By Ted Belman
US Framework to Demand that PA Recognize Israel as Jewish State
US Ambassador Dan Shapiro declares that PA must recognize Israel under framework agreement – despite their open opposition to it.
This bothers the hell out of me. Same goes for security discussions. Same goes for Kerry’s recent statement that supports Netanyahu’s contention that no Jews will be uprooted.
Why? Because underlying such statements is the fact that they presuppose Israel will agree to borders based on ’67 lines with swaps so that the major settlements blocks remain part of Israel. Under that formula we are already told that 150,000 Jews would end up living in Palestine. And mark my words, it presupposes that Jerusalem will be divided.
bernard ross Said:
Too many contradictory statements of late to take any too seriously. Seems like a contest as to who will not be blamed for failure. In such contests the clock is your friend.
bernard ross Said:
Been asking that myself. I hope she is OK.
yamit82 Said:
ping pong?
yamit82 Said:
look at my post here at #1. Great minds think alike. 😛
(wheres HB)?
@ bernard ross:
PLO official: Palestinians could recognize Israel as ‘Jewish state’
Jordanian Sheikh: Israel Belongs to the Jews!
Sheikh Ahmed Aladoan of Amman, a member of Jordan’s well-known Adwan tribe, posted to Facebook this week that there is no such place as “Palestine,” and provided references from the Koran to back up his assertion.
One of the Koranic verses provided states that Allah gave the Holy Land to the sons of Israel until the Day of Judgment (Surah Al-Ma’ida, verse 21), and the other (Surah Al-Shara’a, verse 59) says that the land was bequeathed to the Jews.
The sheikh turned to those who “distort the words of the Koran,” whom he labeled as liars, and questioned where they had even come up with the name “Palestine.” He insisted their claims to the Land of Israel were forfeit because “Allah is the protector of the Children of Israel.”
nd if that wasn’t enough, the sheikh went on to turn the tables on the anti-Israel propaganda machine by accusing the Palestinians of killing children, the elderly and women, of using human shields, and of having not an ounce of mercy for even their own children.
The sheikh’s words caused a storm in the Arab media, and were picked up by the Israeli Embassy in Amman. Read More
yamit82 Said:
I am not worried about them flooding israel but that they flood a PA state on the west bank. I do not see how abbas can allow that scenario, can he absorb them and what would that do to a pal gov? On the other hand he cannot refuse to let them in overtly. Pals going to a west bank state of pal is as dangerous as going to Israel. this is never mentioned but wold have to be a major consideration in any real agreement.
whether 5 million pals arrive in Israel or a west bank pal state is irrelevant as such an influx into the area would be disastrous for the jews under any envisioned scenario.
this gives more credence to the notion that a long term pal solution would make more sense to Jordan. the overthrow of the king at a later date would make that the main pal state. Either that ore each existing nation and others resettle them but somehow I think that a real “pal” state is what they would want and that appears to be Jordan who has lots of land and a major population of pals.
this time bomb is one of the main things that makes me think that the talks can be a stall
yamit82 Said:
doesnt that freeze already defacto exist?
yamit82 Said:
you have watched american tv wrestling where the outcome is agreed but the drama is still riveting. I think we will see a lot of snags, rejections refusals as part of a drama. I do not know the outcome but I beleive the outcome of these talks is pre agreed either as an actual agreement or as a stall. I can of course be wrong but looking at each “event” with those eyes adds depth to the analysis.
Palestinians: Eight Million Refugees Must Return to Israel
Many Palestinians said that Abbas was not authorized to make any concessions or speak on behalf of the refugees.
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is facing criticism from Palestinian refugees for saying that he does not want to “flood” Israel with millions of refugees.
@ bernard ross:
Kerry’s framework unacceptable to Abbas, says official
After two-day bilateral meeting in Paris, Ramallah rejects US proposals, particularly recognition of Israel as a Jewish state
bernard ross Said:
Opposition slams Netanyahu, after 21 MKs send him a letter clarifying that a construction freeze is out of the question.
Wasn’t there also talk about transfering some of C near Jericho also? Wasn’t there some talk about giving the pals access to the dead sea in the north?
the indications for a possible status quo outcome are:
1- BB’s release of the terrorists would have been required by Abbas to sit down for fake talks that end up going nowhere. He can claim he got the releases for nothing and BB would consider it a reasonable price to retain the status quo.
2- Once transfer is rejected and the pals are to remain in at least A&B then the status quo becomes a goal for the present so as not to give up sovereignty. However, it would be concluded that without transfer some more land must be given to the pals to exist, from C. an indication of a status quo outcome would be the giving up of small amounts of C in areas near densely populated pal areas for development. This would be another minimum requirement for anyone seeking a status quo outcome. this would not be a requirement, or the prisoner releases, for any real final outcome.
3- the framework to continue talks with more israeli giveaways actually would be an indication of a pre agreed stalling. In such an arrangement BB would have to give Abbas things he can wave that show he got something for nothing while still retainng everyone in their current positions of power and money.
4- another indication is that none of the parties would benefit from a real final agreement which would change everyones status quo: neither abbas, hamas or israel. the current situation is agreeable to everyone but the street. therefore, another indication of a staus quo outcome is a drama for the street.
5-If one analyses a scenario to end up with a status quo, and the EU is part of the agreement, then the EU must also appease their street with a drama of pressure on israel while actually doing little.
therefore, there is a scenario whereby this can be another stall with an appearance of progress.
………
-If the outcome is planned to be a giveway state to the pals then this will be the fig leaf that BB will tout as a great victory.
-If the outcome is planned to be a stall then this will be the way out for abbas wrt the pal street. what will keep him alive in this case would be that he got the prisoner releases for nothing but sitting down. In this outcome BB will have released the prisoners in return for the fake talks with the status quo outcome.
Note the flexibility of the one issue.
What should bother everyone is the tricky way that BB keeps fooling the public.
“I will not uproot any Jew from YS, no Jew will be evicted!”
he told the “truth” but you keep forgetting to read the “fine print”.
Reading the fine print is what one must always do when dealing with shysters.
An honest man may make the statement but he will also disclose the “fine print” because he does not want to deceive.
My formula for interpreting BB statements is to look for the possible “fine print” behind his statements. So far, using that approach I have been able to predict the future regarding BB statements. Once the future arrives and we look backat prior fraudulent statements we can then see the motive for the intention to fool(eg E1 annuncement)as political decption and self interest. The only explanation for this behavior that can still predict no giveaway or agreement is that BB is fooling the public as a strategy to avoid the giveaway. Place your bets!
Everything being discussed today in the negotiations I read about a year ago from pal sources.
Is the drama pre arranged and being played out for the street to accept the outcome?
I say a resounding YES!
Is the drama outcome planned to be a giveaway state or a status quo that appears to be an agreement?
Your bets as good as mine!
But I do believe it is pre arranged, which is why BB keeps his cards close to his chest and requires personal control. In anything pre arranged each snag and rejection is a dramatic tool similar to that used in american TV wrestling.
Jordanian sheikh causes stir with claims Israel belongs to Jews
Sheikh Ahmed Aladoan, who visited Israel last year, based his assertions that Palestinian claims to Israel are false on the Koran.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.575607