Chit Chat

By Ted Belman

From now on comments on every post must relate to the content of the post.

Comments that don’t relate to the post must go here.

Any person who contravenes this demand will be put on moderation. Also their offending comment will be trashed.

The reason for this demand is so that people who want to read comments which pertain to the post, don’t have to wade through the chatter.

Everyone will be happier.

April 16, 2020 | 8,670 Comments »

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50 Comments / 8670 Comments

  1. @Sebastien Zorn

    How about printing a copy of the alphabet page (Hebrew/Sound/Print/Cursive) and copying it by hand a few times a day until you memorize it?

    Print:
    https://www.etsy.com/listing/1875798947/hebrew-alphabet-chart-8-x-10?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_-art_and_collectibles&utm_custom1=_k_EAIaIQobChMIipidxO_kiwMVCkB_AB04djSAEAQYAiABEgIRRfD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_21500569338_164907277163_707558291657_pla-314954651933_c__1875798947_372810465&utm_custom2=21500569338&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIipidxO_kiwMVCkB_AB04djSAEAQYAiABEgIRRfD_BwE

    Cursive:
    https://www.etsy.com/listing/1262522042/hebrew-alphabet-letters-aleph-bet-canvas?click_key=31dfda1b21fc02f0b0f3a553f9152d00beb57a54%3A1262522042&click_sum=7fd0ef31&external=1&rec_type=cs&ref=pla_similar_listing_top-6&pro=1

    Pick any chart you like and print it for copying by hand:
    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&q=hebrew+alphabet+chart

    Then you can try writing short words the same way:
    Hebrew word frequency list (10,000 words downloadable as PDF):
    https://www.teachmehebrew.com/hebrew-frequency-list.html

    You can print the list into a PDF just by using the PRINT function in Firefox.

    A lot (or maybe most) of the stuff on the above website is FREE.

  7. Hi, Sebastien

    Vietnamese is the only language I was (Level 3) fluent in; but through lack of use, I lost that quickly.

    You can pick up Biblical Hebrew pretty quickly, because most of Tanach only uses some 800 words. I’ve tried at times to read and recite it at pace — mostly when I was in the conversion program for a year; but it was too much. I would start reading the Amidah during the service, but only get in about a line or two before everyone else sat down. I would then just “fake it” and sit down.

    When I want to study a word in depth, I have many tools at hand to get the whole meaning. Sometimes it’s quick and easy, but sometimes time-consuming.

  10. @Sebastien
    The link works for me. It takes you to an archived PDF of 23 Reasons which can be downloaded. It is 100 pages long and it can be downloaded. Your not being able to access it may be related to the browser or virus protection which you are using, just a thought. This is the only link for 23 Reasons which still works, to my knowledge.

    And yes, he was one of the original founders, but this was well before I came to Israpundit, which was back in 2006-7.

  13. @Reader

    I tried to find his 23 Reasons article but it is not archived – the links are dead or absent:

    Not all of them:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20060501000000/http://www.onestateplan.com/23-Reasons.pdf

    I highly recommend it for those who have not read it.

    I recall that Felix had proposed that he would be rewriting this tome specifically from the perspective of a Trotskyite (not to be confused with a communist), but I am not sure what came of that undertaking.

  14. @Sebastien
    Thank you for moving this to Chit Chat.

    Who was Norland, did he found Israpundit, how long ago, and has Felix been commenting since then?

    Norland was one of the co-founders of Israpundit as I understand it, and I believe that this was about 23yrs ago. And yes, Felix has been commenting since most of that time, though he has shunned us of his comments during long absences following significant disputes which have arisen.

  15. TANNA-

    I believe that you have not deliberately set out to offend.

    That being as it may, you continue to do so by a continuous series of misstatements, and downright untruths. Face to face means nothing to me. I write exactly as I speak.

    Examples; You say what you believe is correct. This, in the face of the massive pile of FACTUAL, Confirmed evidence I’ve presented you with, which you totally ignored…I didn’t make it up, it was all FACT verified by the best experts excluding your aversion to Ehrman, who, in many cases was on the same side. yet you didn’t even consider any of it enough to discuss it.

    YOU FOLLOW EVERY CHRISTIAN WRITING AND MADE UP STORY AS ABSOLUTE TRUTH as you’ve shown now and before. Yet lies and forgeries have been glaringly exposed by certified experts. It is even mentioned on the Internet.

    You tell me that “you” (meaning me) hate Christians, when you know I’ve reiterated that I DON’T hate Christians but Christianity, And I mentions several glaring historical reasons. Yet you persistently twist the truth.

    Just yesterday I posted that Michael and I, although often at odds, are true friends, and HE is a really devoted Christian. You ignore even this.

    You say “i don’t hold to Christian tenets”…YET you parrot every word in the Gospels and believe those and other firmly proven forgeries and lies.

    So ,…you know Orthodox Jews.. I doubt they are truly Orthodox, as you’ve shown amply that you are totally ignorant of orthodox practicing Jewry.

    You show in your post that you have no idea as to the deliberations of the Rabbis in the Tslmud, you mentioned. None at all, because you are not a Talmudic scholar which is neccessary, and you are not a Jew -with Jewish Ethos.

    There you go again.. ONLY CHRISTIANS believe that the Gospels were written by Jews. Ample proof is available on any non sectarian site showing that NONE was a Jew and they were NOT written in Palestine. This view is espoused even by Christian experts. The evidence for a Luke is only a mention in a Gospel, which itself is anonymous, and none knows that it’s the same Luke a common Gentile name,’And “physicians in those days “cured” by writing a spell on a piece of papyrus and with spittle sticking it on the ailing spot. Physicians…..Bah…..!!

    {Galen the Father of physicians, and a prolific writer, provably complained that there were over 200 forgeries in his name”..

    I’ll stop here from banging my head against a stone wall, and because I’m fed up.
    I hope this isn’t too long to post.

    1

  17. Michael, I concur. I always found Yeshua’s comments in the story or parable amusing when he tells the guy…… If they/you will not believe Moses and the Prophets, how can they believe one who comes back from the dead? Paraphrasing of course.

  18. Edgar, I apologize if I have offended you. As I stated before, this form of communication is extremely hard because we cannot talk face-to-face. Communication is much more than words on a page.

    I never meant any remark or comment, I’ve made to be taken as an a hominem attack. That was never my intention. I, just as you, believe that what I believe is correct. It is my truth. I also know that as long as I’m alive and learning I will change my opinions and hopefully grow in knowledge. If we fail to do that then we are already dead inside and don’t know it.

    We each have our opinions and so be it. I do not try to convert you as a Jew to Christianity. You have a hatred for Christians. But it is misplaced…. I cannot be a Christian when I do NOT hold to the Christian tenets of the religion.

    I know Orthodox Jews who believe/think that the historical Nazarene was or could have been or IS the Messiah, but they admit they will not know for certain until the messiah shows his FACE. Messiah is to be understood on many different levels.

    A Historical fact, there have been many who thought they were messiahs, and many people who followed them, but to this day they have ALL failed to establish the Kingdom of God here on this earth. Progress has been made toward that point, but we have not yet arrived. Although, I have Preterist friends lost in that delusion.

    Try holding 5 different viewpoints in your mind all at the same time and they must disagree with each other, and all be valid. They may seem confused and not valid from one perspective but not from another. All five viewpoints are valid, but our brains will not allow us to fuse all of them into one coherent whole homogenously.

    The Rabbis in the Jewish writings do this all the time. You can’t read one page of text without 3 to 5 or more opinions. Which one is right? They can’t be all correct when they are in opposition to each other, Can they? Yes! They can – our job is to study the text given to us by our forefathers and understand what they are trying to transmit to us.

    I know you will not agree with this. Every writer of the New Testament except maybe Luke, was a JEW living in the first century. Each of these Jews of the first century are not and were not ignorant unlearned men. Those who have dug deep into their writings (scholars) say as much. They were very well educated in their day. Just because Peter was a fisherman does not = low education. The man had a business. They were schooled in the Torah and writings and all the traditions that had been handed down.

    Instead of casting these Jews of the first century as a bunch of liars, charlatans, and scammers, I take the position to try to understand where they are coming from and what they are saying.

    Any who, no harm meant. I am just a few years past 60 and anyone older than I is an ole man. That is not to be taken as a derogatory comment. We have earned every one of our wrinkles and white hair. I was just “pokin” you a little, having fun. I apologize it was not meant to offend.

    Peace brother!

  19. MICHAEL-

    Yes we’re long time pals and adversaries.. But your heart is in the right place and we both enjoy our mutual quibbles.

    As for Tanna, it’s different. A guy who denies he’s a Christian but who believes, and shouts out every single word in the Gospels, even the identified forgeries, and even later fantasy stories, word for word, letter for letter (like in your joint post) is seriously confused. (I politely use a euphemism)

    And to Cap it all, writes that I… (meaning ME) say I understand the workings of our Creator, is accusing me of being for me sinful, arrogant, narcissistic and blatantly WRONG.

    W-R-O-N-G…

    Never have I ever given this impression anywhere at ANY time. Never will………………… When I’m accused unjustly….I fight back..always… !!

    SEB assumed they were af hominem attacks, and maybe to him, they were, but he didn’t know the full reason.

    One more thing Mike. How did you get your post and Tanna’s together as if ONE post??? Computer trick??

  20. @Felix
    Continued from https://www.israpundit.org/unmasking-comedian-zelenskys-deception-and-his-true-role-in-the-war-on-the-global-stage/#comment-63356000285619

    your action against me was both extreme in its obvious hatred

    Nonsense, I don’t agree with you, but I don’t hate you. This is a silly notion.

    you using your never before used measure of taking away my free expression to rightful criticism

    Your ad hominem attacks are not rightful criticism and you are hardly the first person who was warned against using abusive banter in place of logical discussions.

    a savage attack INCLUDED on me being a “Communist” not making clear that I being a Trotskyist Communist is far more a fighter against Stalinism also.

    I don’t actually distinguish between the nuances of Communism and Trotskyism, so you have me here, though my comment could hardly have been a “savage attack” because I don’t use ad hominem. Feel free to try to show otherwise.

  21. Hi, Edgar. You said,

    Michael is a friend despite our differences.

    I think you’re right on both counts, Edgar.

    Tanna, For a couple of guys who believe they have a proper understanding of the God of Israel, it never ceases to amaze me why Edgar and I have so many disagreements. I see no profit in endless, pointless arguments, as, indeed, MY “bible” (as Edgar puts it) commands me not to engage in such things. Edgar, on the other hand.seems to have grown up in a culture (rabbinic Judaism) that encourages continual, repeated debating. This is the way it is: I admit that this is a constant source of irritation, and I apologize for the many times I have taken this all personally and have been VERY offended.

    I pray for Edgar often, and genuinely do care for him, and I think he knows it. I’ll stop there, for fear that we might end up arguing about it.

    Tanna,

    concerning your reference to Yeshua ben Yosef meNetrzat, whom I receive as ha Meshiach, called “Jesus Christ” by most, we have talked in times past about him.

    The New Testament almost always refers to Jesus as explicitly a human being, the physical son of Joseph and Mary. Nearly every Christian rejects this idea; but in my opinion, they don’t understand what they’re talking about.

    On the other hand, I accept that this Jesus is THE Anointed One (Messiah) that God has sent to teach us the correctly balanced understanding (namely, agape) of Torah. He has paid his “dues” with his own flesh and blood, and been rewarded by God with eternal life through a historically recorded resurrection from the dead. Today and throughout eternity, he stands next to the one God, the King of the Universe, at the Great Throne. He offers as many as believe on him eternal life, and the gift of the holy spirit.

    Of course, I accept these things as true BECAUSE of my trust in him; and they are impossible to attain without such a faith. As Jesus himself said to the unbelieving Jews of his day, he will not offer them any “sign” or “proof”, other than that a day of reckoning will come in which we will all stand before God’s throne and be judged by this same man Jesus.

    All of this was rehearsed before the Jewish leaders by Stephen, as attested to in Acts 6 & 7.

  22. SEB-

    Not exactly “ALL”, some are perpetual opponents, friendly yes, but not friends.

    For instance Michael is a friend despite our differences. Whereas Tanna persists in dispute by twisting and falsifications, despite positive evidence to the contrary.

    His personal references to me, quoting real facts, are derogatory.

    So…friendly but not friends. No matter…. perhaps one day, when he grows up, we will be.

    So Seb, don’t upset yourself about it.

  25. Tanna-

    If your reference to “the old man” means me, it sounds pejorative enough to take exception to. If not Well, I’m glad you gave him some amusement.
    I myself am not amused- only incredulous at the stupidity of a supposedly normal individual.

    I/n your peroration, you have another of your glaring mistakes (where would we be without them)

    I HAVE NO BOOK OF HEBREWS. I am 100% JEW…Christians have a book of Hebrews and 26 others as ridiculous , lying, and plain stupidly written from a dark age in history.
    (I don’t count the much plagiarised Tanach as part of the Christian bible)

    Have you “GOT THAT”…? …..GOOD.. jusr remember it.. add it to your twisted reasoning for having several of Ehrman’s derided books which excuse only a fool would believe….and I am NO fool.

  26. TANNA-

    I can ,understand the Muslim’s feeling and attitude.
    But remember he comes from a society which believes in magic, djinni, and…yes.. miracles.

    I don’t, I am rational, although a believing Jew in the quality and qualities of my People.

    I believe in accident, congruency, of unrelated events leading to a bad event ..or a seeming “miracle”..(what might be called fate). etc. As time progresses so do events which can only be “foretold”, by intelligent, far seeing deduction, not always successfully (which are forgotten) sometimes successfully (which are lauded to the sky)

    The long list of links are those seized upon to bring the speaker to prominence-and some money-, virtually the same as the blaring front page headlines of the yellow papers.
    tey flare burst into stars like a firework, and in 2-3 days are forgotten-untill the next miracle..

    My belief only which you might think cynical. So be it.

    I don’t know which old man you refer to nut if me, I’m not amused nor am I happy that you are.

    WHY keep maling glaring mistakes. I am 100% JEW and have no Christian book of REVELATION , Christians like you have one, It’s stupidity, bogus “revalations ” come from a dark era in history, and should go back there

    Your reason for having so many of the derided Ehrman’s books wouldn’t fool any but a very simple 5 year old Twisted is YOUR word, and you seem to love it’s results.
    When your thoughts are settled down into rationality-if ever- or the closest toit, you may be able to communicate lucidly again…I hope so.

    1

  27. Edgar, take a look at this Muslim, you can believe him he’s a scholar.

    https://www.israelunwired.com/muslim-scholar-gives-bombshell-answer-to-how-muslims-will-respect-israel/?utm_source=israelunwired.com&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=muslim-scholar-gives-bombshell-answer-to-how-muslims-will-respect-israel-hilarious-elon-musk-proposes-new-law-for-anti-israel-protesters-brigitte-gabriel-stuns-reporter-with-the-truth-about-gaza-that-no-one-will-say-out-loud&_bhlid=8c6df8b8e6a6f8f54a3fb9445d14355359d3c7b1

  28. @ Edgar, Reader, SEB, and anyone else who cares to butt in!
    Edgar, you are so much fun. I do learn things from your post. READER, you are never butting in the more people who poke the ole man, we just keep his heart pumping and his mind sharp. Also, many thanks for the Hebrew links…. we got to get started learning the language of the whole world. Coming soon to a town near all of us. Anthony Gifford looks interesting.

    Edgar, the reason I have Erhamns books is that, I like books, and part of my journey in search for spiritual truth is through the -shitpile of Erhamns work and it seems I would rather break up the furniture to build a fire than burn books, even those written by the spawn of Satan. I even have a couple written by Darwin – what a monkey.

    Reader, thanks for the link I will check them out.

    SEB, thanks for the refresher, numbers in the bible hint and point us to many discoveries. Edgar, quoting SEB,… According to Chabad, the number 40 in Judaism signifies a period of significant transformation, testing, or preparation, often representing a transition from one spiritual state to another, as seen in stories like Moses spending 40 days on Mount Sinai receiving the Torah, or the 40 days of rain during Noah’s flood, symbolizing a renewal or new beginning; essentially, “40” represents a critical juncture in a person’s spiritual journey where a major change occurs…. Edgar, I’m praying for you to get 120 years so you can reach your change and transformation.

    Thanks, Michael for the 69X news site. One thing we are all witnessing and it’s going on around the world – there is change coming. Zech. 4:6 told us, Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, says the Lord of hosts. As the younger generation would say, this “Lord of Hosts” is a bad dude. LORD OF HOSTS (?????? ????????, yhwh tseva’oth). A phrase describing Hashem’s role as the Lord of the heavenly armies, the commander of the cosmic forces, the head of the divine council, and the leader of Israel’s army (Wildberger, Isaiah, 29–30; Zobel, “Tseva’oth,” 220). The phrase “Lord of Hosts” communicates God’s role as a warrior who fights both in the cosmic conflict against divine forces and through human historical events for His people, Israel. (exactly what we see goin on in the world).

    Edgar, I’m glad you got a laugh. I learned that twisting in Isaiah from a PHD Bible scholar while visiting the land of Israel, we were down in the Judean desert near Masada and he was X-plaining what had happened right on the spot we stood, 2500 years earlier. I knew enough to know he was pullin’ it out his ears…. But it sounds good coming from a Ph.D. Bible expert (Scholar).. Remember logic and reason will only take you so far… then the great leap of faith. Your book – Hebrews 11:6 says “Without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

    No attacks on Torah, I just simply accept there are things I don’t understand and can’t comprehend. It’s NOT that the TORAH is wrong, or the RABBIS are wrong, our job is to try to understand what is being passed down to us.

    There is a very interesting study and lots of information by the Rabbis on this idea of Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David, been looking at it for 30 years. My personal learned opinion is that Yeshua/Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah we all wait for. But, you have to remove all the lies that have been told about him and place him back in his day as a righteous Jew of his time period, He was not an ignorant carpenter – he set and discussed with the leading teachers of his day. To understand the man better you have to understand his mission, just like King Saul. on the first read, you would think both men failed. But, not really, both men did and accomplished exactly what was supposed to happen.
    In the future— messiah will be who he will be and we shall all be happy- makes no never mind to me what his name is/was as a boy. Except for the sons of Amalek, they are not going to be too happy. That Lord of Host is going to destroy them.

    Take care my Friend and when you get a minute pull out that Torah Reverand Johnson gave you and try reading it with a little Faith.

  29. Hi, Sebastien. You said,

    @Michael Are you fluent in Hebrew?

    I’ve studied Vietnamese, German, Hebrew, Latin, Spanish, French and Russian, and was once fluent in Vietnamese and conversant in German. All this was years ago; but of course, I’ve forgotten much of my vocabulary. I also picked up a little Dutch, in studying genealogy.

    In the shorter version, I’m only technically “fluent” in English, which I struggle to keep abreast of. I’m surrounded by peolple who are fluent to varying degrees in Mandarin, Cantonese, Teochew and Japanese, which I can’t understand at all; and I require an interpreter to understand Scottish, Strine, Black and Indian English, and most people under 30.

    I once had a rabbi, who said his children could recite the daily parashot from memory, but had no idea what they were saying.

    Are we engaging in some sort of contest here? I’m not really interested in these games.

  31. @Reader Thank you. In going back to your original comment to copy allthis to my notepad, I see you included that information, as well,but I didn’t take it in, or connect it, somehow.

  33. @Michael Thank you though, while I did have to google, “Osint meaning ,” after reading Peloni’s comment, I don’t recall asking on Israpundit. As it happens, I used to follow Bongino’s podcasts and was bombarded with daily emails with links to his show. I liked him, but after a certain point, I didn’t find it that informative.

  35. @Reader If you google: yohay sponder instagram self-awareness, it’s the first one that comes up. I just assumed it was also on Youtube. For me, it popped up on Facebook as an instagram clip. It didn’t prompt me to create or sign into an account.
    The default is silent. You have to touch the little bell on the bottom right to get sound. Has Duolingo joke at the end. though it’s mainly about the wars. Very short. Has big close-captioning but his delivery in English is a big part of the humor..

    Yohay Sponder “Self-Awareness”

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGc0bVyI6DR/

  36. @Michael S. @Edgar G.

    In Judaism you are not supposed to read the original (Hebrew) text and make any kinds of conclusions off the top of your head.

    There are 13 rules of interpretation:

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&q=13+rules+of+torah+interpretation

    If some people choose to interpret what is written in their own way, it is their choice but it has nothing to do with the Orthodox decision making, interpretation, or stuff like that.

    This doesn’t mean that there are no debates, discussions, etc. on different issues in the Talmud.

    @Edgar – I am not implying that you are not familiar with it, on the contrary, I suspect that you may know way more about it than I do.

  37. Edgar, your statement

    It also in MY opinion solves the unsolvable issue of a critical part of the Exodus which no rational person could swallow.

    reveals your typical arrogance which, as a pardon to you, is shared by intellectual snobs worldwide.

    There is nothing in the text of Torah (onor objective reality), which would require not believing that 600,000 men, plus women and children, were miraculously provided for in the wilderness. Your continually resorting to esoteric interpretations (to which you and you alone have been initiated) for the simple text of the most widely read book of civilization, is your great downfall. How can anyone assign any weight to what you say?

  40. SEB-

    Here is an example of READER”s 3 letter root and etc.

    It also in MY opinion solves the unsolvable issue of a critical part of the Exodus which no rational person could swallow.

    “ALUF (alef ,lamed pe) means an army general, but also
    “Head of a family”…….ELEF means ….”thousand”..

    I think a misreading solves the impossible fact of 600,000 men, PLUS women, children etc prowling around Sinai for 40 years. Dying out gradually, and I’d think, by natural means multiplying perhaps by another 20%.

    Also the report of Joshua’s spies that the Canaanites were very strong and too numerous to be conquered.

    Also the Torah text that “I chose you being the smallest people”…

    So most likely the text could read “600 heads of families” or about 4-6,000 people in all.

    Recall that many Israelites stayed in Egypt, and those who left could have been a minority.

    Jist a reasoned opinion.

  42. @Sebastien Zorn

    Hebrew written without vowels is NOT the same as (for example) English written without vowels.

    Hebrew is based on roots and patterns where a (usually) 3-consonant root can form different but always related words depending on the pattern the vowel pattern (and some suffixes or prefixes) consonants happen to be in at the time.

    This is why the vowels were (and still are in many cases) ignored but eventually they had to be added.

    Also, every Diaspora Jewish language (like Yiddish, for example, and there were many of them) was written in Hebrew alphabet but in those cases vowels had to be added because other types of languages would be undecipherable without vowels.

    Hebrew letters used to be pictures (some of the Egyptian hieroglyphs were used), then the Hebrew letters changed their shapes significantly.

    If the English alphabet originated from pictures, we might be drawing an apple for letter A, a bee for B, a cat for C, a door for D, etc.

    Here is the book you may find helpful because it is bilingual and it shows pronunciation – it has Hebrew sentences in Hebrew letters on the right side of the page, the same sentences written in Hebrew with English letters on the left side, and an English translation of each word or sentence:

    Mastering Hebrew: Hear It, Speak It, Read It, Write It Paperback – January 1, 1988 by Joseph A. Reif (Author) ON AMAZON

    This is the same thing ONLINE to download for FREE plus it has all the audio on the page (website from which you will download the text):

    https://www.livelingua.com/course/fsi/Hebrew_-_Basic_Course

    Yes, many people find it boring but one can’t have everything especially FREE OF CHARGE.

  44. SEB-

    Sorry no intention of denigrating your intelligence. I felt you knew but i noted it to complete the topic.

    I have no problem reading unspaced English. The words leap out at you

    Came across astonishing info recently. There are over 45.000 different Christian sects around the globe………… The pope must be sitting on a hot griddle all the time.

  47. SEB-

    Although you feel that way, the letters are still grouped into words.
    They were most often strung together in ancient inscriptions where space was lacking like The Moabite Stone .

  48. SEB-

    Although you feel that way, the letters are still grouped into words.
    They were most often strung together in ancient inscriptions where space was lacking like The Moabite Stone

  50. SEB-

    Have you misspoken?? Are the words strung together deliberately for emphasis….? Repeating LETTERS without vowels is just repeating letters, recognising which letters they are. Like at the beginning.

    Is this supposed to mean something to me that I was not aware of??