israel will be giving bits of land in C to maintain pal growth near existing pal population centers and to firm up a future defacto border. I beleive that this was already in progress with the land near Jericho. In fact the more the pals firm up their control of A & B the more it confirms Israels control of C as a separate entity. If the pals get a real state by agreement with Israel then Israel would give much more but if the Pals declare a state then Israel can end up getting more of C by default.
Maintaining or annexing C would also help to maintain control of Jerusalem. As for claims on golan a fragmented Syria is Israels best vehicle with the non state actors as a buffer between the state of Syria and Israel.
CuriousAmerican Said:
what is lacking is the will to employ ideas that have been used on the Jews: mandatory transfer. Realistically, none of the ideas are capable of implementation in the short term which is why the beginning should be the transfer of those allowed in under the Oslo agreements and all others openly hostile to the state of Israel. Transfer is the idea which can be implemented unilaterally, the quickest and at the lowest cost to Israel.
The evaluation of the solutions should have as a first priority the interests of Israel and not the interests oft he hostiles.
Here is a plan:
1-Israel seizes buffer zones across the lebanese and syrian borders. they have done this before with ease.
2-Israel sets up tents and temporary camps across the borders.
3-Israel begins a long term busing of the hostiles across those borders beginning with the most dangerous. Israel has this experience with Jews from Gaza and sinai.
4-The UN and other donors will have to make decisions regarding the transfer of their money and resources from the dwindling populations to the new reception centers.
5- the recipient nations will have to make decisions as to how to deal with the new arrivals(Israel can advise them from experience on absorption policies)
6-all the foreign agencies will now have been forced to focus their resources in the new population areas which already have existing UNRWA infrastructure that can be expanded as they wind down those in gaza and israel.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Feiglin also seeks the money now going to the pals in Gaza from the UN,euros etc. You only want the jews to pay. The only incentive for the others to pay is to deposit them across the syrian and lebanese borders. The money you would have Israel pay alone should be used to fund aliyah and lawfare. The arabs will sabotage the emigration plan and ask other countries not to take them as well as threatening the emigrants who accept the money. the plan has many holes and cannot accommodate the huge number in a reasonably short time. The first thing is to deport all hostile arab residents to remove the most volatile elements. Feiglins plan can be offered after much tweaking and getting aid from other sources. He refers to an “emigration basket” which I take to be a fund contributed to by all the regular donors to their cause. If Israel alone offers the package the arabs will sabotage it. Yours and feiglins plan work best under agreements with all the parties to the conflict, it cannot be unilaterally implemented successfully on a large scale.
Perhaps the best plan in a status quo is deporting the hostile elements, having an emigration basket using foreign aid and maintaining economic hardship on the rest.
Carrots AND sticks.
CuriousAmerican Said:
As stated many times before, the paid emmigration plan is dependent on the “good will” of others as opposed to being a unilateral Israeli solution. Once the arrabs are accross the border of a country, which has no benefit of a peace treaty with Israel,they will have to make the hard decision of what to do with this potentially destabilizing population. Israel and the emmigrants wont need to seek arab permission and their citizenship in the recipient country will be irrelevant to Israel. you already demonstrate one problem of the emigration plan: the approval of recipient nations. I note that no one is jumping up to take them with or without money.CuriousAmerican Said:
your usual equation: the jews were not killing the germans, the jews had no way of preventing the german bloodlust by their own behavior. Your equations are always macabre.
CuriousAmerican Said:
You just dont get it no matter how many times you are informed: “you know something is happening but you dont know what it is, do you Mr. Jones?”
The cheering is for the annexation, his plan has the same holes as yours but his motivations and intent are obviously not the same as yours. He is motivated in the interest of the Jews whereas you are motivated in the interest of the pals and your church. You operate from a sympathy towards the pals and he towards the Jews. You seek to equalize that pals behavior with the Jews behavior. The important thing to you is that the Jews do the paying, after all they never really paid for what they did.
The key to pal resettlement and the funding lies in them first being somewhere other than Israel. that is what will motivate the world to resettle the pals. The world and the arabs will sabotage emigration while they continue to be maintained as a threat to Israel. as soon as they arrive in another country they become the problem of others. Once they are outside of Israel there is no reason for the UN, UNRWA, euros,USA,arabs etc to fund their camps in Israel, they can send their money to their new address.
The Idea of a Israeli Riviera has great appeal, as to paying the current occupiers of The Gaza Strip, I would suggest a one way ticket to Liberia, two goats, and a $50.00 gift certificate to the Burka Boutique. Any Arabs refusing to leave should be given a free body bag.
Very good start.
Former Western military doctrine. Unfortunately the West has lost its will to live.
1 Trillion Shekels is about $300 Billion dollars. By my reckoning 3 Million Palestinians could have been paid $100,000 each to leave for that amount.
A family of five gets $500,000 Enough to set up anywhere in the world except Europe and N. America – where cost of living is higher, though it might be sufficient for Alabama or Greece. A lot of countries would take them at that rate.
Unrealistic. Right now, Israel is getting 17,000 per year. 170,000 per decade. Feiglin would have to increase that number by a factor of 9 to get what he wants.
The Aliyah solution is short term.
At some point the number of available and willing Jews in the galut will run out.
Again, great idea; but first one has to get rid of 1.8 million Arabs.
Let’s be honest, even the left believes it is historic Israel. What is lacking are ideas to de-Arabize the areas.
I like to create expressions; so:”You can always find a right reason for doing the wrong thing. What are the chances that N will even be ALLOWED to disclose All. I read a book a long time ago wherein thee was a line that stayed with me. To paraphrase, “There are three things that I live by, WHO RULES THE RULERS, HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO COST ME, ad, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO TO US NEXT.
Before 1923, Jews were easily able to leave Russia. Quotas may have been lowered after 1924 but they were not 0.
There is no Arab state willing to naturalize Palestinians at all, anymore.
So the situation is NOT synonymous.
The Jews were unable to leave from 1938 to 1942. The position of the Gazans is similar to the pre-Holocaust position of the Jews.
The Holocaust did not start large scale until after the Wannsee Conference of 1942.
Wow! When Feiglin says pay them to leave, everyone here cheers.
When I say it, almost everyone screams at me.
Interesting!
@ Topaz:
Part of the medical tests are not needed. 🙂
We hear that he claims to be tilting against towers…
“Don Netanyote de la Branja” replaces now Don Quijote de la Mancha”.
Now seriously.
The people must demand full disclosure of the contents of the agreement he signed for the “cease fire”.
All secret attachments included.
I think two things need to happen. !) An immediate investigation as to secret agreements by N and US and Qatar. 2) Medical tests to discover if N. has growing dementia and shrinking gonads. LOL
Before there can be any discussion as to the Gaza population discussion, the FIRST event must be the TOTAL SURRENDER of Hamas in Gaza. The war must be brought home to Gaza. That’s what the Allies did, won the war, total unconditional surrender, ONLY THEN the rebuilding and making into allies of the conquered Axis powers.
Right now, Israeli leaders are acting as if Israel lost and is the bad guy, AND must grovel and beg for a drop of a solution. The givings away at this latest betrayal ceasefire is beyond shameful for Israel. AND to add indignity to shame, Israel is to pay for these concessions!!! And of course, not only has Hamas returned to firing rockets, but the possibility is now set for the next round to be deadlier and possibly fatal.
If and when the Israeli leadership acts to destroy Gaza and Hamas and Abbas, ALL Of them; and that is a MONSTER IF; ONLY THEN can a new strategy for Gaza kick in. The Gazans can be informed that they have choices, possibly as per example: Then can join in the rebuilding of Gaza to create a Riviera of the Middle East wherein they and their children will have a life other Arabs can barely dream of. They can live in their own rubble and hate, for an eternal hitting back at them every time. They can find a way to leave.
Israel leaders have long ago abandoned the guiding principle of fighting each attack with a harder attack, destroying each means of attack (Israeli leaders knew for years about the tunnels and did nothing, did not even believe the kibbutz children who told them they heard the digging). e.g. You send ten rockets at us, we send 10 times 18 rockets; every time.
Another lost guiding principle is that Israel MUST act FAST in any war; before Israel can be forced to STOP by the Jew-hating world. Israel cannot afford or endure a war of attrition, especially when the population has to become ghettoized into bomb shelters, running scared. WHAT GOOD AN ARMED STATE IF THE MILITARY IS SHEATHED.
If I am correct, after the SIx Day War, Moshe Dayan paid the Arabs in Samaria and Judea to go to Jordan, and it was the US that FORCED ISRAEL to actually travel to Jordan and bring them back. Dayan said these people would become a Fifth Column. What was needed was a quiet slow returning of Arabs to Jordan and Egypt, AND most importantly, a Clarion Call to Jewish youth to come to Israel to settle in Samaria and Judea and Jerusalem, possess the land by demographics. Claim your land for all time.
Another lost gulding principle, is that as part of sovereignty, ONLY YOUR PEOPLE have control, supervision, of your holy sites, etc. As well, Israel GAVE to the Arabs the supervision of the Temple Mount; and the Arabs immediately refused Jewish access. How stupid and lack of dignity and, I do not even have the words. During this latest war with Gaza, Hamas was sending rockets into the DOME in Jerusalem. Israel protected the Dome with Iron Dome, etc. WHY stop this? Across the planet and over time, Arabs have a habit of building their holy sites on tope of other people’s holy sites. The only way the Temple can be rebuilt, is if that Dome is no more.
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
“The job of every state and head of state is to provide his/her citizens with security. If the security of the citizens is compromised, the leadership loses support.” It should be according to my democratically guided principles. All the oligarchs and despots around the world do not support that. Essentially, MK Feiglin, whom I admire greatly, is imposing our values and morals on a foreign system, that has an action clause of the war lord. The totalitarian aspect of Islam won’t change. Look how Israel built up Judea and Samaria following the 67 War. Arab standard of living skyrocketed by every measure. Then came the benighted Oslo Accords and Arab/Muslims got what they wanted (politically) and every standard of living dropped. For them culture and religion trump material comforts.
Don Salem, DDS
SHmuel HaLevi 2:
The closer such a reasonable and logical approach is adopted by The Israeli electorate the more intense will be the efforts to undermine it, from the usual suspects. That is why it should have been done two weeks ago by a brave leader who is willing to put the interests of his country and people above the needs of himself. I would have.
That’s my man!!! When Israelis wake up and follow
their own self interest based on Jewish principles then
better days are ahead. Of course the analysis presupposes
the ability to disregard world opinion.
If you want to make the Arabs leave Gaza there is only one way to do it. Make life miserable for them so they want to leave. Look how many Jews left Russia, past and present, for that reason.
Let us say for argument sake you can get Gazans 40K to 100K visas somewhere, what about the rest? Look at the numbers of people taking in people in other countries? Especially a mostly uneducated population.
Is this proposal based on planet earth?
I also want the Gazans to leave and I not against experiments of this nature.
Start in Area C of Judah and Samaria and East Jerusalem so time and money are not wasted.
I beleive this perception is entirely correct. The public must be given new solutions which are actually the old solutions; but who will take up this task?
I agree with this statement 1000%….
This is why BB at the crossroads of what to do, whether to send in the troops to depose hamas……….
It is Oslo which is the demon ghost which obstructs, prevents and thwarts any REAL solution, for Israelis, to the problem.
This is what will also in the future thwart security because no one wants to risk lives only for quiet and quiet is all that can be obtained from Oslo. Its time to return to a paradigm of annexing land and “facilitating Jewish immigration and settlement” in the mandate territory which was EXACTLY the internationally legally binding unexpiring prime directive of all the legally binding agreements.
A return to the prime directive is what will solve the problems now and in the future providing the correct goals which make for a clear and sensible road map.
I agree with this and I believe this was the motivation for BB not to depose Hamas at the expense of soldiers lives. However, the solution is still temporary because it leaves Israel with a security problem no matter which arab gov is in charge. Furthermore, Israel does not recognize the value of Gaza as an asset integrated into the state of Israel in terms of security, economics, tourism, etc. Feiglin begins to recognize this. The infamous Sharon, and his ilk, cheated Israel.
However although I agree with the Feiglin Plan in principle, even though it may involve Israeli incentives to which I am usually opposed in principle,feiglin has not fully dealt with the problem of where they will go and how will it relate to YS and the PA west bank. Would they be banned from entering and residing in the PA, how would that be feasible? Otherwise one is merely transferring the problem to the west bank. Without the hostiles, Gaza would be a great asset and Israel would certainly turn it into the riviera, monaco,etc. but the details need finessing.
Update to my own post: I see that under feiglins plan the arab must permanently emigrate and NOT be allowed residence in the PA west bank. I believe feiglin wants the same for the west bank but without the internationals and arabs on board the cost might be too high and the obstruction of intransigents might sabotage it. However, as a long term investment and solution bringing on other players in contributing, especially the euros and UN/UNRWA this might work and the benefit to Israel would free it up to make the money back in the world economy. However, i still believe that forced transfers across borders with no treaty with Israel is better and at least should be done with all criminals, hostiles, stone throwers etc. I also think that Jordan in the long term, by assent, by monarchical policy change or by war, would have to accept the pals. Perhaps financial incentives to them would also help from the UN , euros and arabs.
ONE STATE FOR ONE PEOPLE, JEWISH. THAT SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE BEEN THE ROCK UPON WHICH ISRAEL STANDS.
THE CONCEPT OF A RIVIERA HAMAS-FREE GAZA SOUND GRAND IN FANTASY. NO SANE NATION ( ISRAEL IS THE INSANE EXCEPTION), WILL EVER, EVER, EVER, TAKE IN THE ARABS FROM GAZA; FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY FROM THESE SAVAGES. HAMAS=IS NEEDS THE INTERNATIONAL FUNDS THAT FLOW TO GAZA, MAKES THE LEADERS INSTANT BILLIONAIRES.
Excellent proposal. There is no other way.