Today I am live blogging from the conference of the WJC.
Dore Gold
– futher redeployment is req’t of Oslo
– spose to be up to Israel
– US wanted a second redeployment of 35%.
– politics and diplomacy came before security early on
– Netanyahu reversed this now. Security first.
– the Arabs are now concerned about Iran and not Israel
– Dore says this is a rare opportunity for Israel
– in Washington Israel will discuss security first
Maj Gen Uzi Dayan
– not only a territorial one.
– land for peace doesn’t work
– the more you give, the more they demand
– must change the policy, diplomacy based security, to security based diplomacy
– i.e. defensible borders come first and is a national right and provided in Res 242 and the Bush letter
– what are those borders?
– borders must provide 1) enough area for Israel to conduct defense from conventional attacks from east – Jordan Valley 2) must enable strategic defense to protect from missles and 3) demilitarize Palestine
– Thus Jordan River must be our defensible border
Brig Gen Udi Dekel
– What does demilitarized mean
– only way to fight terror is to dismantle terrorist infrastructure.
– keep them on a short lease or they will get away from you
– two kinds of threats – terror and military – inside and out
– peace doesn’t bring security, security brings peace
– a viable state they say is sovereign and contiguous. we disagree. It also means accountability
– We must be on the Jordan and an international force must be in Palestine to make sure that the Palestinians are accountable.
Maj Gen Yaacov Amidror
– he is responsible for Israel intelligence gathering
– from the start, Israel decided to defend itself. Europe decided to be defended by the US- quite a difference
– international forces are useless- worse than useless, they get in the way
– the mission of UNIFIL is to defend themselves – that’s it
Ron Lauder asked what happens when the PA doesn’t live by its agreement and the panel says that we have to minimize risks as much as possible and then take the chance. If the PA subsequently violates we will have to deal with it then,
I asked why Israel is ignoring its rights and putting security front and center. If we get all we want security wise, are we prepared for ’67 borders subject to mutual exchanges? The answers were very unsettling. Amidror said that many in Israel don’t want to favour our “ideological” rights if this means we remain as occupiers.
Deligitimation of Israel
Prof Gerald Steinberg
– our detractors don’t care if they win their courtcases against us or get a boycott against us and break the blockade etc. But all these activities give them the opportunity and publicty to deligitimate and demonize us. that’s what it is all abou.
– “we are winning this battle. We are deligitimating the deligitimators.”
– we have started the research that enables us to challenge the detractors.
– the NGO’s get hundreds of millions of dollars from the EU and the Arab League. We are successfully exposing them
Fiammi Nerinstein
– we must fight it because it is a danger to us
– we must be critical of Islam i.e. deligitimate Isdlam
– Italy built institutions like Commission against Antisemitism
– generaly government institutions
– we must pass laws.
– Israel must lead
– she has a website
Brig Gen Yossi Kuperwasser
– the world was always against us since the Mandate.
– we must protect ourselves from deligitimation, growth of Islamic forces in the region
– the Palestinian narrative is the dominant narrative
– third challenge is the way the US and our friends are going
– The PA narrative undermines our peoplehood. Zionism is the Jewish national liberation movement. It is about our identity. i.e not a people
– we claim the moral high ground. the Palestinian narrative undermines us.
– they prevent us from being sovereign. They require us to go to international tribunals
– This is more than about Israel , it is about our Jewish identity as a Jewish people.
– We must build an organization to lead this battle
– we must develope a plan
– we must be proactive to defend our legitimacy.
THIS WAS A GREAT PANEL. VERY UPLIFTING.
The information came quickly. I did my best to get it down. I missed some stuff.
logicom. You say my choice is clear and then you ask me what side I am on. Hmmmm. I am not an Israeli citizen so therefore I stand by Israel thru thick and thin as I do have an Israeli heart. I have my own opinions but do not feel it is my place to interfere since I have no voting power. I am not as physically close to the sea where the oppressor would love to cast all Israeli Jews so therefore I would not want to rock the boat for them.
Negotiate your own death, you stupid putz.
Negotiate your own death, you stupid putz.
Let us know your planned put-you-under date. I’ll throw a virtual kiddush.
Mir: your choice is clear. Israel has embarked along the path of negotiations rather than waging endless wars. Hamas and Iran rejects that choice.
You can either support Israel’s decision or join with the rejectionists, Hamas and Iran. The gang headed by Yamit82 would rather make common cause with the rejectionists.
Mir, WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON?
Logicom. YOU ARE WAY BEHIND THE TIMES. If you think for one moment that it is possible to love someone who has done NOTHING BUT LIE PERSECUTE AND KILL YOU AND YOUR PEOPLE YOU ARE IN THE WRONG ERA. HOW DARE YOU COMPARE THESE PEOPLE WITH THE OPPRESSOR. EXPLAIN YOURSELF AND THIS BETTER BE GOOD.
Narvey:
Yes, my feelings about what is happening now in the middle east is quite clear. It is fine to have a point of view but if that opinion is devoid of any sense of reality , it is just senseless pontificating . Example-those who would like for Israel to just incorporate the territories unilaterally and deport the Palestinian population forget that there is no national consensus for such an act in Israel nor would it be a tolerable act for any and all of the external actors. Just yesterday Bibi in a speech used, for the very first time the phrase “the West bank” rather than usual Judea and Samaria. That says a hell of a lot.
You Narvey, in a previous post stated that the Palestinians are full of Jew hatred and as such cannot be trusted to negotiate fairly. I note that hatred of your enemy is a common emotion prevalent amongst all warring parties. It is quite uncommon to love your enemy. And what I have seen is that that this is very much a two way street. Many Jews hate Arabs and Moslems. Read the opinions of Fistel, Levinson, Yamit, Shy Guy, and especially Laura and you will find no shortage of hatred.
The point of negotiating a settlement is to diffuse that hatred-and most important, no one can say with 1000 percent accuracy that the peace negotiations will not work. We don’t have any real prophets on this site. That is for sure.
I definitely don’t subscribe to the idea of any Jews joining in the rejectionist camp and making common cause with Hamas. They too don’t accept the notion of a settlement. I believe in supporting Israel at this critical time, not supporting Iran and Hamas in their immoral goals of derailing the peace process and over time destroying Israel.
Thanks HWSNBN.
Logicom, instead of taking sarcastic potshots, contribute your views. Obviously your views will be at odds with some or all the foregoing comments, but at least we would know precisely your thoughts on these matters.
Great update. Thnx! Yamit. Time for you to do some homework. Canada has always been marginalized by the U.S. Americans know diddly squat about Canada because they are too busy snob gobbling with larger nations. Ever seen an episode of This Hour Has 2c minutes? Or The Mercer Report? Its hilarious the way they poke fun at the Americans. Obama is proving to be more of a follower than a leader. SPINELESS.
Ron:
What you and uncle say is right on the mark. I am confounded by the fact that the major networks, the cable news networks – CNN , Foxnews, BBC news, Reuters, and the media in general pay so little attention to the absolute nuggets of wisdom that you guys spew forth in such abundance.
No wonder the globe is in such a sad state.
Uncle what you say is correct the reason more than ever the need for the truth to be told.
Who will do it?
Yes Americans are tuned in to those things that effect them and not much else.
Listen, I am one person, I do my best to inform and educate some of my colleagues and friends. I use the video’s because I believe a picture is worth a thousand words (and a guy with a limited knowledge wouldn’t get far).
Usually the response to viewing the videos is “Oh my G-d, I didn’t realize”.
Now how about a paramount PR program to do the same thing.
Listen, a couple of video reflected the great accomplishments of the Israelis. They can do whatever they put their minds to, there is no limit.
By the way if I were Jewish, you can bet your ass I would be boasting about Israel like a volcano, I’d be one proud Jew.
Again American caring people and will always stand by what is right.
Sure some.
Test: there are some 17 million Pakistanis homeless and many starving and dieing due to the floods there, diseases will kill many.
How many Americans care, or know what’s happening there. Your Fox News ignores the subject like a plague. Yet little Israel and the non peoples get hours of air time.
When you compare Israel to England Ireland Canada Australia Japan etc how does Israel rate in popularity? How many Americans can find Israel on a world map? how many Americans know half as much as you do?
Americans are among the most insular peoples of any western nation they many know football but not much about the world they live in.
If gas prices at the pump go to 10 bucks a gallon because of a war here. how popular then will Israel be? When your banks collapse and people lose their savings because the government hasn’t got enough to fund the also bankrupt FDIC who gets blamed?
Uncle, I am sure you will agree with me, Americans are friends of Israel and we recognize Israel as our ally.
It’s the stupid bastards and anti-Semitics we elected (mainly by not paying attention to the candidates and by not voting at all, the latter being the worst)
Let’s hope and pray we, Americans have come alive and realize our mistakes and do what is right.
I mentioned before a majority of Americans are really naive when it comes to really knowing Israel and the Jewish hatred.
I saved the video “The True Israel” and as I indicated, I already emailed it to friends who had no clue, sorry to say.
This particular video is enough to wet your appetite for more information.
I know I beat a dead horse but, I feel this country has a need to know the truth and the silent American Jews are of no help. They could collectively put together a super PR program to educate and expose the Jewish hatred and miss treatment of Israel. It isn’t as though they lack the talent to do so, it’s what they can and should do.
I know, ron doesn’t know what he is talking about!!
It’s more than just Jew hatred or even religion which it is but they all believe we stole their land and whether it is true or not they believe it so they will always consider all of us occupiers of their land. Piece of Peace Paper or not there will always be among them large enough groups that will always no matter what to seek replacing us with themselves and there will always be terror. That is as long as we allow them to live within and next to our lands. Solution is only to drive them away far away as possible or kill them all. killing is preferable as they will always breed new generations who will be taught we stole their lands, they will hate us and always some will try to regain their lands. That’s how it works in the middle East. You should always kill your enemy, saves Jewish lives in the future.
From FDR to Hussein not one deserve higher than an F where Israel is concerned. America is not our friend and certainly not an ally. America has caused directly and indirectly thousands of Israeli lives and will cause many more unless we get some leaders with some spine and Jewish Big Huevous.
Bill,
1. Not in the cards
2. Best solution
That makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it. The US leadership is afraid to take a stance for what is right. Score leadership F Minus.
Nothing like the present to start and by G-d don’t give anything up.
By now you think the Pals would realize they are being used by Hamas, the Iranian proxy and are looked upon as nothing more than tools used against Israel and nothing more.
Real secure and sustainable peace can only come in two ways:
1. The Arabs/Palestinians rid themselves of their Jew/Israel hatred and give up on the Islamic manifest destiny notions of taking back for Islam, that which was once under Islam’s domain. That will take a generation or two, if the Palestinians and Arabs start now. No sign of that happening any time soon.
2. Another cataclysmic Mid East war that Israel wins, devastates her neighbors including Iran and militarily reigns supreme in the region for a long time.
I don’t see that happening anytime soon, unless Iran gets a real itchy trigger finger and decides to act on her Jew hating impulses. In spite of whatever fear or even hatred the Sunni nations have for Iran, their ummah binds them together with Iran in their hatred of Israel. If Israel appears weak and finally ready to be wiped out, the likelihood is that the Sunni nations and the Palestinians would fall in with Iran and attack.
As much as America aids Israel financially and militarily, she undermines Israel’s security by arming Israel’s enemy neighbors and helping to train them in combat.
The net result is that Israel must maintain a status quo, giving up nothing while dancing around the idea of peace that she desperately wants, but which Abbas is in no position to deliver, even if he does want that, which is highly questionable.
Palestinian population transfer, forced or induced by cash, etc. just will not happen. If however, the Palestinian economy worsens and the world finally tires of giving welfare monies for the Palestinians to only squander, the economy will collapse and the Palestinians themselves will seek greener pastures.
Israel’s most costly intelligence errors are associated with the
misreading of the intentions of Egypt prior to the 1973 Yom
Kippur War and, later, those of the PLO with the signing of the
1993 Oslo Accord. For this reason, a peace treaty cannot
ultimately safeguard Israeli security.
Defensible Borders on the Golan Heights
– Maj.-Gen. (res.) Giora Eiland
Israeli-Syrian negotiations in 1999-2000 discussed security arrangements to compensate Israel for the loss of the Golan Heights. The idea was to guarantee that in case of war, IDF forces could quickly return to the place where they are currently stationed. This analysis demonstrates that Israel does not possess a plausible solution to its security needs without the Golan Heights. Not only was the “solution” proposed in the year 2000 implausible at the time, but changing circumstances have rendered Israel’s forfeiture of the Golan today an even more reckless act.
Same ol’ same ol’ Moshav Leitzim.