Let us for the moment forget that we are being asked to cede the promised land.
Shavit argues that Israel should cut a deal, not knowing what that deal will be in terms of settlement blocs we get to keep and whether they accept no right of return to Israel. Obviously, even Kadima and Labor will draw some lines perhaps killing a deal. He argues that it is better to find out how onerous it will be so that we can decide.
Remember when the Saudi Plan was first announced the incentive was a peace agreement with all Arab countries and the normalization of relations. Nobody talks about that now. So long as Syria does’t deal there will be no hope of that.
The Right is not monolithic. Some want all the land. Some want only Area “C”. Some want to minimize the number of Israelis we will have to uproot. Some don’t want to divide Jerusalem. The more we get than what is offered, the more on the right who will accept it. The cost of trying to minimize our losses, is continued deligitimation and demonization. Obviously the Left has less tolerance for this than the Right.
Another question is, if we accept a deal like what Olmert offered, will we be stronger and safer for it?
Finally the demand for a freeze is a red herring. If there is no deal other than giving up most of the settlements, what difference does it make on the amount of construction that will take place in the three month period? None, of course. It suggests to me that there will be no deal and therefore whether or not we are building is a huge deal.
Struggling with this peace process is diverting our attention from the real danger, namely the 60,000 missiles staring down on us and the looming of a nuclear Iran. T. Belman
Settlements are destroying Zionism
The right is loonier than ever and about to turn Israel into South Africa. (I probably would not use the word “loony”. I think fixated, manic, misguided or just out of touch is a good description. y)
By Ari Shavit. HAARETZ
The radical right has been loony before, too. It was loony when it saw the Yom Kippur War drawing near and did not prevent it. It was loony when it saw peace with Egypt drawing near and tried to stop it. It was loony when it initiated the Lebanon war. It was loony when it built 150 settlements in Gaza and the West Bank.
The radical right was loony when it toppled Yitzhak Shamir in 1992, when it toppled Benjamin Netanyahu in 1998, when it incited against Yitzhak Rabin and when it ranted and raved against Ariel Sharon. The right was loony when it gradually became messianic, batty and racist. The radical right was not just loony according to acceptable international terms. It was loony even based on it own principles. It refused to see reality, acted irrationally and irrevocably damaged Zionism.
But now the radical right is especially loony. Why? Because now we can see the price. Now we see the abyss we have been led to. We see the delegitimization, the demography, the spoilage. We see that more is less. We see that having it all isn’t what it was cut out to be; that if we don’t draw a border for the Jewish state, there will be no Jewish state. We see that the occupation is about to turn Israel into South Africa; that the settlements are about to destroy Zionism. We see the clock striking midnight.
Despite all this the loony right is staying on course. It still believes that the villa neighborhood in Elon Moreh is more important than an F-35 squadron. It still considers illegal outposts in the West Bank more important than Security Council resolutions. It still assumes that Israel’s power is measured in concrete and cement, roads and settlements. Backward views on state affairs make the loony right think it is serving Israel when in fact it is sabotaging Israel. The loony right is even undermining the settlement project. When it foils every compromise regarding the settlement blocs it is dooming all the settlers to the fate of the settlers in Algeria.
A week ago Netanyahu and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton drafted several understandings. It’s still not clear whether the understandings were serious. It’s still not clear whether they will be implemented or forgotten. But the Israeli interest in the understandings is perfectly clear – preventing a UN resolution on establishing a Palestinian state in the 1967 borders, preventing the Palestinians from turning the construction in the settlements into their eternal alibi, and strengthening Israel’s security.
The loony right refuses to see the crystal-clear Israeli interest. It is kicking and screaming, threatening and running amok. The very idea of freezing construction is driving it into a frenzy. The very attempt to resume the peace process is driving it berserk. With its mouth foaming the batty right demands that we all walk tall with eyes wide open to perdition.
The conclusion is unequivocal – if Israel wants to live it must release itself from the loony right’s stranglehold. The settlers’ rabbis are not the State of Israel. Nor are Shas’ rabbis. National Union, Habayit Hayehudi and the Likud rebels are a tiny minority. Only because the political system isn’t functioning they gained power. Only because the silent majority is silent they can bring upon us one disaster after another. Because sane Israel is indifferent, loony Israel gets to lead us to the brink of catastrophe. Not because of an act of God but because we are weak-willed and dispirited we allow the wacky fringe groups to take over the national agenda. We let lunatics take us to dark places.
Netanyahu sees this frenzy around him and gets nauseated. He knows very well that the loony right lacks a basic understanding of state affairs. He realizes that the loony right is dangerous. But to move from understanding to action, Netanyahu must achieve a political big bang. He must make opposition leader Tzipi Livni a substantial proposal. He must make a real effort to put together a Zionist government. Only a government consisting of the three central Zionist parties can deal with Zionism’s crumbling. Only a Likud-Kadima-Labor government can make the necessary decisions on the peace process. Only a different government can prevent the loony right from driving us all over the edge.
u
“Land for Peace” – Yeah that’s what Obama is doing in the USA – surrendering NYC to Islam for peace – surrender for peace has been the strategy of the american Superclass for quite some time.
So long as the Superclass remains in control of the populations whether foreign or domestic, they don’t care who lives there or who kills whom so long as they retain economic power over the masses and the power of exploitation.
Didn’t we date once?
You mean Sicko-Melinda? She (or he) is just another arab full of hate.
She likes to dance and party after causing deaths. Does that hint at
her origins?
A Jihadist out to discredit pro-Israelis by portraying them badly?
melinda: Who are you? I mean really who is the person behind the nom de plume, Melinda.?
I agree.
These commandments are not time bound but perpetual
Bamidbar – Numbers – Chapter 33
The Lord spoke to Moses in the plains of Moab by the Jordan at Jericho, saying:
Speak to the children of Israel and say to them: When you cross the Jordan into the land of Canaan,
you shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, destroy all their temples, destroy their molten idols, and demolish their high places.
You shall clear out the Land and settle in it, for I have given you the Land to occupy it.
You shall give the Land as an inheritance to your families by lot; to the large, you shall give a larger inheritance and to the small you shall give a smaller inheritance; wherever the lot falls shall be his; according to the tribes of your fathers, you shall inherit.
But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the Land from before you, then those whom you leave over will be as spikes in your eyes and thorns in your sides, and they will harass you in the land in which you settle.
And it will be that what I had intended to do to them, I will do to you.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
“When Hashem, your G-d, will Bring you to the Land to which you come to possess it, and He Will Thrust many nations from before you…and Hashem, your G-d, Will Deliver them before you, and you will smite them–you shall utterly destroy them; you shall not seal a covenant with them nor shall you show them favor. You shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughter to his son, and you shall not take his daughter for your son, for he will cause your child to turn away from after Me and they will serve other judges; then Hashem’s Wrath will burn against you, and He will destroy you quickly. Rather, so shall you do to them: Their altars shall you break apart; their pillars shall you smash; their sacred trees shall you cut down; and their carved images shall you burn in fire.” (Deuteronomy 7:1,2-5). “Perhaps you will say in your heart, ‘These nations are more numerous than I; how will I be able to drive them out?’ Do not fear them! You shall remember what Hashem, your G-d, Did to pharaoh and to all of egypt. The Great Tests that your eyes saw, and the Signs, the Wonders, the Strong Hand, and the Outstretched Arm with which Hashem, your G-d, Took you out–so Shall Hashem, your G-d, Do to all the peoples before whom you fear. Also the hornet-swarm Will Hashem, your G-d, Send among them, until the survivors and hidden ones perish before you. You shall not be broken before them, for Hashem, your G-d is Among you, A Great and Awesome G-d.” (Deuteronomy 7:17-21).
Laura is right, as I mentioned in my other comment. The Arab world will never be satisfied until they see the destruction of Israel (and G-d isn’t about to let that happen).
The problem as I see it, is a divided Israel.
If Israel comes apart it will be of their own doing.
The right has to take control and the left has to wake up to the realization the Palestinians, Hamas and Hezbollah are only interested in destroying Israel.
G-d led the Jews back to the Holy Land and He didn’t think it was necessary to put someone in charge.
Come on folks don’t let Him down.
“The question the Left (and Shavit) doesn’t answer is simple. Who are you making peace with??? The Palestinians do not want peace. They have made it clear that they do not accept the Jewish character of the state. Why should Israel dismantle itself? for what?? To satisfy public opinion??”
Apparently so. In the article, he talks about “preventing the Palestinians from turning the construction in the settlements into their eternal alibi,” as if (1) Israel can somehow win over world opinion by dismantling the settlements; and (2) Israel should put a lot of value on world opinion.
However, the experience in Gaza and southern Lebanon shows pretty convincingly that he is dead wrong. Israel dismantled the settlements in Gaza and withdrew. Israel withdrew from southern Lebanon unilaterally. None of this stuff has won over world opinion. On the contrary, when Israel takes very reasonable steps to respond to the rocket attacks from Gaza, it is castigated worldwide.
It seems pretty clear to me that the net effect on world opinion of Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza has been negative. Obviously the exact same thing — except much worse — would happen if Israel leaves the West Bank. The Arabs will engage in terrorism designed to provoke a response which can then be used to damage world opinion about Israel.
The fact is that the Arabs will always be able to come up with an “alibi” which will be accepted by the Leftists no matter how ridiculous it is.
_____________
” more important than an F-35 squadron.”
” more important than Security Council resolutions.”
Exactly how important are these things anyway? Seems to me that Israeli faith, self-confidence, and self-respect is more important.
It is the looney LEFT which is driving Israel over the edge. How difficult is it to understand that there are no deals to be made with annihilationist enemies. Any land for “peace” deal will not save Israel but put her in graver danger. It is not land for “peace” but land for futher war.
The question the Left (and Shavit) doesn’t answer is simple. Who are you making peace with??? The Palestinians do not want peace. They have made it clear that they do not accept the Jewish character of the state. Why should Israel dismantle itself? for what?? To satisfy public opinion??
Most israelis care about their jewishness, not Shavit. Most of the Left wants Israel to be a democracy, but not necessarily a Jewish state. It is the Left that is loony and it is the policies of the Left, enacted over Israel’s existence, that has brought Israel to its knees in front of the world. It is the loser policies of the Left that have caused the floods of Yordim. It is the pursuit of secularism that has infected the israeli educational system that has caused Israel to lose its identity and reason for existence.
Israel is not the Shas’ Rabbis, but it’s certainy not the delusional goyish Left. Israel is the Jewish center, Israel is the Jewish soul and the Jewish heart. Shavit’s parents and grandparents understood this, Shavit himself can’t. The Left can’t. Someone has to teach them. Someone will.
Loony Shavit has lost it. He forgets that two years ago we had an election (democratic) and the loony Israelis elected their mirror image, what Shavit calls the loony right. Notice he throws the term Zionist around as if he owns it but in fact the only Jews fulfilling true Zionist ethos are those Loony settlers not The Tel Aviv/gush Dan Crowd who increasingly are avoiding national military service like the plague and know their way around foreign capitals better than they know the geography of the Land of Israel.
As S Palin would say the ideas of the left have been “refudiated”. Enough Jews have died for our cosmopolitan cowards of Tel Aviv to tell the rest of us who is loony and who is Zionist.
Shavit has lost and and what we hear are the last gasping breath of a group of people who once controlled the state and are in danger of losing all of it in the next 20 years. He’s choking on that prospect.
In any event, if what he considers Zionist is Zionism, then I proclaim that I’m not. I’m just a Jew from the Land of Israel. That has a nicer ring to it.