Peloni: Reality just changed with this press conference, and this more than anything else is the result of the Trump-Bibi summit. Trump’s proposal, in so much as he has detailed it, is quite revolutionary, to say the least. It is as sharp of a break with the old TSS paradigm as could be suggested, and perhaps this is one of the more definite aspects of what he has proposed. Perhaps too, it is intended to be a point of leverage to demonstrate to the moderate Sunnis nations that their endeavors to hold fast to the past is out of step with reality. But the real details of the proposal remain uncertain at this point, as the Trump-Bibi presser raised as many questions, if not more, than were answered during the question and answer session. Of course, I remain opposed to the US putting troops on the ground in Israel in any capacity, just as I am opposed to the US, rather than Israel, becoming the long term guarantor of Israel’s security interest in Gaza, or that the US rather than Israel should “own” Gaza. Still, as Daniel Greenfield suggests, it might be well advised to wait for more specific policy details before offering more specific responses. What is clear is that Trump continues to be unflinching in his demand to remove the Pals from Gaza. This at a minimum should be seen to be a definite policy position, and is one which I certainly do support.
By
| Feb 4, 2025Click on Photo for Video
New in PJ Media:
We are living at a truly momentous time in history. Donald Trump illustrated that yet again on Tuesday evening during his press conference with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. “You have to learn from history,” Trump declared and proceeded to upend the political order that has prevailed in the Middle East for decades. It is a multiply failed order and new approaches are very, very long overdue, but no one has dared to question it and suggest new solutions. Until now.
The most momentous announcement of this most momentous of press conferences was Trump’s declaration that Hamas would not be permitted to regain control of Gaza and that, in fact, the U.S. “will take over the Gaza Strip… we will own it.” He also reiterated his insistence that 1.7 million Palestinians would be relocated to Egypt and Jordan, explaining several times that this was necessary because the failed policies of the past should not and must not be applied yet again.
Hamas, Trump said, had ruled Gaza for years and offered no options for the Palestinian people beyond bloodshed and death. He sketched out a vision of a restored Gaza that would be an international area, populated not just by Palestinian Arabs but by people from all over the world who would be able to enjoy its renaissance as the “Riviera of the Middle East.”
When asked if this meant that he was rejecting the possibility of a “two-state solution,” Trump said that he wasn’t addressing that at all, but merely saying that the old policies of the past had failed and that new solutions needed to be tried. He and Netanyahu also both expressed confidence that Saudi Arabia would soon normalize relations with Israel, which would have a seismic effect upon the Muslim Middle East, as it has shown unremitting hostility to Israel ever since the founding of the modern Jewish state in 1948.
Trump’s plan may sound crazy, and the establishment media and establishment policy analysts are already purporting to explain just how crazy it is. But in reality, the crazy plan is the one that has been in place since the signing of the Oslo Accords in 1993 and which has remained the view of the conflict that virtually everyone has taken for granted for over three decades now.
The idea of the Oslo Accords was that Israel would relinquish sovereignty over certain areas of Judea and Samaria (that is, the West Bank, as the Jordanian government renamed the region in 1950 in order to obscure its ancient ties to the Jewish people), as well as of Gaza, and that the Palestinian Authority would be established to govern those territories. Israel and the Palestinian Authority would then work with the Palestinians toward the establishment of a fully independent Palestinian state. The two states would then, as the rhetoric of a thousand establishment politicians has affirmed since then, live side by side in peace.
There is more. Read the rest here.
@Edgar
You are welcome.
I remember reading a book (it was a very long time ago, someone’s autobiography?) where a Jewish man (not a passerby but someone fairly important, maybe the author himself) had to meet Truman and Truman’s wife wouldn’t let the Jew in, so that Truman and the Jew had to conduct their appointment on the sidewalk.
READER-
Thank you I missed that, it was lost in the mists of my memory .
FDR was always a liar and a proven Anti-Semite. Look at the SS St Louis and more. Truman boasted that he never let a Jew part his doorstep, and that his wife couldn’t bear them.
A lousy bunch of swine the US governments up to and even after the war until Reagan, who had limited power to aid Israel, and didn’t do much-except “pull down that wall”..
We’ve had to wait until Trump-time. But, TG he’s here again to do what all the vicious Democratic Party’s malice prevented him from doing the first time.
Even though the major hitters were JEWS, but definitely JINOS.
@Edgar
King Saud was also very adamant on the issue 80 years ago when he talked to FDR (the quotations and references below are from The Failure To Rescue (1977) by Herbert Druks, Ph.D., pp.96-98 I posted a long comment about the book here last night):
On January 23 Dr. [Rabbi] Wise had a conversation with the President,
In reality, FDR was extremely skeptical about the Jewish chances in Palestine because of the sheer number of Arabs “…in and around Palestine and he thought that “in the long run these numbers would win out.””
So, what has changed since then other than the miraculous success of the Jewish State which the “world community” wishes to destroy and keeps tirelessly working to achieve this goal?
I don’t understand why someone keeps giving Felix “dislikes” when he is right.
I’ve just finished reading The Failure To Rescue (1977) by Herbert Druks, Ph.D.
It was recommended to me on this website by Michael.
The book is small (108 pages including the table of contents, bibliography, the index, and lists of references to documents and interviews after each chapter ) but intense.
It describes how Great Britain and the US did everything they could to thwart the rescue of the European Jews and how the Jewish organizations and the Jews with some influence were never able to get together (actually fighting each other) and form a common opinion about the fate of the Jews of Europe and about the Jewish National Home in then Palestine to enable the rescue.
The book’s conclusion (the very end of it):
I think that nothing has changed since then, except, thank God, we now have the actual state with millions of Jews in it, however, this phenomenon remains underappreciated not only by the Western (mostly American) Jews but even by this state’s government and the heads of its military.
Professor Druks reiterated in his book these ideas [emphasis mine]:
Personally, I think that the lesson was not learned by the majority of the Jewish people, unfortunately.
Peloni
“Fortunately enough, the Saudi’s will find that Trump and Bibi are not the putzes which George W demonstrated himself to be. As Bibi just stated, MBS can create a Pal state from his own lands if he wants to do so, which he doesn’t. ”
It is Netanyahu who is the “putz”
Once again Israel is the putz of America
We have in reality the neverending face of world Antisemitism as it takes new forms with the content the same.
American Imperialism is the putz of nobody
It along with Britain is the main culprit in the face of Antisemitism
And it is so here in the welcome by israpundit to this “Deal “
READER-
Saudi Arabia has been saying the same thing since the beginning. I recall Feisal, that dog saying “I will not be happy until I can unroll my prayer carpet in the Al Aksa Mosque in Jerusalem.
And that was around 1970.,,,,55 yers ago. It was printed in the Jerusalem Post which I used to have posted to me.
@Reader
I disagree.
Israel currently already has what it NEEDS from normalization, just as do the Saudi’s. In both cases, the current status quo between these two nations is about meeting the respective immediate national interests on both sides, which have already been met. Furthermore, if the Saudi’s were sincere about pursuing the TSS, there would be no further movement on the issue of normalization.
Going forward into the future is where any real benefits of formal normalization will be realized by anyone. Without it, the IMEC will not be realized, just as it is true that with the creation of an Islamist Pal state, the IMEC will be a dead issue. Notably, with the “Drill Baby Drill” policy back in control of the US, the Saudi’s have a great deal to lose in the future if the IMEC is not formalized and so too if there was any likelihood of an Islamist Pal state being created. This is the prospect facing KSA(kingdom of Saudi Arabia), and whereas both Israel and KSA, among many other nations, will benefit from the implementation of the IMEC, unlike Israel which has steady and significant revenue streams without gas revenues, failure to implement the IMEC will correspond to a national tragedy in KSA as its gas production becomes a less and less reliable revenue stream over time. And again, for the IMEC to materialize, it requires that the KSA formalize its already well established ties with Israel. and MBS knows this to be the case. Hence, MBS is trying to set the best price possible for its cooperation, which is why it is still involving itself in promoting the Dead Duck topic of the TSS.
Fortunately enough, the Saudi’s will find that Trump and Bibi are not the putzes which George W demonstrated himself to be. As Bibi just stated, MBS can create a Pal state from his own lands if he wants to do so, which he doesn’t.
Ignoring the later half of this question which I have already noted is not relevant to anyone, KSA will gain some of what they want, but certainly not all of it, and hopefully this will not include any nuclear program nor the more advanced military hardware, but we will see.
@peloni
As far as normalization, it is ISRAEL who needs it more than the Arabs, and the agreement will not be worth the paper it would be written on (check the Quran).
The Saudis have 3 conditions for the normalization with Israel to happen:
1) modern weapons from the US (very profitable for the US);
2) American help with development of Saudi Arabia’s “peaceful”
nuclear program to help the Saudis defend themselves against
Iran (said in the same breath) – (also very profitable for the US);
3) creation of the Palestinian state (the 24th Arab state in the ME) –
very bad and possibly lethal for israel.
Recently, (before Trump’s announcement), the Saudis agreed
to replace the outright demand for the Pal. state with a
euphemistic “Israel’s agreeing to start creating a path toward
the two-state solution” (an imperfect quote).
I have posted my previous 3-4 comments to show that my prediction of Trump’s announcement provoking this (very predictable) reaction of rage and demands for the TSFS from the “world community” as well as from the Arabs was correct.
To assume that the angry reaction of the Saudis against resettling Gazans and their demands for the TSFS are merely a negotiation trick is to assume that to the Saudis the interests of the infidel Jews who are “illegally” occupying Dar al Islam and are attempting to diminish its territory by kicking the Arabs out of Gaza are more precious than the interests of the Muslim Arabs and Islam as a religion.
Last but not least – will it be good for Israel if Saudi Arabia gets the latest weapons and nukes (with which it could possibly threaten Israel) and Israel PAYS FOR IT by giving away most of J&S, the whole of Gaza, some of the Negev, and by cuttting itself at the waist with a tunnel connecting the West Bank and Gaza?
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/revealed-trumps-deal-century-map-future-palestine-israel?fbclid=IwAR0FFI_hRI3w-5mtAYLoMhnYqobHJvyogxLIQskUch2LNGJqd1GWAg6y9D8
There is an obvious collision
On the one hand Saudi Arabia puts forward it’s position which is a two state solution which will lead to the end of Israel
Reader to his credit digs out the Saudi words to this effect
Peloni backed by his minions on Israpundit says do not believe the data (the words of the Saudis.
Peloni introduces his red herring, the Saudis are really negotiating.
Really they are not a danger. They want the same as us.
As for me I back the data every time.
@Reader
The Saudi statement is a negotiating ploy. In fact the Saudis are very good negotiators. They place a high price on things that they neither want nor need nor honestly desire, so that they can get as much as possible when they finally accept they are not getting it. And they will not get the Pal state, but neither do they want it. What they want is their own nuclear program and access to the latest US military hardware, which is why they are demanding the Pal State, again, which they neither want nor will succeed in obtaining.
Everything is going like clockwork.
@Adam D
No, you don’t.
I refuse to spell it out every time I write about it, you are the only one who has ever complained about it, now you (and most other people here) know what these acronyms (not “private codes”) mean.
@fquigley
The Golden Words!
This needs to be posted on the walls all over Israel (at least).
Unfortunately, “the greatest optimists in the world” will refuse (in the majority) to believe it.
@Reader. Thanks for your explanation. I still think you should never use private codes when writing on a public forum whose readers and commentators might not be familiar with it. Do I have your promise to stop doing this?
Reader writes
“BTW, I watched an interview with Samantha Power on YouTube years ago.
She wanted to have the whole of Israel occupied by foreign peacekeeping (or military, I don’t remember) forces, I doubt that she is unique in having this desire.
Trump knows that all these countries will refuse to take the refugees and then the “ONLY road to peace” will be the TSFS which has been the main goal of American ME policy for decades.
Trump is proposing the removal or resettlement of Gazan population ON PURPOSE to provoke the refusals and the outrage of the Arab countries and to make the TSFS the ONLY option.
Then, if Israel refuses the TSFS, the continuation of the ME conflict will be blamed solely on Israel, as usual. ”
End quote from Reader
Not just a likely scenario but a certain one and we already see it playing out.
And what is the lynchpin in all of these rapid events being played out at breakneck speed. The tempo increases and soon Trump unable to carry it out will move on to his other “interests ”
It is the leadership of Peloni and Belman played out here on this blog tied so closely to Trump as a saviour to the Jews he Peloni was unable to break the cords. Peloni is clearly trying to face two opposing directions simultaneously.
So a whole layer on israpundit make excuses for Trump and large American power interests, or maintain full devotion to, even though all the data points in the opposite direction.
Leading these flunkies on Israpundit is of course Netanyahu (and Glick now as well) as Netanyahu will be more and more viewed as a devil at the right hand of Trump, who is now a marauder on a world scale.
Jews need to be aware they’re being set up…
What to do? Correct strategy and tactics by the IDF can only come from the data and this time no hiding of the historical data of Leninist and especially Trotskyist leadership in defeating Antisemitism in the Ukrainian Pogroms of 1919 to 1921 … The real historical precedent to October 7.
I’ve just listened to an interview on YouTube with an Iranian professor, and he said that in his opinion the US will never occupy Gaza and no one will relocate the Gazans – Trump is just saying this in order to placate Israelis so they keep the ceasefire going.
Could this bullying with tariffs, threats, etc. backfire eventually?
People don’t like being bullied and humiliated.
They might submit or negotiate now but they also might decide to do something in order not to let this sort of thing happen again.
This sort of behavior resembles someone else’s who was a very unpleasant (to put it mildly) individual.
@Adam D
TSFS = Two-State Final Solution
I only use two – TSFS and PTB (Powers That Be)
To find out how Trump operates and thinks, read ‘The Art of the Deal’; everything you need to know, you will find there.
Reader, I have to ask you again,–what is a TSPS? again I ask you not to use in-caps initials instead of words unless you are sure that all your readers will know what your initials mean. Please, don’t use private codes if some of your readers might not know your codes.
Trump will also drop his threat to eize tha Panama by force in return for Panama Cancelling all contracts withChinese firms connected with shipping to and from the Canal and replacing them with U.S. companies. He willprobably drop his threat to seize Greenlandfrom Denmaek by force in return for unrestricted access by U.S. companies (mining, fishing, manufacturing, etc.) to Greenland. Tarriff-free of course.
199 people interpret Trump’s words 100 different ways , with NO consensus.
It’s a very common American expression “I own you.”, when one considers he has bested an antagonist, say ib a debate, or contest.
I see this expression at least 2-3 times a day on one blog alone, during differences of opinion.
THIS is the way Trump meant it, not literally .H ow could the US based on it’s Constitution, walk in and announce it owns land and people.??? “own”
Trump’s modus operandi is to make “outrageous” threats that will shock “main stream MSM, Un-orinted opinion, and DP opinionin the US, and then allow “moderate” advisors to persuade him to “modifiy” his proposal into something that American and the “international community” can live with. Once he does that, the adversary, in this case Hamas and Iran, will then accept or at least acquiesce to his more “moderate” follow-up proposal. It is the way Trump has always operated since he got into politics.Perhaps an adaptation of how he used to do business in the New York real estate market.
One possible “moderate” revision of his current “resettle them all ” proposal may be to demand that Hamas surrender al of their remaining gunmen and hand over all their remaining weapons to the IDF, allow the IDF to occupy all of the Strip, and assist the IDF to locate and blow up all the remaining tunnels. After that, allow the iDF to occupy the Strip for a time to make sure there are no Hams, Ilamic Jihad or Fatah “startups.” At least my hope is that Trump will make a “moderate” follow-up proposal along these lines. The purpose of an “outrageous” Trump proposal that will appear very menacing to the enemy and his sympathetic “kibbitzers,” such the UN, the DP in the United States, etc. Then they will all be inclined to accept his more “moderate” follow-up proposaa. It is a characteristic Trump ploy. Let’s hope it works.
The only way for Israel to resist the TSFS is to realize that those who promote it are CON MEN who play a CON GAME in order to eventually achieve the destruction of Israel:
“con game: A swindle in which the mark, or victim, is defrauded after his or her trust has been won.”
https://www.wordnik.com/words/con%20game
In a really sophisticated con everything is perfectly legal, and the victim will lose because of any of the following: his gullibility, stupidity, naivete, vanity, ignorance, thirst for power or money, etc., fill in the blanks, which the con man knows how to play on to achieve his desired goal.
Everyone seems to have forgotten that very, very recently, before Trump’s inauguration, Trump and Biden BOTH urged Israel to sign Gaza ceasefire deal.
What the US really plans for Israel (no matter who is at the helm of the US government):
https://www.meforum.org/middle-east-quarterly/henry-kissinger-to-iraq-in-1975-we-can-reduce
The proposal of Gaza becoming American property is designed to stop Israel from having any access to Gaza and to enable the creation of the 24th Arab state in Judea and Samaria, Gaza, and the Negev.
The US will do anything and everything, by any means, to achieve the TSFS in Judea & Samaria, Gaza, and the Negev:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/revealed-trumps-deal-century-map-future-palestine-israel?fbclid=IwAR0FFI_hRI3w-5mtAYLoMhnYqobHJvyogxLIQskUch2LNGJqd1GWAg6y9D8
BTW, I watched an interview with Samantha Power on YouTube years ago.
She wanted to have the whole of Israel occupied by foreign peacekeeping (or military, I don’t remember) forces, I doubt that she is unique in having this desire.
Trump knows that all these countries will refuse to take the refugees and then the “ONLY road to peace” will be the TSFS which has been the main goal of American ME policy for decades.
Trump is proposing the removal or resettlement of Gazan population ON PURPOSE to provoke the refusals and the outrage of the Arab countries and to make the TSFS the ONLY option.
Then, if Israel refuses the TSFS, the continuation of the ME conflict will be blamed solely on Israel, as usual.
The only reason these people are called “Palestinian refugees” is because they are being used as a battering ram against the Jewish State.
These people don’t want a better life, THEY WANT TO KILL JEWS!
To hell with Peloni, with Greenfield, with Spencer, and with anyone else who will sell out. Peloni is part and parcel to this selling out
Netanyahu must be told Gaza is Jewish, belongs to Israel.
Trump must clear off if his aim is to own Gaza. He must be told Gaza belongs to Israel and never to America.
Netanyahu must be removed and Trotskyist leadership formed in power to never sell the birthright of Jews to Israel.
I hope that Israel and the Trump admnistration will unapologetically remind the world that Iran’s proxy, Hamas, declared war on Israel October 7, 2023. Hamas terrorists slaughtered 1200 Israelis and took 250 hostages who they brutalized with unimaginable savagery. Gaza is now the spoils of the October 7th attack on Israeli civilians, which was the latest attack on Israel that began the day Israel was recognized as an independent state. History reminds us that on that day, May 14, 1948, five Arab nations attacked Israel. The two-state solution was a bad idea from the beginning, and now it is finally dead––October 7th killed it.
Israel is not interested in occupying Gaza. Israel wants peace, but is surrounded by Muslim neighbors who will never stop attacking her because they are doctrinally committed to Israel’s extinction. President Trump is a builder, a visionary with a proposal that shocked the world yesterday. Having the United States take over Gaza will provide stability to the region in ways previously unattainable. The Palestinians who lived in Gaza will be relocated to Jordan and Egypt. The Arab nations joining the Abraham Accords will invest in the land, and Gaza will become an international city instead of a terrorist haven and launching pad for terror attacks against the sovereign Jewish State of Israel. It is an extraordinary proposal!
I am so glad that I watched the announcement live, because the hysterical critics are already busy at work calling it nation-building and a land grab. The message is clear––NEVER FORGET––Gaza is the spoils of war!