Stan Goodenough, a Christian Zionist living in Jerusalem has been a strong advocate for a strong Israel for many years. He gets what the November Summit is all about.
[..] Some die-hard Christian Republicans still insist that Bush and Rice are sincerely acting in what they believe to be Israel’s ultimate best interests. Even if they are [which I personally have a hard time hanging on to – Ed] they have gotten into bed with other “western” leaders who long ago ran out of patience with this “shxxty little country”.
Leaders like European MP and former French Prime Minister Michel Rocard, who reportedly told an audience in Cairo on June 17, 2004, that
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“the origin of the Palestinian problem is in the promise given by the British to the Jews to establish a nationalist state on the basis of the religious conviction that the Jews have a right to this land… It was an historic error on the part of the British to make such a promise, but this now belongs to history.”
Such sentiments have also infected more “ordinary” men on the street. On July 18, 2006, Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen wrote:
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“…Israel itself is a mistake. It is an honest mistake, a well-intentioned mistake, a mistake for which no one is culpable, but the idea of creating a nation of European Jews in an area of Arab Muslims (and some Christians) has produced a century of warfare and terrorism of the sort we are seeing now.”
Yes, 60 years ago this month, a reluctant gentile world still somewhat shaken up by the horrific sights revealed by the liberation of Hitler’s Death Camps, scraped together just enough compassion to support the establishment of a homeland for the Jews.
That compassion has long gone.
Israel is not much more than a nuisance; a thorn in the side of the world. The nation’s Jews, then, must be made to pay, compensating the Arabs and mollifying them, so that the threat Israel’s policies pose to world peace will be removed.
For the Islamic world, what the US wants to achieve at Annapolis is just phase one of the plan that will excise the Jewish cancer once and for all from their midst.
The creation of Palestine may appear to be more or less the belated implementation of Resolution 181. But not to forget, as Arafat used to say: the Arab world rejected that resolution, rendering it void.
For them, establishing a Palestinian state is not correcting that misstep. It is preparing for the correcting and erasing of the entire “mistake” that enabled Israel’s rebirth. [..]
I have absolutely nothing to do with anyone who is not willing to fight for their beliefs. Still, I will reserve my opinions of Netnyahu for the first year.
Any suggestions of who and how?
Netanyahu’s treatment of and response to Feiglin indicates that he is not the right man to become Prime Minister of Israel. Either Feiglin must take over the Likud, or someone else who will protect and strengthen Israel’s interests must be elected as Prime Minister.
Good luck, and my rooms are not and were never sealed! I like the wide open spaces, I have part of a horse and like to ride, traded a Suzuki in for her. A supermarket party like the likud with or without Feiglin will never go to the wall for Eretz Yisrael. They will always find a majority to compromise.
Great white hope of secular right? Don’t think so; but you got to have somebody else with enough charisma, money and message to challenge him. I saw your religious right waiting for g-d to save them when Sharon did his thing. Pathetic, at least some of us in Yamit fought maybe not with bullets and bombs but for three years we did everything but. We lost but we left with some dignity those of the 25 settlements Sharon destroyed did next to nothing for themselves as their traitorous leaders and rabbis who promised and told them that G-d would prevent Sharon from his evil intentions. Nobody seems to have told those good people hat G-d expects us to make the effort and then he might help.
No sir; Begin started it with Sinai and to do it he had to first destroy the ideological base upon which Herut and later likud was based. This he accomplished and the likud from that point ceased to be a right wing party. Just a bunch of opportunists and seekers of political power for personal enrichment. Since Begin the ideological right either vote for minor parties or stay home on election days. Those that remained voted for right wing candidates and received left wing policies and actions. No. sir; anybody who really considers themselves right wing place no faith in BB.
Begin, that egomaniac bunch of hot air verbosity always talked the talk but never walked the walk. Very flawed Character. He went out a depressed babbling idiot and Sharon a vegetable, how deserving maybe there really is Din and Dayan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ULKE9Lv3Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2V-BAnlBJk Yesh Din V’Yesh Dayan – English Subtitles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QaP4g6g4LI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJpXqOo8wzA&feature=related
Get 40 people elected from the Likud and watch who’s been out-manouvered.
Every penny to date has been worth it and will continue to be. If you prefer, you can hide in your sealed room forever. It’s up to us.
maybe not surprised but certainly it seems he has been outmaneuvered. After 10 years of trying and expending millions at the least he is a lousy tactician and and an even worse politician.
Feiglin has not underestimated Netanyahu. He has not been surprised for years.
Netanyahu goes post-Zionist:
Netanyahu has always been the great white hope of the secular Israeli right. The problem with this is his secularity. If you don’t believe in the Jewish God, and you don’t believe in Judaism, that leaves him believing in a “Jewish” state defined by “secular Israeli culture”.
But in the end, “secular Israeli culture” is basically just “American culture” spoken in Hebrew. And as the liberals (in America and Israel) relentlessly push their message: Judaism is bad, Jews are bad, Israel is bad, nationalism is bad, the nation-state is dead, the world is just one big global village, then secular rightist Israeli “Jews” move to the left as they stop believing in the Jewish state.
Sharon started it with the formation of Kadima. Netanyahu was jealous that Sharon beat him to it. Now that Kadima is discredited, Netanyahu wants to position Likud as the new Kadima.
Enter Feiglin: Feiglin is one of the few Israeli politicians who maintains true Jewish values. He wanted to do the opposite of Netanyahu. Netanyahu wants to make Likud the new Kadima, but Feiglin wanted to make Likud the new big tent of the Israeli right, both secular and religious.
But he totally underestimated Netanyahu and the post-Zionist drift of the secular Israeli right.
Netanyahu has now sucessfully sidelined Feiglin, greatly weakened the Israeli right (temporarily), and is free to merge Likud with Kadima.
What’s the better deal, Ted? That Israel will die a slower death? Thanks for that!
If your Hebrew is good, Ted, I just emailed you a letter from Moshe Feiglin.
Must get ready for Shabbat!
I take a different position. I am naive enough to believe that everyone has Israel’s best interests at heart though the differences of opinion on what is in Israel’s best interest vary. On the left it goes so far as to abandon Zionism.But for the broad center it applies.
Everyone wants what we think we can get without destroying ourselves in the attempt to get it.
Many on the left, like Pesky, think we have no choice but to give in. He doesn’t even want to fight. While many on the right, like myself, are not ready to throw in the towel without a fight. We may believe it is a long shot but that is no reason to give in. We think that by being tougher we can get a better deal or that the status quo is better than the deal everyone is touting.
There are others on the right, like Feiglin, who are unwilling to compromise believing if we act independently we can take the blows and succeed. Most of us are not prepared to go that far.
You – actually – we will continue to get burned until we stop out the fire that has engulfed the Likud long ago. The massive difference is that the reason for voting Likud is not because you want Netanyahu in. Just the opposite – it’s time to throw him out. This will never happen by casting your vote toward any of the sectoral parties? Who? Eldad? Great guy who’s about to acomplish, at the most, throwing over 10,000 votes down the drain? Who? Lieberman? I prefer Livni? Who? Habayit Hayehudi, with Meimad professor Hershkovitz at the helm? Go find and read what Matei Arim said about Habayit Hayehudi. Who’s left? Baruch Marzel?
We’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t but if we would unite, the tides would turn. All up to us. Happy voting!
No rational or sane person would say that Netanyahu represents Israels interests, then whose interests does BB, Olmert, Peres,Livni, Barak etc represent?
Four things seem to motivate ea in his own way: Power, Wealth,Enormous egos, and FEAR! not necessarily in that pecking order. Ea. of Israels leaders in turn are controlled and obligated to the biggest moneyed interests in the world and that includes some of the Jewish Russian Oligarchs, and the Vatican. Find out who is the money behind ea. and you will know whose interests they represent. All move in similar circles and all in some way are dirty and that especially means Sharon. No Israeli politician today entered politics a millionaire or even close yet all our top bananas are and especially once they leave political life. on basic salaries of around 2-3thousand a month clear show me how it is done legally. especially in Israel?
BB, Barak and Olmert have built or acquired homes far in excess of a million ea. Where did the money come from? Fictitious donors and virtual Pay back Jobs when out of office? certainly not from earnings as a legislator or minister in Government.
I after Yamit and Sinai would never vote Likud even if the leader was Moses himself. Once burned forearmed and forewarned. It’s a matter of options available and from my position none are up to or worthy of my vote, confidence and support. There is a belief albeit fringe source that BB is really an implant of American interests. Arens another Americaphile while Ambassador to America picked BB from political obscurity and made him N#2 at UN. They say Schultz pushed BB on Arens and he couldn’t refuse. BB has always willingly played ball and or seemingly caved to Pressure from anyone especially America and his positions today are totally in Character of BB from the day he entered politics. Zig Zag, left to right , right to left what ever seems to work at any given moment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ_t5JhzBTo&feature=related
The only way to control BB is to Box him in politically and that is to force him to the right thereby preventing coalition with the left and forcing him to create center-right coalition. Tall order in Israeli political realities. The likud will win the coming election bar internal implosion the open question is how big a victory will the likud get? My personal preference is for Likud to get enough mandates forcing BB to be dependent on parties to the right of him and with a potential solid built in core of opposition ala Sharon, who would counter any move to the left by BB. He is weak when he opposes ideological opposition he can’t buy or control.I urge a vote today for any party to the right of the likud inorder to make this happen. In the end Feiglin is a joke and should leave the likud where he is not wanted and help build a united(ideological) party right of Likud which as long as they have leaders like BB will always find a way to sell out the will of the likud voters.
I’m with you Bill.
Peskin, I do not know whether Feiglin, Eldad or others who talk tough would be talking as tough with America breathing down their necks.
Netanyahu talked tough before he was elected PM of Israel and soon thereafter wilted to America pressure and gave away Hebron including the area of Joseph’s tomb which was contrary to Palestinian promises, desecrated immediately on the Palestinians gaining contol.
I have noted before that those who suggest Israeli leadership should be tougher, are probably underestimating the power of American pressure and world opinion.
I have however hoped that Israeli leadership would toughen up to test the resolve of American pressure. I figured the worst that would happen is that Israel would be forced to retreat and accept the American or world pressure. I thought however by resisting that pressure opportunities might open up to not have to cave in all the way and in some instances Israel just might be able to get America or world opinion to back off.
In other words, I have argued that Israel should at least try to demand what is in its own best interests and not give up until the arm twisting is about to break Israel’s arm.
As for the Israeli electorate not complaining, I really do not know whether that is out of apathy and complacency or because the public really did back the Olmert government in continuing on with talks with the Palestinians to give up the West bank and part of Jerusalem and with Syrians to give back the Golan.
Narvey:
If you think any politician, Feiglin included would act any differently if He or She assumes leadership of Israel, you would indeed be supremely naive. Israel just remitted 100 million Israel shekels to the Gazans due to pressures exerted by the World Bank, the E.U. with which Israel has free trade, and of course America. Most nations don’t aid their enemies, Israel does because the real power brokers want them do just that. And they have the power to get their way.The majority of the Israeli electorate are not complaining.
Netanyahu’s Palestinian economic development policy makes a lot of sense, but only to Westerners. Palestinians are not Westerners.
Netanyahu’s policy is not new, however.
In fact such policy is and has been generally in place for a great many years as regards the billions of welfare dollars lavished, especially by the West, on the Palestinian, with the hope that the Palestinians would thus be enabled to develop their economy and economic infrastructures and with that, their political and social infrastructures to prepare them to accept the mantle of statehood in a peace deal with Israel.
The problem with the current generalized economic development policy is that it is bound up in the hopes of those that shower welfare on the Palestinians. Those hopes were never strings attached to the welfare given. In the result annual welfare monies and other forms of assistance provided Palestinians have not worked.
The Palestinians have used the monies and benefits for all the wrong purposes. They therefore remain politically weak and unstable and they have little or no economic base and infrastructure. Most of their people continue to live in miserable, impoverished and deprived conditions and their leadership continues to fill their heads with Jew hatred to distract them from seeing what they do not yet have and from the hunger eating away at their bellies.
What chance then does Netanyahu’s Palestinian economic development policy have, when it is more of the same old, same old that the Palestinians simply are incapable of taking advantage of as the West conceives they should and hopes they would.
It is disgraceful in my view that Netanyahu is prostrating himself to court favor with the very puppeteers who to be sure, will be pulling his strings if he pulls off the win to be Israel’s new leader. Those outside nations that Netanyahu is courting seem to believe that their difficulties in the Middle East are due to the unresolved Israel – Palestinian/Arab war and that it is Israel that must sacrifice to end that war, not so much for Israel’s benefit, but for theirs’.
I wonder if Israelis see Netanyahu in the same light as we do from here? If they don’t, then how do they see him?
If they do, then Israelis must see Netanyahu and Livni as being pretty much two foul tasting peas in the same pod.
Israelis thus will have to look elsewhere for strong leadership that will as far as possible, enable Israel to chart her own course without too much interference from outside nations pushing their own self interested agendas which conflict with Israel’s needs, let alone Israel’s wants.
It may be my hawkishness coming to the fore, but I’d rather Israel have a leader who thinks of Israel’s
needs first – not the U.S.’s or the U.N.’s. Maybe M. Feiglin would be better, or Eldad….
And you expected maybe…
corned beef?
Netanyahu’s obsequiousness is driving me crazy. He really is sucking up. The only difference betweem Netanyahu and Livni with regard to the future borders, is measured in inches.
The fact is that if you refuse to capitulate to demands then you will kill the peace process. Bibi is saying in advance he is prepared to capitulate. Economic developement is bullshit.
Has Netanyahu already become America’s puppet?
There has been sustained pressure on Israel to actively be engaged in the peace process to ensure it keeps rolling along.
With Israel readying for an election, you would think the leadership would take a break from the peace process to evaluate their positions and tell the world to take a hike before the new leader is ready to announce just what his/her position is on the peace process.
Not Netanyahu. He is out there launching a campaign
Whose interests is Netanyahu representing anyway? Israel’s or the world’s nations that want Israel to dance to their tune?
david is still addicted to the Obama kool-aid.
davidstill gets all excited because he believes his Messiah will save Israel and bring peace to the Middle East.
From the article linked above:
Think, david. Use the noggin God gave you.
Pardon me for putting up this link at this spot, where it is important to know about but out of placefor the post above:
Obama promising Israel a nuclear umbrella against Iran nukes
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1045687.html