The Hostage Deal BETRAYED Us All

Peloni:  Fleisher is correct!  The simultaneous release of dozens of terrorists in coordination with the release of 3 Israeli hostages is both immoral and damaging to Israel’s security.

January 20, 2025 | 17 Comments »

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  1. @peloni

    the next few months will show us to what degree Trump has Israel’s back

    We already know that he doesn’t have Israel’s back.

    Trump’s biggest push for the ME under the guise of desiring “peace in the Middle East” will be for the Abraham Accords and for the Saudi deal that are predicated on Israel’s agreeing “to start creating a path toward the two-state solution” (an imperfect quote).

    In other words, Trump will be working assiduously (I don’t like this word but I needed something that sounds really unpleasant) to shove the TSFS down Israel’s throat by all means including by deceit.

    Does this describe someone who will have Israel’s back?

    What if someone has a deadly allergy to something and his friend keeps pushing him to just try a little bit of it, “you will see you’ll like it”.

  2. It was no fascist salute by musk

    He.put his hand on his heart and he threw it forward

    His next words were

    “My heart goes out to you”

    For saving America from destruction by the Dems.

    A very honest viewpoint. And he was right

  3. This is exactly right by Peloni

    “It is not just the fact of US pressure on Bibi to accept the surrender deal which was bothersome, but the manner in which the mafia-like shakedown was presented to Bibi, demanding that the observance of the Sabbath be ignored by Witkof as he played the role of some local Enforcer rather than as Israel’s partner. And to top it all off, Trump has repeatedly laid significant praise on his enforcer buddy Witkof and his abiltity to get things done, which doesn’t bode well for future negotiations between Trump & Bibi. In fact, as Abelow noted, Trump should fire Witkof for handling the negotiations with Israel in the roughshod manner with which he chose to condescend to America’s greatest ally, and instead Trump is heralding Witkof as an excellent negotiator.”

    End quote by Peloni

    Trump as representative of major power

    It is very wrong to not be totally sensitive to cultural sensitivities, including religious ones too

    While the Democrats, the British and ALL of Europe are as bad as Trump, as open Jew haters, see the Irish president

    This is a matter of principle and also strategy and tactics. Witkof is reminiscent of a Stalinist bureaucrat lording it over Georgians, which inspired Lenin to write his Testament in 1923, calling for the removal of Stalin from power. In this endeavour Lenin formed an alliance with Trotsky to remove Stalin as his last action. It failed.

  4. Reader

    Why be puzzled

    “Replace the Jewish leadership? How? See my answer above, maybe someone will have a better one.”

    Certainly not. The first task is to defend the Jewish people against hatred of the Jew.

    In doing so the Trotskyist Party must develop it’s own program based on Marxism and place it boldly in front of the people of Israel

    There is no dogma.

    Fight Trump. Assert total independence.

    That means many things but includes:

    Defence of borders but this includes not only American borders but also understanding that it was perfidious British which created the Palestinism of the present, the Palestinians, by open borders during the Mandate while the Jews had poor leaders or were misled

    Other vital issues

    A full programme

    All issues

    We fight (to say it again) in a United Front against the Jew hating enemy

    The people will learn what Trotskyism is really for and will freely decide.

  5. I like Fleisher. He is intelligent and honest.

    The reality to me is that as present leaders stand a new and distinct form of Fascism around Jew hatred is coming into clearer form. Not only Jews are threatened but Real Trotsky followers also

    Adam I am sick of you in every respect. I tried to explain poorly inadequately, that Nazism in Ukraine is so real.

    Sebastien Zorn you called Leon Trotsky ‘a murdering bastard,”

    You lie and unless you can be defeated on that I don’t see any hope for Israel.

    In everything connected with this deal trump and his maga have BULLIED Israel.

    People like Sebastien do not understand what a colossal thing that is that has happened.

    In short this “Deal” came out of the very belly of world Antisemitism or if you prefer out of hatred of the Jew. It was a brutal attack on Israel stripping away from Jews their very homeland.

  6. @Sebastien
    Yes, well, to be honest, much of what Fuld reports here was offered in exchange for Israel’s acquiescence to accepting the surrender deal, and all of it is in fact in America’s interest in any event.

    To be honest, it was not just the fact of US pressure on Bibi to accept the surrender deal which was bothersome, but the manner in which the mafia-like shakedown was presented to Bibi, demanding that the observance of the Sabbath be ignored by Witkof as he played the role of some local Enforcer rather than as Israel’s partner. And to top it all off, Trump has repeatedly laid significant praise on his enforcer buddy Witkof and his abiltity to get things done, which doesn’t bode well for future negotiations between Trump & Bibi. In fact, as Abelow noted, Trump should fire Witkof for handling the negotiations with Israel in the roughshod manner with which he chose to condescend to America’s greatest ally, and instead Trump is heralding Witkof as an excellent negotiator.

    Of course, the next few months will show us to what degree Trump has Israel’s back and to what degree he is simply going to dispatch his Enforcer to push Israel to surrender more of its national interests, but this deal was both very damaging for Israel as well as rather concerning with regards to how the US might intend upon managing its relationship with Israel going forward.

  7. @Peloni

    “He’s all talk! He won’t follow through on his promises! You can’t trust him! He’s not a friend to Israel!”

    Um, really now. Check this out!

    Trump’s Day One Executive Orders Relating to Israel, Jews, and Palestinians:

    1) President Trump revoked Executive Order 14115, which had sanctioned certain Israeli settlers in the West Bank.

    Incredible!

    2) Trump restored sanctions on the International Criminal Court, reversing their cancellation under Biden.

    BAM!

    3) A 90-day pause was placed on all U.S. foreign developmental assistance programs to review their alignment with administration policy (e.g. UNRWA).

    About time!!

    4) Trump authorized the deportation of visa holders who support hateful ideologies, terrorism, or national security threats, such as individuals involved in pro-Hamas protests, riots, or fundraising efforts.

    Thank you!!

    5) The administration lifted restrictions on arms sales to Israel, including the supply of 2,000-pound bombs, to reaffirm U.S. support for Israel’s defense.

    Unbelievable!

    All that, and he hasn’t even been president for 24 hours.

    So, to all you people out there with Trump Derangement Syndrome, it might be time to take care of that because it seems you were wrong about him all along!

    -Posted by Hillel Fuld on Facebook

  8. @Raphael

    If Israel fails to live up to this bad agreement, which they were apparently forced to accept, would they be any worse off than if they had not agreed to “the deal” at all?

    Yes, they will be worse off for having agreed to the coercive surrender deal. The Pals have been all but evacuated from the Northern Strip, which will now be repopulated by the Pals. The territory upon which Israeli troops are situated are now being evacuated, and returning will require the same conquered land paying the butcher’s bill twice. Hamas freed terrorists are being returned to J&S as well as Jerusalem to wreak whatever havoc they care to commit. The Arab street will look more favorably upon Hamas and their tactics as having succeeded in the face of great adversity, providing an resilient support for the slaughter of Jews. Israel is being perceived to be less of a strong horse in the region, which changes the entire character of any peace agreements in the region.

    There are likely many other consequences which place Israel in a far less advantageous position due to their being coerced into accepting defeat at the hands of their butchers, even for just a period of weeks or months, but I think that this list provides a good start.

    But to your point,

    If the agreement is that bad, just dump it.

    you can count on Bibi’s govt doing just this, unless the Trump team sandbags them a second time.

  9. It just occurred to me that it’s never too late. If “the Deal” was a disastrous decision, made in the heat of the moment, why not just say so, and back out before something really bad happens? Or, alternatively, just don’t follow through with the terms of the agreement. Does anyone seriously think that Hamas will be honest about fulfilling its commitments? If Israel fails to live up to this bad agreement, which they were apparently forced to accept, would they be any worse off than if they had not agreed to “the deal” at all? Contracts are re-negotiated all the time. If the agreement is that bad, just dump it.

  10. @Adam D

    the PTB is The Powers That Be.

    I think it was I (but who knows) who invented it because of being too lazy to write it out in full.

    I also use TSFS which stands for Two-State Final Solution.

  11. @REader: after thinking about it, I agree with all of your points. However, I have question: What is the PTB? I have never heard of these initials before. I grew up in a different historical period, when people usually wrote out the full word when referring to an organization or anything at all whose first letters might be capitalized. I tried to google to find out what PTB might refer to, but I couldn’t find any meaning that seemed relevant to Israel. Pleaseenlighten me in your next comment, Reader.

  12. @Adam D

    These Israeli ruling elites, political, military and the lawyerarchy, have all been working to destroy Israel for too long.

    On this I agree with you completely.

    I suddenly realized today that this whole thing that we have been wasting time discussing (politics and politicians) boils down to one thing – the elite (of ALL kinds) have already made all the decisions and came to an agreement, and we are watching the circus for the stupid masses.

    I think that the PTB must be taking some special meds to keep them from dying of laughter while watching their subjects argue about what the PTB are up to.

    However, I think that trying to revive a meaningful Jewish life in the Diaspora is not the answer.

    The biggest reason is that Israel is NOT optional, it is the greatest miracle that happened in the last 2,000 years after the annihilation of most of the European Jews.

    If Israel is no more, what will follow is another Holocaust.

    Most European Jews (especially haredim) before WWII had their minds set on staying in the Diaspora – they were sure that things would improve, antisemitism would subside, and it had never occurred to them that the civilized Germans could ever do what they actually ended up doing.

    The Diaspora countries are turning into one worldwide Nazi Germany.

    In a Diaspora country where the population is heavily armed (and Jews are usually not, and it would make no real difference if they were) and with a heavy and growing Muslim presence, solving the Jewish question in that country would be a matter of days.

    Joining the haredim will not work for several reasons (I am not referring to you personally but somethings will be applicable):

    1) haredim don’t really want other Jews because they don’t think
    those other Jews are really Jews, you might even have to
    convert (“just in case”) to be permitted to join the community
    (even the National Religious/Religious Zionist one);

    2) you will have to have a very decent income because living in a
    Jewish neighborhood is not cheap, and if you do not live in a
    Jewish neighborhood where you can walk to shul, you cannot be
    Jewishly (Orthodox) observant by definition; you will also have to
    support a family with MANY children;

    3) income – you will have trouble either finding or keeping a regular
    (outside the community) job – of course, no one will ever tell you
    the real reason why you were not hired; so you must either have
    a moneymaking business or have someone who can and will
    support you;

    4) in my (who cares about it, right?) opinion, haredi Judaism is just
    as reform as Reform, only in the opposite direction – the truth is
    that 90% of the Jews cannot live this way even if they were
    dying to do it (see the above reasons, and there are more of
    them);

    5) last but not least – if and when the pogroms start, the haredim
    will be the first ones to end up in harm’s way or dead because
    they are easy to identify.

    In my opinion, Jews have to do everything to save Israel and make aliyah at all costs (in spite of the Jewish Agency).

    Imagine all the Jews in the US filing aliyah applications in a short period of time – that would wake up the Jewish leadership and the Jewish Agency.

    The objection might be – but it is dangerous to gather all the Jews in one place!

    I think it would be better for the Jews to be in one place where they have real weapons, airplanes, tanks, etc. then live in the Diaspora unarmed or lightly armed in small, disconnected residential areas.

    THE BIG QUESTION – HOW to do it?!

    I hate to say it – I DON’T KNOW.

    Replace the Jewish leadership? How? See my answer above, maybe someone will have a better one.

  13. Yishai Fleisher is 100% right. But unlike Yishai I have completely despaired of Israel. These Israeli ruling elites, political, military and the lawyerarchy, have all been working to destroy Israel for too long. Most probably unintentionally and unconsciously. But some must surely know exactly what they are doing. And the overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews appear to go along with these suicidal policies. policies. At the very least, they don’t oppose them very vigorously,

    This has led me to the conclusion that some sort of effort must be made to revive a meaningful Jewish life in the diaspora. Distasteful as it will sound to most of our readers, I think that perhaps that might mean more of us joining one or the other of the haredi groups. All the criticisms of the haredim made by secular and national-religious Jews are valid. But at least they are proud to be Jews, and don’t want to be anything else. Some of their communities may therefore survive, while most diaspora Jews will become completely assimilated, and most of the seven million plus Jews in Israel will probably be exterminated.