The Hassidic Belz community, one of the largest Hassidic courts in the country, is threatening to leave Israel if the proposed military draft law is passed by the Knesset, Maariv reports.
THEY SHOULD GO.
THEY CAN STUDY IN NEW YORK AS WELL AS IN ISRAEL.
IF THEY ARE NOT CONTRIBUTING TO OUR SOCIETY BY JOINING THE ARMY (OR DOING NATIONAL SERVICE) AND PAYING TAXES, WHO NEEDS THEM.
honeybee Said:
Mark Regev.
It ain’t us it’s them. We want to give them our Land, our historic capital but those baddies keep trying to kill us, what can we do??? Kerry and Obama are our good buddies and we love them both like brothers but those baddies won’t give up their obsession with killing us Jews.
What stupid Crapolla. All he did was to dig us a deeper hole to be buried in if and when the Arabs say they will do what BB demands of them.
@ honeybee:
Silent auction?
🙂
@ yamit82:
Going to tuck up now,painful day lots of work need to medicate. There goes my value but I made a killer peach cobbler. You take care, thanks for the conversation needed a distraction.
@ yamit82:
I am worth my price in rubies and diamonds. Give me your address and I will send samples. Better be quick the bids are coming in fast.
Listening to Mark Rhave on Fox.
r@ yamit82:
honeybee Said:
What abilities might they be?
How much do-ya think they’re worth?
Will require samples first, before entering a bid.
@ yamit82:
We have the means to do it but not the will. Of course I would be broke and would have to sell my abilities to the highest bidder!!!
honeybee Said:
The ruble ain’t worth all that much but you can destroy the Russian economy by dropping the price of oil in half. Matter of fact it would destroy Iran’s and the Saudi economies as well.
@ yamit82:
Can the USA destroy the ruble by flooding the market with cheap oil?
@ yamit82:
Good reply
@ Ted Belman:
CuriousAmerican Said:
That would make them Israelites but not Jews. A Jew is a descendent of those primarily from the tribe of Judah and have accepted the yoke of heaven meaning they accept the revelation of Sinai and are committed to observing the commandments G-d transmitted through Moses. Since anyone can become a Jew through proper conversion there is nothing bigoted about Halachic definition of who is a Jew any more than christianity requires belief in yeshu and resurrection. In Judaism tribal affiliation and identification were for legal reasons mostly concerning inheritance. Defining a Jew solely on race (gentics) without the observance, belief and mitzvot is racist.
Our traditions says when the whole Jewish nation stood at Sinai (some 3 million) and said na’aseh v’nishma everyone accepted the yoke of heaven including all non Hebrews who left Egypt with the Hebrew Slaves in the Exodus. Essentially they were converted by their declaration and the covenant applied to them as well as to the Hebrews.
The drama of the events at Mount Sinai is well known:
It was the third day, in the morning, that there was thunder and lightning. A heavy cloud was on the mountain and there was a very loud sound of the shofar. All the people in the camp trembled. Moses brought the people toward God out of the camp. They stood at the foot of the mountain. The entire Mount Sinai was enveloped with smoke, for God had descended upon it in fire. Its smoke rose like the smoke of a furnace and the entire mountain trembled violently … (Exodus 19:16-18)
God begins to give the Ten Commandments, but the Jews panic and beg Moses to ascend the mountain and accept the teachings on their behalf.
Moses came and told the people all the words of God. The people responded with one voice and said, ‘All the words that God has spoken, we will do.’ Moses wrote down all the words of God. He arose early in the morning and built an altar beneath the mountain, and also twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel. He sent youths of the Sons of Israel and they offered burnt-offerings, and sacrificed oxen as peace offerings to God. Moses … then took the Book of the Covenant and read it in the ears of the people. They said, ‘All that God has spoken, we will do and we will hear.’ (Exodus 24:3-7)
CuriousAmerican Said:
I never said that and you are attributing words and thoughts I never said. What I did say is something quite the opposite and like always you christian missionaries omit context when you quote Jews and Jewish sources. It’s a gross error to allow Hitler to determine who is a Jew and who isn’t. He murdered many innocents Jew and non Jew for many reasons.
CuriousAmerican Said:
1,000 Missionaries Seek Phony Conversion Certificates to Enter Israel Under Law of Return
@ CuriousAmerican:
I espeakie Tex/Mex.
@ CuriousAmerican:
I am correct Chico, you are a jerk!!!!!!!!! The only things I aim at Yamit82 [notice I always use his full name] are besos and ambarassos.
@ Ted Belman:
Your a lawyer, you know “playing both side against the middle” never works
@ the phoenix:
Just finish today. The floors are gleaming
@ the phoenix:
Smarty mouth No se hace un barboso
1
@ yamit82:
Thanks Yamit. Very informative.
CA’s contribution to this thread is also very informative.
Have you been to Little Odessa in Brighton Beach in Brooklyn. A very disproportionally large percentage of them are Jewish. I am sure they would be welcome. I have no problem with them.
Ach! Purity of blood! Blutreinheit! You want a Goyimrein Israel, Ja?
And you call me the bigot?!
Frum or not, many of those Ukrainian Jews are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, even if only their father was Jewish. By Genesis, they are descendents of Jacob. The Nazis considered them Jewish enough to be killed, but you do not consider them Jewish enough to live.
And you call me the bigot?!
I am sure you can. Your information will be produced from a obscure text taken from the secret PROTOCALS OF THE ELDERS OF EVANGELICALS.
And you call me the bigot?!
CuriousAmerican Said:
Not in the least, or no more than any other group.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Why don’t you invite them into your home and country?
Israel’s door have been wide open to any Jew and certainly from the FSR, about a million have taken advantage of our offer and considerable help in leaving FSR including the Ukraine. Many have not taken advantage of our offer and hospitality. In doing so they for their own reasons preferred to stay among the antisemites and Nazi Ukrainians. That was and still is their choice. Sometimes bad choices have consequences. We have already done our part for them and no need to endanger another Jew for these people.
There is a difference between Jews who are trapped by circumstances and have no freedom of choice and are endangered and those like the Ukrainian (Jews?) A Jew by any definition is not my choice or opinion. I can call myself anything I want but it does not necessarily make me be what I declare. Very few real Jews remain in the Ukraine and FSR. Firstly our primary obligations as Jews is to other Jews not declaritive ones with no connection whatsoever with Jews or Judaism.
Israel in the past has absorbed almost a half million non Jewish Slavs who came into Israel on forged documents and or has a single grandparent as their claim to Jewish rights in Israel and even most such claims were found to be bogus. Most of them are as antisemitic as those in the Ukraine and Russia historically and those espousing openly Nazi sympathies in Israel are some of those same Ukrainians brought here to a larger than lesser extent by christian missionary groups.
The Jews in Babylon who chose not to return mostly assimilated and disappeared from history. The slaves in Egypt who refused to leave died with their non Hebrew Egyptians. The Jews of Europe mostly rejected Zionism of any stripe and refused to leave Europe when there was an opportunity and they mostly perished.
Today no Jew anywhere has an excuse for not coming to Israel and if they chose for their own reasons not to it’s their choice and any adverse consequences due to their choices are theirs alone.
Our obligations to other Jews are to those in physical jeopardy through no fault of their own. Our ‘laws of return’, based on the Jewish definition of Hitlers Nirenberg Laws should be changed to one closer to Halacha. We don’t need another half million antisemitic non Jewish Slavs in Israel; Although it is a missionary objective to infest as many as possible in Israel. I can back up every word I write on this subject if you want to challenge me.
Google Translate recommends this:
Vergüenzas QUE no se hace un baboso. No simpáticos.
THAT a drooling embarrassments is made. No sympathetic.
Honey bee is using an idiom. Literally, Don’t make drool over yourself or a drolling embarrasment
The problem is: Because she writes as she speaks – without clarifying prononouns or commas – it can be hard to tell if she is attacking me or Yamit.
Verguensas CA no se hace un barboso. No sympaticos.
[Yamit is? or You are?] Shameful! CA [He is or you are] A drooling embarrasment. [He is or you are] not sympathetic.
Spanish is a devil to translate without proper grammar. When spoken, the tone of voice or inflection will help you. When written …. GRAMMAR IS CRITICAL.
Honeybee is a native speaker, but a horrible writer.
Use los pronombres, Senorita
You better use commas. That is not what you wrote.
I tranlated it differently (my comments are under moderation)
You may speak Spanish well, but you have to use comnas and pronouns when writing it!
Spanish has a lot of implied nouns, verbs, and pronouns. Punctuation is critical.
I translated it that you considered Yamit shameful with his lack of sympathy.
Put it is a translation engine. What you said was it is a drooling embarrassment.
The only thing is: Was it aimed at me or Yamit?!
USE PRONOUNS, Senorita! Written Spanish is a horror without them.
honeybee Said:
Kinda’ depressing …..
🙁
@ honeybee:
Muchas gracias
🙂
@ the phoenix:
Look up the Ukrainian artist Todro Geller you will find him interesting.
[It is]shameful, CA, that he [Yamit] makes such embarrassement. [He, Yamit] has no sympathy.
Honeybee speaks Spanish, but writes it poorly. I am sure she speaks it better than me; but like most native speakers is terrible with grammar and punctuation.
Spanish has a lot of implied pronouns and verbs, so commas are more crucial to understand who is being insulted.
In English, position of words solves that problem. In Spanish, one has to use commas or emphasis.
Honeybee writes as if she is speaking to a Mexicano. I am American; and I NEED THOSE COMMAS!
@ the phoenix:
Don’t any one especially Shumel HaLevi2, SHAME CA DON.T BE A JERK NOT NICE!!!!!
honeybee Said:
Translation please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
( I’m doing some hb training… 🙂 )
@ CuriousAmerican:
Verguensas CA no se hace un barboso. No sympaticos.
So because they do not meet your definition of a Jew, you would let them die.
And you have the gall to call me an anti-Semite?!
Even though I am Christian, I want them to live. You don’t.
Now we see who the real bigot is.
You will be the first to kvetch if they are killed, though.
@ yamit82:
Hope your feeling better today. Have you tried green chili, I find helps with the symptoms of bronchitis. The Ukrainian Jews , American. Jews have had every opportunity to “save themselves” unlike the Falashas. If they did not avail themselves of the opportunity so be it. But then I remember my Grandfather’s family that remained in Poland.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Like hell we should. They made their choices long ago and should be made to pay for them if that’s what it comes down to. Commercial flights are still available and if they can prove they are Jews the State of Israel will afford them automatic citizenship and benefits of a new immigrant including subsidized air fares one way to Israel.
The rest need not apply or seek help from us, which is the vast majority of those 200,000 or so.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/178013#.UxSPc8u9KSN
@ CuriousAmerican:
My Grandfather use to say “when a peasant’s dog has kitten they come for the Jews”.
You and I agree on one thing.
The Ukrainians have consistently associated all Jews with the foreign oppressors who brutalized the Ukrainians, whether Polish Catholic overlords of the 17th century (resulting in the Khmelnytsky massacres by Ukranian Cossacks); or the Tsarist and Bolshevist oppressors (resulting in 19th and 20th century reprisals against the Jews by the Ukranians).
Yes, the Ukranians were brutalized by the Poles, the Tsar, and the Bolsheviks, but the Ukrainians constantly take their anger out on innocent Jews. It is now an embedded part of their culture. They do not hide it.
If things get rough, the Jews will be targeted.
Israel should offer to fly Jews out very fast like they did with the Falashas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioOgriMK9Bc
Ted should let that go video on the post.
The thing is: While most Ukranians may NOT be politically anti-Semitic; neither will they restrain the gangs among them who are violently anti-Semitic. And these gangs are controlling the politics.
I hope PUTIN loses. Putin is a greater threat to Israel than the Ukraine.
But that asise, this stuggle is not as democratic as the Western media portrays it. The Ukrainian gangs are scary.
These are Ukrainian Football Fans
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Columnist/Columnists/2012/6/1/1338581192320/Nazi-flag-at-match-008.jpg
@ ArnoldHarris:
Most the Jews in the Ukraine are no longer Jews either by birth or conviction. The Mushik Ukrainians force the Label on them. 90% are probably intermarried and those who wanted to get out are already out, the rest screw em.
@ the phoenix:
I didn’t say those things hit the link, although I agree with most of it.
Hitler did a job on most of the Torah giants of Europe, destroyed their yeshivot and the Hassidic dynasties. After the war they had to rebuild almost from nothing and they have, and even more than what was. In 25-30 years if trends hold they will be in the majority here and Israel and the only recognizable Jewish community in America. For most it has little to do with serving in the Army but the Army never wanted them in the first place because to accommodate them they would have to reorganize their whole structure, Complete separation of men and women, Glatt kosher food, time for prayers 3 times a day and also some time for Torah study. More time and effort needed to bring them up to a physical level and to train them in military arts and technology, the basics they never learned in their school curricula. They would restrict the freedom of action of military commanders who would have to take into consideration Torah law before giving certain orders.
The stupid lefties who want to draft them all into the IDF don’t realize that when you turn the IDF into a real Jewish army it will spill over into the civilian realm making the country more religious and or religious sensitive. They want to stick it to the religious for populist political gain and if successful they are shooting themselves in the foot. Serving in the IDF will give them the ultimate tool for taking control of the whole country in due time. Those kids are smart applied to mundane affairs hard to tell how it will end but it won’t serve the secular agenda that’s for sure.
Haredi Rabbis are afraid of losing control of their youth by exposing them to secular life outside of their control and they are correct. Since they have their own school systems and Yeshivot there is no reason they should not receive the equiv of what public schools and universities receive from the public funding. In fact they receive much less per student and their teacher earn less than those in the public schools and universities. Many more Haredim work than is reported but they are off the books so the employer and the employee don’t pay their legal taxes. Many of the Haredi women work so their Husbands can study full time. Not easy to choose poverty for a religious ideal. yet they give more to charity than any other group here. They are not perfect but you won’t see anywhere near the criminality you see in the general population most are quite nice people and harmless to anyone else. They dress funny which is stupid custom.
While the Haredim will not man the ideological barricades in support of Keeping all of Y&S, they can justify their positions from scripture ( I don’t agree with them) but their position is reasoned within Halacha. Those who give it away are not the religious of any stripe but the secular Jewish community.
Empty threat. It’s high time they got cut off of mana.
@ CuriousAmerican:
You got that right, american!
@ yamit82:
Yamit,
Your idea is really good. My only, comment regarding your proposal, would be, a follow up of previous posts by Bernard Ross.
It is obvious that they CAN rally up and gather large numbers… Where on earth were they, are they in as far as the Judea Samaria AND Jerusalem issues go…..
it seems that they start to get concerned when the mana from state is about to be cut… 🙁
@ CuriousAmerican:
CA, the leading Jewish rav in Kiev says there about 200,000 Jews in Uktraine, mostly in and around Kiev. And he has warned them to get out of there ASAP. But you must know the ghetto mentality of so many of us Jews by now. Few listen to accurate warnings, and most reqret it later.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
When this started to flare up, I first rooted for the Ukrainians.
I still root for the Ukrainians … but NOW with serious reservations.
While the outed pro-Russian Ukrainian President was a pig, it is clear that the Ukrainians are heavily Neo-Nazi.
Not the majority; but the majority of the muscle.
These guys are seriously nasty.
Most Western media dismiss the Neo-Nazis as a fringe. The truth is they are central.
Yes, the ousted President Yanukovich was a Russian stooge. Good Riddance, but it was the Neo-Nazis which ousted him.
This is great explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV23kxye95w
This is not democracy vs tyranny.
This is Russian tyranny vs Neo Nazi thug tyranny.
I hope Putin loses, but my blinders have been removed. The Right Sektor are genuine fascists.
Even the Washington Post admits this:
This is being ignored in the West.
Putin is a pig, but how do you think the site of such Nazi thugs plays to the Russians?
I AM NOT SAYING THE MAJORITY OF UKRAINIANS ARE FASCIST, BUT THE MUSCLE OF THE UKRAINE IS.
Bandera is a flag! Hey regreso a nos. I shall abuse further with my half-ass Spanish!!!! What games await.
Bite you tongue phoenix, you and your spring cleaning. been at it for day and can hardly move.
Now, if I, the Gentile, said that … I would be banned.
Actually … Arnold Harris is closer to a good idea.
The media is not giving us the full story on the Ukraine.
Yes, the Russians are pigs. But the West Ukrainians are genuinely Neo-Nazis.
We are only getting one side.
Ted should allow this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqlPvK8QtR8
Any Jew who does not flee the Ukraine RIGHT NOW is out of his mind.
Israel should consider an airlift.
This is Stalin vs Hitler all over again.
Our West is painting the Ukrainians as pro-Western. Many are; but their muscle is comings from Neo-Nazis
There is a whole series on this.
PUTIN IS A PIG! But the Western media is playing down the Neo-Nazi aspect in this.
Ted, you should really be following this more. There are roughly 50,000 Jews in the Ukraine.
Actually only Israel National News is the only Western News outlet getting this right.
Putin may be a pig, but the West is backing Neo-Nazis, who boast about being Nazi.
spring cleaning?
🙂
I suggest the following compromise: The Rosh Yeshiva of each school should recognize the top 10% of their Israeli students as exempt from military service and release the rest – allowing them to return after their service is complete. In acknowledgement of the loss of these students during their service, the government should guarantee the yeshivas a temporary stipend to maintain their teaching staff and student services at the current level so that they don’t incur too great a loss of income during the first two years, when the most students would be leaving the yeshiva (there is a large backlog of students right now). After that, the stipend would no longer be required, as a combination of new students and former students returning to study would refill the empty seats and end the budget shortfall.
This would be a win-win-win situation for Israel.
First, it would increase the level of Torah knowledge. The young men who are studying in yeshiva would compete for those few slots in the upper 10% and they would improve their learning dramatically. We would see a flowering of Torah knowledge unlike any other time in modern history.
Can you imagine how serious this study will get when the young men realize that they face national service if they cannot learn at the very top levels? First, we would see a major decline in smoking, drinking and drug use at the yeshivas (come on, admit it, it is a very serious problem right now), and we would see an immediate surge in the number of students demanding more from their teachers. Instead of their rabbis trying to force-feed knowledge, the young men will demand knowledge. Their hunger for Torah will intensify, forcing even the best of their rabbis to increase their knowledge as well.
Second, the army would be forced to recognize the need to understand Jewish law and apply it appropriately within the ranks. The IDF would have to become much more aware of the decisions they make and how those decisions square with Halakha – decisions such as orders of expulsion against Jews, performing tasks not absolutely necessary for the protection of life on Shabbat and holidays, and the integration of men and women into the same units.
Most important, Haredim would receive needed training in the planning, implementation and execution of military operations, including the use of modern weapons, weapons systems, aircraft and naval vessels. These skills are essential. Without this training, the religious sector doesn’t have a chance of succeeding to secure Israel against the mounting international pressure to surrender our holy sites, our land and our heritage to our enemies.
Although many Haredim may think that military training is somehow beneath them or would somehow infect them with unholiness (although it was never beneath our patriarchs, prophets, and sages), they need this training desperately. They may not know it yet, but once they are trained, they will thank HaShem from the center of their souls for the opportunity to participate in the protection of our Holy Land.
Those yeshiva students, above all others, should realize that HaShem is in charge, even when a secular Supreme Court may be making the decisions.
Remember the lesson of Balaam. Even when our enemies try to curse us, they will bless us.
The Mitzvah of Military Service
I suggest the following compromise: The Rosh Yeshiva of each school should recognize the top 10% of their Israeli students as exempt from military service and release the rest – allowing them to return after their service is complete. In acknowledgement of the loss of these students during their service, the government should guarantee the yeshivas a temporary stipend to maintain their teaching staff and student services at the current level so that they don’t incur too great a loss of income during the first two years, when the most students would be leaving the yeshiva (there is a large backlog of students right now). After that, the stipend would no longer be required, as a combination of new students and former students returning to study would refill the empty seats and end the budget shortfall.
This would be a win-win-win situation for Israel.
First, it would increase the level of Torah knowledge. The young men who are studying in yeshiva would compete for those few slots in the upper 10% and they would improve their learning dramatically. We would see a flowering of Torah knowledge unlike any other time in modern history.
Can you imagine how serious this study will get when the young men realize that they face national service if they cannot learn at the very top levels? First, we would see a major decline in smoking, drinking and drug use at the yeshivas (come on, admit it, it is a very serious problem right now), and we would see an immediate surge in the number of students demanding more from their teachers. Instead of their rabbis trying to force-feed knowledge, the young men will demand knowledge. Their hunger for Torah will intensify, forcing even the best of their rabbis to increase their knowledge as well.
Second, the army would be forced to recognize the need to understand Jewish law and apply it appropriately within the ranks. The IDF would have to become much more aware of the decisions they make and how those decisions square with Halakha – decisions such as orders of expulsion against Jews, performing tasks not absolutely necessary for the protection of life on Shabbat and holidays, and the integration of men and women into the same units.
Placing tens of thousands of Haredim into the ranks would be the end of placing men and women into the same units, and the beginning of the IDF admitting it has never treated men and women the same way. Most of the women receive inferior weapons, training and opportunity even when they serve in the same units with men. Perhaps, if women are in separate units from the men, the training and opportunities for women will improve because they will receive equal funding.
Last, and probably most important, Haredim would receive needed training in the planning, implementation and execution of military operations, including the use of modern weapons, weapons systems, aircraft and naval vessels. These skills are essential. Without this training, the religious sector doesn’t have a chance of succeeding to secure Israel against the mounting international pressure to surrender our holy sites, our land and our heritage to our enemies.
Although many Haredim may think that military training is somehow beneath them or would somehow infect them with unholiness (although it was never beneath our patriarchs, prophets, and sages), they need this training desperately. They may not know it yet, but once they are trained, they will thank HaShem from the center of their souls for the opportunity to participate in the protection of our Holy Land.
Those yeshiva students, above all others, should realize that HaShem is in charge, even when a secular Supreme Court may be making the decisions.
Remember the lesson of Balaam. Even when our enemies try to curse us, they will bless us.
@ yamit82:
For a moment I thought you have posted a national geographic. video of the penguins in Antarctica….
another sip of coffee and then I quickly regained my senses…
Hundreds of Thousands at Hareidi Anti-Enlistment Rally
Entrance to Jerusalem is blocked by huge hareidi prayer rally against the law that will punish hareidi men who do not enlist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRMvrxkGCIQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5_pV68KFm4
I’m sure the Bandera worshipers of Western Ukraine would love to have them. Or maybe Iran, if Ukraine didn’t welcome them in a manner they think fitting for their ilk.
But one thing for sure. The time has passed for Israel and the Jewish nation to kiss anyone’s asses for anything whatsoever.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI