Gaza cease-fire: ‘Israel’s goals met, Hamas achieved nothing’. Really?

Apparently, Israeli source: US will back Israel in Security Council

Israel will have American backing if a decision is made in the Security Council,” said the source. Most especially, said the government official, the US would be looking out for Israel’s security interests in the Gaza Strip. “The US will be sure that the issue of demilitarization will be included,” he said.

Both the US and the EU are trying to replace Hamas with Abbas. Psaki also said that Kerry has no plans to restart the peace process anytime soon.

There have also been reports that the US has been negotiating with Iran and Assad to cut a deal that the US would support Assad if he takes on Isis. Part of that deal required Iran to force Islamic Jihad to push for this ceasefire.

Well there you have it. That’s putting the best possible face on the ceasefire. It all depends on what the US intends to deliver. If they are committed to full demilitarization and replacing Hams with Abbas without any linkage to the peace process, then its a good deal. Time will tell.

Of course the naysayers, preferred to go it alone and not have international help, thereby avoiding any obligation to them and avoiding any suggestion that Hamas won anything. But even most of them were reluctant to fully destroy Hamas. Short of that, it appears that this deal has potential. That’s the best case scenario. It may be that Hamas will reject the cease fire because they are being forced to demilitarize and to give over to Abbas. In which case Israel will be in the same then as they are now with better international support. So that trying this doesn’t cost anything. Ted Belman

After 50 days of fighting, Israel and Hamas agree to open-ended cease-fire • Israeli official: A badly bruised Hamas was forced to accept the original terms • Talks on remaining issues, including Gaza demilitarization, to be held in one month.

Shlomo Cesana, Lilach Shoval, Daniel Siryoti, Yoni Hirsch and Israel Hayom Staff

Gazans assessing the damage, Tuesday | Photo credit: AFP

Fifty days after Operation Protective Edge was launched, an Egyptian-brokered cease-fire brought the fighting to an indefinite halt on Tuesday.

Under the terms of the open-ended truce, Israel will lift some of the restrictions on the flow of goods to the Gaza Strip — a step that is primarily designed to help reconstruction efforts — and expand the area where Gazans can fish. In addition, Egypt will open the Rafah Crossing.
According to the agreement, the two sides are to hold more talks in one month to discuss remaining issues. Israel wants the demilitarization of the Gaza Strip and Hamas has insisted on the construction of a seaport and an airport in Gaza.

“The operation’s objectives — a long-term calm and inflicting substantial damage to terrorist infrastructure — have been met,” an Israeli government official said on Tuesday. “The cease-fire is open-ended, and Hamas’ tunnel network and rocket-launching capabilities have been damaged,” the official added. When the two sides convene for further talks, Israel will seek the return of the remains of Staff Sgt. Oron Shaul and Lt. Hadar Goldin, who were killed during the fighting. Hamas will most likely ask Israel to release Hamas operatives who were taken captive.

Israeli officials emphasized that there were no direct talks with Hamas because the Palestinian delegation was headed by a Palestinian Authority official. A source close to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the cease-fire was “not an arrangement; it is a cease-fire.” The source said that “a comprehensive deal will be possible only after the two sides discuss the various demands in a month’s time.”

Another Israeli government official noted that Israel did not “lift the blockade” and that by agreeing to the cease-fire, Hamas accepted the terms it had rejected earlier. Israeli officials further noted that Hamas did not get what it wanted on a whole host of issues: the payment of the salaries of Hamas employees, the construction of a seaport and an airport, and the release of Hamas-affiliated inmates, including those from the 2011 Schalit prisoner swap who were rearrested as part of Operation Brother’s Keeper in June. Hamas also tried unsuccessfully to have Qatar step in as the mediator and to agree on an expiration date for the cease-fire, the official said.

Israeli officials added that Hamas asked to have the border crossings reopen but Israel had already done so by the time the cease-fire was finalized. They added that Hamas wanted to see scenes of destruction in Tel Aviv as a result of the rocket fire and it also tried perpetrate a spectacular attack with heavy casualties. But neither scenario materialized, denying the organization of the “victory images” it had sought, the officials said.

“Hamas was badly hurt,” an official said, noting that Israel would insist any new U.N. Security Council resolution on Gaza call for the coastal enclave’s demilitarization and that dual-use commodities be subject to an international inspection regime to ensure they would not be used for terrorist purposes such as tunnels and rocket-production facilities.

A military official said that the operation’s endgame was very much like what Israel had envisioned: “A bruised Hamas ultimately embraced the Egyptian cease-fire proposal; Cairo remained the only mediator, as Israel insisted; there was a major schism inside Hamas in the run-up to the truce, in no small part because the Gaza Strip and the organization had paid a heavy price.” The official added, “Just in the past week, Israel attacked more than 300 targets, and dozens of terrorists were killed. The celebrations in the Gaza Strip are not that important, because even if there was only one Palestinian left he would say that his side had won; it will take about 10 years to rebuild the Gaza Strip.”

Netanyahu did not ask the Diplomatic-Security Cabinet to sign off on the cease-fire, but Netanyahu associates said the move was greenlighted by the attorney-general. Some ministers said Netanyahu may have forgone a vote for fear he might lose. At least four Diplomatic-Security members voiced their opposition to the terms of the agreement: Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, Economy and Trade Minister Naftali Bennett, Communications Minister Gilad Erdan and Public Security Minister Yitzhak Aharonovitch.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said Tuesday that the United States welcomed the newly announced cease-fire. “We strongly support today’s cease-fire agreement, and call on all parties to fully and completely comply with its terms. … We are all aware that this is an opportunity, not a certainty,” Kerry said in a statement. The U.S., which will serve as the U.N. Security Council president for the month of September, said it will introduce a resolution that would help implement the cease-fire and facilitate the demilitarization of Gaza.

Meanwhile, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas unveiled a new diplomatic initiative on Tuesday. Abbas, who announced the move during a live television address, said the Palestinian Authority would ask the Security Council to set a deadline for Israel’s withdrawal from Judea and Samaria.

A senior Palestinian official said that Abbas would also like to see international forces stationed along the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip to “protect the Palestinian people from the Israeli aggression.”

Abbas associates said that the PA would take legal action against Israel in The Hague, home to the International Criminal Court and the International Court of Justice. The official did not rule out the possibility that Abbas would step down from his post. He noted that inaction on the part of the international community may result in Abbas’ departure, in which case Abbas would dissolve the Palestinian Authority and Israel would have to administer Palestinian cities in Judea and Samaria.

August 27, 2014 | 37 Comments »

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  1. With the Fanatic Pal alive, Abbas has no chance. If the fana are eliminated, Abbas may not be willing or able to compromise. He does not want to end-up like Sadat.

  2. @ bernard ross:

    This is the song, ” Louisiana Man” referred to in the Alabama song. Alabama made the horrendous error of playing the song without a fiddle drawing outrage in Texas. Look at Kershaw’s face, there is some suspicion that there are Sephardic Jews among the Cajuns of The Louisianan.

    http://youtu.be/Z2WVkpxNxmw

  3. Abbas slams Hamas for intransigence during Gaza op
    Palestinian leader stresses Gaza terror group cannot dictate outbreak of war: ‘That’s not unity; it is not reconciliation.’
    The PA leader stressed that the project of rehabilitating the Gaza Strip would only be undertaken by the Palestinian Authority.
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2C7340%2CL-4565455%2C00.html

    Looks like Hamas doesn’t understand the deal…..the unity thing seems to be fraying already……abbas saying if you want the money you will have to do it my way…………….
    “what we’ve got here is a failure to communicate”
    (already)

  4. yamit82 Said:

    Photo of the Day

    Great photo, I think the destruction, if widespread will be difficult to overlook. I saw a video of one of the towers taken down and the civilians were in a state of fright. I think that Hams using them as shields may have been a blessing in that the civilian support base suffered directly which must affect morale negatively. I take no stock in hamas parades and celebrations, it is easy for them to get a few thousand loyal supporters and stage a pallywood.

    I found the Indyk interview interesting in a couple of ways: I am wondering if the talk of going to the UN for a withdrawal time was originated by the obama admin?

    and then there was this comment which led me to believe that either they were incredibly naive or trying to link Israeli “popular sentiment” with their agenda. I would not be surprised if they were operating covertly in this regard. I have seen them do this first hand elsewhere.

    Indyk: But the sentiment in Israel, the popular sentiment, was to go all the way, to topple Hamas, to take over Gaza, and then somehow hand it over to the Palestinian Authority.

    note the linking of the deposing of hamas with the installation of abbas and painting it as a popular israeli sentiment. They have been known to influence media and polls.
    and there is this possible indication of the future:

    Indyk:…And now, as you suggest, there may be a new justification for the relationship, in which the United States, as it withdraws from the Middle East, looks to adopt an offshore balancing approach in which Israel, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia become the pillars of an attempt to construct a new order in the region out of the chaos that’s engulfing it. At the moment that doesn’t seem to be the way it’s developing, because the United States seems to be on the other side of this alignment when it comes to the negotiations with Iran or our tension with Egypt or our reluctance to act in Syria. But I think over time it’s probable that that realignment will be something that the United States ends up getting behind and that will provide a new justification for the U.S.-Israel relationship.

    this appears to agree with my speculation that the US will be returning to its past and usual relationship mode (saudi,Egypt,etc)which in turn infers that the current one is a sham, or a red herring.

  5. Bear Klein Said:

    @ honeybee:

    Pastrami in lieu of bacon that is interesting, as I like pastrami both beef and turkey pastrami.

    You wanted a good idea, I gave you one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. yamit82 Said:

    Countdown to Israel’s Destruction
    you cannot win a war on the ground if you don’t fight the war of the airwaves. The latter has nothing to do with “Hasbarah” and everything to do with strategic power.
    http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/countdown-to-israels-destruction/#ixzz3BiynOcT5

    Hasbara and Lawfare have been severely neglected over many years. It is not taken seriously and not seen as another battle theater. If Israel dealt with this like it does cyberwarfare it can be turned around. No one is getting the real story.

  7. yamit82 Said:

    So why is Hamas attacking?

    hamas attacked because Israel attacked them in the west bank. Their leaders say that they did the 3 teens but it was not known to the leadership. Certain leaders like zahar are affiliated with Iran and the one with the most to gain by sparking the conflict was Iran. Also, they have been cut off from their Iran support and were running out of money

    They continued with their folly because they wanted a better deal in the next phase and needed something to show the dead gazans.

  8. yamit82 Said:

    if you look at the overall strategic situation, what you see is a steady deterioration in Israel’s position, both militarily and diplomatically.

    I dont agree: their years long tunnel program was thwarted their rockets had minimal success, they lost commanders, etc. Hamas hardly had one victory other than survival and their “staying power” was Pyrrhic as it just caused them more destruction.

    Personally I believe the destroyed buildings and infrastructure and the body count, especially of civilians is very important. Part of war is the morale of the population and I dont believe, from photos and videos of destruction that the civilian deaths and suffering will not significantly impact hamas future. I just watched a video of the tower bombing and the civilians afterwards running with their babies,none of them looked like martyrdom was interesting to them.

    It doesn’t look to me to be a steady military deterioration. IDF was successful in all their attempts and engagements and in getting what they were instructed to do. They appear to have been quite effective in integrating real time intelligence and the battlefield. There may, or may not, be a political deterioration in authorizing engagements and most certainly a PR and lawfare deterioration but I do not understand why you would post that as you have always stated that PR and Lawfare are ineffective tools not worth pursuing, to which I disagree. Furthermore, it looks to me that the “flying camels” have been quite effective in real time efficient target selection which will also be quite useful in lawfare wrt the GC.
    yamit82 Said:

    After the last Intifada, Israel’s enemies realized that suicide bombing alone cannot achieve their desired goal – the destruction of the Jewish state. So what they embarked on is a three-pronged strategy that involves low-level conflict and terror, combined with the development and production of weapons of mass destruction…

    none of this helped them and all of it failed miserably. they got less than gaza had when they took over from the PA
    yamit82 Said:

    ….an unrelenting media war designed to isolate Israel and create the international atmosphere necessary for its elimination.

    the media war and lawfare are the areas of failure but even that is improving based on Israels conduct, hamas war crimes, the hard facts and Israels
    military decisions. Israels conduct and hamas blatant war crimes increased Israels standing so that when the most intense latest bombings occurred with gloves starting to pull off there was hardly any protest from the usual foreign sources.
    yamit82 Said:

    They have succeeded on all three fronts.

    the author kissed the blarney stone

  9. @ Ted Belman:

    The Gaza Illusion

    “why Hamas decided to pick a fight with Israel at this particular time. What’s in it for Hamas? The West has fallen for all the clichés: Hamas wants to end the “occupation”. But there is no occupation. There hasn’t been a single Israeli soldier or settler in Gaza since the evacuation of Gush Katif in 2005. Maybe Hamas is fighting to end the “embargo”. Really? They’ve been shooting thousands of rockets at Israel. How did these rockets get into Gaza if the “embargo” is so air-tight? How did they build 3 kilometer long concrete terror tunnels under the border with Israel, if they have no building materials?

    Get The Times of Israel’s Daily Edition by email
    and never miss our top stories Free Sign up!

    So why is Hamas attacking?

    _____________________________________________________________
    “So what’s in it for Gaza? Nothing. What’s in it for Hamas? Continued sponsorship from Iran. What’s in it for Iran? A global distraction while their centrifuges continue to spin.”

    I think this time Gaza took a back seat to Russia/Ukraine, ISIS Blitzkrieg in Iraq and Syria, downing of civilian plane and in America racial violence in St Louis. Add the silence of most Arab regimes and the Arab League we hardly made the news. Lots of distractions away from Iran. (Yamit)

  10. honeybee Said:

    Just hear on FX news the Joan Rivers is very seriously ill after surgery.

    On Joan’s bucket list – to do standup comedy in Gaza

    Splash News Online asked her about the nearly 2,000 Palestinian killed over the last month since Israel launched military operations in Gaza in response to Hamas rocket attacks.

    “When you declare war, you declare war,” Rivers said. “They started it. We now don’t count who’s dead. You’re dead. You deserve to be dead. You started it. You started it. Don’t you dare make me feel sad about that.”

    Rivers compared Israel’s operations against Gaza to the United States’ dropping atomic bombs on Japan 69 years ago.

    “You were told to get out, you don’t get out, then you know you’re an idiot, and at least the ones that were killed were the ones with very low IQs,” Rivers said.

    loving it

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/07/showbiz/joan-rivers-israel-gaza/index.html

  11. @ bernard ross:
    bernard ross Said:

    Ted Belman Said:

    It is immaterial how many Gazans were killed, they’ll grow back, or how many buildings were destroyed, the West will replace them, or how many rockets they expended. What matters is, have they lost control of Gaza. They live for resistance. No resistance, no Hamas.


    Countdown to Israel’s Destruction

    If you count bodies and destroyed homes, Israel won the round. But if you look at the overall strategic situation, what you see is a steady deterioration in Israel’s position, both militarily and diplomatically. After the last Intifada, Israel’s enemies realized that suicide bombing alone cannot achieve their desired goal – the destruction of the Jewish state. So what they embarked on is a three-pronged strategy that involves low-level conflict and terror, combined with the development and production of weapons of mass destruction and an unrelenting media war designed to isolate Israel and create the international atmosphere necessary for its elimination. They have succeeded on all three fronts.

    Read More

  12. @ Ted Belman:

    The U.S.-Israel Relationship Arrives at a Moment of Reckoning

    So I don’t believe that the White House intended now to withhold weapons or missiles in order to get Israel to stop firing. The fact of the matter is the Israelis wanted to stop the firing. It was a question of how to get Hamas to stop firing the rockets.

    An exclusive talk with former U.S. Special Envoy Martin Indyk on Israel’s new allies, the Gaza blowup, and why Washington shrugged when the peace process collapsed.

    Photo of the Day

  13. drjb Said:

    . Egyptians hate israelis even more than they hate Hamas.

    Certainly those who belong to the MB or are sympathetic.

    As for the rest time will tell, the dust hasn’t settled and there is still a lot we do not know yet.

    Asymmetrical warfare is a different ballgame than between conventional nation states. Did America defeat the Cong, did the French before them? Did the British defeat the Mau Mau or the Mujahedin in Afghanistan? Did America after her longest war in Afghanistan or Iraq? Israel hasn’t won a war since the Yom Kippur war and America hasn’t won a war since WW2 unless you count mighty Granada. The Russians got their butts kicked by Japan in 1905 and haven’t won a war on their own since and that includes Afghanistan… Victors in hot conflicts now are determined by the points system and the resulting political landscape resulting from those indecisive conflicts in most cases. It’s called today the limitations of power. How many Nukes do the Russians or Americans need for weapons they will probably never use?

    It’s been proven that air-power can effect outcomes of conflicts but can’t win them on their own. Israel has shown that we can withstand massive Rocket attacks as long as they are not accurate but if they were and the Iron Dome and other systems fail then our responses would or should be different.

    On a tactical Level Israel could have in the first few days taken Gaza and gotten to both the political and military leadership and I don’t think we would have lost many more soldiers than we have already.

    It’s a given that BB rejected this option and you can fill in the blank__________ as to why.

    Question remains, do we really want Hamas taken out, leaving the playing field open to the PA, the Israeli left,Obama and EU??? Consider that the PA is playing Good Cop Bad Cop against us using Hamas as the Bad Cop and Fatah and Abbas as the Good Cop. They are just two sides of the same coin and it’s a mistake to view them separately. BB is seems has bought into that narrative and also seems to want to play ball with Abbas, if he can sell it at home?????

    Stupid Israelis look today at the 2nd Lebanon War and say well it was a fiasco but in hindsight it bought us 8 years of quiet in the North. Those same ignoramus’s do not credit that quiet to Iran holding Hezbollah back less they prematurely lose their client surrogate before they are needed to protect Iran from an Israeli attack. Nor have they factored in the participation of Hezbollah in defense of Assad and are thus preoccupied and stretched thin with manpower. But their accurate long range Rockets (80-100K) covering all of Israel is more of a deterrent against us than the results of the 2nd Lebanon war. So for now Israel enjoys relative quiet until they don’t and that time can be very soon.

    Problem with most of our politicians and most pundits here is that we think like rational westerners and our enemies don’t. Winning and losing for us is based on a whole different mindset and calculation. I once asked one of my Arab workers during a discussion on the Yom Kippur war why he thought Sadat was a great leader, he replied,” that He successfully crossed the canal and held it.” I said, “He lost over thirty thousand me in doing it” My worker replied, “Didn’t matter he crossed the Canal” in other words in his mid Arab honor was upheld and the cost was bearable.

    Nobody speaks of the most serious achievements of Hamas besides fighting us to a standstill. They threatened Ben Gurion airport and managed to with Obama’s help to close it for almost 48 hours and they managed to hit very close to our most strategic target The nuke reactor in Dimona, not once but almost a dozen times. Israel does not talk about this openly but our other enemies have taken notes.

  14. @ Bear Klein:
    Hey Bear. I see things way different than you.
    Did Hamas get the prisoners back – Not yet!

    Did they get the blockade removed – yes

    Did Israel agree to a seaport – yes

    Do the Gazans in private without Hamas people present realize this plus the third of the population without homes – Yes.

    Is Hamas – Dead in the Water – No

    Is Hamas – Severely hurt – no

    Will Hamas be able to come stronger with weapons- We do no know and that is the big question mark. – for sure!!

    Israel lost in EVERY possible angle. 50 to 70 thousand israelis refuse to go back to their homes in the south for lack of security.
    Hamas has a lot of fight left in them and they achieved everything they wanted. They lost infrastructure, homes and buildings that will be replaced by other arab nations.
    Their weaponry is being replaced as we speak, and understand that there are still plenty of tunnels left between Egypt and Gaza and probably Gaza and Israel.
    And if you think that it is different this time because Egypt will help. Got news for you. Egyptians hate israelis even more than they hate Hamas.

  15. Bear Klein Said:

    Anyone have an idea?

    I have a wonderful idea!!!!!!!!! Remember my Gumbo recipe with bacon ?????? I often use Pastrami chopped in place of Prosciutto or bacon in a recipe. It’s kosher and has a similar taste to bacon or ham.

  16. Bibi containment of Hamas and destroying the tunnels will probably not satisfy the voting public if the current post war mood continues.

    So who is the next Prime Minister?
    Bennett or another Likudnik – Gideon Sar?

    Anyone have an idea?

  17. Bear Klein Said:

    Time will tell if Bibi was right. If Hamas comes back in two years with better weapons and we have to do this again, then this was a mistake.

    Not necessarily. Israel is developing its military, defense and procedural capabilities so as to be able to conduct devastating war with a minimal of casualties. Israel suffered primarily inconvenience and psychological damage but it conserved many lives. These increasing abilities allow Israel to be independent of any deal and rely on their own abilities to “police” the situation in gaza. Gaza has also served as a testing ground for the loss/benefit of these type of actions. It seems obvious that Israel unilaterally restricted its own capabilities and only in the last phase began to show what it could do. it was an exercise in control as Israels self imposed restraint allowed it to cause lasting damage which will not be quickly forgotten when gazans were given a glimpse in the final days of what could await their intransigence. i would have ot see what transpires before judging the decisions made and then this judgement must be colored by the very important question that as Israel does not want gaza then who would rule gaza in hamas place?
    there can even be something to be gained in a replay 2 years from now, or later, after the internationals have sunk big money into their pets. a rapid destruction of their investments might cause their last rethink. I know I would like to see their face slapped. By then Israel will probably be even better at causing great damage, with little loss and done legally within the GC.

  18. Ted Belman Said:

    It is immaterial how many Gazans were killed, they’ll grow back, or how many buildings were destroyed, the West will replace them, or how many rockets they expended. What matters is, have they lost control of Gaza. They live for resistance. No resistance, no Hamas.

    I disagree, I believe there will be long term damage to Hamas ability to retain its constituency due to number of gazans killed and infrastructure destroyed. It also resulted in diplomatic gains demonstrating the human shields deception policies of Hamas reducing further their credibility. They have suffered great losses with no gains as Israel has lifted the blockade many times if they play nice. Hams got less than what they could have had at the beginning as much was already in place in Gaza when they took over from PA. I think that hams frantic last minute salvos was to get a better deal and now they have nothing to show for the suffering of all the years. they have agreed to non belligerence in the short term and it will be likely in the long term. If not they will be even decimated further and the euros, etc will lose more billions in re development aid. They have given up their only raison d’etre: non belligerence(resistance).
    One question I have is whether Israel can prevent fund inflows from Iran.

  19. Max Said:

    There is no “If about Hamas coming back , the “if” is if Israel can do this again,if Israel will survive the next one .

    I have no doubt in Israels ability to “survive” the next one. Israel’s war was focused on its objectives and losses were minimal. Also, its technological improvements in targeting and coordination of intelligence to the ground have improved greatly. It simply ratcheted up to the next level and hamas capitulated. Not ratcheting up to that level earlier allowed Israel to continue to conduct a campaign of damage to infrastructure and population. allowing hamas to keep firing with little results allowed Israel to ratchet up to the next level with little international opposition. Israel is demonstrating a greater ability in promulgating war under greater restrictions. Israel will gain diplomatic advantages in the way it conducted this war.

  20. Max Said:

    There is no “If about Hamas coming back , the “if” is if Israel can do this again,if Israel will survive the next one . The more chances the enemy get the more likely they are to succeed

    ON the contrary, israel wrought great damage which was only limited by its own choice demonstrating Israels increased ability to cause damage with minimal loss. This war served as a test of control. Hamas is decimated, it is worse than last time, the same with hezbullah in 2006 which is why they have been reticent to retry. Israel was inconvenienced and lost some money but its casualties and infrastructure damage were low. Hamas was merely firing off its rockets in a swan song to get a better deal out of Egypt and the PA.

    This is what happened the last time and the time before. It didn’t work those times either.

    Actually it did work last time up until Israel cleared the west bank of hamas which benefited Abbas. It also worked to reduce hamas rocket stockpile and its years long tunnel venture. it also wrought great psychological damage on the civilian population, their support base, which I believe we will see its effects in the future. Hamas got what it could have had years ago and what Israel gives it every time they play nice, lifting the blockade. Hamas is desperate to save face, but that is all they have. Now their funding both from the Gulf and the Internationals is limited. Rhetoric and face is what these movements thrive on but it only has value in regards to their constituencies.

  21. Max Said:

    Bear Klein Said: That is the significant change. Whether it will be enough is the question.
    Max said to Bear:
    In the grammar book of terrorism it is not a question. You are naive. There are as many loopholes in that as there are Egyptian Jihadists. That deal is no good unless Israel controls the Philadelphi Route

    Actually Max, it is you who is naiive. bear is correct, the Egyptian, and Saudi. cooperation is indeed the major change as the weak link has been through and under the Egyptian border. The efficacy of this “deal” has nothing to dd with Israeli non control of the philadelphi corridor. Israel has demonstrated through the years that it does not want to control the corridor. Israel had ample opportunity to take that unilateral decision prior. The deal is good or bad according to the state of affairs that preceded it and whether the price of war paid has yet returned enough benefit. Ongoing cooperation with Egypt and its patron Saudi is a major component of this deal and future developments. the “deal” is less important than this cooperation as Israel only has itself to rely on and a “deal” means nothing without Israel’s ability to take action.

  22. Replacing Hamas with Abbas is exactly what the foolish government of Israel should be working to avoid, unless the Jews of Israel, for some perverse reason, could with to strengthen a permanently alien and hostile Palestinian governing body which would act as a gigantic system of hydraulic brakes against any future reclamation of Shomron and Yehuda by and for the future of the Jewish nation.

    As for any and all loudly-proclaimed promises by the government of the United States to protect the interests of Israel, you should all be smart enough to treat that as an example of the way Obama and Kerry make promises to the Ukrainians, the Iraqis, the Afghans, and anyone else amongst whom they find reason to involve themselves in foreign affairs in distant places, and always on a basis of nothing more then temporary expediency. Because the USA in fact has no permanent and stable foreign policy.

    And remember too that the Jews are despised the most by goyim upon whom Jews allow themselves to fall into a state of dependency.

    Arnold Harris
    Mount Horeb WI

  23. Bear Klein Said:

    That is the significant change. Whether it will be enough is the question.

    In the grammar book of terrorism it is not a question.

    You are naive. There are as many loopholes in that as there are Egyptian Jihadists.

    That deal is no good unless Israel controls the Philadelphi Route

  24. @ Max: Egypt is now an active partner in trying to keep out weapons from Gaza. That is the significant change. Whether it will be enough is the question. Yes they will try.

  25. Bear Klein Said:

    Will Hamas be able to come stronger with weapons- We do no know and that is the big question mark.

    How is that a question mark? This situation has been repeated several times. It has never been a question mark before, why did it become one now?

  26. Bear Klein Said:

    If Hamas comes back in two years with better weapons and we have to do this again, then this was a mistake.

    There is no “If about Hamas coming back , the “if” is if Israel can do this again,if Israel will survive the next one .
    The more chances the enemy get the more likely they are to succeed

    This is what happened the last time and the time before. It didn’t work those times either.

  27. Actual Ted, it is material to the Gazans how many are dead or whose homes are destroyed. This has an impact on how Hamas is seen in the eyes of the Gazans.

    Did got Hamas get the prisoners back – No –

    Did they get the blockade removed – No

    Did Israel agree to a seaport – No

    Do the Gazans in private without Hamas people present realize this plus the third of the population without homes – Yes.

    Is Hamas – Dead in the Water – No

    Is Hamas – Severely hurt – Yes

    Will Hamas be able to come stronger with weapons- We do no know and that is the big question mark.

  28. @ Bear Klein:It is immaterial how many Gazans were killed, they’ll grow back, or how many buildings were destroyed, the West will replace them, or how many rockets they expended. What matters is, have they lost control of Gaza. They live for resistance. No resistance, no Hamas.

  29. Hamas achieved a third of Gazans homeless, About 1000 dead jihadis, tunnels destroyed, rocket factories destroyed. IDF achieved the goals the government set. Where these goals enough to guarantee quiet in the future (stated goal)? That remains to be seen. Where these the correct goals. Most of us wanted Hamas destroyed.

    Bibi and Yaalon shied away of the goals of Lieberman and Bennett which were for capturing Gaza.

    Bibi rejected these goals because the IDF projected 100s of dead IDF soldiers, responsibility for: the lives of 1.7 million Gazans, rebuilding Gaza, killing 10,000 plus Gazans, international repercussions (including fraying peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan).

    Time will tell if Bibi was right. If Hamas comes back in two years with better weapons and we have to do this again, then this was a mistake. On the other hand if Hamas loses power in Gaza and can not rearm then this will have been the correct solution.